Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users Locked

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Henry Richardson
Forum ProPosts: 12,665
Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
9 months ago

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

You can't change the lens on the RX10, but a lot of m4/3 people would be quite happy, I think, even if all they had were the 12-35mm and 35-100mm for their m4/3 camera.

I have read that the zoom-by-wire is poor because turning the zoom ring causes the focal length to change very slowly. Maybe that can be fixed in firmware? Still, this looks to be a very interesting camera. It isn't very small, but I can imagine that for some people this could be enticing. More dof, of course, than FF or APS-C and slightly more than m4/3, but that isn't a big deal for everyone.

I could see that some people might have an m4/3 body to use with a couple of fast single focal length lenses and the RX10 instead of buying the expensive 12-35mm and 35-100mm lenses.

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony RX100 II
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honeyiscool
Contributing MemberPosts: 942Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

If the next G series model, the G7?, has the GX7 sensor and finally adds a headphone jack and perhaps IBIS (not necessary), the RX10 will have zero appeal to me.

As it is, the RX10 is interesting to video shooters, although in typical Sony fashion, they've managed to muck it up in one obvious fashion: no articulating screen.

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s_grins
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,531Gear list
Not for me....n/t
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago
-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

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cgarrard
Forum ProPosts: 14,310Gear list
The screen articulates
In reply to honeyiscool, 9 months ago

honeyiscool wrote:

If the next G series model, the G7?, has the GX7 sensor and finally adds a headphone jack and perhaps IBIS (not necessary), the RX10 will have zero appeal to me.

As it is, the RX10 is interesting to video shooters, although in typical Sony fashion, they've managed to muck it up in one obvious fashion: no articulating screen.

UP and down. The flip and twist style LCD isn't the best solution for everyone, so lets not pretend it is. Some shooters don't even want a flip and twist and prefer the simplicity/purity of a fixed screen. Sony met them in the middle.

So they didn't muck up the design just because they didn't want to pay royalties to use the flip and twist style screen that only maybe half of users would want over the flip up/down type.

Different users, different desires.

We (all of us) never agree 100% on any one style of anything. Thank god.

Carl
http://www.photographic-central.blogspot.com (Gear reviews)
http://www.carlgarrard.blogspot.com/ (Best work compilation)
Also formerly AlphaMountWorld.com (Now off the web)

honeyiscool
Contributing MemberPosts: 942Gear list
Re: The screen articulates
In reply to cgarrard, 9 months ago

cgarrard wrote:

honeyiscool wrote:

If the next G series model, the G7?, has the GX7 sensor and finally adds a headphone jack and perhaps IBIS (not necessary), the RX10 will have zero appeal to me.

As it is, the RX10 is interesting to video shooters, although in typical Sony fashion, they've managed to muck it up in one obvious fashion: no articulating screen.

UP and down. The flip and twist style LCD isn't the best solution for everyone, so lets not pretend it is. Some shooters don't even want a flip and twist and prefer the simplicity/purity of a fixed screen. Sony met them in the middle.

So they didn't muck up the design just because they didn't want to pay royalties to use the flip and twist style screen that only maybe half of users would want over the flip up/down type.

Different users, different desires.

We (all of us) never agree 100% on any one style of anything. Thank god.

Carl
http://www.photographic-central.blogspot.com (Gear reviews)
http://www.carlgarrard.blogspot.com/ (Best work compilation)
Also formerly AlphaMountWorld.com (Now off the web)

They did muck it up, though. A hybrid camera meant for shooting video (as the RX10 obviously is) as well as photo needs to be able to go all the way to 180 degrees, either up or down. Preferably up but the Sony A77 showed that down is also a viable direction.

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agachart
Forum MemberPosts: 94
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to honeyiscool, 9 months ago

honeyiscool wrote:

If the next G series model, the G7?, has the GX7 sensor and finally adds a headphone jack and perhaps IBIS (not necessary), the RX10 will have zero appeal to me.

As it is, the RX10 is interesting to video shooters, although in typical Sony fashion, they've managed to muck it up in one obvious fashion: no articulating screen.

good and i want more 4K video,video raw & clean HDMI 

Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 26,065Gear list
Wishy-washy µ4/3 users, that is.
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

There seems to be a wave of this sort of post going on.  "If you don't really need the µ4/3 you have, you'll likely go to Sony".   Duh.

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...Bob, NYC
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
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Mark Thornton
Senior MemberPosts: 2,622Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

G6 + 14-140 f3.5/5.6 is a much closer equivalent, and should be less than $1200. The RX10 lens is equivalent to 12-100mm f4 on m4/3.

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MAubrey
Senior MemberPosts: 1,480Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

The lens on the RX100 already resolves quite poorly according to DxO. With a lens even more complicated, I would imagine that this will do even worse.

No thanks.

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--Mike

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JCB123
Senior MemberPosts: 1,125Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

You can't change the lens on the RX10, but a lot of m4/3 people would be quite happy, I think, even if all they had were the 12-35mm and 35-100mm for their m4/3 camera.

I have read that the zoom-by-wire is poor because turning the zoom ring causes the focal length to change very slowly. Maybe that can be fixed in firmware? Still, this looks to be a very interesting camera. It isn't very small, but I can imagine that for some people this could be enticing. More dof, of course, than FF or APS-C and slightly more than m4/3, but that isn't a big deal for everyone.

I could see that some people might have an m4/3 body to use with a couple of fast single focal length lenses and the RX10 instead of buying the expensive 12-35mm and 35-100mm lenses.

-- hide signature --

Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

Need to be careful with that equivalence. For exposure f2.8 is f2.8 so it is just as fast as a FF f2.8. In terms of light gathering (and effect on noise) and Depth of field though a 1" sensor is a stop slower than m4/3 and 3 stops slower than FF. So in those terms it is 24-200 f8.

My 25f1.4 gives me the equivalent of f2.8 for the occasions when I want shallow DOF. The RX10 would need to be f1.0 at least at the wide end to achieve the same.

It is a very useful and compelling range of focal lengths I have to agree but I do like to go a bit wider than 24mm and 200mm is often not enough reach for wildlife. The wider the range of focal lengths the more compromises the lens designer has to make so I think it best to have an interchangeable lens system.

The RX100 was more compelling because it does what no m4/3 camera can do, and that is to fit in most of my pockets (even in a case) Even the GM1 can't quite manage that with a lens attached.

Regards

John

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jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,666Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Mark Thornton, 9 months ago

Mark Thornton wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

G6 + 14-140 f3.5/5.6 is a much closer equivalent, and should be less than $1200. The RX10 lens is equivalent to 12-100mm f4 on m4/3.

Now that is just a wild exaggeration , its only equivalent to an F/3.78 . Starting at 24mm is pretty useful compared to 28mm {equivalents} .To get at least F/3.78 at 24mm on mFT the only cheap option is the 12-50 { which rapidly declines in aperture } by 100mm {FF equiv} it is at F6.3 which is over a stop behind even the equivalent F/3.78.

At the long end there are no cheap mFT options that are F/3.78 @ 100mm .The RX10 is the only bridge/prosumer camera I have been interested in, in a long time. It ticks an awful lot of boxes , built in decent quality EVF, very good LCD, weather sealed , good consonant aperture zoom range, very good video qualities, 10 fps , built in ND filter, it even has a manual aperture ring  :-).

Jim

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jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,666Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to MAubrey, 9 months ago

MAubrey wrote:

The lens on the RX100 already resolves quite poorly according to DxO. With a lens even more complicated, I would imagine that this will do even worse.

No thanks.

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--Mike

I would expect the reverse I believe that this will be a higher quality lens than that in the RX100. Its all about convenience

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CharlesTokyo
Contributing MemberPosts: 704Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

You can't change the lens on the RX10, but a lot of m4/3 people would be quite happy, I think, even if all they had were the 12-35mm and 35-100mm for their m4/3 camera.

Anyone who is willing to buy a GX7, 12-35 and 35-100 isn't going to be happy with the RX10. These are completely different cameras. Anyone who guys the 12-35 and 35-100 is going to have other lenses. The RX10 may be a better choice for some users, but to suggest that people are making a choice between these to options is a bit crazy.

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jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,666Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to JCB123, 9 months ago

JCB123 wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

You can't change the lens on the RX10, but a lot of m4/3 people would be quite happy, I think, even if all they had were the 12-35mm and 35-100mm for their m4/3 camera.

I have read that the zoom-by-wire is poor because turning the zoom ring causes the focal length to change very slowly. Maybe that can be fixed in firmware? Still, this looks to be a very interesting camera. It isn't very small, but I can imagine that for some people this could be enticing. More dof, of course, than FF or APS-C and slightly more than m4/3, but that isn't a big deal for everyone.

I could see that some people might have an m4/3 body to use with a couple of fast single focal length lenses and the RX10 instead of buying the expensive 12-35mm and 35-100mm lenses.

-- hide signature --

Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

Need to be careful with that equivalence. For exposure f2.8 is f2.8 so it is just as fast as a FF f2.8. In terms of light gathering (and effect on noise) and Depth of field though a 1" sensor is a stop slower than m4/3 and 3 stops slower than FF. So in those terms it is 24-200 f8.

My 25f1.4 gives me the equivalent of f2.8 for the occasions when I want shallow DOF. The RX10 would need to be f1.0 at least at the wide end to achieve the same.

It is a very useful and compelling range of focal lengths I have to agree but I do like to go a bit wider than 24mm and 200mm is often not enough reach for wildlife. The wider the range of focal lengths the more compromises the lens designer has to make so I think it best to have an interchangeable lens system.

The RX100 was more compelling because it does what no m4/3 camera can do, and that is to fit in most of my pockets (even in a case) Even the GM1 can't quite manage that with a lens attached.

Regards

John

Hi John , while as enthusiasts we will explore further { uwa, long telephotos, fast primes etc} .For many people who shoot  at or under 800ISO , which looking through the likes of flickr makes up a huge percentage of photographers. Even though I have an extensive mFT kit and even more extensive FF kit at least  90% of my photos are done at low ISO and between 24-200mm .As a one camera do it all { well do most } i think it looks very interesting

Jim

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jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,666Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

Henry Richardson wrote:

The Sony RX10 has the same 20mp sensor as the Sony RX100 II that is well thought of and it has an equivalent 24-200mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. Having a package that includes the equivalent of a 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 makes the $1200 price easier to take.

$1200 RX10

vs.

$1000 GX7
$1300 12-35mm f2.8
$1500 35-100mm f2.8

Ironically people post exactly these types of comparions all the time between mFT and FF. F/2.8 is F2/2.8 regardless of the difference in final image. Though there will no doubt be plenty posters telling you that in this case F/2.8 on the RX10 is not the same as F/2.8  { maybe equivalence is only true when you are comparing your format to a smaller one }.

Jim

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ASR45
Forum ProPosts: 32,187Gear list
Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to honeyiscool, 9 months ago

My prediction is it will be a fantastic camera, the carl zeiss lens is second to none.  

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Alan.
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Mark Thornton
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Re: Sony RX10 is interesting for m4/3 users
In reply to jim stirling, 9 months ago

I heartily agree with the usefulness of starting at 24mm equivalent and it is good to see a growing number of standard zooms that do (12-35, 12-40, 12-50, and now 12-32). As it stands m4/3 has lenses that bracket the RX10 but no exact matches. I wonder if there would be many takers for a 12-100 f/4.

Mark

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Marti58
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time will tell
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

how it is, lets wait for real world samples and user reports.

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Henry Richardson
Forum ProPosts: 12,665
I posted from photographer's point of view
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

I posted from a photographer's point of view, not a brand loyalist point of view.  I have been on dpreview long enough that most people should know I don't care one bit about brands.  I look at things from the perspective of a photographer and not which big camera corporation is winning, losing, coming from behind, etc. in the sports championships.  I think some photographers might see this RX10 as being very interesting.  Not only based on its specs (that is pretty much all we have with new cameras), but also based on price in comparison to other possibilities.  The brand loyalists will never stray from anything that isn't m4/3, I get that, but for photographers some may think $1200 for this camera with its Zeiss 24-200mm f2.8 looks more attractive that $2700 for the 12-35mm f2.8 and 35-100mm f2.8.  Not everyone, of course.  Before long there are always tests of all new products and we shall see whether it looks as interesting after that.  That is the same as it always is for new stuff.  The GX7, E-M1, etc.

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

fotophool
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,674
It will all depend on that lens...
In reply to Henry Richardson, 9 months ago

My only real gripe with the RX100 was that it didn't go wider than 28mm.

Of course now I'll probably miss f1.8...

Anyway, I'd be interested in a look once the reviews are in.

fotophool

My Flicker Pics

Corpus Christi with the Sony RX100

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