A7/A7r sketch on SAR

Started Oct 11, 2013 | Discussions
captura
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to ShawnM, Oct 11, 2013

ShawnM wrote:

if it is the actual design, my guess is that dome would include a built in flash, wiring for hot-shoe, and the EVF, but since it is a sketch - it may be not exactly to scale or in proper proportions. It is also still a rumour.

If it's an actual design, where's the photo? SAR must be getting desperate, posting 1 minute napkin sketches like this one.

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travelinbri_74
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to captura, Oct 12, 2013

Tough crowd. Personally I am looking for a capable, small, weatherproofed, FF camera. I do think the OM-D is beautiful but regardless of looks I am more interested in what's under this camera's good, how big the lenses are, and how they perform together. Hoping this is the system built for me...
-TBri

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JohnSingkit
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to travelinbri_74, Oct 12, 2013

travelinbri_74 wrote:

Tough crowd. Personally I am looking for a capable, small, weatherproofed, FF camera. I do think the OM-D is beautiful but regardless of looks I am more interested in what's under this camera's good, how big the lenses are, and how they perform together. Hoping this is the system built for me...
-TBri

Agree but I would be surprised if, from its historical approach to industrial design, that the Sony design team would allow a look like this. Although the NEX 7 viewfinder location appears out, I expect the combination of NEX 7 grip on a slightly bigger RX1 body styling with a more streamlined EVF structure.

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captura
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to travelinbri_74, Oct 12, 2013

travelinbri_74 wrote:

Tough crowd. Personally I am looking for a capable, small, weatherproofed, FF camera. I do think the OM-D is beautiful but regardless of looks I am more interested in what's under this camera's good, how big the lenses are, and how they perform together. Hoping this is the system built for me...
-TBri

There are 2 Ol;ympus OMD cameras now; the E-M5 and the new flagship camera the E-M1. Neither one is a Full Frame camera, not even an APS-C camera. They are M43 cameras with a sensor 1/23 the size of a F.F.

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alisaad619
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to PVCdroid, Oct 12, 2013

I think that the angle of the sketch make the EVF bigger than what it is

also we have this "real" A7/7r low-res photo from china

and clearly we can see that the EVF is not like the sketch

anyway we just need to wait 5/4 days and we will get everything about A7/7r

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captura
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to alisaad619, Oct 12, 2013

alisaad619 wrote:

I think that the angle of the sketch make the EVF bigger than what it is

also we have this "real" A7/7r low-res photo from china

and clearly we can see that the EVF is not like the sketch

anyway we just need to wait 5/4 days and we will get everything about A7/7r

It has the basic shape of an Olympus E-M1.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to captura, Oct 12, 2013

captura wrote:

alisaad619 wrote:

I think that the angle of the sketch make the EVF bigger than what it is

also we have this "real" A7/7r low-res photo from china

and clearly we can see that the EVF is not like the sketch

anyway we just need to wait 5/4 days and we will get everything about A7/7r

It has the basic shape of an Olympus E-M1.

Basic shape, but not quite as bulky as E-M1 (which the sketch reflects).

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Lightshow
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to PVCdroid, Oct 12, 2013

I too am disappointed in the direction the design is headed, I really enjoy using my 7, it's great fun, so now I wait to see what the real cameras look like.

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Rod McD
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to PVCdroid, Oct 12, 2013

Checked SAR and saw the sketch.  All rumor, and may or may not be true.  We'll be wiser in a few days (if the announcement date rumor is true too).

I read through some of the comments that followed the sketch.  I was left with the distinct impression that half the writers are more interested in what it looks like than what it does.  And there I was thinking that people want FF in a highly portable package to take high grade photographs.   They actually want photographic bling.  Much as I would prefer an RF design, I'll take the hump, if it meets that goal (and I can afford the Australian price....... )

A number of people here have suggested that the EVF may be removable.  I'll vote for the opposite.  I hope it's built in and there's one less joint and electrical connection.  The more integrated it is the better it will be sealed against water and dust.

Cheers, Rod

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parallaxproblem
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to Rod McD, Oct 12, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Checked SAR and saw the sketch. All rumor, and may or may not be true. We'll be wiser in a few days (if the announcement date rumor is true too).

I read through some of the comments that followed the sketch. I was left with the distinct impression that half the writers are more interested in what it looks like than what it does. And there I was thinking that people want FF in a highly portable package to take high grade photographs. They actually want photographic bling.

The concerns about the EVF are practical, not 'aesthetic' in most cases. In fact the criticism is that the EVF has been placed in that position to make it look like a DSLR (ie. 'Photographic bling'!), possibly at the expense of functionality

Much as I would prefer an RF design, I'll take the hump, if it meets that goal (and I can afford the Australian price....... )

It depends what your goal is. Remember that the pupose of NEX cameras was primarily to be small:

1. Do you want someting that fits into a small camera bag or into a pocket etc? A camera with big 'pentaprism-style' EVF takes-up more space overall (we are talking here about dimensions required for storage, not actual body volume) than a rangefinder type camera and will not fit into pockets or the small video cases like the ones which can be used with the current NEX models

2. Do you want to use the camera like many people use their current NEX, with it held at the waist and the LCD tilted upwards? If that drawing is accurate then the eyepiece of the VF will obscure the LCD when the camera is held in position

3.  Do you want something discrete that you can use in the street or take to concerts/events without causing too much of a stir (or getting confiscated?).  Rangefinders achieve that objective, DSLRs don't...

4. If the drawing is accurate then it means that the two most recent E-mount body cameras (ignoring the 5T which wasn't really a new release) are of DSLR-format. By extrapolation this suggests that Sony might be looking at adopting this style for all future E-mount releases.  Not good if you bought into NEX because the cameras are rangefinder style

5. NEX was supposed to be about taking photography forward and not about being 'retro' (NEXt?).  Putting fake pentaprisms on E-mount cameras suggests a new philosophy which is counter to that which created the range and persuaded most current NEX owners to buy into it

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Keit ll
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to parallaxproblem, Oct 12, 2013

Does anyone have a photo of the RX1 with the EVF attached ?

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Allan Olesen
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I like the design
In reply to PVCdroid, Oct 12, 2013

I just want the strange little camera beneath the viewfinder to go away. But one can hope that it is detachable.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to Keit ll, Oct 12, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

Does anyone have a photo of the RX1 with the EVF attached ?

You will find some here:

http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=18254

Actually it looks rather similar to my NEX-5T with EVF attached... and I have no problems with an EVF which can be fitted to a body when necessary. A shame Sony didn't pick that design for the cheaper of the two FF cameras if they really couldn't 'stomach' a rangefinder shape (and external EVF's have angle adjustment which is useful)

As an aside, I strongly suspect that the NEX EVF (Sony FDA-EV1S) and the RX1 EVF (FDA-EV1MK) are basically the same product (specs are identical and the external mouldings look the same except for the colour), albeit with different mounts (NEX 'smart' connector vs. hotshoe - just different physical connections with no electronic differences). Compare and contrast:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/819651-REG/Sony_FDA_EV1S_Electronic_Viewfinder_for_NEX_5N.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/907012-REG/Sony_fda_ev1mk_FDA_EVM1K_Electronic_Viewfinder.html

However the NEX EVF is about half the price of the RX1 version and so a $10 'hotshoe-to-smart' adaptor by an enterprising Ebay vendor (there are plenty the other way around) which included video connections could sell rather well...

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Jorginho
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to captura, Oct 12, 2013

1/23? It is almost 1/4 the size of a FF sensor. So all tjings being equal, the FF sensor gives you a clearly better image. A small body, mch smaller than a DSLR FF is possible of course. But smaller lenses not. So I wonder what the incentive is really. To my mind, the best argument would be:

- smaller body,
- smaller lenses
- similar IQ.

What m43 has currently with APS-c DSLRs (to my mind of course). But we'll see. Always nice to see somehting new and a mirrorless cam with such a large sensor is very welcome regardless!

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Rod McD
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to parallaxproblem, Oct 12, 2013

Hi again,

I actually agree with some of the serious points you've made.  Like I said in my post, I too prefer the RF style, particularly for its ease of storage.  (I can use both a left hand or central VF).  I'd accept the hump if the camera is otherwise excellent - it's not a deal breaker.

My reference to bling was more in response to some of the comments blog in SAR - there are more comments about what it looks like and little reference to the kind of practical issues you mention.

Cheers, Rod

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parallaxproblem
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to Rod McD, Oct 12, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Hi again,

I actually agree with some of the serious points you've made. Like I said in my post, I too prefer the RF style, particularly for its ease of storage. (I can use both a left hand or central VF). I'd accept the hump if the camera is otherwise excellent - it's not a deal breaker.

My reference to bling was more in response to some of the comments blog in SAR - there are more comments about what it looks like and little reference to the kind of practical issues you mention.

Cheers, Rod

Sure, many thanks for your reasoned reply

I was just putting a point of view, not attacking your opinion.  I agree, arguments based on pure aesthetics are not very serious (I have an A900 which was totally panned for aesthetics but which is still a fantastic camera)

Regards!

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blue_skies
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to Jorginho, Oct 12, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

1/23? It is almost 1/4 the size of a FF sensor. So all tjings being equal, the FF sensor gives you a clearly better image. A small body, mch smaller than a DSLR FF is possible of course. But smaller lenses not. So I wonder what the incentive is really. To my mind, the best argument would be:

- smaller body,
- smaller lenses
- similar IQ.

What m43 has currently with APS-c DSLRs (to my mind of course). But we'll see. Always nice to see somehting new and a mirrorless cam with such a large sensor is very welcome regardless!

My FF RF lenses are actually very small, including the adapter, and I can't wait to use them at 1x crop, as opposed to 2x crop on m43. Supposedly, they will work well.

Also, the Nex is similar to my old SLR in size, and the OM-D is already larger. If the EVF causes the FF Nex to be similar in size to the OM-D, then kudos to Sony. I do hope that the Sony has fewer buttons and a better grip though.

A 4x ratio is about two stops and that is a huge difference (noise, low light, DOF). If the price for that is larger lenses, then I'd happily comply...

I just hope that rumored prices are correct. It makes an OM-D camera seem very overpriced.

Plus, at 2x the size of the APS-C sensor, I can use my E lenses in crop mode (12Mp for 24Mp FF sensor). This sounds like a win to me - I lose resolution, but I may make up for this in lower noise, higher DR, 1.5x the FL and I can get OSS with that.

Lots of incentives in my mind.

I do hope that the EVF is tiltable (and removable?) - I am not very keen about the hump otherwise..

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

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gotompoes
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to blue_skies, Oct 12, 2013

When the first picture arrived of the Olympus EM-1 the whole m4/3 forum was yelling and shouting how ugly this thing was. In the end it turned out to be a nice camera.

I see no point to base any conclusion on the sketch of the A7/A7R, this is all too premature.

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blue_skies
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to gotompoes, Oct 12, 2013

gotompoes wrote:

When the first picture arrived of the Olympus EM-1 the whole m4/3 forum was yelling and shouting how ugly this thing was. In the end it turned out to be a nice camera.

I see no point to base any conclusion on the sketch of the A7/A7R, this is all too premature.

Samys just listed prices (body only).

OM-D EM-1 $1399

A7 24Mp FF $1698

that is only $300 more (+22%) for a 'same size' body with a 4x larger sensor!!

Another $300 gets you an AF 24-70 kit zoom FF lens.

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Cheers,
Henry

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ioshadha
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Re: A7/A7r sketch on SAR
In reply to PVCdroid, Oct 12, 2013

Sorry guys, but I have to say this...

This whole thread will be a waste of time (specially the people who had a fight on this) when the new Sonys get really released. No one will "ever" refer to this thread again in few days

Say that I enjoy the speculation as well and I have been waiting for the new Sony models to be released and also the other cameras that will be revealed right around the same time frame. But guys just be patient - non of us can change whats going to get released by Sony in few days - it is already designed and manufactured.

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Olympus XZ-1 and working my way up!

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