Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices

Started Oct 9, 2013 | Discussions
Trevor G
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Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
Oct 9, 2013

You (or I) can now buy a new SD1 Merrill for $1800 and that price includes a 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM Lens as well.

Does this mean that new 60Mp Full Frame Sigma is about to land, or does it mean that it definitely will not arrive before Christmas?

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Trevor G
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Sigma SD1 Merrill
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Scott Greiff
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 9, 2013

I haven't seen those prices outside of Japan. Fingers crossed are for a new camera.

_Scott

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Truman Prevatt
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 9, 2013

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system.  That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor.  It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

Time will tell.

http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-will-sigma-announce-a-mirrorless-system-camera-in-two-days/

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Truman
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SandyF
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Oct 9, 2013

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

Rather than 'replacing' one style camera with another, I'd love to see Sigma offering several different type bodies, keep DSLR, DPxMerrill, and then something new and innovative. I agree with the comment that the SD1Merrill isn't an 'entry level' DSLR... in my opinion it's a shame they're discontinuing the SD15, it's a nice DSLR. Perhaps they can do an update body with its older sensor if they still have them in stock.

I don't know the complications of keeping several lines of cameras active, but I'd see it as an advantage to Sigma. Plus they need to push online sales more. They're just not going to be carried in many stores around the world, but this is the trend with many lines of merchandise.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Wrong Replacement
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Oct 9, 2013

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

The DP cameras are already mirrorless.

So why would a mirrorless camera "replace them"?

Instead it seems way more likely to me that a mirrorless system would potentially replace the system with... a mirror.

So basically an SD-1 with live view, and possibly not a mirror.  But with the SA mount.

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MoreorLess
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Oct 9, 2013

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

Time will tell.

http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-will-sigma-announce-a-mirrorless-system-camera-in-two-days/

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Truman
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Unless they can come up with a FF sensor this seems the best route to me.

The problem the SD1 has had is IMHO that it simply doesn't offer much of a cost/size saving over a FF DSLR, yes getting FF performance at low ISO from an ASPC sensor is impressive but the advantages are limated. I can see the reason Sigma went in that direction, most higher end ASPC DSLR users don't seem to want very small bodies, they want bodies of a similar size to that which can be achieved on FF with the likes of the D600 and 6D.

Mirrorless for me is clearly different, not because I don't expect Sony and potentially others to make a small FF body but that such a body is clearly going to have to be more prone to being unbalanced its lenses. Just look at what Sony is rumoured to be offering, a 28-70mm 3.5 - 5.6 kit zoom, a 35mm F f/2.8 prime and then a "luxury" 24-70mm Zeiss F/4 zoom(god knows how much that'll cost), all that to me clearly says that lens size is holding back the system.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Oct 9, 2013

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

Time will tell.

http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-will-sigma-announce-a-mirrorless-system-camera-in-two-days/

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Truman
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Was this not the old news? That Sigma will (at a cost) replace mounts for the newer lenses?

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maple
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to MoreorLess, Oct 9, 2013

MoreorLess wrote:

The problem the SD1 has had is IMHO that it simply doesn't offer much of a cost/size saving over a FF DSLR, yes getting FF performance at low ISO from an ASPC sensor is impressive but the advantages are limated. I can see the reason Sigma went in that direction, most higher end ASPC DSLR users don't seem to want very small bodies, they want bodies of a similar size to that which can be achieved on FF with the likes of the D600 and 6D.

Mirrorless for me is clearly different, not because I don't expect Sony and potentially others to make a small FF body but that such a body is clearly going to have to be more prone to being unbalanced its lenses. Just look at what Sony is rumoured to be offering, a 28-70mm 3.5 - 5.6 kit zoom, a 35mm F f/2.8 prime and then a "luxury" 24-70mm Zeiss F/4 zoom(god knows how much that'll cost), all that to me clearly says that lens size is holding back the system.

You nailed it, at least imo. Not many see it that way, though.

I’ve long held that the biggest advantage of Foveon is FF IQ (mostly in resolution) in an APS-C platform. Yet, they refuse to play cards to their longest suit and made their DSLR as big as FF ones.

Sigma has more reasons to go mirror-less than anyone else. They have almost nothing to lose in DSLR segment, but only loss to save. And CDAF is a lot more accurate and gets it dead on every time to take full advantage of the Foveon sharpness. And it’s no slower than their own PDAF. Just imagine a compact and light mirror-less system delivering you IQ otherwise possible only with 3 – 4 kilos of neck straining gear. Don't tell me they have DP. It's too limiting.

If a new mount is too risky, they can perhaps join Ricoh in their GXR modular system.

In any event, it can’t possibly do worse than SD. What was Sigma thinking?

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Trevor G
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to SandyF, Oct 9, 2013

SandyF wrote:

Plus they need to push online sales more. They're just not going to be carried in many stores around the world, but this is the trend with many lines of merchandise.

They seem to have good support for online sales via the US Sigma site.  Good specials on lenses at the moment.

1) Otherwise sales support comes from customer demand.  No one will stock an item for which there is no demand.

2) Many online sites are simply "feeders" to a main site elsewhere, and orders are shipped from a central location that is related to the original supplier or distributor. Many/most online mercahnts never handle goods.

Based on that Sigma possibly could do more, but at what cost to profitability?

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Shoei
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 9, 2013

Talk to CRK,
local prices will surprise you and all come with local warranty.
Grey Market is a little fraught with peril.

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Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

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Trevor G
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Re: Wrong Replacement
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Oct 10, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

The DP cameras are already mirrorless.

So why would a mirrorless camera "replace them"?

Perhaps something was meant to be understood - when we use the term "mirrorless" we normally interpolate the words "interchangeable lens".

I have a feeling that is what Truman meant, especially since he also used the word "system" which suggests somewhat more than the DP 1, 2 and 3 series.

Instead it seems way more likely to me that a mirrorless system would potentially replace the system with... a mirror.

No - it would replace what we have now, a large-bodied, large lens APS-C sensor DSLR with a compact, DP-size APS-C sensor system which uses interchangeable lenses of an appropriate size and configuration.

Sigma would sell a lot of DP size interchangeable lens bodies, even if they just used 3 primes of the existing lenses.

So basically an SD-1 with live view, and possibly not a mirror.  But with the SA mount.

That's an entirely different thing which is hardly going to be a compact camera system, as mirrorless in its most successful form has evolved to be.

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3dreal
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices-Old News
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Oct 10, 2013

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

Time will tell.

http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-will-sigma-announce-a-mirrorless-system-camera-in-two-days/

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Truman
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Thats old news, end of july 2013. Before they announced lens-mount-exchanging-service.

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Gesture
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to maple, Oct 10, 2013

This isn't Sigma's thinking, but a DP ML (mirrorless), a la Samsung NX, Sony EX, Canon EOS, would open it up for owners of Leica lenses, etc.

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Truman Prevatt
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Re: Wrong Replacement
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Oct 10, 2013

If you want to call it so, every point and shoot including cell phone camera is mirror-less.  However, they like the DPX are not systems. A mirror-less system is one that is a total system with interchangeable lenses.

Unless Sigma is willing to invest the money and I expect it is big bucks to compete with Canon and Nikon in the 135 format sensor market the mirror-less market seems to be the logical choice. With Canon, Nikon and Sony rolling our mirror-less ASP-C and even in the long run 135 format mirror-less cameras the DPX will have run its course.

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

The DP cameras are already mirrorless.

So why would a mirrorless camera "replace them"?

Instead it seems way more likely to me that a mirrorless system would potentially replace the system with... a mirror.

So basically an SD-1 with live view, and possibly not a mirror. But with the SA mount.

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Truman
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Tom Schum
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Re: Wrong Replacement
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Oct 11, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

On the Canon rumors site there is a mention of sigma announcing a mirror less system. That makes a lot more sense than a new sensor. It would be a small step to replace the DPX with a mirror-less camera system.

The DP cameras are already mirrorless.

So why would a mirrorless camera "replace them"?

Instead it seems way more likely to me that a mirrorless system would potentially replace the system with... a mirror.

So basically an SD-1 with live view, and possibly not a mirror. But with the SA mount.

Sigma already has some good mirrorless lenses in the DPxM series.  They could do a proprietary mount for them, then sell an electronic SA mount adapter as well.

This way, they would be the first manufacturer to support leaf-shutter lenses as well as ordinary lenses.

On second thought, maybe not.  Changing lenses is a dirty dusty job, and so is a focal plane shutter.  The Merrill sensor sees all.  DPxM is a way to avoid hassles such as this because there is no dust possible anywhere near the sensor.

If I were in the field I would want a body for each lens.  Perhaps expanding DPxM ordering options further into the Sigma lens line would be the best way to go:  Order it with 85mm F1.4, or 18-250 zoom, and it arrives with this lens fixed in place with a leaf shutter: non-interchangeable and non dusty, fully calibrated to the lens.  Big strengths and addressing niche markets at the same time.

Oh yes, and with a DSLR-sized battery same as in SD1/SD15/SD14 (hide it in a grip-type bulge).

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Tom Schum

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Trevor G
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DPxM Series with interchangeable lenses
In reply to Tom Schum, Oct 12, 2013

Tom Schum wrote:

Sigma already has some good mirrorless lenses in the DPxM series.  They could do a proprietary mount for them, then sell an electronic SA mount adapter as well.

This way, they would be the first manufacturer to support leaf-shutter lenses as well as ordinary lenses.

On second thought, maybe not.  Changing lenses is a dirty dusty job, and so is a focal plane shutter.  The Merrill sensor sees all.  DPxM is a way to avoid hassles such as this because there is no dust possible anywhere near the sensor.

Not if you read the Luminous Landscape report of the DP2m

MR found 2 dust spots on the sensor which he found annoying.

Changing lenses should always be done in a neutral atmosphere like a closed car (unless you are a smoker) and never outside near vehicle traffic, especially.

I think ILMs (interchangeable lens mounts) for the DP series would be great.  No zooms unless f1.8, otherwise  the existing  primes would do nicely.

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richard stone
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 12, 2013

I bought an Oly E-pl1 last year because my SD10 was nearly dead. Now it seems truly dead. The Oly was cheap, versatile, and very functional. And it works well, producing excellent jpgs, although certainly not as good as a properly processed DP2M file. I'm not sure the Oly jpgs are even as good as images from the SD10, but they are easier to produce.

And Sigma is about halfway to a mirror-less "system" already with the 18-35 and the DP-M cameras. They just need to decide on the lens mount. Leica? SA? M43? And maybe an add-on electronic viewer, like the Oly VF series? And in-camera stabilization so the camera is more useful with higher ISO...

It should be fun to watch, and I would be interested.

Richard

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Trevor G
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 15, 2013

Body only now $1500.

That's a bargain!

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Trevor G
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 19, 2013

Trevor G wrote:

Body only now $1500.

That's a bargain!

Or including a 17-50 f2.8 lens for $1551 on Amazon.  That's a deal!!

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YonathanZ
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Re: Bottom Falls Out Of SD1 Merrill Prices
In reply to Trevor G, Oct 19, 2013

What's so special about this SD1 that it costs more than some Canon or Nikon full frame cameras?

I see it has a 46MP sensor. Is that what it's all about, or does it also have other unique features?

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