S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!

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Jostian
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S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
9 months ago

Quite surprised to see these results, compared the 800 and 1600 iso crops from the S110 to the S120 (from PBlog review), and the S120 look markedly more fuzzy at 800 and 1600 iso... see below. Interesting, maybe the Digic 6 has wow speed but compromises appear to have been made in other areas maybe?

S120 crops

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S110 crops

Jostian

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mjdundee
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to Jostian, 9 months ago

Jostian wrote:

Quite surprised to see these results, compared the 800 and 1600 iso crops from the S110 to the S120 (from PBlog review), and the S120 look markedly more fuzzy at 800 and 1600 iso... see below. Interesting, maybe the Digic 6 has wow speed but compromises appear to have been made in other areas maybe?

S120 crops

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ISO 800 S95

ISO 1600 S95

S110 crops

Jostian

S120 really makes a huge difference even vs S95 - in a negative way! Bravo Canon, go ahead!

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B1ackhat
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to Jostian, 9 months ago

Interesting.  I'll take it with a grain of salt for now since it is simply one review and a single specific camera, but I'm definitely skeptical of the S120 IQ now.

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PaulRivers
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to B1ackhat, 9 months ago

B1ackhat wrote:

Interesting. I'll take it with a grain of salt for now since it is simply one review and a single specific camera, but I'm definitely skeptical of the S120 IQ now.

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Yeah...

Pixel peeping at this level becomes highly variable and subjective. When the s100 came out, the imaging resource comparison suggested it had noteably less detail than the s95 in low light. When I did my own comparison though, it had slightly more -
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1110007

(Some of this is that I shot raw, but that's part of the point).
There's no doubt the s100 in jpg had less noise than the s95 - problem was, the results were so glossy that if you were shooting jpg you would get a lot of "men wearing heavy makeup" effect which looked very awkward in your photos.

I'd rather have more noise at the pixel level and more natural pics than the "everyone is wearing heavy makeup" results I would often see from jpg's with the s100.

...not that it ends up mattering to me, as I only shoot raw, but still. I think this is more of a result of the s100's overeager noise reduction that does well with test shots that have nice straight lines and line art, but does badly with people's faces.

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mjdundee
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to PaulRivers, 9 months ago

PaulRivers wrote:

B1ackhat wrote:

Interesting. I'll take it with a grain of salt for now since it is simply one review and a single specific camera, but I'm definitely skeptical of the S120 IQ now.

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"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~ Immanual Kant

Yeah...

Pixel peeping at this level becomes highly variable and subjective. When the s100 came out, the imaging resource comparison suggested it had noteably less detail than the s95 in low light. When I did my own comparison though, it had slightly more -
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1110007

(Some of this is that I shot raw, but that's part of the point).
There's no doubt the s100 in jpg had less noise than the s95 - problem was, the results were so glossy that if you were shooting jpg you would get a lot of "men wearing heavy makeup" effect which looked very awkward in your photos.

I'd rather have more noise at the pixel level and more natural pics than the "everyone is wearing heavy makeup" results I would often see from jpg's with the s100.

...not that it ends up mattering to me, as I only shoot raw, but still. I think this is more of a result of the s100's overeager noise reduction that does well with test shots that have nice straight lines and line art, but does badly with people's faces.

If I understand you right, the jpgs out of camera at higher ISO look more natural i.e. show more details than the S 100 out of camera. (this is my impression too)  Now - i still own the  S95 and found it hard to achieve better images from developping RAW with the Canon software. The jpgs out of the S95 could hardly be beaten - so today I only shoot jpgs.

Do you think the S120 will deliver better results if shot in RAW - and if yes which software would you recommend or do you use to develop?

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John McCormack
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to mjdundee, 9 months ago

It's early days yet for S120 reviews. Cameralabs.com has posted a few images from the S120 on its site, though the overcast weather didn't help with IQ. I'll wait for full reviews.

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Britney Elvis
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Digic 6 on SX280 also not so hot
In reply to Jostian, 9 months ago

Jostian wrote:

Quite surprised to see these results, compared the 800 and 1600 iso crops from the S110 to the S120 (from PBlog review), and the S120 look markedly more fuzzy at 800 and 1600 iso... see below. Interesting, maybe the Digic 6 has wow speed but compromises appear to have been made in other areas maybe?

S120 crops

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S110 crops

Jostian

I found the Hi ISO NR of the SX280 digic 6 also was more detail destructive than the Hi Iso on my SX50 digic 5...

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PaulRivers
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to mjdundee, 9 months ago

mjdundee wrote:

PaulRivers wrote:

When I did my own comparison though, it had slightly more -

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1110007

If I understand you right, the jpgs out of camera at higher ISO look more natural i.e. show more details than the S 100 out of camera. (this is my impression too) Now - i still own the S95 and found it hard to achieve better images from developping RAW with the Canon software. The jpgs out of the S95 could hardly be beaten - so today I only shoot jpgs.

Yeah, I personally thought that the s100 jpg's were better for people, and the s95 jpg's were better for line art, furniture, etc. But I care more about people looking good than those other things.

I personally found that shooting raw, then turning off the detail noise reduction gave me the best results for high iso noise reduction with the s100 vs the s95. In DPP you can press ctrl-a to select all the pics for a day, then (I think) ctrl-t to bring up the tools menu and change the noise reduction setting for all pics at once.

I think some basic "detail" noise reduction was being applied to the s100 raw file that you couldn't get rid of, so turning it off "completely" just removed the excessive noise reduction. The "color" noise reduction on the s100 I thought was way better vs the s95, removing practically all "color" noise completely.

If you just shot jpg, I preferred the s95 results. Honestly, the biggest advantage of the s100 for me was how much grippier and easier to handle it felt. The slight low light advantage was nice, but not a dealbreaker.

Do you think the S120 will deliver better results if shot in RAW - and if yes which software would you recommend or do you use to develop?

I have no idea if it will or not. That's the kind of thing you just have to wait until they release the camera and people do tests to find out. (Though usually in the initial wave there's a lot of overly dramatic opinions trying to villify or glorify the camera.)

I've used Lightroom with the s100, and I really don't like the colors you get out of it vs using DPP (which comes for free with the camera). Lightroom does a better job with highlights and shadows, but DPP does a better job with colors. One time I tried it, DPP made my black shirt black, but Lightroom left it lightish-black with a lot of noise on it for example. DPP's colors are a little oversaturated and overdramatic, but Lightroom I felt often just gave weird colors.

Personally, I'd just start with DPP. Who knows for sure though.

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mjdundee
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to PaulRivers, 9 months ago

PaulRivers wrote:

mjdundee wrote:

PaulRivers wrote:

When I did my own comparison though, it had slightly more -

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1110007

If I understand you right, the jpgs out of camera at higher ISO look more natural i.e. show more details than the S 100 out of camera. (this is my impression too) Now - i still own the S95 and found it hard to achieve better images from developping RAW with the Canon software. The jpgs out of the S95 could hardly be beaten - so today I only shoot jpgs.

Yeah, I personally thought that the s100 jpg's were better for people, and the s95 jpg's were better for line art, furniture, etc. But I care more about people looking good than those other things.

I personally found that shooting raw, then turning off the detail noise reduction gave me the best results for high iso noise reduction with the s100 vs the s95. In DPP you can press ctrl-a to select all the pics for a day, then (I think) ctrl-t to bring up the tools menu and change the noise reduction setting for all pics at once.

I think some basic "detail" noise reduction was being applied to the s100 raw file that you couldn't get rid of, so turning it off "completely" just removed the excessive noise reduction. The "color" noise reduction on the s100 I thought was way better vs the s95, removing practically all "color" noise completely.

If you just shot jpg, I preferred the s95 results. Honestly, the biggest advantage of the s100 for me was how much grippier and easier to handle it felt. The slight low light advantage was nice, but not a dealbreaker.

Do you think the S120 will deliver better results if shot in RAW - and if yes which software would you recommend or do you use to develop?

I have no idea if it will or not. That's the kind of thing you just have to wait until they release the camera and people do tests to find out. (Though usually in the initial wave there's a lot of overly dramatic opinions trying to villify or glorify the camera.)

I've used Lightroom with the s100, and I really don't like the colors you get out of it vs using DPP (which comes for free with the camera). Lightroom does a better job with highlights and shadows, but DPP does a better job with colors. One time I tried it, DPP made my black shirt black, but Lightroom left it lightish-black with a lot of noise on it for example. DPP's colors are a little oversaturated and overdramatic, but Lightroom I felt often just gave weird colors.

Personally, I'd just start with DPP. Who knows for sure though.

Thanks a lot Paul for this detailed explanation.I thought about LR but I still work with PS Elements 6 and sometimes DPP.

The camera that will replace my S95 has not yet been released - so I hope that I can handle a miinor issue with it until a LX9, S130 or something new will take the enthusiast IQ one step up.

Have fun taking photographs - in the end that is what its all about.

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seri_art
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to PaulRivers, 9 months ago

I have my DPP defaults set for no NR so I don't even think about it.

PaulRivers wrote:

I personally found that shooting raw, then turning off the detail noise reduction gave me the best results for high iso noise reduction with the s100 vs the s95. In DPP you can press ctrl-a to select all the pics for a day, then (I think) ctrl-t to bring up the tools menu and change the noise reduction setting for all pics at once.
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PC Wheeler
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110! Uh .. Maybe not!
In reply to mjdundee, 9 months ago

The full review here http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_powershot_s120_review/ and the sample images here

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_powershot_s120_review/sample_images/

suggest the S120 does quite well at higher ISOs.

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Phil

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S110 vs S120.... higher iso's and the winner is... the S110!
In reply to Jostian, 9 months ago

There's a good collection of S120 images here at DPR, some with very high ISO, but most not.

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Phil

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S110 vs S120.... Backlit sensor in S120?
In reply to mjdundee, 9 months ago

Oddly enough the Canon UK and Canon Germany sites say it is backlit, while that fact(?) is not mentioned at the Canon USA site:

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_Camera/PowerShot/PowerShot_S120/index.aspx in the Specifications area.

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Phil

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panamforeman
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Re: S110 vs S120.... Backlit sensor in S120?
In reply to PC Wheeler, 9 months ago

PC Wheeler wrote:

Oddly enough the Canon UK and Canon Germany sites say it is backlit, while that fact(?) is not mentioned at the Canon USA site:

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_Camera/PowerShot/PowerShot_S120/index.aspx in the Specifications area.

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Phil

That's been my whole point on this forum.  The UK & German sites says it is. Here in US of A no mention of it. Canon USA doesn't even list such in their specs.

Canon Japan should make a statement:  "IT is, or IT ain't" !!!

And....is it the G16 and the S120? or Only the G16?  Neither?  What???

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