I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
vadimraskin
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Re: That's too easy
In reply to TrapperJohn, 11 months ago

TrapperJohn wrote:

to attribute it to racism.

It might as well be but that is where it is all originated from. It gained life of its own, of course, but the roots of the movement lay right there: old and well proven rasism, which is hard to rid of.

There may have been a tendancy to amplify Obama's errors due to his race on the part of a few narrow minded people, but the root reasons that people voted tp had nothing to do with him being black. It was Obama and the dems in general taking a rather high handed approach because they had a filibuster proof majority in both houses. And they appeared to be ignoring the immediate economic crisis and going off on another entitlement program that we just don't have the money for. That not only got the attention of the tp'ers, but the independents like myself who started thinking - this all dem solution may not be a good thing, maybe I should get to the polls during midterm elections. I didn't vote tp - I'm not that dumb - but in 2009, I was very concerned about what the 2008 election had created.

The dem leaders warned Obama not to push the ACA, that it would do exactly what it did do - disenfranchise a lot of voters, and create a hardcore opposition. They knew, unlike him, that 2008 was a knee jerk reaction to the real estate crash, not a mandate to change everyone's lives. He would not listen, and forged ahead, thus giving a lot of people the motivation to vote tp, and squandering a lot of political capital in the process.

You have some very good points here and I, for once, did not like all the "shenanigans" that Dems pulled to get the ACA thru the Congress, it stunk! I do; however; understand the reasons behind it. You can't just put your 20/20 glasses on now, almost four years later and pass judgments on what was done back then. You have to take underlining events into account: general opposition to Obama (see above), predicted "shellacking" of the Dems in the mid-term elections and not just because of Obamacare (too simplistic) but because of generally unhappy electorate scared and tiered of high unemployment, bad economy and whipped by the media into a frenzy. If Obama and Dems followed a usual route of negotiations, endless talks and committees hearings, the Reform would not have a chance to happen and the Reform was Obama's center of the election campaign. If he failed it, he would have been done for.

That was Obama's big mistake - believing that once he had the job, he didn't have to listen to anyone but himself. And it shows in his administration... there have been several crises that he has remained detached and aloof about... the budget of 2011, the gulf oil spill, to mention a couple. He  appeared to be petulant and disinterested. Not a good symptom when you're expected to handle every crisis with equal vigor, whether that crisis interests you or not.

ACA affects every citizen in this country. It should have been crafted with the approval of both parties, and hence, the tacit approval of the electorate that put them there. It will remain a sore point and politically toxic until it is torn apart and redone with buy in from the bulk of the electorate. That shouldn't be hard to get - everyone wants a single payer system, and I don't believe anyone has a problem with subsidizing low income people.

"Single payer system" is not an ideal system by far. It has as many downsides as upsides. It is prone to corruption, easily affected by political and ideological mood of the time (abortion is one of the most prominent causes), and creates tendency to have a "free for all" attitude in population. It sounds good in theory but I would be apprehensive to advocate for it. You need a private business approach to create some competition IMOHO. Besides, how is it different from ACA (other than getting rid of the Health Insurance industry vs. creating another HUGE Government bureaucracy instead)? Everyone STILL MUST pay into the system! Isn't it a major sticking point of the GOP opposition to ACA. The costs are still there, no matter who pays them.

And this time, try to address the ungodly costs.

I think you are forgetting about the conditions that led to ACA: shrinking base of the insured people and expanding base of the consumers of health care (baby boomers) and trends that were (and still are) causing huge raise of health care costs for the population paying INTO the system. There isn't a single cause of it, of course, but massive loss of manufacturing jobs and switch over from production oriented economy to the service oriented one lead to many younger people get a job that was not providing a conventional health care insurance; hence the shrinking of the payer base. Health insurance premiums were increasing dramatically way before Obamacare along with reduction of covered care. I know it from my own experience, so probably most of the working people. These costs were chocking businesses and the budget. Something had to be done. You can't just say, "take care of the economy first and then go fix the health care" Health Care IS the huge part of the economy.

Costs of the ACA were SUPPOSED to be mitigated by involvement of that younger and healthier group of payers into the system and increase in the tax base. What GOP and SCOTUS made of it is a mess!

The tp has done one thing right, they brought the budget and the deficit front and center in 2011. And that's where it needs to be. We simply have to get that under control. That means hard times for everyone, before it's too late.

The deficit in the downturn times is very easy to explain: Government has to take care of unemployed people (lay outs) while much less income is coming in. In fact, current deficit is almost a half of what it was in 2011 and it keeps shrinking (if TP stops fckng with economy). By end of 2014 the deficit should almost disappear and surplus will go towards reduction of the Debt (again, unless politicians come up with more ideas on how to screw it up). End of hugely expensive wars, reduction in Government spending (yes) and increase in tax revenues due to raising employment are major contributors.

The situation today is no different than it was in 1980 or 1996. Nothing really changes, nothing major, anyway. Let's look even further back...

Franklin Roosevelt had the same free hand and majorities in both houses in 1932, in the depths of the depression that was far worse than what we face today. He and the dems went hog wild with the programs. By 1936, the supreme court had struck down many of his programs as unconstitutional, and the voters had put republicans back into the house and senate, to reign him in.

Even back then, there was reason to be prejudiced against Roosevelt, he was confined to a wheelchair from polio. That wasn't a factor. His somewhat socialist policies were the factor in bringing opposition to the dems running everything, even though a big one, social security, survived. Of course, we're merrily borrowing every cent in SS to pay for the record deficits we're running...

It is all a matter of opinion, of course.

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john9001
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to lylejk, 11 months ago

The government borrows 40 cents of every dollars it spends, how long do you think that can go on? The tea party people were elected to end that, they have sent bill after bill to the senate and Reid has never brought them up for a vote.  This country has not had a budget for six years just "continuing resulalution", that allows the govt to keep spending more and more .

The govt is "printing" $85 billion a month with no plans to end it. Obama said he would Transform America, and he is on his way to do it.  But, transform america into what?  Another bankrupt socialist falure?

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vadimraskin
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Re: And that's way too easy
In reply to TrapperJohn, 11 months ago

TrapperJohn wrote:

I see a lot of people here who want to dismiss the tp as the offspring of some evil group of rich schemers, just as the hardcore right wants to dismiss left wing organizations as the spawn of George Soros.

It is not. It is a grassroots movement that reflects the opinion of a lot of people, just as Occupy was a grassroots movement of the left wing, another offshoot of the 2007 real estate crash. The difference is, the tp got people elected to congress, while Occupy just made a mess in public parks. Deride them if you wish, but the tp was far more effective than Occupy in forcing change. I don't agree with the hardcore right baggage that comes with them, but I do acknowledge that they are effective in achieving their goals.

Of course they are effective: they are well financed, organized and led by seasoned political operatives. "Occupy" was just a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do.

When you deal with a group whose opinions you don't agree with, the worst thing you can do is dismiss them as irrational. Understand where they are coming from, and you're one step closer to striking a mutually palatable agreement. Like it or not, the tp isn't going away. You will have to deal with them - Obama has pretty much proven that insulting them just makes them more persistent.

About the only thing they stand for that I agree with is bringing the budget deficit under control - it was tp members that spearheaded the 2011 budget, the one that Obama stayed out of until it was almost too late.

The deficit IS under control; it is being reduced every year for the last four years. Somehow everyone keeps ignoring this little tibit of the fact. Dealing with budget is a job of the Congress. I guess he was still naive back then. Now he learned his lesson (I hope)

I also see the tp's hard line stance as a response to Obama's equally hard line stance. Neither will budge, so we have an impasse.

His hard stance is fully justified in this case: the party that lost elections should not be allowed to advance its agenda that was rejected by the majority of voters via appropriation. It is akin a hostage taking. The Law was passed and stood multiple legal challenges. It is the LAW. Negotiating budgetary lines is one thing but trying to over-write the Law thru de-funding it is entire different; trying to sabotage the Law by delaying implementation of its major component is similar to terrorism. It sets a VERY BAD precedent, which essentially gives an unchecked legislative power to a half of one of the three branches. It is a double edged sword and it will hurt GOP is they find themselves in similar position next time around. As much as I want to see this crisis end, I am with Obama on this one.

Obviously, if one agrees with Obama's direction, they believe the tp is wrong.

Being a pragmatist, I don't particularly agree with either. I do have great concern that this extremism is the very opposite of what the political process is all about - each side gives a bit and gets a bit, until both are at least mollified, if not satisfied.

Smoke filled back rooms are starting to look pretty good. At least agreements were hammered out in them.

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vadimraskin
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to john9001, 11 months ago

john9001 wrote:

The government borrows 40 cents of every dollars it spends, how long do you think that can go on? The tea party people were elected to end that, they have sent bill after bill to the senate and Reid has never brought them up for a vote.  This country has not had a budget for six years just "continuing resulalution", that allows the govt to keep spending more and more .

The govt is "printing" $85 billion a month with no plans to end it. Obama said he would Transform America, and he is on his way to do it.  But, transform america into what?  Another bankrupt socialist falure?

Does Tea Party has a Plan to put the country back into financial health? Does shutting down major employer and creating a "domino effect" on the economy is a part of this plan? Do they propose anything concrete or it is all "smoke and mirrors" while each member in the House is lining to the for "pork" distribution station?

Do they propose cutting military spending as drastically as the social programs? I don't think so because they are fed by the Big Defense Contractors, who would rather see old and poor people get hurt but preserve spending on all these stupid planes and rackets, which nobody needs!

Do you have an answer to that, John or Glenn Back did not put this in his "talking points"?

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Wheatfield
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to Roger99, 11 months ago

Roger99 wrote:

rb59020 wrote:

Huffingto Post

"Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday that if he were back in the White House, he would work with Republicans and Democrats to secure more funding for affordable housing and urge more flexibility in resolving differences involving the critical issue."

Do you really think the Tea Party nutters would be a part of that kind of strategy. They aren't looking for compromise. They are just out to humiliate the Obama Whitehouse. Nothing more, nothing less. Jimmy wasn't a bad old sod but didn't he learn anything from the Iranian thing. Try to do the right thing by the Republicans and they will steal your wallet while your back is turned.

"I would work as harmoniously as I could with other members of the Congress, and with both Democrats and Republicans, to figure out how we can face a time of great deficits."

They are not the same GOP as in Jimmies day. Give in to them and they will just find more ways to strangle the government.

Not exactly from the Obama playbook.

Obama is doing exactly the right thing. You don't negotiate with terrorists.

I never thought I would miss Ronnie Raygun. He'd be ashamed of the party he led if he saw it today.

Raygun would be branded a communist and would be chased out of the repulitard party today. This is how stupid the republitard party has become.

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to taintedcamera, 11 months ago

taintedcamera wrote:

rb59020 wrote:

Huffingto Post

"Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday that if he were back in the White House, he would work with Republicans and Democrats to secure more funding for affordable housing and urge more flexibility in resolving differences involving the critical issue."

"I would work as harmoniously as I could with other members of the Congress, and with both Democrats and Republicans, to figure out how we can face a time of great deficits."

Not exactly from the Obama playbook.

The Tea Party faction in Congress would eat Jimmy Carter alive. Now you know why Carter only served one term.

Carter served only one term because of the economic mess he caused for the American people. His efforts for the disassembly of the American military and those good paying civillian jobs, didn't help his chance for a second term.

I'm curious how any POTUS can create an "economic mess" much less within his first term? 
By that reasoning are we to blame W entirely for the 2008 meltdown?  That came well into his second term which must then mean it was his policies that derailed the markets and the economy.

Bob

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to Wheatfield, 11 months ago

Wheatfield wrote:

Roger99 wrote:

rb59020 wrote:

Huffingto Post

"Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday that if he were back in the White House, he would work with Republicans and Democrats to secure more funding for affordable housing and urge more flexibility in resolving differences involving the critical issue."

Do you really think the Tea Party nutters would be a part of that kind of strategy. They aren't looking for compromise. They are just out to humiliate the Obama Whitehouse. Nothing more, nothing less. Jimmy wasn't a bad old sod but didn't he learn anything from the Iranian thing. Try to do the right thing by the Republicans and they will steal your wallet while your back is turned.

"I would work as harmoniously as I could with other members of the Congress, and with both Democrats and Republicans, to figure out how we can face a time of great deficits."

They are not the same GOP as in Jimmies day. Give in to them and they will just find more ways to strangle the government.

Not exactly from the Obama playbook.

Obama is doing exactly the right thing. You don't negotiate with terrorists.

I never thought I would miss Ronnie Raygun. He'd be ashamed of the party he led if he saw it today.

Raygun would be branded a communist and would be chased out of the repulitard party today. This is how stupid the republitard party has become.

I agree.  A dysfunctional group of old white Christians and ignorant rednecks doing the bidding for the 1% thinking they can resurrect the America of the 50's and 60's.

Bob

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to lylejk, 11 months ago

lylejk wrote:

Carter's just finally greatful that he won't be remembered as the worse president ever now. He can now rest in peace.

True as that honor will remain with W for decades without doubt.

Bob

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to john9001, 11 months ago

john9001 wrote:

The government borrows 40 cents of every dollars it spends, how long do you think that can go on? The tea party people were elected to end that, they have sent bill after bill to the senate and Reid has never brought them up for a vote. This country has not had a budget for six years just "continuing resulalution", that allows the govt to keep spending more and more .

The govt is "printing" $85 billion a month with no plans to end it. Obama said he would Transform America, and he is on his way to do it. But, transform america into what? Another bankrupt socialist falure?

What "bankrupt socialist failures" might you be referring to?

Bob

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lylejk
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to rwbaron, 11 months ago

I didn't care about W that much either, but you obviously weren't born when Carter was potus.   JC was the worse thing to have ever happened to our country and I became a Republican solely because of him (no longer a Republican; just a conservative now).    BO's even worse the JC; trust me.   Let's just hope there's a cause like Housing for Humanity for BO when he gets out.   Then he too can be a better former potus then a potus.  

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to lylejk, 11 months ago

lylejk wrote:

I didn't care about W that much either, but you obviously weren't born when Carter was potus. JC was the worse thing to have ever happened to our country and I became a Republican solely because of him (no longer a Republican; just a conservative now). BO's even worse the JC; trust me. Let's just hope there's a cause like Housing for Humanity for BO when he gets out. Then he too can be a better former potus then a potus.

As usual I find your World more than a bit delusional.

BTW I'm 60.

Bob

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lylejk
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to rwbaron, 11 months ago

And yours absurd.   To each his own. 

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Roger99
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to rwbaron, 11 months ago

rwbaron wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Raygun would be branded a communist and would be chased out of the repulitard party today. This is how stupid the republitard party has become.

I agree. A dysfunctional group of old white Christians and ignorant rednecks doing the bidding for the 1% thinking they can resurrect the America of the 50's and 60's.

Bob

I don't think it is anything to do with resurrecting America.  I don't think they care about America at all except as a place to spend the petty cash.  This is all just about keeping the 1% as the 1%.  Any selling of American ideals is just about keeping the sheep baying in unison.

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rwbaron
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Re: I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...
In reply to Roger99, 11 months ago

Roger99 wrote:

rwbaron wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Raygun would be branded a communist and would be chased out of the repulitard party today. This is how stupid the republitard party has become.

I agree. A dysfunctional group of old white Christians and ignorant rednecks doing the bidding for the 1% thinking they can resurrect the America of the 50's and 60's.

Bob

I don't think it is anything to do with resurrecting America. I don't think they care about America at all except as a place to spend the petty cash. This is all just about keeping the 1% as the 1%. Any selling of American ideals is just about keeping the sheep baying in unison.

I don't disagree regarding the 1%.  It's the old white Christians and rednecks who think they're fighting for the America they once knew (or thought they knew) and that's part of how the 1% gets them to do their bidding.  Some see it as an effective strategy but I think it's backfiring and has the potential to fracture the Republican party into segments that will be less powerful and influential.  They'll keep a certain number of seats in the House through gerrymandered districts but will turn off Independents which ultimately will lose the majority position for them.  I believe the party elite and powerbrokers are deeply concerned about this.  They know they need a moderate position to stay in power.

Bob

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RBFresno
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Democrats predominate among those with no High School Diploma....
In reply to sensibill, 11 months ago

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

Overly simplistic R vs D :

Nice try, linking a far-right conservative blog with self-cooked numbers (that skew according to age, since 50+ older people are generally more likely to have graduated college than 18-29 year olds).

Here's factual data . AKA not from some teabagger freak.

From your source:

"high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates"

Those without High School diplomas more likely to be Democrats

I stand by my statement and you've provided nothing to the contrary::

-Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

-.and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

the 10 poorest cities are longtime Democratic strongholds—

and the data that liberals will be more inclined to cite—that the 10 poorest states are predominantly Republican, is that conservatives can point to actual policies that Democrats implemented that contributed to the impoverishment of the cities, while the liberals cannot point to specific GOP policies that have caused the poorer states to lag behind.

RB

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Don_D
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Re: Democrats predominate among those with no High School Diploma....
In reply to RBFresno, 11 months ago

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

Overly simplistic R vs D :

Nice try, linking a far-right conservative blog with self-cooked numbers (that skew according to age, since 50+ older people are generally more likely to have graduated college than 18-29 year olds).

Here's factual data . AKA not from some teabagger freak.

From your source:

"high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates"

Those without High School diplomas more likely to be Democrats

I stand by my statement and you've provided nothing to the contrary::

-Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

-.and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

the 10 poorest cities are longtime Democratic strongholds—

and the data that liberals will be more inclined to cite—that the 10 poorest states are predominantly Republican, is that conservatives can point to actual policies that Democrats implemented

This "Curly Effect" is bullsht. It has it backwards. The aid to the poor is a result of them becoming poor and is not the cause of them being poor. In my opinion, it has cause and effect mixed up.

You Op Ed piece is just that, an opinion, not a fact.

that contributed to the impoverishment of the cities, while the liberals cannot point to specific GOP policies that have caused the poorer states to lag behind.

Well the GOP has "trickle down" economics and we all know that that's a sham.

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RBFresno
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Re: Democrats predominate among those with no High School Diploma....
In reply to Don_D, 11 months ago

Don_D wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

Overly simplistic R vs D :

Nice try, linking a far-right conservative blog with self-cooked numbers (that skew according to age, since 50+ older people are generally more likely to have graduated college than 18-29 year olds).

Here's factual data . AKA not from some teabagger freak.

From your source:

"high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates"

Those without High School diplomas more likely to be Democrats

I stand by my statement and you've provided nothing to the contrary::

-Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

-.and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

the 10 poorest cities are longtime Democratic strongholds—

So no argument with the above  facts....

and the data that liberals will be more inclined to cite—that the 10 poorest states are predominantly Republican, is that conservatives can point to actual policies that Democrats implemented

This "Curly Effect" is bullsht. It has it backwards. The aid to the poor is a result of them becoming poor and is not the cause of them being poor. In my opinion, it has cause and effect mixed up.

You Op Ed piece is just that, an opinion, not a fact.

that contributed to the impoverishment of the cities, while the liberals cannot point to specific GOP policies that have caused the poorer states to lag behind.

Well the GOP has "trickle down" economics and we all know that that's a sham.

My bad I guess. The Republican leadership and policies are at the heart of the state of affairs in Detroit  and Buffalo.

RB

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Don_D
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Re: Democrats predominate among those with no High School Diploma....
In reply to RBFresno, 11 months ago

RBFresno wrote:

Don_D wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

Overly simplistic R vs D :

Nice try, linking a far-right conservative blog with self-cooked numbers (that skew according to age, since 50+ older people are generally more likely to have graduated college than 18-29 year olds).

Here's factual data . AKA not from some teabagger freak.

From your source:

"high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates"

Those without High School diplomas more likely to be Democrats

I stand by my statement and you've provided nothing to the contrary::

-Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

-.and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

the 10 poorest cities are longtime Democratic strongholds—

So no argument with the above facts....

and the data that liberals will be more inclined to cite—that the 10 poorest states are predominantly Republican, is that conservatives can point to actual policies that Democrats implemented

This "Curly Effect" is bullsht. It has it backwards. The aid to the poor is a result of them becoming poor and is not the cause of them being poor. In my opinion, it has cause and effect mixed up.

You Op Ed piece is just that, an opinion, not a fact.

that contributed to the impoverishment of the cities, while the liberals cannot point to specific GOP policies that have caused the poorer states to lag behind.

Well the GOP has "trickle down" economics and we all know that that's a sham.

My bad I guess. The Republican leadership and policies are at the heart of the state of affairs in Detroit and Buffalo.

I don't think so.

IMHO and despite what they think, much of the time politicians have little effect on the fortunes of people or places like Detroit and Buffalo.  Especially US politicians.

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Re: You are confused, you mean the Tea Party
In reply to RBFresno, 11 months ago

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

I might have agreed with your last statement 25 years ago but today I believe the Republicans have the least educated voter market cornered.  Most people I speak with about politics that vote Republican demonstrate quite clearly that they have no interest in understanding the facts and vote only with their heart, by habit or by preconceived notions.  Certainly many Democrats do the same but the Dem's I discuss politics with are much better informed on the issues and are less "me" and much more "we" in their views meaning what's not best for me but for the country.

I now see the Republican voter as me, myself and I.

Bob

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RBFresno
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Re: You are confused, you mean the Tea Party
In reply to rwbaron, 11 months ago

rwbaron wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Yep, the Tea Party have made quite a name for themselves and are now considered the dumbest people in government.

There's a lot of competition for that title......

SO VERY TRUE. Palin, Bachmann, Dubya, Perry, Cain, Akin, hell - you name it. It's a cast of thousands. Listing them off would take forever, like the endless parade of clowns out of the little car at the circus.

They won't even listen to the private sector anymore...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wall-street-tea-party-butt-heads-government-shutdown/story?id=20520136

Yes. The smartest people would define stupidity, by how little a politician is influenced by a part of the the private business sector, and how the media reports on it.

The best educated states are overwhelmingly Democrat. The poorest and least educated overwhelmingly Republican. Oldest and least educated Americans are most likely to be Conservative. Is this a pattern emerging..? HMM.

Overall, the best educated individuals tend to vote Democrat...

...and the least educated individuals also tend to vote Democrat:

I might have agreed with your last statement 25 years ago but today I believe the Republicans have the least educated voter market cornered. Most people I speak with about politics that vote Republican demonstrate quite clearly that they have no interest in understanding the facts and vote only with their heart, by habit or by preconceived notions. Certainly many Democrats do the same but the Dem's I discuss politics with are much better informed on the issues and are less "me" and much more "we" in their views meaning what's not best for me but for the country.

I now see the Republican voter as me, myself and I.

Bob

Hi Bob.

I agree with the data that, as a whole, more educated folks tend to be  democrat.

I was specifically referring to the folks who are not high school graduates, who are also predominately democrat. I've not seen convincing data to the contrary.

I doubt if the Democrats that you refer to as being better informed, are mostly high school drop outs:

Obama Voters Underdstand the issues.

Howard Stern Interviews 2012 voters

Obama Supporters Don't support Obama's Policies when told they are Romney's Policies.

DC Obama Supporters

In all fairness, there are plenty of Republican's who are ill informed.

Romney Supporter speaks from her chest....err heart.

Voters at Romney Rally

And then there's the independent voter:

An Independent votes Republican

But for someone to blanket state that either Democrat or Republican voters are better informed  or educated is overly simplistic propaganda, and as such, deserves a dissenting comment.

RB

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