the cost of the ACA

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edwardaneal
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the cost of the ACA
10 months ago
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Chato
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Gov. actuaries say ObamaCare will increase health care spending by $621 billion over next 10 years

The CBO states that Romney Care will actually reduce the deficit. It's not how much is spent, but how much is saved that is relevant.

Fact Checking The deficit and Romney Care

Dave

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Lee Jay
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It's a Fox News article - what would you expect
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Gov. actuaries say ObamaCare will increase health care spending by $621 billion over next 10 years

First of all, Fox couldn't find the truth with both hands.

Second, these are just predictions, and like the weather, accurate predictions over a long term are nothing but luck.

Third, did you do the math?

That works out to $16 a month per person.  Even if it turns out to be true (which it won't), that's an awfully small price to pay for millions more people having health insurance and millions more than that having better health insurance.

Yeah, the ACA doesn't go far enough, but it's at least a baby step in the right direction.  And the moronic Republicans don't even want that to happen.  They'd rather keep tens of millions of people without access to healthcare.

What ever happened to "compassionate conservatism" anyway?

Why anyone, anywhere, watches or reads anything produced by Fox News is beyond me.  A great many works of fiction have more truth in them than does Fox News' so-called "journalism" (pandering to the low-IQ conservatives in the country).

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lownine
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Gov. actuaries say ObamaCare will increase health care spending by $621 billion over next 10 years

The CBO states that Romney Care will actually reduce the deficit. It's not how much is spent, but how much is saved that is relevant.

Fact Checking The deficit and Romney Care

Dave

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It is interesting that the hostile reaction to ending the new tax on medical equipment and devices was due to the need for that tax to fund the ACA. Immediately, the perpetual motion machine sprang to mind.

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Chato
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The CBO states flat out
In reply to Lee Jay, 10 months ago

ljfinger wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

Gov. actuaries say ObamaCare will increase health care spending by $621 billion over next 10 years

First of all, Fox couldn't find the truth with both hands.

Second, these are just predictions, and like the weather, accurate predictions over a long term are nothing but luck.

Third, did you do the math?

That works out to $16 a month per person. Even if it turns out to be true (which it won't), that's an awfully small price to pay for millions more people having health insurance and millions more than that having better health insurance.

Yeah, the ACA doesn't go far enough, but it's at least a baby step in the right direction. And the moronic Republicans don't even want that to happen. They'd rather keep tens of millions of people without access to healthcare.

What ever happened to "compassionate conservatism" anyway?

Why anyone, anywhere, watches or reads anything produced by Fox News is beyond me. A great many works of fiction have more truth in them than does Fox News' so-called "journalism" (pandering to the low-IQ conservatives in the country).

That Romney Care will reduce the deficit. That repealing it will ADD to the deficit.

Fact Checking Romney Care

Dave

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Lee Jay
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Re: The CBO states flat out
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

Chato wrote:

That Romney Care will reduce the deficit. That repealing it will ADD to the deficit.

Fact Checking Romney Care

Government spending on healthcare is not the same as total spending on healthcare, and spending on healthcare could rise as the deficit falls because of additional revenue.  So both could be true.

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rb59020
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

Gee Dave, in another thread you were bad mouthing the CBO, and now you trust them? Which is it?

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Chato
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to rb59020, 10 months ago

rb59020 wrote:

Gee Dave, in another thread you were bad mouthing the CBO, and now you trust them? Which is it?

Actually I have never in my life bad mouthed the CBO, even when their calculations differ from mine. You simply have a hard time dealing with sarcasm. And your posts inspire me to sarcasm.

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lownine
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

rb59020 wrote:

Gee Dave, in another thread you were bad mouthing the CBO, and now you trust them? Which is it?

Actually I have never in my life bad mouthed the CBO, even when their calculations differ from mine. You simply have a hard time dealing with sarcasm. And your posts inspire me to sarcasm.

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"...differ from mine." Now THAT was inspired.

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Chato
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Heh, he, he
In reply to lownine, 10 months ago

lownine wrote:

rb59020 wrote:

Gee Dave, in another thread you were bad mouthing the CBO, and now you trust them? Which is it?

Actually I have never in my life bad mouthed the CBO, even when their calculations differ from mine. You simply have a hard time dealing with sarcasm. And your posts inspire me to sarcasm.

Dave

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"...differ from mine." Now THAT was inspired.

The Republicans cite the CBO and the Democrats cite the CBO, and each accuse the CBO of cooking the books...

I never think they cook the books...

Dave

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edwardaneal
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one thing thats fact
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

In the past many people used medical savings plans / 125 plans provided by their employer to cover the cost of deductibles and other out of pocket medical expenses not covered by insurance.

prior to 2013 an employee could contribute as much as they wanted to these plans with pre tax dollars and then use these pre tax dollars when needed for medical costs

effective 1/1/2013 the ACA capped the amount an employee can contribute annually to one of these plans at $2,500

so now if your out of pocket costs and deductibles exceed 2500 dollars you no longer can pay these costs with pre tax dollars

considering the fact that the lowest cost plans are the ones with the highest deductibles and also the ones with the highest out of pocket expenses this directly impacts those employees who make the least and needed the medical savings plan the most

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Chato
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Re: one thing thats fact
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

In the past many people used medical savings plans / 125 plans provided by their employer to cover the cost of deductibles and other out of pocket medical expenses not covered by insurance.

prior to 2013 an employee could contribute as much as they wanted to these plans with pre tax dollars and then use these pre tax dollars when needed for medical costs

effective 1/1/2013 the ACA capped the amount an employee can contribute annually to one of these plans at $2,500

so now if your out of pocket costs and deductibles exceed 2500 dollars you no longer can pay these costs with pre tax dollars

considering the fact that the lowest cost plans are the ones with the highest deductibles and also the ones with the highest out of pocket expenses this directly impacts those employees who make the least and needed the medical savings plan the most

But even the cheapest plan offered under Romney Care caps your out of pocket expenses at 6K. So if you need a heart transplant the maximum that it can cost is 6K, even if it's "Bronze" Plan.

Dave

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rb59020
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Re: the cost of the ACA
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

Sorry Ed, not according to this.

$1.363 trillion as of May 2013, an increase of 1% a month since February 2013. By this time next year, one year since it started, will projections be at 1.6 trillion?

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edwardaneal
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didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to Chato, 10 months ago

Chato wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

In the past many people used medical savings plans / 125 plans provided by their employer to cover the cost of deductibles and other out of pocket medical expenses not covered by insurance.

prior to 2013 an employee could contribute as much as they wanted to these plans with pre tax dollars and then use these pre tax dollars when needed for medical costs

effective 1/1/2013 the ACA capped the amount an employee can contribute annually to one of these plans at $2,500

so now if your out of pocket costs and deductibles exceed 2500 dollars you no longer can pay these costs with pre tax dollars

considering the fact that the lowest cost plans are the ones with the highest deductibles and also the ones with the highest out of pocket expenses this directly impacts those employees who make the least and needed the medical savings plan the most

But even the cheapest plan offered under Romney Care caps your out of pocket expenses at 6K. So if you need a heart transplant the maximum that it can cost is 6K, even if it's "Bronze" Plan.

Obama delayed the out of pocket caps to 2015?

what about the poor guy who isnt smart enough to delay their heart attack until after they really enforce the cap?

out of pocket cap delayed

Dave

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edwardaneal
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Chato wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

In the past many people used medical savings plans / 125 plans provided by their employer to cover the cost of deductibles and other out of pocket medical expenses not covered by insurance.

prior to 2013 an employee could contribute as much as they wanted to these plans with pre tax dollars and then use these pre tax dollars when needed for medical costs

effective 1/1/2013 the ACA capped the amount an employee can contribute annually to one of these plans at $2,500

so now if your out of pocket costs and deductibles exceed 2500 dollars you no longer can pay these costs with pre tax dollars

considering the fact that the lowest cost plans are the ones with the highest deductibles and also the ones with the highest out of pocket expenses this directly impacts those employees who make the least and needed the medical savings plan the most

But even the cheapest plan offered under Romney Care caps your out of pocket expenses at 6K. So if you need a heart transplant the maximum that it can cost is 6K, even if it's "Bronze" Plan.

Obama delayed the out of pocket caps to 2015?

what about the poor guy who isnt smart enough to delay their heart attack until after they really enforce the cap?

out of pocket cap delayed

oh and as a side note 6k is a great deal of money to a guy who works at walmart and I am sure they would much rather be able to pay that with pre tax dollars like they could have before the ACA

Dave

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Lee Jay
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

Learn to think.

Do you think he'd rather pay 6k after tax or 250k because he doesn't get insurance from Walmart? Or maybe he'd rather just die because he has no insurance and can't afford treatment.
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

Chato wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

In the past many people used medical savings plans / 125 plans provided by their employer to cover the cost of deductibles and other out of pocket medical expenses not covered by insurance.

prior to 2013 an employee could contribute as much as they wanted to these plans with pre tax dollars and then use these pre tax dollars when needed for medical costs

effective 1/1/2013 the ACA capped the amount an employee can contribute annually to one of these plans at $2,500

so now if your out of pocket costs and deductibles exceed 2500 dollars you no longer can pay these costs with pre tax dollars

considering the fact that the lowest cost plans are the ones with the highest deductibles and also the ones with the highest out of pocket expenses this directly impacts those employees who make the least and needed the medical savings plan the most

But even the cheapest plan offered under Romney Care caps your out of pocket expenses at 6K. So if you need a heart transplant the maximum that it can cost is 6K, even if it's "Bronze" Plan.

Obama delayed the out of pocket caps to 2015?

what about the poor guy who isnt smart enough to delay their heart attack until after they really enforce the cap?

out of pocket cap delayed

oh and as a side note 6k is a great deal of money to a guy who works at walmart and I am sure they would much rather be able to pay that with pre tax dollars like they could have before the ACA

Well, if he worked at Walmart and had a heart attack chances are good that he wouldn't have had any insurance coverage prior to the ACA.  In that case he either mortgaged his and his families future (if he was upstanding), died or did what most do which is to just visit the closest ER where they would most likely not turn him away and perform the necessary surgery.  The hospital would then spread the cost among those of us with insurance forcing the insured to pay for his procedure through higher premiums.  Tell me how that is fair and how that demonstrates the "personal responsibility" that so many Republicans like to preach.

Seems to me that in this case $6K, though probably a lot of money for a Walmart worker, would be a bargain to both him and those of us responsible enough to carry health insurance.

Bob

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rwbaron
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to Lee Jay, 10 months ago

ljfinger wrote:

Learn to think.

Do you think he'd rather pay 6k after tax or 250k because he doesn't get insurance from Walmart? Or maybe he'd rather just die because he has no insurance and can't afford treatment.
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We are on the same page on this one but you're quicker to post

Bob

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edwardaneal
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to Lee Jay, 10 months ago

ljfinger wrote:

Learn to think.

Do you think he'd rather pay 6k after tax or 250k because he doesn't get insurance from Walmart? Or maybe he'd rather just die because he has no insurance and can't afford treatment.

walmart offers health insurance to their employees only the uninformed think they dont

fact is before the ACA these low income people who knew they would have medical expenses, you know the type, those with existing conditions - they could put money, whatever they needed, into the 125 plan of their employer and then not have to pay taxes on that money when they used it to cover those expenses - - now they only get 2500 - - - -why? because the administration found a way to make more money taxable, money that isnt even slated to cover the cost of obamacare - this new cap just increases the taxes coming in as income tax

from this link - walmart

"Walmart offers competitive pay and benefits, including health care plans, education assistance, retirement plans, and training and development opportunities.

  • We offer hourly store associates quarterly cash bonus opportunities, a health care plan that starts at $17 per pay period, a 401k plan with a company match, a 10% discount on merchandise, and, most of all, a chance to move up through the ranks."
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Lee Jay
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Re: didnt you hear Dave?
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

You really are slow. I used your example of employer. And Walmart does not offer health insurance to all their employees, just some.

Regardless you missed the point as usual. Something like 40 million more people will have insurance that had none before. Of course the Republicans oppose that with everything they have and are willing to destroy the country to keep these people from getting insurance.
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