Making a superzoom for a compact is easy, but for a DSLR, it's hard?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Leandros S
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Re: Superzooms can be very sharp...
In reply to glasswave, 9 months ago

glasswave wrote:

Leandros S wrote:

People say that interchangeable superzoom ("travel") lenses can't manage good sharpness, yet superzoom compacts do just fine in terms of sharpness. Why is that?

But they require very bright light and need to be stopped down a bit to get the most out of them.

Don't think of them as a Jack of all trades lens, think of them as a specialty lens, made for situations when changing lenses is not very feasible due to poor environment (ie: mountaineering), fast changing action (a mix of wildlife and landscapes in variable light), danger from others (a political protest in a developing country) etc...

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There is simply too much beauty in the world to photograph it all, but I'm trying.

Those are exactly the reasons why that kind of lens would appeal to me and others that I know. Thanks.

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Leandros S
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Not all DSLR lenses have a rotating front element
In reply to weezy, 9 months ago

weezy wrote:

So why do lenses for DSLRs rotate, and the bridge camera superzooms don't?

Only some DSLR lenses have a rotating front element. The preferred design is to have it non-rotating, and afaik there are no premium lenses with a rotating front element.

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Leandros S
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Re: the easy explanation
In reply to OpticsEngineer, 9 months ago

OpticsEngineer wrote:

"Optical designers could give you a more complex answer, but the simplest way to visualize it is that a lens is a curved surface. The bigger the lens, the more the surface has to curve."

That pretty much is it. And rays out on those more curved areas suffer a lot more spherical aberration. So then you have to use additional elements or aspherical elements to correct that.

Transverse spherical aberration increases as a cubic power with lens diameter. Which means lens designs just fall apart when you increase the diameter. It often comes up with question like, "Your 20 mm diameter design is really good, can we increase that to 30 mm, that isn't a big change is it?" But usually it is a huge change.

Thanks for answering the original question. I didn't realise that there was a power law behind it all. If I had set this up as a question, I would now mark yours as the answer. Cheers!

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Kodachrome200
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Re: Making a superzoom for a compact is easy, but for a DSLR, it's hard?
In reply to Leandros S, 9 months ago

super zooms for compacts are even worse just nodbody using a compact notices. an aps c sensor top of the line super zoom  will in general be better  but the user is more demanding

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Mike CH
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Not quite...
In reply to Leandros S, 9 months ago

Leandros S wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

OK, now you can tell me why I'm wrong.

You are the one who thinks he's got all the answers.

He's got the best answers you have gotten so far....

I'm just asking a question and pointing out when the answer doesn't seem to make sense.

They don't make sense to you. The answers as such make quite a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense are your assumptions about how it ought to work.

That's the only way I know for getting to the bottom of an issue.

Take option two instead. Believe what multiple people are telling you.

Regards, Mike

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Wait and see...

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MoreorLess
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Re: Doubtful that glass cost is the issue
In reply to Leandros S, 9 months ago

Leandros S wrote:

As John1940 points out, you can get zoom lenses with a lot of glass in them for a very affordable price. So I don't think the production of lens elements actually enters into the original question in a big way.

Well your simply wrong about that as many others have pointed out, you've had your answer, if you want to gain say what everyone is telling you then carry on living in ignorance I suppose.

Even looking at the samples as a DSLR user and owner of some reasonably good lenses, I can see that, say, the SX50 doesn't have major problems with sharpness or aberration. I think the Fujifilm X-S1 was the last superzoom bridge camera that some people said was a bit soft (with the exception of the HX300V, which presumably slightly outresolves its lens - forgivable given the 20MP resolution).

I think that's very telling, the X-S1 both had a larger sensor to build a lens for and was priced more highly meaning expectations were that much greater.

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Leandros S
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Re: Doubtful that glass cost is the issue
In reply to MoreorLess, 9 months ago

MoreorLess wrote:

Leandros S wrote:

As John1940 points out, you can get zoom lenses with a lot of glass in them for a very affordable price. So I don't think the production of lens elements actually enters into the original question in a big way.

Well your simply wrong about that as many others have pointed out, you've had your answer, if you want to gain say what everyone is telling you then carry on living in ignorance I suppose.

Even looking at the samples as a DSLR user and owner of some reasonably good lenses, I can see that, say, the SX50 doesn't have major problems with sharpness or aberration. I think the Fujifilm X-S1 was the last superzoom bridge camera that some people said was a bit soft (with the exception of the HX300V, which presumably slightly outresolves its lens - forgivable given the 20MP resolution).

I think that's very telling, the X-S1 both had a larger sensor to build a lens for and was priced more highly meaning expectations were that much greater.

The truth is that a whole bunch of you were simply wrong about it. It's not that glass is difficult or costly to produce, it's the physics of how a large lens behaves compared to a small one. See the post by Optics Engineer.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Understanding demand curves
In reply to John1940, 9 months ago

John1940 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Leandros S wrote:

headfirst wrote:

the CN-E30-300mm is a professional video/cine lens - high quality, high R&D/tooling cost & very low production nos. to recover it.

That explanation is backwards and doesn't satisfy. How many SLR users do we think actually enjoy changing lenses? I certainly don't.

Speaking for self and among the lenses I own, I prefer carrying:

8mm f/2.8, 16-50mm f/2.8, 70mm f/2.8, 135mm f/2.8, 200mm f/2.8

Great lenses but surely not fun to carry around on long trips overseas! They would not even fit in most hotel or ship cabin safes. It's a tough trade off but I usually take a Canon 600D, a Sigma 10-20mm, a Sigma 18-200mm, and a Canon 60mm macro f/2.8. Plus my wife's G15 P&S. And her tablet. For the 600D the 18-200 has the worst IQ of the three but is used the most.

You're telling a person who DOES travel with these lenses, along with the one-lens solution (largely because the one-lens solution comes with its own issues). The two camera bodies (Sony A55, Sony NEX-3) and these lenses fit in a sling bag with room to spare but when traveling overseas, I generally carry my backpack, which also has room for extra clothing and a notebook).

And there's a reason for that: I prefer ILCs and would NEVER complain about having to change lenses... it is the reason I bought ILCs!

I might go for the Canon 15-85 at some point with the same 600D or (maybe) a 70D. The 15-85 might go wide enough for my travel uses but I'd need more telephoto, which requires a second lens. And, I might leave the macro at home.

The main place I'd really like a FF DSLR and high quality lenses is here at home. We've spent a lot of time and money this year on making our house and (especially) its surroundings (on 25 acres) look nicer. But APS-C is better for our type of travel. FF stuff is just too much of an issue size-wise. I still have three film SLRs that I lugged around for years.

Over:

18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 35 mm slrs and bigger lenses that I lugged aroung to many countries.

The first set covers 24mm-300mm at f/2.8. The second covers 28-375mm at f/3.5-6.3. Only on occasions when I don't mind compromising quality for convenience of one-lens solution, and am assured of good lighting, I pick the latter.

And even on occasions I might prefer one-lens solution, I have started to take two bodies. I carry Sony A55 with Sony 16-50mm f/2.8 SSM as my kit lens, and have Minolta 70-210mm f/4 as my telephoto zoom on Sony NEX-3, good for 24mm-320mm f/2.8-4, a more versatile solution than 28-375mm f/3.5-6.3.

John1940

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Doubtful that glass cost is the issue
In reply to Leandros S, 9 months ago

Leandros S wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

Leandros S wrote:

As John1940 points out, you can get zoom lenses with a lot of glass in them for a very affordable price. So I don't think the production of lens elements actually enters into the original question in a big way.

Well your simply wrong about that as many others have pointed out, you've had your answer, if you want to gain say what everyone is telling you then carry on living in ignorance I suppose.

Even looking at the samples as a DSLR user and owner of some reasonably good lenses, I can see that, say, the SX50 doesn't have major problems with sharpness or aberration. I think the Fujifilm X-S1 was the last superzoom bridge camera that some people said was a bit soft (with the exception of the HX300V, which presumably slightly outresolves its lens - forgivable given the 20MP resolution).

I think that's very telling, the X-S1 both had a larger sensor to build a lens for and was priced more highly meaning expectations were that much greater.

The truth is that a whole bunch of you were simply wrong about it. It's not that glass is difficult or costly to produce, it's the physics of how a large lens behaves compared to a small one. See the post by Optics Engineer.

Okay, couple of questions:

1- Why do you think there aren't or can't be super zoom lenses for ILCs?

2- What do you think are typical issues related to a super zoom lens (the cons)? Or, do you believe that designing a 15x lens to match the qualities of a 3x to match the qualities of a prime lens as being equal?

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headfirst
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Re: Understanding demand curves
In reply to Leandros S, 9 months ago

bear in mind that these ~28-300 are genuinely 28-300mm lenses.

The superzooms in compacts are generally something like 5m - 55mm with an equivalent field of view to that of a 28-300mm on a 35mm sensor. Th compacts also all pretty much do image processing to correct faults inherent in them (this is now starting to become a trend for ILCs too - it results in cheaper lenses rather than those that are optically correct to start with).

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