I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...

Started 10 months ago | Polls
Peadingle
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Re: controls are very important, but also AF, EVF and swivel LCD
In reply to mathOS, 10 months ago

Me too! Pentax could have had a sale for the K-3 but they still don't want to come into the 21st century so my 30 year association with that brand doesn't look like continuing.

Weather-proofing is a nice idea but I use my EX1 in all weathers without any problem. And the articulating screen is far more useful. Take note Samsung - fully articulating. Don't go to tilt only on the NX30. At least not unless you can show me how to take a portrait format shot from the waist with a tilting screen.

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tecnoworld
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Re: controls are very important, but also AF, EVF and swivel LCD
In reply to Peadingle, 10 months ago

The k3 is actually a brilliant dslr camera. If I were interested in that kind of camera, the k3 would be my choice over any nikon, sony or canon. Unfortunately it's way too bulky for my tastes, but the first producer making an aps-c mirrorless with features similar to k3, plus a swivel/tild touch screen and a gorgeous evf will get a lot of love by me and by many.

I - of course - hope this is Samsung with a next gen nx.

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targut
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Re: controls are very important, but also AF, EVF and swivel LCD
In reply to Arn, 10 months ago

Arn wrote:

So, what the NX30 needs to be is basically the NX20 with improvements in:

  • updated sensor
  • improved (phase detetction) AF
  • improved EVF (diopter adj.)

and definitely keep the fantastic tilt and swivel LCD.

+100

For proper manual focus we need focus peaking and distance scale (this is not hard to do and is a must for any photographer, especially landscape photography.

I have NX300 and it shows a distance scale with the 60mm macro but not with other lenses. It seems to be dependent on the lens. The distance scale is already implemented in the camera.

Oh, almost forgot: the fast zooms (for example a 16-50/2.8) and telezooms (70-300) need to be announced along with the camera!

Indeed.

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NewForce
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Re: You should switch
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

tecnoworld,

Ah.. I see, you've already have a perfect camera in mind. If I were in your shoe, I'll make a switch. I will not live by with a camera system where I am unhappy about, where I'll be expressing my dislike about it everyday.

But don't jump on Pentax wagon yet, you'll be more disappointed than what you have already experienced with Samsung. I'm not saying Pentax was bad, it is good in actual. But the problem is most of camera enthusiasts (including all my camera club friends), for the past 20-25 years, some would only uses a Pentax camera for a short while and they quickly switched to Canon, Nikon or Olympus. If I recalled well, the more recent guy about 1.5 years ago, bought a brand new Pentax just for 3 months and has decided to switched to Canon DSLR. Why? As Pentax users definitely don't enjoy the same luxury of brand recognition and Pro-feel among friends or in the public. The End!

Anyway, I think I can understand your pain given you've already invested quite a amount of Samsung NX lenses. But I've think you make a wrong decision to invest into Samsung NX camera, which you did not see what's coming ahead. In this regards, I have totally different piece of mind when picking up Samsung NX300 camera.

I'd saw Samsung growing interest in camera system when they released Android based Galaxy Camera. Then I look up for their history to evaluate what they had done in the past, including they team up with Pentax and Rollei, the NX camera line and their lenses IQ and the price they are selling them. I've even predicted Galaxy NX DSLM camera is coming after Galaxy Camera showed up in the news. All Samsung moves was so innovative and promising as oppose to "traditional camera makers", so there was the time when I finally decided to invest more into Samsung NX camera system. I have experienced and owned enough "traditional camera & lenses" it is time for me to move on to something new.

There you go, Samsung are not a traditional camera maker. And I've choosed to believe that Samsung camera business style was largely base on their huge Smarter Smartphones customer. So I can imagine they going to release bigger chunk of newer model camera with newer approach where by not in the direction of being just another "old traditional camera, where that market keep shrinking each and every year goes by".

And if you look around what was happening among the Japs camera makers, they're actually struggling very hard to survive, except for the Oly top executives, they try hard to cheat money with lower cost camera that selling at high price and also through business fraud.

Last but not least, your continuious in claiming that there's a weak point in current Sasmung NX camera system may not be valid for others. All cameras in this world have weak points, including the latest Nikon D610, Canon 70D, Pentax K-3 and many more.

Also, with your very small scale of polling results, it did not hold up as a true result. I also believed that there's many DPR ppl did not wanted to participate in something that they have no interest at all. And that was just DPR Samsung talk alone, without the rest of the world and ppl in different languages.

Or maybe you want to try start similar polling thread in all DPR camera brand talk. Only by then, your polling result might hold more concrete evident to which camera that most DPR camera enthusiasts prefer.

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Kenny

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tecnoworld
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Re: You should switch
In reply to NewForce, 10 months ago

I think you don't actually understand my point of view, otherwise you wouldn't be continuously giving me the advice to switch.

I'd switch if there were a camera with everything I want. I'd do that even if I have an investment in a system that can't sell on second hand market, like NX.

The fact is, I repeat this, that NO CAMERA has all the options I'd like.

NX300 is very good, so I'm not talking bad of your beloved camera, simply it's not perfect. Is it bad trying to have Samsung to improve it? You seem scared that Samsung could do something to improve this camera...why?

As to Galaxy NX, it's a huge wrong step and you'll see this in few months, when the price will drop by 50% or more, after almost nobody bought it.

Why? Simply because there does not exist a market for such a frankenstein product and probably will never exist (I mean for that specific product, with its huge limits and not for a camera with a computer inside). I remember an article here on DPR talking about odd cameras of the past (that were innovative, in some ways, but didn't sell well and remained a dead end). Well, I bet whatever you want that a camera of this kind w/o physical controls, will be in that list.

And more: I'm afraid. Why? Since Samsung was on the right track with NX100 (very nice camera, with optional EVF) and NX300 (even if they did the very wrong move of getting rid of optional EVF). If they get a totally different route, the NX line will soon disappear.

Last. You say that the poll got few answers. Right! But it's the NX system that gets few interest by many and is hated by many. Why? For samsung behaviour. It does not listen to users, it goes straight in doing what they think is right even when the market proves against it.

The NX could have been #1 mirrorless system if there were a good traditional camera with a very good EVF. The nx20 was as slow as a turtle and NX300 that's noticeably faster and better featured does not have an optional EVF. I bought the NX300 since I already had a lot of lenses, and I didn't like the nx200 (while I liked the nx100 very much).

As said I won't buy a nx400 or nx30, if it does not solve the tiny buffer issue and does not implement a gorgeous EVF in it.

p.s.: you advise to switch. Please advise also towards which system, giving the same features of NX300 + EVF + huge buffer + same primes and pancakes. Thanks.

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shark81
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Re: You should switch
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

I think what Kenny means is that you are spending WAY too much time bashing a good camera, and it's not getting you anywhere.  Maybe you should focus on what is AVAILABLE as opposed to what could potentially be available.  Otherwise you will never be satisfied in the camera world, or in any world for that matter.

Most likely an NX30 will be released by springtime... announced by January.  Unlikely an NX400 will have an EVF... although I could be wrong.

Other brands seem to have everything you would want.  You'd probably love the NEX6.  M43 IQ with new Sony Sensors is on par with NX300 IQ and quick.  You'd probably like the GX7.  You should go check them out at the stores.  All this fuss and worry is probably worth the price at this point of switching.

Pancakes are available with these brands too (more with M43), albeit a little more pricey.

So your choice at this point is to enjoy what you have and have a little patience with Samsung, or switch now.

I'd suggest waiting it out until January.  If Samsung has nothing on the horizon by the time the consumer electronics show comes then it's safe to switch.  NX300 was introduced at this show last year.  Of course others will continue to come out with stuff by then as well.  Give yourself a deadline and save up.  Until then try to enjoy what you have.

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tecnoworld
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Re: You should switch
In reply to shark81, 10 months ago

Thx for your kimd suggestion, but I am actually enjoying it and using it almost every day. I spent months praising the qualities of nx300, just read my posts. I even posted on other forums in defense of nx300 when most were attacking it.

I can't see what's wrong in saying what I think it can be improved, hoping that samsung reads the suggestions.

Btw, m4/3 is not as good as aps-c in many ways. If you want the same dof you have to spend more than twice in lenses.

Nex6 is indeed very good, but does not have the touch features of nx300 and I don't like the native sony lenses. Besides pancakes are generally bad and primes are big.

So it's easier to fix the tiny buffer of nx300 and put a decent evf on a future nx30, rather reingeneering those other systems, don't you think?

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shark81
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Re: You should switch
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

It is clear you like the Samsung system in general due to best touch screen, best wifi, best interface and most bang for your buck on body and lens.  That's why anyone in here chooses Samsung.  IQ alone is very impressive for me as well.  Switching to another camera after NX300 proves to be difficult when you are spoiled by the modern features.  I particularly like just being able to send a JPG to facebook straight from the camera.

If you sell your stuff you will lose money, so you have a point to be concerned about switching.  I am wondering if NEX6 still might be a good tradeoff for you... it has your two biggest gripes the NX300 lacks... EVF and fast buffer.  Tradeoff is losing touch screen (which may be a good thing as you don't want your face touching a screen and messing up your settings).  So for me I see the one negative is in lenses... and maybe autofocus.  I'd recommend playing with one for a while. It does feel great in my hand and one of the best EVF's out there.  I might have gotten one, but just above my budget on a camera and system.

As I mentioned at the beginning Samsung=best bang for your dollar.  I would personally hold out until CES in January, but I would like to point out the NEX6 checks almost all your boxes...

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to say M43 is bad as far as IQ.  Olympus has OIS built into their camera bodies. EM1 has built in wifi too and the touchscreen you desire.  To me this checks all your boxes other than price and sensor size.  GX7 could be great for you too.  Sample images online with these systems show great IQ, particularly when fitted with one of the great lenses that are available.

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tecnoworld
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Re: You should switch
In reply to shark81, 10 months ago

The best camera for me as features, now, is pentax k3. But it's huge and heavy.

Second is probably omd-em1. But it has smaller sensor and expensive lenses.

Third is nex6, but has not touch and not so good (but big) lenses and slower af.

Fourth is gx7, but has same problems that omd, plus smaller buffer.

Fifth is nx300, which I already own together with lenses, but has tiny buffer and no evf.

Given this top 5 with comments, I think no wise person would switch owning #5 in ranking, considering that I see structural issues in all the others.

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shark81
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Re: You should switch
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

Is there a way to contact Samsung about whether NX20 will be upgraded?  I would seriously doubt that it's an end of life model, although I agree the Galaxy NX is concerning.  I would maintain it is wise to hold out through CES.  I would also agree that any suggestions you have for Samsung would not be implemented until NX40.  We'll see what happens in the next few months.  I'm trying not to check the sites so often as it is draining.

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tecnoworld
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Re: You should switch
In reply to shark81, 10 months ago

You're right

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shark81
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

I would have to say I'd like it to be like the GX7.  They need to do away with the dSLR body style and come out with a body similar to the GX7 or the NEX6.  Basically make it a prosumer version of the NX300 with nice evf and touchscreen.  Keep the body small though.  No flash sticking out on top.  I wish the flash that was bundled in NX300 could tilt up for bounce.  Or it could have a pop out tiltable flash.  Release it with an updated 30mm lens with ifunction.  Would be great if lens came in metallic silver finish to match metal like on NX300.  Improve buffer.  Add some more apps like instagram... or better yet ability to add your own customized apps like flickr upload, etc.  Faster buffer.  More photo editing tools within camera.

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arbuz
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

tecnoworld wrote:

Anyway, I agree on price, but some features are really needed by many, like a very good evf and a deeper buffer. Perhaps not many need weather sealing, so that could well justify a price difference.

A agree on both - efv, buffer + I add AF, especially tracking AF. If this is provided + hopefully new high quality zoom as a kit then I'm in for the new NX30.

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NewForce
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Don't switch, but to wait patiently...
In reply to shark81, 10 months ago

shark81 wrote:

I think what Kenny means is that you are spending WAY too much time bashing a good camera, and it's not getting you anywhere. Maybe you should focus on what is AVAILABLE as opposed to what could potentially be available. Otherwise you will never be satisfied in the camera world, or in any world for that matter.

shark81,

Thank you very much for your helping out, friends.  You must be a mind reader. 

tecnoworld wrote:

I think you don't actually understand my point of view, otherwise you wouldn't be continuously giving me the advice to switch.

I'd switch if there were a camera with everything I want. I'd do that even if I have an investment in a system that can't sell on second hand market, like NX.

The fact is, I repeat this, that NO CAMERA has all the options I'd like.

NX300 is very good, so I'm not talking bad of your beloved camera, simply it's not perfect. Is it bad trying to have Samsung to improve it? You seem scared that Samsung could do something to improve this camera...why?

As to Galaxy NX, it's a huge wrong step and you'll see this in few months, when the price will drop by 50% or more, after almost nobody bought it.

Why? Simply because there does not exist a market for such a frankenstein product and probably will never exist (I mean for that specific product, with its huge limits and not for a camera with a computer inside). I remember an article here on DPR talking about odd cameras of the past (that were innovative, in some ways, but didn't sell well and remained a dead end). Well, I bet whatever you want that a camera of this kind w/o physical controls, will be in that list.

tecnoworld,

First, let me apologize for forgotten to delete the "You should switch" subject wording on my last reply to you.

Second, I felt so bad & sad the way you've choose to respond. I've thought you started the thread lookiing for opinions and discussions. So I took my extra efforts to discuss with you about the pros & cons, what was the environment in the camera industry and the way me/we are commonly seeing from Samsung to the rest camera makers.

For NX300, I know the good points and what other claimed to be the weak points in it. But I've fully evaluate that prior to my purchase, NX300 was the camera I've ever need. A no mirror, pentaprism OVF slim body & lightweight camera. And given the price when I'd the purchased, it was also way too cheap to own 1 (I've actually bought 2 sets of NX300), when comparing the Sony NEX5/6 or Canon 60D, Nikon D7100.

I felt bad & sorry for those Galaxy NX camera owner out there with the words you've used against them.

And more: I'm afraid. Why? Since Samsung was on the right track with NX100 (very nice camera, with optional EVF) and NX300 (even if they did the very wrong move of getting rid of optional EVF). If they get a totally different route, the NX line will soon disappear.

Have you thought of why Samsung stop the EVF option since NX200/210/300?

If you are the manufacturer, what will you do when assuming 100,000 of yours, only around 50 people buy the extra EVF accessories. That's about 0.05%. Not sure about you, but for me I'll shutdown the EVF production line and remove it from the accessories option.

Last. You say that the poll got few answers. Right! But it's the NX system that gets few interest by many and is hated by many. Why? For samsung behaviour. It does not listen to users, it goes straight in doing what they think is right even when the market proves against it.

Let me ask you, where do you get your "Samsung did not listen to users, they do what they think is right" info from? Or was it just an assumption? If it was just an assumption, it's not valid.

Let switch to another info/data. With the high rise of multiple millions of Samsung Smarter Smartphone camera users, most of them prefer touch screen, less buttons camera. It is by far considered super huge camera user numbers than what have been assumption up against Samsung approach. With this fact alone, Samsung in facts does listening to their, multipe millions of camera users.

Also, like what I've said before, Samsung was not a traditional camera maker, so I did not hope for Samsung adopting the "traditional camera makers" way of camera design. I'm experienced enough and already tired of traditional camera. If it the same traditional camera, maybe I will not buy into any Samsung camera in the future if it look just like another Canon, Nikon, Oly, Pana or Sony DSLR/DSLM camera.

The NX could have been #1 mirrorless system if there were a good traditional camera with a very good EVF. The nx20 was as slow as a turtle and NX300 that's noticeably faster and better featured does not have an optional EVF. I bought the NX300 since I already had a lot of lenses, and I didn't like the nx200 (while I liked the nx100 very much).

Whether or not Samsung NX camera system can become No.1 in DSLM/CSC it doesn't matter to many. What really matter was making the DSLM/CSC a more interesting camera with newer idea. Only then, it can attract/persuade more people into buying into a new camera. And I believed old fashion traditional design camera no longer able to attract much new customer or existing customer to upgrade.

As said I won't buy a nx400 or nx30, if it does not solve the tiny buffer issue and does not implement a gorgeous EVF in it.

p.s.: you advise to switch. Please advise also towards which system, giving the same features of NX300 + EVF + huge buffer + same primes and pancakes. Thanks.

I believe next gen NX camera will have bigger buffer, only not sure is by how much, or how much is enough to satisfy some.

I was never fond or a fans for any EVF equipped camera, not even the one in Sony A99. By saying that does not mean I'm saying it is bad quality, quite contrary it was the best available camera with EVF.

Up until now, I'll choose an OVF camera over any EVF camera. It doesn't matter an OVF couldn't see dark surrounding like my eyes do. It doesn't matter an OVF was not able to look into strong light just like my eyes do. That's just my personal reference, I like to see things like my own eyes do. With the extreme lighting condition and a camera with OVF, I'll switch to big liveview LCD screen for temporary help out the situation.

No, quite the opposite. I am pretty much wanted (begging?) you to,

  1. Continue to stay with Samsung NX camera system, if you still can be contented with the given features on your NX300.
  2. Wait patiently for the next new better spec NX camera to be release by end of the year or next year.
  3. During the waiting, shoot more with NX300 to gain more shooting skills and to prepare yourself better for the next newer and better NX camera.
  4. If the new camera in fact satisfy most of your need (surely not all), then you save serious money by no switching to other camera system now.

If new camera did not meet most of your need.

  1. Sell your Samsung camera and all the lenses. Of course you'll loose serious money, but the same does apply to Sony, Oly, Pana, Pentax or even some low end Canon and Nikon model camera too.
  2. After that, switch to Nikon D7100/D7200 and my current prefer choice D610. Or my less prefer Canon 70D/80D/6D (as I dislike the less than 100% OVF camera more).
  3. Once you've done the switch, never look back at any other than these 2 brand camera again. Unless, 1 of them their brand recognition can finally join "The 2-Kings" and change the games to become "The 3-Kings". I doubt that ever happen in the next 3 years. (When will the next "LOTR - The 3-Towers" movie showing?)

Lastly tecnoworld, if you are still not happy to whatever I have written, don't hate me, just ignore them. I'm just trying to offer you some of my pov, which might be useful advices to you or as some reference to make your next camera choice better. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Kenny

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tecnoworld
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Re: Don't switch, but to wait patiently...
In reply to NewForce, 10 months ago

Thx for your advice. Just one thing: I'd never buy such bulky cameras as the one mentioned. My biggest size could be the omd-em1.

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arbuz
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to shark81, 10 months ago

So you want a prosumer camera with instagram and edit your prosumer images on 3'' screen. Are you also willing to pay prosumer price? I am not convinced that this is important for many actual prosumers.

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NewForce
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Re: Don't switch, but to wait patiently...
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

Me too.. I'm a victim for big and bulky camera, already for more than 3 decades.

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Kenny

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shark81
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to arbuz, 10 months ago

I'm definitely not a prosumer. So I guess I'd change what I wanted to more of a consumer/enthusiast level camera.  No EVF is not a dealbreaker to me as it increases the size and cost of the camera... BUT if there was EVF I'd like it to stay relatively compact, like NEX6.  That camera still feels good in hand to me.  I'd like any NX30 to stay the same style as NX300... basically make it like how the NEX6 is to the NEX5T.

More importantly, I think it would be great to be able to have apps like instagram or other addons. The ability to instantly upload to the social networking world is great. I love the facebook upload feature. Not every picture has to be tweaked on a monitor in LR. I usually just snap it and want to share it asap. Quick on camera editing, on camera posting. Speed from snapshot to internet upload is crucial these days. Very important in todays social networking world. This is where most pictures are shared these days. Doesn't have to be professional, just a great picture. And certainly a great deal better than all the terrible pictures you see on facebook and instagram taken with cell phones. The younger generation of consumers and enthusiasts expects and demands these features. The old timers grew up on the old manual equipment, the young generation grew up on the iphone. Samsung is correct to move away from old fashioned to modern interface and connectivity.

NX300 is good in that it combines old and new. Galaxy NX seeks to do the same, but goes too far and is too expensive. NX300 is a great middle ground. Definitely a great camera to keep building off of. I think the NX300M was a great feature to be able to take self shots or self video/family portrait type experiences. Something consumers are drawn to. Should have been like this at initial launch and needs to come to the US.  I do indoor shots a lot and would like the ability to use bounce flash without having to buy that huge expensive Samsung flash.  I like how the Fujifilm X-A1/X-M1 has a pop up tiltable flash.  That's a feature most consumers would like to see out of a Samsung camera.  These are simple yet smart moves for Samsung.

Pop up (preferable) or attachable tiltable flash/Add on apps/More quick on camera editing/180 degree screen/Better screen for outdoor use.  (These are my upgrade ideas on the NX300 US model).  iFunction 30mm lens in silver please.  For the NX30 which I probably wouldn't buy due to cost... add EVF.  I'd buy it a couple years later when the price cuts in half at a bargain deal!  Also Samsung stop trying to get rid of dials.

I don't think what I'm asking is expensive at all.  The X-A1 has many of the features I want minus touchscreen, self shot, and Samsung user interface/connectivity for $599.  And I don't want to buy lenses more expensive than the camera body.

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tecnoworld
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to arbuz, 10 months ago

I'm not interested in any sort of social apps on a camera. I'd pay 1200$ or a bit more for a nx30 with:

- newer and better sensor

- evf much better than nx20/galaxy nx (say on par with omd-em1)

- huge buffer (on par with pentax k3)

- faster af

All the rest, same as nx300.

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targut
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Re: I'd like a hypothetical NX30 to be...
In reply to tecnoworld, 10 months ago

I would like to have a camera like these two in the middle:

It would have a sensor 23.5x23.5mm with 30MP or less and it would take APS-C lenses. However, this nice concept does not fit to any target public of Samsung and most probably will remain in the history of concepts-that-have-never-been-made-a-public-product.

Anyway, when the 1x1 format has got so popular now, I see no reason to have only 3:2 and 4:3 sensors. The lens circle is round and a square sensor utilizes most of it (a rounded sensor like in Polaroid 1 would be even more effective but not suitable for mass production)

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Samsung NX200 Samsung NX2000 Fujifilm X-A1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS +6 more
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