D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)

Started Oct 6, 2013 | Discussions
Shotcents
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Re: What to do
In reply to MarkJH, Oct 7, 2013

(1) + (2) + (3) + (4) =

I'm going with TEN. Final answer.

Robert

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Nikonfan99
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Re: The Well-Tempered Report
In reply to MarkJH, Oct 7, 2013

One thing you could do: you could decide you aren't going to further patronize the company that made it.

Well I actually thought about that but you see, I am heavily invested in nikon glass, speedlights and accessories and on top of that. The alternative was the canon 6D which did not have a second SD slot (I shoot weddings so a backup of my images is priceless). Did not have the same AF system and in fact had a AF system that is not as good as the 7D. Did not have a focus assist light and that is just the start of the list. I also felt the dust issue was manageable and was improving. I did not want a D800 because of price and add to that the larger files. So for me it is risk vs reward and actually not even risk but inconvenience of cleaning vs reward. Btw, the issue gets better with time.

Since all things are relative, for some people a multi-thousand dollar investment is significant. It's reasonable to be upset when that investment doesn't live up to its promise in important ways.

We can agree that upset shouldn't lead to photographic paralysis. But where we disagree is in the action we think the upset should provoke. See below

You still have not said what SHOULD be done when upset. Please include the solution that allows the user to keep shooting and not selling every other lens or camera body they own at a loss.

I haven't heard of anyone looking to ditch a D600 for a D610. That's the ire you think this fracas has aroused? That's what you're advising against? If so, it's revelatory "NikonFan99": it's as if you can't imagine not patronizing Nikon.

The question isn't whether you should ditch a D600 for a D610. It's whether, having been burned, you should buy anything with a Nikon stamp on it again.

Since you did, I am suggesting your testimony isn't even-tempered and doesn't make broad rhetorical sense: you're writing from a perspective that doesn't / can't envision the many capable alternatives

So please share the many capable alternatives for current users that own a D600 with this life ending event of frequent sensor cleanings for a period of time. I also am asking what you main goal is here? Are you selling other brands here or what are you trying to say. Please talk to me as a current nikon user with lots of nikon gear and one that has resolved his issue with the cleaning process over time.

No one's going to do that. No one was ever going to do that. Again: it's as if you can't imagine not patronizing Nikon. Which is why you don't have a tempered perspective on this matter.

Don't read me wrong: it's good you can turn a frown upside down; it's good you aren't stuck in analysis paralysis; it's good you like what you like. But what you like appears to be pretty idiosyncratic: to you, Canon is for people who shoot white walls; but otherwise, the direct Canon alternatives (to say nothing of what's out there from others) look pretty capable and do not appear to suffer from manufacturing defects.

Really so NO ONE IS EVER going to sell a D600 to go to a D610 because of this issue? Seems like a pretty big blanket statement. Also yes canon is great but my argument is not if canon is great. My argument is that if you own a dust machine, be realistic as to how it actually impacts you and if the financial move to a D610 or other brand makes sense.

Which is, if you ask me, most styles of photography. Crap on your sensor is bad for your results, even if wider apertures defocus said crap. It's still there, still taking a visible toll on color and contrast.

Yes if you dont EVER clean it but not if you are taking good care of your gear (as you should) and doing regular maintenance.

Cleaning a sensor is, at best, a dangerous chore. I have yet to meet a photographer who enjoys doing it.

Dangerous chore? driving a car is a far more dangerous chore. Nothing dangerous if you use common sense and proper tools. People have been doing it for a long time. I have done it plenty of times now and never felt danger. I feel more danger and have more stress about my gear getting damaged from a fall or stolen.

On a final note, I think two different things are being discussed here. If I was a new user, without a D600, Would I buy a D610 right after it came out....NOPE. If I was not invested in any nikon gear would I buy a canon 6D instead? NO because it did not have the features I wanted. If I owned a D600 and did shoot in a editing time critical setting with apertures that made the spots show up and it was critical work that limited my editing time, would I sell the d600 and get something else? YES. But I am not talking about that user. I am talking about guys like me that have the issue but see the benefits that may be more important and rarely see the actual issue show up in ACTUAL SHOTS. The guys like me are the ones that need a chill pill should they decide they want to brand/gear dump at a huge loss.

I get it again. Heard it before and even said it before myself. ..."nikon should have fixed this" "this is not right" "I spent 2k". Yes got it. I am team "get it together nikon repair" but the proof is in the final images for ME. Not you and not anyone else. I love the camera minus this issue and it HAS gotten better with time and will continue to get better. I need a drink now.

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leicaman
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Refund
In reply to LynchpinH, Oct 7, 2013

Nikon refunded all my $$$$
After 8 months

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bocajrs
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Re: Refund
In reply to leicaman, Oct 7, 2013

leicaman wrote:

Nikon refunded all my $$$$
After 8 months

I actually went through 3 D600's and now have D800 and couldn't be any happier. 1st exchanged by Amazon in March 2013 . 2nd repaired 3 times because oil/dust and Nikon refunded by $$$ 3. Purchased again in July (what was I thinking) and refunded by Amazon 3 weeks ago.

If you've sent in for service 3x and issue isn't repaired, contact Nikon Tech Support Mgr at Melville NY and explain to them your situation. You can google the# - That's what I did !!! Good luck!!!

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CL Kwok
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Re: Refund
In reply to leicaman, Oct 7, 2013

leicaman wrote:

Nikon refunded all my $$$$
After 8 months

You're still lucky though refund 8 months later. I've bought in August 2013 and found the result as below (with editing to reflect the spots). NSC says will repair it.

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RichRMA
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to TOF guy, Oct 7, 2013

Next stop for all those D600's, Ebay.

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Paul Petersen
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to TOF guy, Oct 7, 2013

I hope they address some other shortcoming beyond the shutter particles, its only competitor the 6D.

Needs the 51pt AF that covers more of the frame not just the small cluster of the cropped sensor part.

Integrate GPS and WiFi like the 6D.  Who wants a dodad sticking out or taking up the hot shoe to realize the capability let alone have to pay Nikon's insane accessory prices.

My biggest performance disappointment with the D600 was its High ISO performance was basically the same as the D800 with 2/3 the pixels.  Besides they let Canon out do them here tisk tisk.

Otherwise it is a great design and control layout. Want to hammer nails, a round eyehole and 3 kings buttons get a D800.

Pete

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Alan Brown
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this is a typing error, right?
In reply to MarkJH, Oct 7, 2013

MarkJH wrote:

Cleaning a sensor is, at best, a dangerous chore. I have yet to meet a photographer who enjoys doing it.

dangerous.... as in crossing the road?

why would you choose such a word to describe cleaning?

curious.

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

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iau
iau
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to InTheMist, Oct 7, 2013

InTheMist wrote:

I don't know why they don't take the same sensor and shutter, put it in a D800 body and call it a D710.

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Ridicule is not C&C nor is it being helpful nor "stating your opinion"
www.flickr.com/InTheMist

I wouldn't mind if they did as long as they keep a FX DSLR in a smaller body. The D600 is an excellent second body to a larger FX that one can use for hikes and vacation.

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Fogsville
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To nobody in particular......
In reply to TOF guy, Oct 7, 2013

Photography seemed to be a much more honorable discipline before the internet (and before ubiquitous digital capture.)  And these days it feels like any image-making dialogue is primarily about the significance of the gear and little else.  And what's up with the macho language like "shoot" and "glass."  "I shoot a D700" ??

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John Motts
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to Nikonfan99, Oct 7, 2013

Nikonfan99 wrote:

The issue gets better over time.

This seems to be the general consensus, but one thing that bothers me, not having any engineering experience, is that if it does get better, does this mean that there is no longer enough lubricant left in the shutter mechanism for it to work effectively for the very long term?

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Alan Brown
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you are now going to be get..
In reply to Fogsville, Oct 7, 2013

Fogsville wrote:

Photography seemed to be a much more honorable discipline before the internet (and before ubiquitous digital capture.) And these days it feels like any image-making dialogue is primarily about the significance of the gear and little else. And what's up with the macho language like "shoot" and "glass." "I shoot a D700" ??

the hackneyed replies of 'This IS a gear forum'

It does seem that the 'reason' for buying stuff is rarely illustrated.. few posts with photos taken with the gear in this or many fora. I know there is a photo forum but people want to see what the gear, here, produces; well I do.

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

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Alan Brown
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it's not like having the sump drained on your car...
In reply to John Motts, Oct 7, 2013

John Motts wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

The issue gets better over time.

This seems to be the general consensus, but one thing that bothers me, not having any engineering experience, is that if it does get better, does this mean that there is no longer enough lubricant left in the shutter mechanism for it to work effectively for the very long term?

if it was the case you'd end up with a very short life.. like an engine wouldn't last more than a short trip down the block if it all drained out.

There is no 'container' in the shutter mechanism; so you could argue that when the spots stop flying it would now the same amount of lubricant as those that were just bought new without just the right amount.

It would be ironic if those that had some excess had a longer shutter life, wouldn't it.

My guess is as good as yours..

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

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Rbrt
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Re: To nobody in particular......
In reply to Fogsville, Oct 7, 2013

Perhaps because the gear buying decision has become soooo much more complicated. Back in the day differentiation came down to spot meter or averaged; screw mount or bayonet and the quality of the glass. That was about it!

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Simon Garrett
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Re: To nobody in particular......
In reply to Fogsville, Oct 7, 2013

Fogsville wrote:

And what's up with the macho language like "shoot" and "glass." "I shoot a D700" ??

I think people in all walks of life resort to jargon, even when the jargon adds no meaning and just confuses outsiders.  It's a group bonding thing.  It identifies you with the group when you use the language.

I try to avoid jargon unless the term has a specific meaning not provided by every-day language.  For example "stops", meaning steps of 2x or 0.5x in exposure is useful as it has a distinct meaning.  But I don't normally use "glass" for lens, and I tend to avoid tired, over-used terms like "tack sharp" (is there no other way of describing a sharp image?)

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John Motts
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to Paul Petersen, Oct 7, 2013

Paul Petersen wrote:

My biggest performance disappointment with the D600 was its High ISO performance was basically the same as the D800 with 2/3 the pixels. Besides they let Canon out do them here tisk tisk.

The high ISO performance of the D600 is one of its great strengths and way better than the D700.

Canon just use more noise reduction.

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Nikonfan99
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Re: it's not like having the sump drained on your car...
In reply to Alan Brown, Oct 7, 2013

Well I am of the opinion (and you know what they say about opinions) that if the excess lubrication splatter is like the cameras of nikons past (d7000 comes to mind), the camera lives a long happy life after it gets rid of the excess amount. A shutter replacement should a failure take place (which I have not read about too often)  is about a $250 replacement. Selling a D600 because of dust can be up to a $1,000 loss. So I still say clean that sensor and things improve over time and enjoy the camera for what it can produce. Just my opinion but who said anyone has to take it right?

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Prairie Pal
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Re: To nobody in particular......
In reply to Simon Garrett, Oct 7, 2013

Simon Garrett wrote:

Fogsville wrote:

And what's up with the macho language like "shoot" and "glass." "I shoot a D700" ??

and I tend to avoid tired, over-used terms like "tack sharp" (is there no other way of describing a sharp image?)

Or my favorite; "arsenal".    "My arsenal consists of... blah blah blah"
One that I'm guilty of is "capture", as in "nice capture dude".  Is everyone so afraid to use every day common words like "picture"?  "Nice pictures dude".

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Ivan

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Simon Garrett
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Re: To nobody in particular......
In reply to Prairie Pal, Oct 7, 2013

Prairie Pal wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

Fogsville wrote:

And what's up with the macho language like "shoot" and "glass." "I shoot a D700" ??

and I tend to avoid tired, over-used terms like "tack sharp" (is there no other way of describing a sharp image?)

Or my favorite; "arsenal". "My arsenal consists of... blah blah blah"
One that I'm guilty of is "capture", as in "nice capture dude". Is everyone so afraid to use every day common words like "picture"? "Nice pictures dude".

Yes, we all do it, and I'm sure I use cliche too.  We just notice it more with jargon and cliches that we don't use ourselves.

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Simon

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Willi3
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Re: D610 to be announced within 48 hours (as of 10/5)
In reply to TOF guy, Oct 7, 2013

TOF guy wrote:

According to nikonrumors:

http://nikonrumors.com/

  • Slightly higher fps 6 vs. 5.5
  • D800-grade weather sealing

As far as NR knows

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

I use Nikon cameras since a long time (> 25 years). Now I own D800e, D600 and D7100. I really like them all. In my opinion the D600 is the most versatile. OK, it´s not perfect but I don´t  have this problem with dust and oil, or may be I diid not realize it, because I rarely stop down more than aperture 11. Independently, the way Nikon is dealing the problem is a real joke.

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