Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
forpetessake
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how is that an argument?
In reply to PAUL TILL, 9 months ago

PAUL TILL wrote:

Why exactly?

If you can't produce amazing images with what you already have, maybe you should find another hobby.

Isn't what they were saying 10 years ago? My Canon D30 was a hot camera, producing amazing images. Somehow I don't see anybody shooting with D30 now. They must have all found another hobby.

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to LTZ470, 9 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

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forpetessake
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forecast
In reply to BonoBox, 9 months ago

BonoBox wrote:

this is a really bad news!! after all the money invested in the m4/3 system

i hope the rumors are not real

In less than 5 years everybody will be looking at pre-FF era as the dark ages of photography. Don't panic, the FF is coming, it's a good news. The old cameras are destined to go to a landfill, it's always been that way, and always will be.

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forpetessake
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is that so?
In reply to Lab D, 9 months ago

Lab D wrote:

I am trying to get away from those big lenses.

The lenses are too big? Really? Where did you hear that rumor? Let me allay your fears -- it's not true.

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: how is that an argument?
In reply to forpetessake, 9 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

Why exactly?

If you can't produce amazing images with what you already have, maybe you should find another hobby.

Isn't what they were saying 10 years ago? My Canon D30 was a hot camera, producing amazing images. Somehow I don't see anybody shooting with D30 now. They must have all found another hobby.

LOL, I completely agree. Both are at extreme sides of argument. No logic.

The reality is in the middle: hardware matters as well as soft skills. Progress can be made at both aspects. One can improve his skills, but it doesn't mean to fanatically stick with outdated hardware. Ops, I didn't mean to mention it here at m43 forum.

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Zenjitsuman
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to AndyGM, 9 months ago

I have 6 Leica mount lenses 15--21--25--35--50--90mm.  If the flange to sensor distance is

shallow enough then I have my basic kit since all these lenses are FF lenses and focus peaking

is a standard Sony feature.  I would not have to worry about getting good subject separation

because all the lenses are f2.8 or faster (except the 15mm) and FF f2.8 is fast enough.

So I would just have to pay for the body.  If they use the Nex mount I even have adapters already.

For longer focal lengths I could use the M 43 with its smaller lenses I have a 135mm f2.3 that on

M 43 is a 270mm lens, about as long as I need.

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: forecast
In reply to forpetessake, 9 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

BonoBox wrote:

this is a really bad news!! after all the money invested in the m4/3 system

i hope the rumors are not real

In less than 5 years everybody will be looking at pre-FF era as the dark ages of photography. Don't panic, the FF is coming, it's a good news. The old cameras are destined to go to a landfill, it's always been that way, and always will be.

Except, m43 - it will always be there forever

Other than that - I agree.

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sean lancaster
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Donny out of Element here wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

Yeah, and the widest is a Zeiss 24 - 70. There is no way Zeiss and Sony release a lens that is going to have corner issues that LTZ470 describes. But he's speaking from ignorance so I suppose he can make any claim he wants. The Zeiss 24 - 70 is an SR5 rumor, so that's as strong as rumors go from SonyAlphaRumors . . . I guess we'll know whether LTZ470 is making stuff up, as we suspect, or not in the next few weeks as these things emerge from beyond the rumor mill.

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DT200
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There will be corner issues.
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

There is no way Zeiss and Sony release a lens that is going to have corner issues that LTZ470 describes.

The issues will not be due to the lenses, but rather the design of the NEX system.   Wide open those zooms will have problems at the short focal lengths.

I find it sad there are no traditional portrait lenses or longer.  These cameras will IMHO be niche products.   The real problem I see is the confusion Sony is causing.  They will be called Alpha cameras, but need adapters for Alpha lenses.  They will have NEX mounts but either won't work or won't work well with most NEX lenses.   Sony is trying to support too many systems, an like SLTs, may have to abandon some.

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LTZ470
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

I hope you are correct...a FF Nex with a WA or UWA would be killer for Landscapes...NO interest at all in Sony Zooms...two words: they suk...18-200, 55-210, 18-55 own or have owned all three...

Yeah, and the widest is a Zeiss 24 - 70. There is no way Zeiss and Sony release a lens that is going to have corner issues that LTZ470 describes. But he's speaking from ignorance so I suppose he can make any claim he wants.

Like the 10-18 issues on the Nex-7? I didn't realize no one else knew about the 10-18 on the Nex-7? And the 16mm f/2.8 corners?

The Zeiss 24 - 70 is an SR5 rumor, so that's as strong as rumors go from SonyAlphaRumors . . . I guess we'll know whether LTZ470 is making stuff up, as we suspect, or not in the next few weeks as these things emerge from beyond the rumor mill.

Nope, I am speculating that there will be no wide primes for the Nex FF due to lens limitations, Why did Sony get away from the 16mm?, and start making a 20mm Prime?...corners were terrible on the 16mm, 10-18 fixed the corners, but the Magenta Cast on the right hand side of the 10-18 on Nex-7 is a an issue...the 10-18 is still nice on the Nex-7 but not stellar, and a UWA Prime could be, but there's the limitations of design...

Got photos to back up everything I mentioned here, so if you still want to call that ignorance, that's your choice...but that's also ignorance to facts not ignorance to rumors or hearsay,

when you point your finger at someone else there are three pointing back at YOU...

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ultimitsu
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Re: If I wanted a large camera I would have gone FF already (nt)
In reply to tt321, 9 months ago

tt321 wrote:

You went to great lengths to cherry-pick heavy and large and uncommon examples of M43 to compare with FF standard issue lenses. Fine.

No, that is a dishonest accusation. I did not cherry pick anything these are the only M43 lenses that have true comparable FF counter parts. Even 20 F1.7 vs 40 F2.8 are getting a bit far from being comparable. your so called more common lenses such as 25 F2.4 or 45 F1.8 have no FF counter part.

I could do the same with Sony APSC vs. FF Canon when you asked me to (see below), and I am surprised I did not have to cherry-pick so much. Just used your examples and voila.

I still have no idea what you are on about. My point is, and has been repeated several times now, larger sensor does not mean larger lens. What exactly did you prove with sony example? that I am right?

Just in case you missed it, the thread is about Sony FF mirrorless. M43 lenses being similar in size to FF SLR lenses in some cases has nothing to do with this.

YOU ARE COMPLETELY LOST.

The post you responded to said this:

ultimitsu wrote:

Manip16 wrote:

I'm certain Sony could make a NEX camera with an E-M5 sized body, the problem the NEX system has is that the lenses cannot be that small because of the APS-C sensor. So while your body might be no larger your system will be quite a bit larger.

Not at all.

For lenses of comparable aperture, FF lenses are smaller.

You said there is nothing preventing FF mirrorless from having similarly sized lenses to SLR FF, which is technically true, but in reality, a company that's not able or willing to make APSC lenses comparable in size to Canon SLR lenses is expected to suddenly change heart and grow expertise to now make their FF lenses comparable to Canon SLR lenses and thus smaller than their own equivalent APSC ones?

You premises is wrong to begin with, Sony APS-C lenses are not "disappointingly" bigger or smaller than canon's APS-C lenses. And you have not provided evidence to that effect.

Not have you explained why sony is interested in making lenses bigger than they need to be, is it a cost saving thing? or is it a brand image thing?

bottomline is, you failed to explain why Sony want to make lenses larger, or that they are indeed making lenses that are larger.

current NEX lenses do not suffer vignetting to the same degree as Leica lenses, but they do generally suffer from poor design. That however has got nothing to do with the point I was making.

Why should they not carry on the poor design into their FF venture, at least for a few more years?

They very well could, I am not a fan of sony product personally but this debate has got nothing to do with what Sony could do, it is abotu what is objecively possible, re-read Mainp16's post which I responded to which you then responded to.

I'm all for great advancements in FF mirrorless and the eradication of SLR dinosaurs this could bring,

Why do you care if SLR is eradicated? LOL do their emotionally hurt you or something?

whether this Sony iteration will be strong enough to do that is very questionable.

regardless how good A7 is, FFDSLR is not going away, not for another 20 years. but that is not what A7 is set out to do anyway. What A7 will hurt a lot is Leica M.

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sean lancaster
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to LTZ470, 9 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

I hope you are correct...a FF Nex with a WA or UWA would be killer for Landscapes...NO interest at all in Sony Zooms...two words: they suk...18-200, 55-210, 18-55 own or have owned all three...

Yeah, and the widest is a Zeiss 24 - 70. There is no way Zeiss and Sony release a lens that is going to have corner issues that LTZ470 describes. But he's speaking from ignorance so I suppose he can make any claim he wants.

Like the 10-18 issues on the Nex-7? I didn't realize no one else knew about the 10-18 on the Nex-7? And the 16mm f/2.8 corners?

The Zeiss 24 - 70 is an SR5 rumor, so that's as strong as rumors go from SonyAlphaRumors . . . I guess we'll know whether LTZ470 is making stuff up, as we suspect, or not in the next few weeks as these things emerge from beyond the rumor mill.

Nope, I am speculating that there will be no wide primes for the Nex FF due to lens limitations, Why did Sony get away from the 16mm?, and start making a 20mm Prime?...corners were terrible on the 16mm, 10-18 fixed the corners, but the Magenta Cast on the right hand side of the 10-18 on Nex-7 is a an issue...the 10-18 is still nice on the Nex-7 but not stellar, and a UWA Prime could be, but there's the limitations of design...

Got photos to back up everything I mentioned here, so if you still want to call that ignorance, that's your choice...but that's also ignorance to facts not ignorance to rumors or hearsay,

when you point your finger at someone else there are three pointing back at YOU...

But these same wide angle problems are not visible on my 5N. And we know that one of the FF NEX cameras will be 24 megapixels. That should have no problem with wide angle. The 36 megapixel model should be more similar in cropability to the NEX 7, so perhaps we'll see about the vignetting. But Sony is also designing things a little differently and they've had a few years to work on this new design. Like I said, we'll know soon enough. But this is their one chance to wow the world with these new FF mirrorless cameras, so I'll be surprised if the expensive 24 - 70 Zeiss lens fails on release. Keep in mind the 10 - 18 came out years later. Even the 16 pancake didn't fail so much because of vignetting on the NEX 7 as much as the lens was just crummy. ;~) The 18-55 kit lens seems to do just fine on the NEX 7 doesn't it? So the 24 - 70 on the larger FF NEX should be fine as well. Wider than 24 and we'll have to wait and see. I have no desire for anything wider than 24 other than my Rokinon fisheye 8/2.8 on my NEX 5N (and I prefer it over any fisheye I'd get for my Canon 6D).

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: Good luck Sony. Hope you will succeed.
In reply to JeanPierre Martel, 9 months ago

JeanPierre Martel wrote:

BonoBox wrote:

i joined m4/3 mainly to avoid big camera and lenses....and honestly this advantage is reducing step by step (DSLR getting smaller and m4/3 getting bigger).

Lenses for FullFrame cameras (mirrorless or not) will always be bigger and heavier than ours. It is physically impossible to design equivalent FullFrame and m4/3 lenses that would have the same size.

Will there be, eventually, mirrorless FullFrame cameras? Definitively. Will they replace reflex FullFrame cameras? Probably. Will their lenses be smaller than equivalent reflex FullFrame lenses? I guess so. But will their lenses be smaller than ours? It's just impossible.

If I may continue your line: Will eventually m43 be obsolete or you will stay with it forever?

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: until Oly or Pany makes FF
In reply to dennis tennis, 9 months ago

dennis tennis wrote:

poo poo FF mirrorless, huge body, huge lenses..

until Oly or Pany announces they will make it and the fanboys here will applaud Oly and Pany for giving users "a choice" and choice is a good thing.

LOL, agree, and then all we would hear is: FF is just the right sweet spot, sent by God himself. No way medium format can make lenses as small as our FF lenses

P.S. just for facts: some NEX bodies are actually smaller than many m43 bodies, while been more comfy to hold thanks to NEX grip. Sony is best master at making compact hi-tech bodies, no one comes close. Lenses are different story (physics play a role here).

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LTZ470
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

EarthQuake wrote

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Just as I thought the UWA Lens are not going to work well at alll on the Nex FF...35mm is the widest they are going as this is the widest they can achieve without corner issues on the FF same as RX1...

So not even a 28mm or a 24mm for Nex FF, and that is sad, but that's reality, it can't be done...or if it can it's not cost effective...

Dude, there already are 2 zooms ready for announcement in less than 2 weeks that have 28mm and 24mm! at their wide end, the last one is actually Zeiss. I'm sure more primes will follow including UWA.

I hope you are correct...a FF Nex with a WA or UWA would be killer for Landscapes...NO interest at all in Sony Zooms...two words: they suk...18-200, 55-210, 18-55 own or have owned all three...

Yeah, and the widest is a Zeiss 24 - 70. There is no way Zeiss and Sony release a lens that is going to have corner issues that LTZ470 describes. But he's speaking from ignorance so I suppose he can make any claim he wants.

Like the 10-18 issues on the Nex-7? I didn't realize no one else knew about the 10-18 on the Nex-7? And the 16mm f/2.8 corners?

The Zeiss 24 - 70 is an SR5 rumor, so that's as strong as rumors go from SonyAlphaRumors . . . I guess we'll know whether LTZ470 is making stuff up, as we suspect, or not in the next few weeks as these things emerge from beyond the rumor mill.

Nope, I am speculating that there will be no wide primes for the Nex FF due to lens limitations, Why did Sony get away from the 16mm?, and start making a 20mm Prime?...corners were terrible on the 16mm, 10-18 fixed the corners, but the Magenta Cast on the right hand side of the 10-18 on Nex-7 is a an issue...the 10-18 is still nice on the Nex-7 but not stellar, and a UWA Prime could be, but there's the limitations of design...

Got photos to back up everything I mentioned here, so if you still want to call that ignorance, that's your choice...but that's also ignorance to facts not ignorance to rumors or hearsay,

when you point your finger at someone else there are three pointing back at YOU...

But these same wide angle problems are not visible on my 5N. And we know that one of the FF NEX cameras will be 24 megapixels. That should have no problem with wide angle. The 36 megapixel model should be more similar in cropability to the NEX 7, so perhaps we'll see about the vignetting. But Sony is also designing things a little differently and they've had a few years to work on this new design. Like I said, we'll know soon enough. But this is their one chance to wow the world with these new FF mirrorless cameras, so I'll be surprised if the expensive 24 - 70 Zeiss lens fails on release. Keep in mind the 10 - 18 came out years later. Even the 16 pancake didn't fail so much because of vignetting on the NEX 7 as much as the lens was just crummy. ;~) The 18-55 kit lens seems to do just fine on the NEX 7 doesn't it? So the 24 - 70 on the larger FF NEX should be fine as well. Wider than 24 and we'll have to wait and see. I have no desire for anything wider than 24 other than my Rokinon fisheye 8/2.8 on my NEX 5N (and I prefer it over any fisheye I'd get for my Canon 6D).

Yep, sounds very reasonable Sean, I am hoping you are absolutely correct and Wide Lens will not have an issue on the Nex FF…very encouraging what you wrote…thanks...

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Olymore
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Re: forecast
In reply to forpetessake, 9 months ago

For the last 150 years sensor/film size has progressively got smaller, for mainstream photography, as technology has improved.

From large plates all the way down to APSC.

I would be more inclined to put a bet on 1" size sensors being the standard for keen photographers in ten years time. The current move to 35mm size sensors is a minor blip in that sequence due to the falling price of these cameras. It won't last long and is only affecting a small part of the market (up from 5% to 8% of ILC sales so far) .

In fact as phone cameras are improving at such a rate and as the sensors are the most efficient available, even smalller sensors will likely be used and software used to create the approriate DOF requirements.

After all it was only a few years ago that using software to correct lens aberrations was frowned upon and now it is more or less accepted.

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toporossa
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Re: utterly silly statement ...
In reply to EarthQuake, 9 months ago
Where things get silly is when you try to put a telephoto lens on a FF mirrorless camera. Good luck with a 200-600mm lens on a mirrorless FF camera hehe.

Since the FF Nex will share the same E-mount with it's predecessors it'll be possible to combine FF primes with APS-C zooms  - an attractive option if the available Nex lenses wouldn't be optically rather poor compared to MFT.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: forecast
In reply to Olymore, 9 months ago

Olymore wrote:

For the last 150 years sensor/film size has progressively got smaller, for mainstream photography, as technology has improved.

From large plates all the way down to APSC.

I would be more inclined to put a bet on 1" size sensors being the standard for keen photographers in ten years time. The current move to 35mm size sensors is a minor blip in that sequence due to the falling price of these cameras. It won't last long and is only affecting a small part of the market (up from 5% to 8% of ILC sales so far) .

In fact as phone cameras are improving at such a rate and as the sensors are the most efficient available, even smalller sensors will likely be used and software used to create the approriate DOF requirements.

After all it was only a few years ago that using software to correct lens aberrations was frowned upon and now it is more or less accepted.

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Problem with small sensors is speed and DOF. Only way I see small sensors proliferating is if they are made with in-body speed boosters to work with FX lenses. But an FX sensor is not really a huge part of the cost... no real reason to get rid of it.

I think there will always be a range of sensor sizes, but it will probably be limited to 1", MFT, APS-C, FF and MF. Each will continue in its role. I do think FF will become more mainstream/affordable, and cameras like the NEX-7, D71000, 7D etc will go by the way side

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sean lancaster
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Re: forecast
In reply to Olymore, 9 months ago

Olymore wrote:

For the last 150 years sensor/film size has progressively got smaller, for mainstream photography, as technology has improved.

From large plates all the way down to APSC.

I would be more inclined to put a bet on 1" size sensors being the standard for keen photographers in ten years time. The current move to 35mm size sensors is a minor blip in that sequence due to the falling price of these cameras. It won't last long and is only affecting a small part of the market (up from 5% to 8% of ILC sales so far) .

In fact as phone cameras are improving at such a rate and as the sensors are the most efficient available, even smalller sensors will likely be used and software used to create the approriate DOF requirements.

After all it was only a few years ago that using software to correct lens aberrations was frowned upon and now it is more or less accepted.

Sensor size still largely determines depth of field (along with lens) - and assuming we're shooting the same field of view and same subject. For people who like a shallow depth of field then phone sized sensors are not making progress. Neither are micro 4/3 camera. Neither are APS-C cameras. Full Frame is still the best affordable option to get shallow depth of field and subject separation and it hasn't changed as smaller sized sensors otherwise improve.

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amalric
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In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

Olymore wrote:

For the last 150 years sensor/film size has progressively got smaller, for mainstream photography, as technology has improved.

From large plates all the way down to APSC.

I would be more inclined to put a bet on 1" size sensors being the standard for keen photographers in ten years time. The current move to 35mm size sensors is a minor blip in that sequence due to the falling price of these cameras. It won't last long and is only affecting a small part of the market (up from 5% to 8% of ILC sales so far) .

In fact as phone cameras are improving at such a rate and as the sensors are the most efficient available, even smalller sensors will likely be used and software used to create the approriate DOF requirements.

After all it was only a few years ago that using software to correct lens aberrations was frowned upon and now it is more or less accepted.

Sensor size still largely determines depth of field (along with lens) - and assuming we're shooting the same field of view and same subject. For people who like a shallow depth of field then phone sized sensors are not making progress. Neither are micro 4/3 camera. Neither are APS-C cameras. Full Frame is still the best affordable option to get shallow depth of field and subject separation and it hasn't changed as smaller sized sensors otherwise improve.

I have always wondered what people do here if they need shallow DOF. Logic would require that people chose m4/3 because they want MORE DOF.

That has been the aim of photographers for a century and more. Having less DOF has been just a special requirement for PORTRAIT, and not always. Indeed some of the best, have been Environmental Portraits, which require DOF.

For MY purposes, I see 35mm, and its bigger files as an option for LANDSCAPE. However due to the pixel sharprness reached by m4/3 it might not even be a REQUIREMENT unless it belongs to some agency or stock agent.

Having a smaller sensor allows m4/3 to offer a set of features that will be less easily achieved with 35mm. Reactiveness, fast focus, new digital features, one should be familiar by frequenting this forum, and others.

it would be nice if people learned to de-emphasize photographic commonplaces, and learned to keep their powders dry, knowing full well why they chose this particular format...

Am.

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