Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?

Started Oct 4, 2013 | Discussions
dgreene196
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Re: Can't afford it anyway and better options for me.
In reply to kcamacho11, Oct 4, 2013

I wonder how many native lenses will be available immediately.

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tesilab
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 4, 2013

Ever camera that gets made that improves the technology over what you have will ultimately benefit you in every way except your investment in cameras. We all know the cameras will become worthless, while the lenses live on as long as the mount lives (or longer in some cases).

You M4/3 lenses will remain very nice lenses. One day you'll get a much nicer M4/3 camera than you can currently conceive which gives you even better results with the same lenses. And they will remain smaller and lighter than full frame equivalents in most cases.

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webber15
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 4, 2013

BonoBox wrote:

i joined m4/3 mainly to avoid big camera and lenses....and honestly this advantage is reducing step by step (DSLR getting smaller and m4/3 getting bigger).

having said that i would prefer panasonic or olympus to announce such news instead of sony and their e-mount system

If olympus abandoned m4/3 then if I needed a new camera my 75-300 lens would no longer reach 600mm,,,put your silly ideas somewhere else...ffs...

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dennis tennis
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Re: until Oly or Pany makes FF
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Oct 4, 2013

poo poo FF mirrorless, huge body, huge lenses..

until Oly or Pany announces they will make it and the fanboys here will applaud Oly and Pany for giving users "a choice" and choice is a good thing.

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nevada5
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Rumor???
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 4, 2013

BonoBox wrote:

this is a really bad news!! after all the money invested in the m4/3 system

i hope the rumors are not real

Sony full frame compact

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webber15
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Re: until Oly or Pany makes FF
In reply to dennis tennis, Oct 4, 2013

dennis tennis wrote:

poo poo FF mirrorless, huge body, huge lenses..

until Oly or Pany announces they will make it and the fanboys here will applaud Oly and Pany for giving users "a choice" and choice is a good thing.

They have a choice,,from canon,nikon,sony...

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DT200
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I only see 3 so far
In reply to dgreene196, Oct 4, 2013

dgreene196 wrote:

I wonder how many native lenses will be available immediately.

They are not cheap and to keep the size down, Sony seems to be limiting the apertures except maybe on an F/1.8 55mm lens.

What really drives me away is there is nothing in what I consider the standard portrait range of 85mm to 135mm, as well as nothing long enough to shoot pics at events (I normally need 100-200mm).

I also worry this is another Sony format that is not very compatible with all their others.  Which one will last, which one will get dropped and which one will get little support?

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EarthQuake
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Re: I only see 3 so far
In reply to DT200, Oct 4, 2013

DT200 wrote:

dgreene196 wrote:

I wonder how many native lenses will be available immediately.

They are not cheap and to keep the size down, Sony seems to be limiting the apertures except maybe on an F/1.8 55mm lens.

What really drives me away is there is nothing in what I consider the standard portrait range of 85mm to 135mm, as well as nothing long enough to shoot pics at events (I normally need 100-200mm).

I also worry this is another Sony format that is not very compatible with all their others. Which one will last, which one will get dropped and which one will get little support?

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

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webber15
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 4, 2013

BonoBox wrote:

i joined m4/3 mainly to avoid big camera and lenses....and honestly this advantage is reducing step by step (DSLR getting smaller and m4/3 getting bigger).

having said that i would prefer panasonic or olympus to announce such news instead of sony and their e-mount system

Wrong on your first statment too,,the em5(which i own) is smaller than the smallest DSLR,,whilst the em1 is smaller than the Nikon d7100 or the canon eos7D with which you could compare for similar spec/price...You might get something right oneday!!!

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dennis tennis
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Re: until Oly or Pany makes FF
In reply to webber15, Oct 4, 2013

webber15 wrote:

dennis tennis wrote:

poo poo FF mirrorless, huge body, huge lenses..

until Oly or Pany announces they will make it and the fanboys here will applaud Oly and Pany for giving users "a choice" and choice is a good thing.

They have a choice,,from canon,nikon,sony...

I desperately need Oly and Pany to make cameras and lens for me to buy so that I can feel good about myself.

People who own other brands are evil, they probbly kick their dogs each time they pick up or put down their cameras.  I'm sure of it.

I get depressed if DPR doesn't give a Gold when a review an mFT body.

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Lab D
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The lenses are too big
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 4, 2013

I am trying to get away from those big lenses.

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Lab D
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aps and alpha mount
In reply to EarthQuake, Oct 4, 2013

EarthQuake wrote:

DT200 wrote:

dgreene196 wrote:

I wonder how many native lenses will be available immediately.

They are not cheap and to keep the size down, Sony seems to be limiting the apertures except maybe on an F/1.8 55mm lens.

What really drives me away is there is nothing in what I consider the standard portrait range of 85mm to 135mm, as well as nothing long enough to shoot pics at events (I normally need 100-200mm).

I also worry this is another Sony format that is not very compatible with all their others. Which one will last, which one will get dropped and which one will get little support?

An 85 has been shown/rumored as well, probably an 85/1.8 though it hasn't been confirmed that this is a FF lens (it would be really surprising if it isnt).

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-first-picture-of-the-85mm-f1-8-e-mount-lens/

From rumors, it seems like there will be 4-5 FF e-mount lenses.

35/2.8

55/1.8

85/1.8

zoom of some sort, 28-70/4? or 24-70/2.8 or 4?

and a tele, 70-400? though this seems a bit nuts

Some of those may be aps and some alpha mount.  Sony has too many formats so I am staying away.

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Chez Wimpy
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to AndyGM, Oct 4, 2013

AndyGM wrote:

Also you don't see rangefinder lenses longer than 135mm, partly because they'd block the view of the viewfinder, and partly because the size advantage goes away the longer the focal length.

I am pretty sure neither of these reasons is correct.  The problem is in framing and focusing with such a lens where the rangefinder window is usually in the 28-35mm FOV (beyond 135mm, you would have frameline the same general size as the focus patch).  An external VF works well enough for framing, but the focusing problem remains.  It wasn't as if RF users didn't want to use longer focal lengths because they were "too big," but they really didn't have a choice without TTL solutions.  SLRs pretty much solved that problem from the 1960s onwards.

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masticina
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 5, 2013

I don't see how that would work. The e-mount was designed for crop sensors and crop sensor lenses. There is little ability to get full frame out of that.

Second ever seen a full frame lens, I got a tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and.. I like that lens but its not a very small mobile lens. Primes are smaller...

And if one has to go full frame lens the body better offers allot of grip aka, a SLR body style. Full frame also means I want quick access to functions so please buttons.

So it would need a new mount, bigger  and heavier lenses, a bigger body with more grip. Of course a full frame sensor.. ya know why not just buy an A99?

So I don't see it happen. It makes no sense at all, MFT still wins when it comes to size, performance, quality in a great combination. Yes the sensors are not as good as APS-C sized sensors I get it but they are very easy to take places, don't weight much, have great image quality for what they have and more.

Nex, nex is nice to but one should never expect wonders. Nex is small yes, until you put that 18-55 or 18-200 on it.

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honeyiscool
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to masticina, Oct 5, 2013

masticina wrote:

I don't see how that would work. The e-mount was designed for crop sensors and crop sensor lenses. There is little ability to get full frame out of that.

This is seriously still in doubt? How do you explain the full frame E-mount NEX-VG900 that already exists?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892256-REG/Sony_NEX_VG900_Full_Frame_Interchangeable_Lens.html

I can't believe this camera has been on the market for how long and people are still questioning whether full frame E-mount is possible. It's like those people who questioned that sustained flight was possible even after the Wright brothers did it.

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Chez Wimpy
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I'm getting one
In reply to EarthQuake, Oct 5, 2013

EarthQuake wrote:

If you shoot wide-short telephoto the lens don't need to be that much bigger, sure they will be bigger, but you can also say, get more use out of a F2 prime on a FF sensor than a F1.4 prime on a M43rds sensor (better noise perf on FF means you can up ISO higher, F2 gives more DOF control than F1.4 on MFT).

In my case, the main issue is that Canon has stubbornly refused to advance their camera sensors over the last nine years (my 20D, on the pixel level, is about the same as the 5D3 which shares the same pixel pitch) even if that meant buying from a competitor.  Low DR, Banding, shadow burlap patterns and low-ISO venitian blind-looking skies have been the limiting factor in my FF landscapes for years.  Canon also produces wonderful lenses, in particular a number of recent "mark 2's" as well as their TSE lineup... the promise of a 36MP "holy Sony sensor" of D800 fame means finally having a world-class landscape solution for EF mount shooters.  I also like the promise of smaller primes and a portable wide-normal shooting DOF controlling camera... the only problem is @ 75mb per RAW image (with 30ish of those 36MP being outside of DOF anyway) makes almost no sense to me for event photography when even my 5D2 does just fine with "people pictures" in the 5MP setting of sRAW.  I am not shooting national geographic!  So, outside of a setting for scaled resolutions and RAW exposure/WB control, I am really in the market for two cameras ... which makes almost no financial sense.  The 36MP "digital back" is probably going to be my only purchase into the system (unless their 28-70 can actually make it sing) for a long while.

Where things get silly is when you try to put a telephoto lens on a FF mirrorless camera. Good luck with a 200-600mm lens on a mirrorless FF camera hehe.

Yes, I don't think my EM5+45-175x is going anywhere!

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masticina
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to honeyiscool, Oct 5, 2013

Mmm a video nex you say. Well that you go don't really follow the video side. Right so it is possible, situation stays that FF lenses are bigger and heavier. And that once you add the needed grip you end up with an SLT body anyway.

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sean lancaster
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Re: The lenses are too big
In reply to Lab D, Oct 5, 2013

Lab D wrote:

I am trying to get away from those big lenses.

I shoot a Canon 6D, but I can put on a 40/2.8 pancake lens when I want to go small. This gives me the frame of view that m4/3 gets with a 20/1.4 lens. I see there is a Panny 20/1.7, so that would be close. My 40 is a quality full frame lens and the dimensions are very, very close the near equivalent on m4/3.

Canon 40/2.8

Filter Thread Front: 52 mm

Dimensions (DxL) Approx. 2.7 x 0.9" (6.86 x 2.29 cm)

Weight 4.6 oz (130 g)

and

Panny 20/1.7

Filter Thread 46 mm

Dimensions (DxL) Approx. 2.48 x 1.0" (6.30 x 2.54 cm)

Weight 3.5 oz (99 g)

Now, I also shoot a Sigma 35/1.4 and it's huge. Sigh. But the Voigtlander 35/1.4 I had on my mirrorless was a full frame fast 35 and it wasn't large (and wasn't AF either). I suspect Sony is going to work very hard to keep lens sizes from getting out of hand for their small FF cameras.

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Chez Wimpy
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to masticina, Oct 5, 2013

masticina wrote:

Right so it is possible, situation stays that FF lenses are bigger and heavier. And that once you add the needed grip you end up with an SLT body anyway.

Once you start adding large lenses, it gets large... I imagine any 70-200/2.8 + soap-bar camera is going to be the worst balancing standard lens combination in the history of interchangeable lens camera systems (IIRC one of their current superzooms routinely breaks the tripod mount on their cameras due to the cantilever stress). Small WA-long normal primes, if they are brighter than their APS-C equivalents, will be the FF-NEX raison d'etre.

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?
In reply to BonoBox, Oct 5, 2013

BonoBox wrote:

i joined m4/3 mainly to avoid big camera and lenses....and honestly this advantage is reducing step by step (DSLR getting smaller and m4/3 getting bigger).

having said that i would prefer panasonic or olympus to announce such news instead of sony and their e-mount system

Olympus & Panasonic need to focus on making their m4/3 cameras profitable. The last thing they need is to get involved in a high risk and expensive effort to compete for FF market share.

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