Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison

Started Oct 4, 2013 | Discussions
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to stimpy, Oct 7, 2013

Of course I should know better than to come on here and defend another system.

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bowportes
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to stimpy, Oct 7, 2013

stimpy wrote:

bowportes wrote:

stimpy wrote:

I don't get m43 at all. I had a G3 for a few months and all that happened was I lost interest in photography.

Now I see the latest whizz bang Olympus body selling for more than a good Fuji with lens. It makes me laugh.

Eh? What don't you get?

Take the gx7 it's a small discrete ilc camera much like the xe1 with very similar iq in the real world.

The only real difference is ibis, fast and accurate af and decent video.

You have certainly identified the GX-7 advantages, but those aren't the only real differences. The Fuji has the advantage of a larger sensor, shallower depth of field, superior glass (especially on the "kit" zoom), better out-of-camera JPEG colors, wider dynamic range, and (IMO) a superior control model to the standard PASM model.

But you are listing technical differences, yes the sensor is slightly larger and the dynamic range slightly wider (though isn't the om-d and X100 the same according to DXO Mark?). Glass is very subjective, to rule out every possible lens for m43 inc leica is a bit naive; but no matter, if you feel it's better for you it's still impossible to demonstrate because most of it is just technical details that in all honesty do not relate to better or worse photos in 99.9% of cases, and if they do I'd love to be proved wrong and shown clear evidence.

Don't get me wrong, I love my X100 and will probably be buying the XE2 shortly, but as much as I love my Fuji's I can't see a major difference to some m43 setups, so I just don't get the guys like the OP who claim they could not get any decent photos with m43 and even go so far as to say the system them from photography.

That's a fairly dramatic statement haha.

I owned a Panasonic G1, GH1, GH2, GX1, and G5, and an Olympus EPL5, and I especially liked the GH2 and G5.  The multi-zone auto focus of those cameras runs circles around my X-E1, and their video was tons better.

I took plenty of good photos with them, but never found the OOC colors (especially from the Olympus) particularly appealing, and the JPEG dynamic range always seemed limited, with highlights too easily blown.

I'm having more fun with the Fuji cameras, but they appeal to the "methodical photographer" in me more than to the "quick snapper."

I agree that one can get incredible photos with either of these camera systems.  And by the way, the Fuji X-A1 and X-M1 (with pancake) are more pocketable than the Panasonic GX-7 (with pancake), I believe.

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CAcreeks
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Defending M43, weight and size
In reply to stimpy, Oct 7, 2013

stimpy wrote:

Of course I should know better than to come on here and defend another system.

Ha ha!

The Panasonic GF6 or GX7 with 14-140 lens is an amazing piece of technology that can probably not be duplicated by an XF system.

Trouble is (as previously stated) Panasonic JPEG colors are icky, and even the Raw conversions seem a big off, for unknown reasons, because you would think Adobe can make them look the same as Olympus Raw conversions. Moreover Panasonic has no option to produce an S-shaped tone curve with roll-off in the highlights. Olympus has this ability, but their M43 models are either overpriced or flawed, IMO.

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CAcreeks
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Re: bogus M43 (Olympus) critique?
In reply to bowportes, Oct 7, 2013

bowportes wrote:

I owned a Panasonic G1, GH1, GH2, GX1, and G5, and an Olympus EPL5, and I especially liked the GH2 and G5. The multi-zone auto focus of those cameras runs circles around my X-E1, and their video was tons better.

I took plenty of good photos with them, but never found the OOC colors (especially from the Olympus) particularly appealing, and the JPEG dynamic range always seemed limited, with highlights too easily blown.

That is a lot of cameras to own!

Did you not try Gradation=Auto on your EPL5?

I don't think it worked well before the new sensor, and Panasonic never had it and still doesn't.

Based on DPreview dynamic range charts, Auto Gradation works better than EXR to preserve both shadows and highlights.

It sounds like you didn't spend enough time with the manual...

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Randy Benter
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to sibyy, Oct 8, 2013

Size and weight are the same. More importantly they have both have one "X" in the model number.

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Activatedfx
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to stimpy, Oct 8, 2013

stimpy wrote:

The difference between, lets say an OM-D and X100, is so minute I cannot believe anyone could struggle to take a satisfactory photos with one system but not the other.

I was a happy OM-D owner. Many hundreds of pictures that I was VERY happy with. I picked up an X100 last December on a whim, and took it along on a week-long ski trip. After the 1st day, the OM-D stayed in the room, and I took about 1,000 shots with the X100 that I STILL look back at with a smile on my face. Just something about them that was more pleasing to me. The camera (and lens) can certainly make a difference in the final image, or there wouldn't be so many different ones to choose from.

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57even
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to sibyy, Oct 8, 2013

sibyy wrote:

While I'm currently an all Fuji camera owner, I still have a special place in my heart of m43. My first foray into the mirrorless world was the GF1 and I had owned a number of other cameras including the E-M5. So I continuously keep an eye on m43 gear and do suffer from the occasional gadget lust.

Now I've always thought that I've given up some portability for image quality going with Fuji (over m43) and the latest GX7 has made me think of adding a m43 camera in cases where I need a more compact package.

To help me make a comparison, I've compiled the below table that includes the cameras and lenses that I would consider (I know some lenses etc. are not here but this was for my own use) and decide to share it with you.

My takeaway is that there aren't any big gains in terms of size and weight going from Fuji to m43. The X-E1 is the lightest of the 4 cameras having a built-in EVF and the Fuji27mm is actually lighter and smaller than the Panasonic 20mm (though slower).

I agree. The Fuji lenses are usually faster, combined with a larger sensor, giving a stop difference between the same relative FL.

Very few MFT lenses offer reasonable background isolation.

Besides, anything smaller than an Xe1 rapidly becomes fiddly to use. I still prefer the Xpro1 for that reason. Size is less important that weight, and the Pro1 is quite light. It fits in all the same bags I have for the Xe1 so going smaller buys me nothing.

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bowportes
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Re: bogus M43 (Olympus) critique?
In reply to CAcreeks, Oct 8, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

bowportes wrote:

I owned a Panasonic G1, GH1, GH2, GX1, and G5, and an Olympus EPL5, and I especially liked the GH2 and G5. The multi-zone auto focus of those cameras runs circles around my X-E1, and their video was tons better.

I took plenty of good photos with them, but never found the OOC colors (especially from the Olympus) particularly appealing, and the JPEG dynamic range always seemed limited, with highlights too easily blown.

That is a lot of cameras to own!

Did you not try Gradation=Auto on your EPL5?

I don't think it worked well before the new sensor, and Panasonic never had it and still doesn't.

Based on DPreview dynamic range charts, Auto Gradation works better than EXR to preserve both shadows and highlights.

It sounds like you didn't spend enough time with the manual...

I ALWAYS spend enough time with the manuals.  I love manuals.

Frankly, I didn't care for the over-saturated, warmish slant of Olympus colors.... Actually preferred the Panasonic colors, which seemed more natural OOC to me.  Just a personal preference.  But Panny too often blew highlights.  I don't have that issue with the Fuji cameras.

I also thought the LCD on the EPL5 was absurdly small.  A corner of the LCD screen cracked in my camera bag.  Just didn't have a good experience with Olympus... I found the G-series Panny cameras much more enjoyable to shoot with.  Still own the G5.

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CAcreeks
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Re: valid critique of Olympus colors?
In reply to bowportes, Oct 8, 2013

bowportes wrote:

Frankly, I didn't care for the over-saturated, warmish slant of Olympus colors.... Actually preferred the Panasonic colors, which seemed more natural OOC to me. Just a personal preference. But Panny too often blew highlights. I don't have that issue with the Fuji cameras.

Olympus auto white balance (AWB) often seems too yellow for me, especially in non-daylight conditions. Is this similar to what you are saying? Also reds are oversaturated, often with blown channel in the JPEG. But blue sky and green foliage are always nicely rendered. I do not share you enthusiasm for Panasonic JPEG colors.

I also thought the LCD on the EPL5 was absurdly small. A corner of the LCD screen cracked in my camera bag. Just didn't have a good experience with Olympus... I found the G-series Panny cameras much more enjoyable to shoot with. Still own the G5.

Yes, the EPL5 is flawed for that reason (stupid aspect ratio and low resolution LCD) and many others. Wow, a corner of the LCD cracked, that is bad.

Panasonic G/GF/GX models look great, feel great, have great feature sets, etc. Too bad they don't produce Fuji-like results.

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marvin t martian
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Re: valid critique of Olympus colors?
In reply to CAcreeks, Oct 8, 2013
Olympus auto white balance (AWB) often seems too yellow for me, especially in non-daylight conditions.

In fairness to Olympus -- did you turn off the 'keep warm' option?

For whatever reason, out-of-the-box Olympus cameras are set to use overly warm WB under incandescent lighting.

Yes, the EPL5 is flawed for that reason (stupid aspect ratio and low resolution LCD) and many others.

For me, the fatal flaws with the E-PL5 are shutter shock and the dysfunctional IBIS. Usability issues can be worked around, but IQ flaws are a different matter entirely.

The E-PL5's CDAF is still vastly superior to CDAF on the X-series platform, however. Fuji should be embarrassed that even bottom of the market m43 cameras have better AF than their high-end products.

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bowportes
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Re: valid critique of Olympus colors?
In reply to CAcreeks, Oct 8, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

bowportes wrote:

Frankly, I didn't care for the over-saturated, warmish slant of Olympus colors.... Actually preferred the Panasonic colors, which seemed more natural OOC to me. Just a personal preference. But Panny too often blew highlights. I don't have that issue with the Fuji cameras.

Olympus auto white balance (AWB) often seems too yellow for me, especially in non-daylight conditions. Is this similar to what you are saying? Also reds are oversaturated, often with blown channel in the JPEG. But blue sky and green foliage are always nicely rendered. I do not share you enthusiasm for Panasonic JPEG colors.

I also thought the LCD on the EPL5 was absurdly small. A corner of the LCD screen cracked in my camera bag. Just didn't have a good experience with Olympus... I found the G-series Panny cameras much more enjoyable to shoot with. Still own the G5.

Yes, the EPL5 is flawed for that reason (stupid aspect ratio and low resolution LCD) and many others. Wow, a corner of the LCD cracked, that is bad.

Panasonic G/GF/GX models look great, feel great, have great feature sets, etc. Too bad they don't produce Fuji-like results.

I always shot RAW with Pannies and could get very nice results/colors/detail that way.  But Fuji gives me even better results, often without post-processing.

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CAcreeks
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Re: valid critique of Olympus colors?
In reply to marvin t martian, Oct 8, 2013

marvin t martian wrote:

Olympus auto white balance (AWB) often seems too yellow, especially in non-daylight conditions.

In fairness to Olympus -- did you turn off the 'keep warm' option? For whatever reason, out-of-the-box Olympus cameras are set to use overly warm WB under incandescent lighting.

I doubt my friend did this. Thanks, news to me.

For me, the fatal flaws with the E-PL5 are shutter shock and the dysfunctional IBIS. Usability issues can be worked around, but IQ flaws are a different matter entirely.

I missed reports of dysfunctional IBIS - I will have to research this.

The E-PL5's CDAF is still vastly superior to CDAF on the X-series platform, however. Fuji should be embarrassed that even bottom of the market m43 cameras have better AF than their high-end products.

Right, and a recent Fuji P&S model, the F900EXR, is even faster than M43 autofocus. It has on-chip PDAF.

According to I-R.com performance testing, the X-E1 (latest model reviewed) takes .438 second to autofocus, versus .221 second for the E-PL5 (both single-area with kit zoom).

The 16-50 lens seems to focus a bit faster. DPR's X-M1 review says .3 second at wide angle, .6 second at telephoto.

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Jim Evidon
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to sibyy, Oct 10, 2013

E-M5 body w/o lens 444g

X-Pro-1 Body w/o lens 482g

Jim

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Plastek
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to Activatedfx, Oct 10, 2013

Activatedfx wrote:

stimpy wrote:

The difference between, lets say an OM-D and X100, is so minute I cannot believe anyone could struggle to take a satisfactory photos with one system but not the other.

I was a happy OM-D owner. Many hundreds of pictures that I was VERY happy with. I picked up an X100 last December on a whim, and took it along on a week-long ski trip. After the 1st day, the OM-D stayed in the room, and I took about 1,000 shots with the X100 that I STILL look back at with a smile on my face. Just something about them that was more pleasing to me. The camera (and lens) can certainly make a difference in the final image, or there wouldn't be so many different ones to choose from.

Totally agreed.

I got similar impressions, only with X-PRO 1 vs X100s. X-Pro 1 felt clunky and as big as a DSLR, while offering far fewer lenses, so I never was tempted to pick it on a trip instead of my A77. X100s on the other hand feels small and quick, being much nicer camera to use and enjoy for random travel photography - even though it offers only one (brilliant) lens.

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Keit ll
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to andyjayscott, Oct 10, 2013

andyjayscott wrote:

I don't get m43 at all. I had a G3 for a few months and all that happened was I lost interest in photography.

Now I see the latest whizz bang Olympus body selling for more than a good Fuji with lens. It makes me laugh.

I presume you mean the new Olympus OMD -M1 ? The G3 is a different camera , to be fair not all m4/3 rds are the same.

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oly-pl1
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to Keit ll, Oct 10, 2013

Thank you for this list !
I made small update:

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andyjayscott
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to Keit ll, Oct 12, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

andyjayscott wrote:

I don't get m43 at all. I had a G3 for a few months and all that happened was I lost interest in photography.

Now I see the latest whizz bang Olympus body selling for more than a good Fuji with lens. It makes me laugh.

I presume you mean the new Olympus OMD -M1 ? The G3 is a different camera , to be fair not all m4/3 rds are the same.

Yeah, I'm sure it's a nice camera but the price makes me laugh. I waited a year before buying the X100 because the launch price made me laugh, too. It also took me a fair bit of time to get over myself at the hipster retro-ness of it, heh.

Anyhow, to the rest, I'm not sure what's complicated about me not getting any pics I like from the G3. It's a subjective opinion and it's true for me. G3 - barely any keepers and the ones I did keep are simply alright, X100 - I almost have to limit how many pics I take since they're almost all keepers.

All this really means is that I found a digicam which suits me. I'm not even that interested in any other Fuji gear, either. I'm sure they're all great but I have the camera which does what I want. I have to go back to around 1980 and film cameras to recall the last time I actually enjoyed photography enough to get me out of bed. I had an LX3 for a while which was fun, sort of, but was often pretty nasty in terms of clarity. I ended up using it only for distorted, blurred, over-processed, 'incorrect' art stuff, which, btw, I find the x100 also excels at.

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JakeB
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to Red5TX, Oct 12, 2013

Red5TX wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Red5TX wrote:

stimpy wrote:

andyjayscott wrote:

stimpy wrote:

I don't get m43 at all. I had a G3 for a few months and all that happened was I lost interest in photography.

Now I see the latest whizz bang Olympus body selling for more than a good Fuji with lens. It makes me laugh.

Eh? What don't you get?

Take the gx7 it's a small discrete ilc camera much like the xe1 with very similar iq in the real world.

The only real difference is ibis, fast and accurate af and decent video.

I didn't take any pictures I liked, had no fun using it, and all but quit photography altogether.

Obviously that's just my experience with the one m43 camera but it put me right off.

I bought the X100 and it all changed

That is sad to hear if you can only get good photos with one type of camera, I'd hate that. Strange too as I'd bet good money you can't tell the difference between several photos taken with m43 and an X camera.

People can absolutely gel with one camera and not another. It's also possible that the extra 2/3 stop improvement in DOF makes a tangible difference in the way he perceives his photographs. If cameras don't matter, we should all go on shooting with our smart phones and be done with it.

No, very doubtful a 2/3 stop in DOF made any difference to 'not getting any photos he liked'.
The difference between, lets say an OM-D and X100, is so minute I cannot believe anyone could struggle to take a satisfactory photos with one system but not the other.

As I own both, I'd happily upload a selection of photos taken with each. If the difference is that obvious you should have no issue in identifying which are taken with an X100 and which aren't.

No thanks. The guy gave his honest, subjective impression of the two cameras. I shot extensively with m43 before moving to Fuji and, like him, I'm much more pleased with the output. Maybe it's all in our heads. Who knows. But getting into an internet pixel peeping contest probably isn't going to change my mind or yours.

Well said, Red.

Great to hear the voice of reason every once in a while.

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DAndison
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Re: Fuji X vs M43 weight and size comparison
In reply to junyo, Oct 12, 2013

junyo wrote:

Red5TX wrote:

APS-C becomes a size disadvantage as you get into longer-range zooms. The Fuji 55-200 is gigantic compared to the Olympus 40-150, which covers the same range. Of course, it's also a better lens.

I agree that the size difference is not substantial enough to matter for standard zooms and most primes.

Agreed, which is why I personally question the logic of buying a small system and then wanting long focal length, large aperture lenses for it. Once you get past 100-135mm you should be looking at an SLR.

But I'm not a birder/hiker/wildlife photographer and my general need for long teles is pretty non-existent so I probably don't understand.

I'm a mountain and outdoor photographer and love the weight saving..... even with the 55-200. The weight of my previous 5dmkii and 100-400L, 17-40L is more than 500g more than the X Pro, 14mm, 35mm, 60mm, 18-55 & 55-200.

In reality, I take the 14, 18-55 & 55-200 when climbing in the alps, Andes or the UK so I have a nice weight saving without losing out on quality! Camera and lens attached to backpack and a lens in each side pocket of the backpack, easily accessible when moving. That lens line up and quality is perfect..... for me anyway!!

Everyone has different needs and it is great that Fuji has provided options for people. I left Sony Nex because of the below par lens capabilities, especially long lenses.

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