SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Bob Tullis
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to happysnapper64, 9 months ago

happysnapper64 wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

I have been held up several times by pedal cyclists & it can be a pain. The bikers could have pulled over & let the SUV through. However, I would like to know where the SUV driver was going that meant waiting a few minutes would spoil?

Impatience & lack of courtesy is rife on our roads today. They are a very dangerous place to be.

This event wasn't that at all. These bikers should all be run over. Yes, bikers aren't given enough consideration on the road all too often, and that's a big problem. I respect bikers - well, bikers that don't routinely put their lives and others in danger. You get a large crowd of young testosterone dripping young men together. . . any manner of idiocy is possible.

I understand the knee-jerk reaction in defense of this crowd of bikers, but. . .

Back to helmet cams - it was the footage from those cams that revealed what actually happened. Thank goodness, for justice will be served. Well, to a degree (some may escape Police involvement, and for some that might be a lucky thing, as they may relative innocents that won't join in such an event. Others will live to tempt fate on another day.)

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I wouldn't defend the actions of either group in this. Both behaved like hooligans. It's such a "not my fault" society we live in. Heaven help us!

Oh, BTW, it's a good bet that a fair section of the bikers were not "testosterone driven YOUNG men" either!

That good bet would seem to be negated by the facts.  My son is a biker, and I live where this occurred.  You have NO idea what you're talking about, respectfully.

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Bob Tullis
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to jvkelley, 9 months ago

jvkelley wrote:

zackiedawg wrote:

The one biker didn't necessarily deserve the punishment he got

I think he did. A couple broken legs is a reasonable price to pay for terrorizing a family.

That is an unknown, at least to me as I've followed this with great interest.  He could have been along for the ride, but not really taking part as the more aggressive participants did.

I hung with a group of friends growing up were for the most part pretty tame, maybe even lame.  ONE of our crowd, though, would get us into trouble in some manner or other  (until we wizened up).

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brianric
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to wombat661, 9 months ago

wombat661 wrote:

From what I read in various news account, the bikers were trying to shut down the highway. This dad was the only one resisting and still driving. You can see in all the video he was the only car on the road. From there on, is down hill.

The bikers were doing illegal things, yes. As a responsible dad with your wife and child in the car, I would have pulled over when everyone else were pulling over. Let the gang pass. Is just not worth the confrontation. Especially since he was celebrating their anniversary. Is not exactly a life and death situation that he really had to be at whatever place they were going. Celebrating five minutes latter probably would not have mattered.

To me, that is a major lapse of judgement on the dad's part. Is pointless to blame the bikers. You got your family with you, take care of your family before challenging these bikers.

That's like blaming the woman for getting rapped because she was wearing a mini skirt. Just be lucky for the bikers this wasn't Texas and the guy had a gun, as could legally shoot them all.

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ryansholl
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I wholeheartedly disagree
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

The biker that got bumped by the SUV did so because the biker had previously been following too closely to the SUV.  The SUV braking angered the biker who had to brake suddenly and then zoomed around and brake checked the SUV, getting tapped.  
As for having no reason to drive out of there, well that's just ridiculous.   He had his wife and little kid in the car and was trapped in by a group of people that had already broken a window and did, in fact, end up beating the p!ss out of him.

That biker put himself in harm's way by being involved with a bunch of morons.  The SUV driver was in the right here.

/biker as well

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stevo23
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to Mark B., 9 months ago

Mark B. wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

wombat661 wrote:

From what I read in various news account, the bikers were trying to shut down the highway. This dad was the only one resisting and still driving. You can see in all the video he was the only car on the road. From there on, is down hill.

Actually, he's not the only one. There's a white van that pushes through the group.

The bikers were doing illegal things, yes. As a responsible dad with your wife and child in the car, I would have pulled over when everyone else were pulling over. Let the gang pass. Is just not worth the confrontation. Especially since he was celebrating their anniversary. Is not exactly a life and death situation that he really had to be at whatever place they were going. Celebrating five minutes latter probably would not have mattered.

To me, that is a major lapse of judgement on the dad's part. Is pointless to blame the bikers. You got your family with you, take care of your family before challenging these bikers.

I think there's blame on both sides, but I can see no justification for plowing a biker under your SUV.

From the reports I heard, he did in fact stop after the one biker stopped short - w/o enough time for the SUV to avoid him - and got hit. Then, it appears bikers began slashing his tires. Would you stay there and wait patiently for the cops to come?

I still haven't confirmed the slashed tires. But even so, running away to save your tires doesn't justify plowing someone under.

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stevo23
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to Bob Tullis, 9 months ago

Bob Tullis wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

I have been held up several times by pedal cyclists & it can be a pain. The bikers could have pulled over & let the SUV through. However, I would like to know where the SUV driver was going that meant waiting a few minutes would spoil?

Impatience & lack of courtesy is rife on our roads today. They are a very dangerous place to be.

This event wasn't that at all. These bikers should all be run over.

You might want to withdraw that statement Bob...

Back to helmet cams - it was the footage from those cams that revealed what actually happened. Thank goodness, for justice will be served. Well, to a degree (some may escape Police involvement, and for some that might be a lucky thing, as they may relative innocents that won't join in such an event. Others will live to tempt fate on another day.)

Instant replay isn't always definitive.

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stevo23
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to zackiedawg, 9 months ago

zackiedawg wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

I have been held up several times by pedal cyclists & it can be a pain. The bikers could have pulled over & let the SUV through. However, I would like to know where the SUV driver was going that meant waiting a few minutes would spoil?

Actually, it wasn't that he was being held up by a motorcycle driving along legally or normally, and the bikers couldn't let the SUV through, because they were in the act of illegally shutting down the highway - this is a new trend in some parts of the US, a road version of a flash mob. Cars and or bikers suddenly stop all traffic flow on a major highway, then start performing stunts in the middle of the road for a few minutes, then scatter before police can respond. They were apparently attempting such a shut down when a few cars decided to defy them, they apparently got angry, and started attacking one of the cars and trying to surround and stop him, then started assaulting the car when he panicked and hit the gas to get away.

I think the SUV actually tapped the one guy's tire. I think he was trying to slow the SUV down, perhaps a little too fast, and the SUV touched him. I think that's why they surrounded him.

The bikers were dead wrong and highly illegal. The driver was rash and panicked and caused injury in trying to get away. The one biker didn't necessarily deserve the punishment he got, but they all deserve to be fined/arrested, and the SUV driver didn't necessarily deserve the punishment he got, assaulted and attacked and then beaten by dozens of bikers.

I think there was blame all around.

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stevo23
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to Red5TX, 9 months ago

Red5TX wrote:

"SUV Runs Over Biker." That's a rich and extremely misleading title.

That's exactly what happened. Nothing misleading about it.

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stevo23
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to Cope, 9 months ago

Cope wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

By the way - I think there's blame on both sides here. The biker that got his wheel tapped by the SUV was being careless. But the SUV guy had no call to plow over a guy. And then there's the beating - that wasn't cool. Bad scene all the way around that gives us sedate riders a bad name.

Guess you didn't watch all of the footage. The biker got what he deserved.

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I don't think that's in the spirit of this forum. I'm trying to relate the facts without judgement. What did the biker do that deserved getting crushed by an SUV? That was a very deliberate act on the part of the driver - whether justified or not.

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stevo23
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Re: I wholeheartedly disagree
In reply to ryansholl, 9 months ago

ryansholl wrote:

The biker that got bumped by the SUV did so because the biker had previously been following too closely to the SUV. The SUV braking angered the biker who had to brake suddenly and then zoomed around and brake checked the SUV, getting tapped.
As for having no reason to drive out of there, well that's just ridiculous. He had his wife and little kid in the car and was trapped in by a group of people that had already broken a window and did, in fact, end up beating the p!ss out of him.

Was the window broken already? I don't think so, I think the windows were intact when they started chasing him down.

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stevo23
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Time out guys and gals - replay is inconclusive, right?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

We have three opinions here -

a) the bikers were in the wrong

b) the SUV was in the wrong

c) blame goes to both groups

What I find amazing here is that even with such a good replay available, the moral questions aren't easily answered. All they can establish is a rough idea of what happened. Attitudes and intent can't be determined from this helmet cam!

Also, I feel that police are very duplicitous these days. They arrest us for filming a parade because someone is "uncomfortable" with a camera or because the don't want us to put their abusive behavior on youtube. But when they have need, they're more than willing to accept a gopro cam from a biker whom they would have pulled over and arrested.

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MichaelKJ
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Re: But what about the issue of camera use?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

I think it's interesting that cops readily arrest people for filming their overzealous arrests and abuses, but are more than happy to use the helmet cam footage of a biker when they need to sort out an incident.

This was a case where the bikers posted the footage online.  Apparently, some of these groups get off on filming the disruption their mass bike events cause.  With a few exceptions, I'm against restrictions on the use of cameras in public.  However, in this case it would appear that you are defending the right to enhance one's enjoyment of their disruptive and possibly illegal behavior by filming it and posting it online.

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Beachcomber Joe
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

I still haven't confirmed the slashed tires. But even so, running away to save your tires doesn't justify plowing someone under.

Drivers wife and children in the vehicle.  Vehicle being surrounded by the bikers who appeared to intend to cause them harm.  What he did wrong was not backing up and taking a few more out after he ran over the first thug.  In states with stand your ground laws he would have been legally permitted to shoot the whole lot.

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ChazSelf
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

wombat661 wrote:

From what I read in various news account, the bikers were trying to shut down the highway. This dad was the only one resisting and still driving. You can see in all the video he was the only car on the road. From there on, is down hill.

Actually, he's not the only one. There's a white van that pushes through the group.

The bikers were doing illegal things, yes. As a responsible dad with your wife and child in the car, I would have pulled over when everyone else were pulling over. Let the gang pass. Is just not worth the confrontation. Especially since he was celebrating their anniversary. Is not exactly a life and death situation that he really had to be at whatever place they were going. Celebrating five minutes latter probably would not have mattered.

To me, that is a major lapse of judgement on the dad's part. Is pointless to blame the bikers. You got your family with you, take care of your family before challenging these bikers.

I think there's blame on both sides, but I can see no justification for plowing a biker under your SUV.

From the reports I heard, he did in fact stop after the one biker stopped short - w/o enough time for the SUV to avoid him - and got hit. Then, it appears bikers began slashing his tires. Would you stay there and wait patiently for the cops to come?

I still haven't confirmed the slashed tires. But even so, running away to save your tires doesn't justify plowing someone under.

I really doubt he was running over someone to protect his tires. These biker gangs have become a real problem in and around NYC. It was obvious that the biker who first got tapped by the SUV was slowing up and watching behind himself on purpose. It would be long ago, and in the NYC area, for me to have a young wife and child to protect, but God help the bikers who tried to do harm, or who appeared to be trying to do harm. This comes under the heading of karma, or TS.

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Red5TX
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Red5TX wrote:

"SUV Runs Over Biker." That's a rich and extremely misleading title.

That's exactly what happened. Nothing misleading about it.

"Thugs Surround Innocent Man and Family in SUV.  One Thug Run Over as Man Attempts to Escape."

^^Fixed it for ya.^^

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Private Custard
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Re: SUV Runs Over Biker, helmet cam to the rescue?
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

I don't think that's in the spirit of this forum. I'm trying to relate the facts without judgement. What did the biker do that deserved getting crushed by an SUV? That was a very deliberate act on the part of the driver - whether justified or not.

Well, let's see. He chose to ride with a very large group of people, most of which were illegal (lack of plates on a lot of them). Thanks to the internet, many people have managed to re-upload certain deleted videos, that show the group terrorising the general public by riding on the wrong side of the road, on sidewalks, and pretty much every motoring offence you can name. They tried to shut down a highway, and responded violently when someone disagreed.

They attacked a vehicle that contained a family, including a young child.

The guy that was driven over had ample time to disassociate himself from this group, but he didn't. That means he's either

a) a f*****g idiot

or b) a scumbag.

A little reading up on this guy shows that it's both (convictions for motoring offences, drugs, firearms etc...!)

The situation was engineered by the bikers, and they were too stupid to realise that playing chicken with a protective husband/father in a 2.5 tonne Range Rover was a bad idea.

No sympathy from me.....and I'm a biker too.

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Mako2011
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In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

ryansholl wrote:

The biker that got bumped by the SUV did so because the biker had previously been following too closely to the SUV. The SUV braking angered the biker who had to brake suddenly and then zoomed around and brake checked the SUV, getting tapped.
As for having no reason to drive out of there, well that's just ridiculous. He had his wife and little kid in the car and was trapped in by a group of people that had already broken a window and did, in fact, end up beating the p!ss out of him.

Was the window broken already? I don't think so, I think the windows were intact when they started chasing him down.

No, prior to the running over of the biker...they cornered the SUV and “They take their helmets and they start to dent his car and apparently his tires are slashed there with a knife" (according to the "Daily News") It appears that the SUV windows may have been cracked by the gang before the man was run over. I wish they had engaged a trucker in a big rig instead. I also wish this thread would get deleted as off topic

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ryansholl
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Re: I wholeheartedly disagree
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

Yes you're right, I had not been able to watch yet and was recalling from previous writeups on the incident that I'd read.  The video the OP posted doesn't give a shred of context that I've read elsewhere.

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zkz5
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happened to me
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

By the way - I think there's blame on both sides here. The biker that got his wheel tapped by the SUV was being careless. But the SUV guy had no call to plow over a guy. And then there's the beating - that wasn't cool. Bad scene all the way around that gives us sedate riders a bad name.

A while back I had a 4-5 of these morons stop near me at a red light and start revving their engines for no reason. I rolled my windows up and then they started shouting something. I said nothing and didn't even make eye contact. At the next red light they pull up next to me, one of them gets off and spits on my car, continues shouting, and starts repeatedly punching my window. Fortunately he didn't damage my window... just his own hand, I imagine. They left once I got on the phone and called the police.

In the instance recorded by this video, somehow I HIGHLY doubt that they were just calmly exchanging insurance information after they all stopped. I'm sure they gave the guy in the SUV every reason to plow through them.

I'm reading the NYPD is arresting the bikers, not the SUV driver. Sounds like this wasn't just road rage by the SUV driver. It's good to know I can legally defend myself if this ever happens again and they do break into my car.

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zkz5
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Re: happened to me
In reply to zkz5, 9 months ago

zkz5 wrote:

In the instance recorded by this video, somehow I HIGHLY doubt that they were just calmly exchanging insurance information after they all stopped. I'm sure they gave the guy in the SUV every reason to plow through them.

Confirmed:

"When Alexian Lien, the SUV driver, pulled to a stop, other bikers -- part of a group called Hollywood Stuntz -- surrounded the vehicle, hit it and spiked its tires, police said."

Also you have to love how the thug that filmed this youtube video conveniently shut the camera off when his fellow thug dragged the victim out of his car and started beating him:

"Police said the bikers then dragged Lien from the vehicle and beat him. His wife and daughter were unharmed."

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