Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

Started Oct 3, 2013 | Discussions
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davetj_uk Forum Member • Posts: 94
Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo
khaledgawdat Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

Canon is working on a medium format system, Nikon has a patent for a medium format lens. Seems that FF people think bigger not smaller is better
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K.Gawdat

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HSway
HSway Veteran Member • Posts: 3,076
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

I wouldn’t be surprised by MF development.

khaledgawdat wrote:

Canon is working on a medium format system, Nikon has a patent for a medium format lens.

Seems that FF people think bigger not smaller is better
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K.Gawdat

Very few people think smaller is better or bigger is better. But most everyone thinks that accurate is best. MF user included.

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,402
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

khaledgawdat wrote:

Canon is working on a medium format system, Nikon has a patent for a medium format lens. Seems that FF people think bigger not smaller is better
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K.Gawdat

I don't think its a "bigger is better" argument. It's a "we're seeing slowing sales and what can we do to create some action" thing. Notice how they're putting out new "niche" cameras like the A.

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sop51 Junior Member • Posts: 46
They should get back to their roots

Nikon once made excellent 120 RF camera lenses for other camera manufacturers; my old Plaubel Makina 670 with a Nikkor 80mm f/2.8 produces sharper images than a lot of the newer Fuji, Mamiya, Pentax, Schneider and Zeiss MF lenses I've owned.

Nikon produced some of the finest LF lenses till just a few years ago; I still use Nikkor 120 SW and 150 SW lenses for 8x10 work.  They also made some of the finest enlarging lenses; the 105 Apo El-Nikkor was considered by many to be the best MF enlarging lens ever made.

http://nikomat.org/priv/camera/mednikkor/index-e.html

Astrophotographer 10 Senior Member • Posts: 6,685
Re: They should get back to their roots

It makes sense from a marketing perspective. With FF prices coming down and FF mirrorless about to hit the markets MF seems an upgrade path for Canon/Nikon just like 5D paved the way for digital 35mm.

Greg.

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Steven-T
Steven-T Veteran Member • Posts: 3,353
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

davetj_uk wrote:

Is there any truth in this?

http://www.cameraegg.org/nikon-and-sony-will-show-medium-format-cameras-at-photoplus-expo/

Oh, make one with 645 Format, and scaleable to 66 (just using the whole image circle), with Hassy V lens adapter included, for say $3,500 body only?  You will get my business.

Just got 5 AIS f/1.2, f/1.4 lenses for my D800e, for the price of one Leica M 35mm f/2 cron.  Now I stand ready to add a Hv zoom (140-280 Schneider? 60-120? which first?), and a Hv-CZ 40mm, both for the price of a M 35/2Cron, to add to my existing Hv CZs.

Hurray, back to the good old days, with digital!

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Truman Prevatt
Truman Prevatt Veteran Member • Posts: 4,742
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

It reality it makes sense.  The first round of MF digital were simply retreaded MF SLR technology with a different back.  You have all the issues with a mirror box with MF SLR - except the mirror box is bigger cost more to build causes more vibration, etc.  With the mirror-less technology coming along, a MF digital based on a mirror-less design makes a lot of sense, would be less expensive to build.

There are a few hurdles. First sensor cost is proportional to the sensor area not the linear dimension of the sensor.  Secondly the EVF would have to be better than they are today and third new lenses would be required.  However, it would be a good move.

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Truman
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leicaman Veteran Member • Posts: 3,770
Re: It makes sense?
2

Why put so much R&D into a MF camera to open new market segments while seemingly commiting corporate suicide by totally ignore customer service and quality control thus alienating what had always been your loyal customer base?

I realize that the P&S market is going away... but it's still a huge misstep.

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CFynn Veteran Member • Posts: 5,224
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

Truman Prevatt wrote:

It reality it makes sense. The first round of MF digital were simply retreaded MF SLR technology with a different back. You have all the issues with a mirror box with MF SLR - except the mirror box is bigger cost more to build causes more vibration, etc. With the mirror-less technology coming along, a MF digital based on a mirror-less design makes a lot of sense, would be less expensive to build.

A MF mirrorless from Nikon would be nice. However it seems very unlikely. I'll only believe it when I see it

There are a few hurdles. First sensor cost is proportional to the sensor area not the linear dimension of the sensor.

Costs rise more than proportional to the area because the larger the area the less yield. A larger sensor is more likely to have a defect, and also there is more wasted space on a wafer with larger sensors . Manufacturing volume would likely be lower too - which also increases per unit costs.

Cost of lenses would be considerably higher too.

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CFynn Veteran Member • Posts: 5,224
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

davetj_uk wrote:

Is there any truth in this?

http://www.cameraegg.org/nikon-and-sony-will-show-medium-format-cameras-at-photoplus-expo/

This would only make sense if they believe  FX performance improvements will top out soon.

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Alan Brown
Alan Brown Veteran Member • Posts: 4,677
Those used to buying into this market...

CFynn wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

It reality it makes sense. The first round of MF digital were simply retreaded MF SLR technology with a different back. You have all the issues with a mirror box with MF SLR - except the mirror box is bigger cost more to build causes more vibration, etc. With the mirror-less technology coming along, a MF digital based on a mirror-less design makes a lot of sense, would be less expensive to build.

A MF mirrorless from Nikon would be nice. However it seems very unlikely. I'll only believe it when I see it

There are a few hurdles. First sensor cost is proportional to the sensor area not the linear dimension of the sensor.

Costs rise more than proportional to the area because the larger the area the less yield. A larger sensor is more likely to have a defect, and also there is more wasted space on a wafer with larger sensors . Manufacturing volume would likely be lower too - which also increases per unit costs.

Cost of lenses would be considerably higher too.

Are used to the higher costs. They earn far much more money.

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

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BasiliskPhoto Contributing Member • Posts: 994
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

Biggers sensors might be more expensive to make, but surely a 6x6 sensor would only need half the pixel density of the D800, so that would reduce the cost/technical challenge somewhat

Also, with a mirrorless MF camera, with a short flange distance, any MF lens could be adapted, with space for electronics to manage AF also a possiblity. You are not going to be using this for shooting fast moving objects, so slow, but accurate AF might be adequate.

A square sensor would give you portrait and landscape options without rotating the camera which is another plus.

ragspix Contributing Member • Posts: 912
Re: Those used to buying into this market...

Not if they're a photographer, the average income is down...

Rags

Stacey_K
Stacey_K Veteran Member • Posts: 7,869
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo
1

davetj_uk wrote:

Is there any truth in this?

http://www.cameraegg.org/nikon-and-sony-will-show-medium-format-cameras-at-photoplus-expo/

It makes sense to me for the same reason it did with film. The latest D800 type sensor is really pushing what any glass can resolve. To make higher MP FF bodies at this point would have diminishing returns due to the lack of optics that can resolve them. It would likely be less expensive to produce larger lenses, for a larger sensor, that didn't have to out resolve the current optical designs.

An example of this would be my old fuji 6X9 rangefinder. The lens resolved about what a really good 35mm lens did so it wasn't some optical miracle. But the resulting images were simply amazing and blew away anything you could get from even the best 35mm optics using the best high resolution film.

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Stacey

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Waterengineer Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

Showing a MF camera and bringing it to market are two different things.

Think the concept cars shown at auto shows.

Alan Brown
Alan Brown Veteran Member • Posts: 4,677
????

ragspix wrote:

Not if they're a photographer, the average income is down...

Rags

If you run a professional business you calculate in all of your running costs, building, equipment needs etc before ypu take a wage..

Equipment like this.. if this is your market segment, is a business expense and deductible and usually VAT is reclaimable.

Hobbyists who have the cash don't care either.. take Leica and Hassy. Maybe jewellery to wear for those who can afford it.

Not your usual suspects..

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Leif Goodwin Senior Member • Posts: 1,390
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo

davetj_uk wrote:

Is there any truth in this?

http://www.cameraegg.org/nikon-and-sony-will-show-medium-format-cameras-at-photoplus-expo/

I guess only nikon staff know and they don't want to risk the sack.

It seems a bit odd given that many MF makers are struggling or no longer exist. Perhaps nikon or canon think their expertise can pull it off. I believe the d800 sensors are stitched together from 2 small ones. So making a MF one would be perhaps twice the price. Which might mean a lot cheaper than the Leica S2 etc. However the d800 has economies of scale from a larger market.

Sometimes companies make prototypes to gauge interest.

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thomo
thomo Senior Member • Posts: 1,105
Re: Nikon and Sony to show Medium Format Cameras at Expo
1

I would be happy if they just produced a reasonably priced full frame medium format digital back for the Hasselblad V system film cameras. The last thing I want is a 'mirrorless' MFD camera.

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ragspix Contributing Member • Posts: 912
Re: ????

Alan Brown wrote:

ragspix wrote:

Not if they're a photographer, the average income is down...

Rags

If you run a professional business you calculate in all of your running costs, building, equipment needs etc before ypu take a wage..

Equipment like this.. if this is your market segment, is a business expense and deductible and usually VAT is reclaimable.

Hobbyists who have the cash don't care either.. take Leica and Hassy. Maybe jewellery to wear for those who can afford it.

Not your usual suspects..

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

Thanks for the business lecture... my guess is I've started & run more business's than you...

Business expenses are deductible against income... don't you get it?

Photographers are making less because there are fewer printed pages and soccer moms have dslrs

I agree about hobbyists vs mental illness... however a lot of the broad based "wealth effect" has been diminished because of the stock market /housing dive.

Rags

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