Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Abrak
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Re: It will be marginal at best
In reply to tinternaut, 11 months ago

Has anyone done a noise test on Iso 'low' or '100' and compared it to iso '200'. I am guessing it is noisier. But is it noisier than iso '400'?

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tinternaut
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Re: Would be difficult to tell.....
In reply to Abrak, 11 months ago

The sensor of the E-M 5 is good enough that it's rather hard to discern noise at ISO200 (and that's with auto gradiation switched on, the shadows already pushed and noise filter set to off).  That is with the JPEG engine though - one of the raw converters (perhaps Capture One or ACR) might give a more accurate picture :-).

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Abrak
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Re: Would be difficult to tell.....
In reply to tinternaut, 11 months ago

tinternaut wrote:

The sensor of the E-M 5 is good enough that it's rather hard to discern noise at ISO200 (and that's with auto gradiation switched on, the shadows already pushed and noise filter set to off). That is with the JPEG engine though - one of the raw converters (perhaps Capture One or ACR) might give a more accurate picture :-).

Well a simple way of testing noise....

1) Set camera to manual

2) Put lens cap on lens

3) Set 1 sec exposure

4) highlight noise with 'auto tone' or 'auto contrast' in PS

BTW here is a video illustrating noise at different isos on the 7D

http://vimeo.com/10473734

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MPA1
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Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
In reply to AustinB, 11 months ago

AustinB wrote:

MPA1 wrote:

As always it depends on what is most important: once Magnum photographers are using M43 for paid assignments I think one must accept that IQ for editorial work has reached the stage of acceptability. Those guys dance on the head of a pin in terms of their skill levels and they have a very serious organisational reputation to uphold.

Can you turn me on to some Magnum photographers using M43? I know David Allen Harvey published some photos with his GF-1, but any others would be interesting to look into.

Btw, not being a skeptic... genuine interest.

Sure. Ian Berry (possibly almost the longest serving member now - he was personally invited by   HC-B when a young man!) is shooting with Panasonic GH-3 cameras in addition to the Leicas he has carried since noah was having boat building lessons. He is particularly a fan of the silent electronic shutter as well as the lack of weight and bulk of course.

A recent post here in the forum also pointed to an article about Moises Saman using the EM-5.

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CrisPhoto
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Re: It will be marginal at best
In reply to Abrak, 11 months ago

Abrak wrote:

Has anyone done a noise test on Iso 'low' or '100' and compared it to iso '200'. I am guessing it is noisier. But is it noisier than iso '400'?

Why should ISO100 be noisier??

The sensor gets more signal and therefore noise in relation to signal should go down.

Only downside is that you loose highlight headroom, instead of 2 EV you only have 1 EV headroom. That is why dynamic range is best at ISO200.

Or let me explain the other way round:

I often overexpose by one stop until the blinkies give a warning. By doing ETTR I expose the sensor of my E-M5 similar as the E-M1 will do at ISO100. I never heard anyone complaining about more noise with ETTR, only downside for ETTR is that you have to watch the highlights.

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tinternaut
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Re: It will be marginal at best
In reply to CrisPhoto, 11 months ago

Well, what you lose would lose in the highlights at ISO100, you gain in the shadows, so horses for courses.  This assume the base ISO of the sensor is ISO200.....

In any event, at either end of the DR spectrum, the total DR I get from my E-PM2 just seems silly compared to the camera it replaces (an E-PL1), where I regularly found myself exposing to the right (and I still do so, habitually, even though it doesn't seem anything like as necessary, most of the time).

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AustinB
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Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
In reply to MPA1, 11 months ago

MPA1 wrote:

AustinB wrote:

MPA1 wrote:

As always it depends on what is most important: once Magnum photographers are using M43 for paid assignments I think one must accept that IQ for editorial work has reached the stage of acceptability. Those guys dance on the head of a pin in terms of their skill levels and they have a very serious organisational reputation to uphold.

Can you turn me on to some Magnum photographers using M43? I know David Allen Harvey published some photos with his GF-1, but any others would be interesting to look into.

Btw, not being a skeptic... genuine interest.

Sure. Ian Berry (possibly almost the longest serving member now - he was personally invited by HC-B when a young man!) is shooting with Panasonic GH-3 cameras in addition to the Leicas he has carried since noah was having boat building lessons. He is particularly a fan of the silent electronic shutter as well as the lack of weight and bulk of course.

A recent post here in the forum also pointed to an article about Moises Saman using the EM-5.

Great, thanks for posting this. I'll look these guys up.

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DonSC
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Absolutely
In reply to tinternaut, 11 months ago

The images you produce when using PDAF on the E-M1 will be vastly superior to those you don't get from the E-M5.

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webber15
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Re: I think you missed the point of the EM1
In reply to MadManAce, 11 months ago

RE small focus point...I dont know what others are doing wrong,I recently bought a em5 and after playing with it at the store,I was able to get the smallest focus square by pressing one button...turn the camera on and I'm on a large focus point,,,press a function button,,,aaannnddd I have the smallest focus point,,,whats the problem?

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DocDerm
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In summary: Who would choose the E-M1 on the basis of it producing better image than on their e-M5?
In reply to webber15, 11 months ago

Thanks

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Jeanadriane
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Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
In reply to MPA1, 11 months ago

MPA1 wrote:

AustinB wrote:

MPA1 wrote:

As always it depends on what is most important: once Magnum photographers are using M43 for paid assignments I think one must accept that IQ for editorial work has reached the stage of acceptability. Those guys dance on the head of a pin in terms of their skill levels and they have a very serious organisational reputation to uphold.

Can you turn me on to some Magnum photographers using M43? I know David Allen Harvey published some photos with his GF-1, but any others would be interesting to look into.

Btw, not being a skeptic... genuine interest.

Sure. Ian Berry (possibly almost the longest serving member now - he was personally invited by HC-B when a young man!) is shooting with Panasonic GH-3 cameras in addition to the Leicas he has carried since noah was having boat building lessons. He is particularly a fan of the silent electronic shutter as well as the lack of weight and bulk of course.

A recent post here in the forum also pointed to an article about Moises Saman using the EM-5.

A link to the thread about Moises Saman using an E-M5: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3553604

David Bailey has been spotted with a GF1 more than once, and I also saw him in a video with an Oly neckstrap (couldn't make out his camera).

Last May I did a workshop with David Alan Harvey. I entered the room with the GX1 on a neckstrap. "That's a GREAT little camera!" was Dave's loud and enthousiastic welcome. BTW, he also is an avid iPhone shooter and regularly publishes Instagrams on his site burnmagazine.org. His latest book features pics from DSLRs, GF1 and iPhone.

Jeanette

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jennajenna
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Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
In reply to LTZ470, 11 months ago

check out this page;

http://m43photo.blogspot.ca/2013/09/e-m1-and-gh3-comparison-images.html

em1 looks sharper but not necessarily better qualitatively then gh3....its a zen thing lol

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jennajenna
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Re: Absolutely
In reply to DonSC, 11 months ago

DonSC wrote:

The images you produce when using PDAF on the E-M1 will be vastly superior to those you don't get from the E-M5.

pdaf is only about focusing; has nothing to do with dynamic range or color or sharpness.

"The passive phase-detection auto-focus needs some contrast to work with, making it difficult to use in low-light scenarios or on even surfaces"

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tinternaut
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Re: You missed the point
In reply to jennajenna, 11 months ago

But then again, the person you replied to also missed his crutch, while being 100 percent correct. Such is life.

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rrr_hhh
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Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
In reply to Tony Rogers, 11 months ago

Tony Rogers wrote:

broody wrote:

Some bloggers like Ming Thein reported the EM-1 could perform at 1 stop ISO advantage over the EM-5. What they forgot to mention is that this is for JPEG files ONLY.

Indeed, the EM-1 has a visibly improved JPEG engine over the last generation and the competition, and it does yield nicer images in high ISO settings. However this does not apply to RAW at all. The EM-1 is tied with the OM-D EM-5 and the GX7 for RAW captures. Just look at DPreview's own test charts. The EPL-5 even seems to beat it in high ISO detail.

Let's keep it honest, guys. the EM1 was massively hyped by review after review comparing it to Full Frame cameras. But at the end of the day, it's the same Sony sensor we know and are used to, same DR, same ISO sensitivity, sure it also has PDAF, no AA filter and better JPEGs but that's it.

I recommend you guys take a look at this comparison. It will either make you feel great you don't pack an APS-C body, or bad you don't have a D600. http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2013/09/battle-of-aps-c-and-m43-latest.html

Anybody else concerned about how red the E-M1 images are? I'm finding this in the raw files too and so far, haven't found a way to compensate for it.

I find that mines are the E-M5 images are too yellow when shooting raws and using the LR standard calibration; the jpegs are way better. Anyway I don't think Ming Thein was referring to the general color balance, but rather to the magentaish color cast of the noise in the E-M5 when using very high ISOs : this becomes very apparent when you take a shot with the lens cap on and push the exposure to the right : what you get is mainly magenta noise only.

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rrr_hhh

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