Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?

Started Oct 1, 2013 | Discussions
saturnV
New MemberPosts: 19
Like?
Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
Oct 1, 2013

I purchased an X20 in July -- brand new and took the camera to the beach over a long weekend. I enjoyed shooting the X20 over 4 intense days but I noticed some peculiar behaviour. During the day, while at the beach -- under incredibly bright conditions the camera on wake up, or just returning to shooting mode from being in the menu -- the camera would slam the aperture wide open and then stop down to an adequate F-stop to expose properly. This process took close to 2 seconds and any shutter firings (if I wasn't locked out) along the way yielded horribly overexposed and useless frames. I was taking candid shots of the kids playing on a sandy shore, waters edge and it was irritating as hell. As the day went to dusk, this was less noticeable -- as it should be because the exposure going toward more light and stopped earlier in the cycle at a wider aperture. I tried resetting the camera to default to reverse any unintentional menu change -- but to no avail.

Has anyone ever experienced this? Any suggestions? Does this seem normal? Why wouldn't a camera just hold and jump right back to the last exposure settings and move from there if conditions had changed or unless commanded directly...

It was a deal breaker for me. I called Fuji and they flat stated something was wrong with my unit and to return it for their expert technical evaluation. They suggested an errant signal was triggering the exposure system to behave erratically. As the camera was new, I returned it to the store (purchased online). Several times, I would watch the camera lens from the front and witness the aperture blades dilate fully and then sequentially cycle inward to cease at a smaller stop appropriate for the sunny conditions.

Now over 2 months have passed and the store has said they sent my returned camera to Fuji and apparently-- after Fuji's examination -- state the camera was fine. Argg! Honestly, if this is normal activity, I would have nothing to do with Fuji products then. I'm looking to X20 owners -- to find out if anyone has had this. Darn, as I had my eyes on the XPro1, the XA1, maybe an X100S -- but not if this is typical happenstance.

Sean65
Regular MemberPosts: 176Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 1, 2013

I understand your frustrations with Fuji. Same happened to me with the camera (XF1) not switching on. Fuji returned it saying everything was fine and that I should read the manual more carefully. Very arrogant of them.

My own research suggested it might have something to do with the camera not being able to read or write to the SD card which caused it to hang.

I have just sent the same camera back due to severe over exposure issues , lens error issues etc.

I'm still waiting for news. I doubt I'll accept the camera back this time. My trust has been knocked plus two sets of holiday snaps have been lost.

Sean

-- hide signature --

Not everyone who says something has something to say.

 Sean65's gear list:Sean65's gear list
Nikon D7100 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Lightpath48
Senior MemberPosts: 2,227Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to Sean65, Oct 1, 2013

My X10 behaves in the same way when turning on in bright light. I'm guessing the aperture begins wide open rather than stopped down for Fujiilm's own reasons. Maybe they considered that most often, compacts would be turned on in lower, rather than higher exposure indexes. When outdoors in bright light, I use the 1.5 seconds of settling down to choose my focal length and frame. By that time it's ready to go. Indoors I often shoot at f/2. I don't see the problem there.

 Lightpath48's gear list:Lightpath48's gear list
Nikon Coolpix L610 Nikon D3300 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Elyharbour
Contributing MemberPosts: 648Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 1, 2013

I've just got back from Croatia with an X20 and took most shots in bright sunshine (with lots of white reflective buildings). I didn't notice this problem at all - but I usually compose for at least some seconds after wake-up or switch-on. It sounds like you're taking shots on the fly without doing this, so maybe that's the difference? Or you do have a faulty camera.

 Elyharbour's gear list:Elyharbour's gear list
Fujifilm XF1 Fujifilm X20 Sony SLT-A57 Fujifilm X-E1 Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
saturnV
New MemberPosts: 19
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 1, 2013

It's not so much when I turn the x20 on. As per usual, I might review photos -- especially the most recent shots by pressing "play" -- to confirm or alter my the settings ("Chimping"). But then there's a sudden moment happening before me and I half press the shutter button to get back to shooting mode and crap -- there's that cycling again. Most times I am shut out until it completes this or if a firing happens, the frame is terribly overexposed -- ie. caught at a far too large aperture.

If or when I was shooting at darker hours or architecture (not much at the beach except the shockingly frequent excessive rotund-ancies of todays exemplary population) -- it was somewhat tolerable. But for kids digging in the sand, riding a wave (ode to Eleven After One) or just splashing around or buried up to the neck in sand-- it frustratingly exacerbated a developing sunburn on my neck.

Thanks for your input -- Sean65 -- sounds like your X10 had a behavioural history like my X20...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 1, 2013

saturnV wrote:

Thanks for your input -- Sean65 -- sounds like your X10 had a behavioural history like my X20...

I've noticed this, too. The HS25 does the same. I find it odd, but perhaps there's a mechanical reason for it.

 cantanima's gear list:cantanima's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix 2600 Zoom Fujifilm X10
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Danielepaolo
Senior MemberPosts: 4,309
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 1, 2013

saturnV wrote:

I purchased an X20 in July -- brand new and took the camera to the beach over a long weekend. I enjoyed shooting the X20 over 4 intense days but I noticed some peculiar behaviour. During the day, while at the beach -- under incredibly bright conditions the camera on wake up, or just returning to shooting mode from being in the menu -- the camera would slam the aperture wide open and then stop down to an adequate F-stop to expose properly. This process took close to 2 seconds and any shutter firings (if I wasn't locked out) along the way yielded horribly overexposed and useless frames.

I have this behaviour with my X10 when I start it up or change from particular settings.

-- hide signature --

Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
photoreddi
Senior MemberPosts: 4,370
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to cantanima, Oct 1, 2013

cantanima wrote:

saturnV wrote:

Thanks for your input -- Sean65 -- sounds like your X10 had a behavioural history like my X20...

I've noticed this, too. The HS25 does the same. I find it odd, but perhaps there's a mechanical reason for it.

I think that's it. Unlike hand held light meters which can have relatively huge photosensitive devices (which are linear over a very wide range) or the metering sensors in DSLRs that are still pretty large (so that they too can measure over a wide dynamic range), P&S and mirrorless cameras use sensor photosites to take readings and they're extremely small. So to get a fairly accurate reading my guess is that the camera has to essentially take many "metering" exposures, draining/resetting the sensor after each attempt, making it ready for the next trial exposure, where each successive trial exposure uses a faster "shutter speed" to reduce the light collected by the photosites. When most of the photosites are no longer overloaded, equivalent to blown highlights, the camera now knows how bright the light is and its meter reading can be safely used.

Photo-geek catnip.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tomhongkong
Senior MemberPosts: 2,464
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 2, 2013

I can not say I have noticed this with X10, but it may just be my way of shooting.  I will try when I get home and see if it has the same behaviour.

Just a thought, though.  There were some posts on the Nikon 1 forum some months ago about how long the V1 took to adjust its aperture, when going from bright to dark or v v.  (Could be several seconds).  The solution was associated with the AE/AE lock settings, and I can't remember what setting fixed it.  I haven't had a problem with my V1 either, but have it in the back of my mind to check the posts in case it does bother me.

Have you tried other AE settings?

tom

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Elyharbour
Contributing MemberPosts: 648Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to photoreddi, Oct 2, 2013

photoreddi wrote:

cantanima wrote:

saturnV wrote:

Thanks for your input -- Sean65 -- sounds like your X10 had a behavioural history like my X20...

I've noticed this, too. The HS25 does the same. I find it odd, but perhaps there's a mechanical reason for it.

I think that's it. Unlike hand held light meters which can have relatively huge photosensitive devices (which are linear over a very wide range) or the metering sensors in DSLRs that are still pretty large (so that they too can measure over a wide dynamic range), P&S and mirrorless cameras use sensor photosites to take readings and they're extremely small. So to get a fairly accurate reading my guess is that the camera has to essentially take many "metering" exposures, draining/resetting the sensor after each attempt, making it ready for the next trial exposure, where each successive trial exposure uses a faster "shutter speed" to reduce the light collected by the photosites. When most of the photosites are no longer overloaded, equivalent to blown highlights, the camera now knows how bright the light is and its meter reading can be safely used.

Photo-geek catnip.

Interesting! I rarely use the screen on my X20 (usually the OVF) but I have noticed a few times the screen goes very bright for a second or two, then goes to the correct exposure. I'm not sure when this happens and have only seen it a few times, but the above does seem a plausible explanation. As others here, my shooting style may be the reason why this hasn't in reality been a problem. But, it's useful to know. I'll check what happens on my Sony NEX5 as well.

 Elyharbour's gear list:Elyharbour's gear list
Fujifilm XF1 Fujifilm X20 Sony SLT-A57 Fujifilm X-E1 Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Elyharbour
Contributing MemberPosts: 648Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to Elyharbour, Oct 2, 2013

Ah yes, I can reproduce the OPs problem now. It's the aperture opening right up then closing down when coming from picture viewing to taking.  The Sony NEX5 CSC does it as well, but it's much quicker (<1 sec) due to the APS-C sensor I guess, so it would not present a real-life issue.

If after viewing a shot (and pointing the camera to a bright light source) I press the shutter release button to focus and then immediately press it further, the shot is taken whilst the aperture is still closing. I've never noticed that before. Good to know, and although I rarely ever shoot in this way, it would explain the odd one or two over-exposed shots I've had.

A useful thread.

 Elyharbour's gear list:Elyharbour's gear list
Fujifilm XF1 Fujifilm X20 Sony SLT-A57 Fujifilm X-E1 Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
saturnV
New MemberPosts: 19
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to photoreddi, Oct 3, 2013

That seems a plausible reason. Brings up another question -- do other Fuji's like X100S or even Xpro-1 have same issues..?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
saturnV
New MemberPosts: 19
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 3, 2013

Granted, myself and perhaps a few others who have added to this thread & who were able to reproduce the same occurrence -- (even with other brand cameras) -- I am turned off of compacts. I am coming from DSLR use and as I watched some of the features from DSLRs trickle down to compacts, I thought the X20 was a good cam to jump for. I'll just have to wait.. Don't get me wrong, I love slowing down and concentrate on the shot -- still use a fully manual Nikon FE but when it come to exposure, even that vintage body beats the X20. Thanks everyone form your contribution.

One more thought -- I read lots of reviews on the X20 before the purchase. Never came across any mention of this behaviour. It is under extreme bright conditions and possible testers are rarely reviewing under said conditions I suppose. Darned frustrating experience and unfortunately a deal breaker for me. I am disappointed to hear the Nikon V1 may have issue too. I had a interest in that line as a Nikon user. Nice to know it may be rectified via a menu setting though..

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tomhongkong
Senior MemberPosts: 2,464
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 3, 2013

This has been a very interesting thread which may explain some of the mysterious overexposure reports we see from time to time.

The truth is that we seem to lose some important speed/response features with the current round of 'super compacts' (and maybe some other current live view models as well) compared with traditional DSLRs and SLRs which had OVF and no live view.

Not only do we have the time to respond to changing light values (as discussed here) but also the time taken to be ready to shoot from 'off' which most current cameras with LCDs or EVFs turn to after a few minutes.

With my DSLR I can leave it 'on' and it is ready to take a shot as soon as I have it at my eye, and the exposure is right as well.  The electronics do not drain the battery significantly so there is no need for it to turn off

It is strange that this is not reported in reviews and if it were the manufacturers might find a way round the problem (for me as an action photographer)

tom

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Elyharbour
Contributing MemberPosts: 648Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to tomhongkong, Oct 3, 2013

As primarily a non-action photographer this doesn't bother me at all. But I can see how it could create a problem for some and it's good to know about it. Based on my observations with the Sony NEX-5, the movement is so fast you'd probably get away with it. So maybe the APS-C Fuji models would be OK as well? Maybe worth asking in the X-series forum.

 Elyharbour's gear list:Elyharbour's gear list
Fujifilm XF1 Fujifilm X20 Sony SLT-A57 Fujifilm X-E1 Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
photoreddi
Senior MemberPosts: 4,370
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 3, 2013

saturnV wrote:

That seems a plausible reason. Brings up another question -- do other Fuji's like X100S or even Xpro-1 have same issues..?

I haven't used any of Fuji's APS-C sensor cameras but I've used some of Samsung's APS-C mirrorless cameras and I don't recall noticing any similar problems with them (NX100, NX200).

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Trevor G
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,473Gear list
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- follow instructions in maual
In reply to tomhongkong, Oct 12, 2013

tomhongkong wrote:

It is strange that this is not reported in reviews and if it were the manufacturers might find a way round the problem (for me as an action photographer)

tom

Why would they report on a "problem" that doesn't exist, because the manual clearly says that if the exposure light is blinking the camera is not ready for action.

At least the Fuji line gives us the opportunity to shoot when there is an issue of some sorts, where other cameras lock up or won't release until all shooting parameters are met.

-- hide signature --

Cheers
Trevor G
Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
joachim05
Regular MemberPosts: 330
Like?
Re: Fuji X20 --Wake up Delay/Overexposure Issue -- anyone else noticed this?
In reply to saturnV, Oct 12, 2013

Mine does similar. A quick half press of the trigger will speed up the process. Still it is a bit annoying.

I assume it has something to do with the camera offering a video mode. In a video one would not want the camera changing the exposure to quickly.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads