How can I keep my D-600 when...

Started Sep 30, 2013 | Discussions
Peter Damroth
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to kiirokurisu, 11 months ago

kiirokurisu wrote:


Otherwise we might have to add a new post type alongside the poll, question, review etc: pointless whine.

No whining, just looking for ideas from this group on how they are dealing with this real problem.

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Peter Damroth
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Re: You are behaving like a drama queen
In reply to lancespring, 11 months ago

lancespring wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

I had lot's of spots on the sensor, then got the camera r+r by Nikon. Less than 100 shots later I have MORE spots....a lot of them. I was working in the studio using the camera for a catalog and now I have spots on the products and around the products. This is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective.

AND spots are not always in a sky etc. Spots on products are sometimes very difficult to remove.

Oh, yes I was working at f11.....because the job called for that. Very Disappointed....

So your camera produces all of these horrible images, but you are unable to post even one of them?
Does not sound like a very credible story to me.

You are being very much a drama queen here. And that damages your credibility even more.

.

This kind of talk doesn't help anything..........except your ego.

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to happypoppeye, 11 months ago

happypoppeye wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

I had lot's of spots on the sensor, then got the camera r+r by Nikon. Less than 100 shots later I have MORE spots....a lot of them. I was working in the studio using the camera for a catalog and now I have spots on the products and around the products. This is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective.

AND spots are not always in a sky etc. Spots on products are sometimes very difficult to remove.

Oh, yes I was working at f11.....because the job called for that. Very Disappointed....

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Peter Damroth Photography

Well, when you play with things like that, this is what happens. NIkon has had this "spot" issue on various models for some time now and it is a known issue on the D600 yet you still bought one and sent it in for R&R instead of returning it. Can you still return it? What else are you going to do? If you can't return it what else are you going to do? Sell it knwoing "this is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective".

...and what are you going to do if you get rid of it. Buy another Nikon? I wouldn't.

Wow. What a comment. Not only is it poorly informed, it's in poor taste. You're essentially blaming the OP for buying the camera.

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stevo23
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Re: You are behaving like a drama queen
In reply to lancespring, 11 months ago

lancespring wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

I had lot's of spots on the sensor, then got the camera r+r by Nikon. Less than 100 shots later I have MORE spots....a lot of them. I was working in the studio using the camera for a catalog and now I have spots on the products and around the products. This is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective.

AND spots are not always in a sky etc. Spots on products are sometimes very difficult to remove.

Oh, yes I was working at f11.....because the job called for that. Very Disappointed....

So your camera produces all of these horrible images, but you are unable to post even one of them?
Does not sound like a very credible story to me.

You are being very much a drama queen here. And that damages your credibility even more.

.

You and happypoppeye need to go elsewhere. If you had even the slightest curiosity, you could have checked on the OP and seen that he's the real deal.

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to Antony John, 11 months ago

Antony John wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

WE could debate the difference between a Ford and a Chevy.....that's not the issue, I have more than enough knowledge to make the decision that works for me!

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Peter Damroth Photography

I'm sure you do but then again, just wondering why you would chose an inferior camera for professional work that's all.

Inferior camera? And why is it your business what he uses? He could be using a Holga for all I care, his cameras pay him.

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to gftphoto, 11 months ago

gftphoto wrote:

I have a creeping fear that the D610 will not solve the problem. If that indeed turns out to be the case, Nikon is at risk of being in real trouble in the marketplace.

That would be true if it happens that way. But you're worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet.

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to Catalana, 11 months ago

Catalana wrote:

In a sense, the sensor of my D600 is quite contaminated, but it hasn't stopped me from going out and taking shots. Under most conditions it is rarely an issue for me, but if I do landscape it can be quite annoying. 23000 + exposures later, with my warranty period expiring within a week, I

I have more warranty left than you, but I just did the same thing. My megadust is gone, but I figured it's best not to let a damaged part remain in the camera, just in case. I get it back today...

decided to take the beast in for a service. Whatever Nikon Service will do, i.e., replace the shutter or just clean it, I'll keep on using the D600 until it dies. I just like this camera.

At f/16 with the 50mm/1.8G, Jpeg straight OOC...

Same shot, desaturated with extreme contrast and levels applied.

To me it is not dust, those bunnies are long gone, but rather lubricant/oil. Maybe I'll get lucky and Nikon will alleviate my issue. If I get the time, I'll take a look at the sensor of my Pentax K-5 back-up camera and post a comparison. Maybe I'll borrow some different cameras from some friends and see what kind of results I can get. I have a feeling that many sensors out there will have similar issues.

The top one is fairly clean, you could use it. But as soon as you increase your clarity or structure, whatever is there gets more noticeable. I just imported your photo into Lightroom onto a sawtooth curve to see if I could find more than your BW version and it's pretty much the same. I personally don't think you have "the" problem right now - that's a pretty normal amount of dust.

"The" problem is much worse. I counted over 200 spots removed on some of my early shots and that was just the ones that made a difference like in sky regions. And it absolutely required wet cleaning. But to put it in perspective, I've done maybe 4 wet cleans since December of last year as opposed to a typical frequency of twice per year. How big a deal is that?

Fact is, there is a whole lot more dust on our sensors than we know. The biggest problem is that some of us have started looking a little harder for it since the D600 came out. (Including me!)

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to Dave Sanders, 11 months ago

Dave Sanders wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Hi Peter,

I don't know how many actuations you have on the camera, but whatever causes the sticky spots seems to go away after 3000 although mine took about 5000.

I wish. There are lots of us who were/are still seeing lots of spots 8000-10,000 and beyond.

A wet clean is for me a necessary skill for any DSLR as I shoot outdoors and accumulate all manner of dust and debris.

But I can assure you the frequency of needed cleanings drops significantly to normal intervals.

It did not in my case. I could do a studio shoot in the morning/afternoon that rendered my D600 unusable for long exposure work in the evening. Heck, a few continuous bursts could spray enough on my previously clean sensor to render it unusable for any number of tasks.

Thankfully Henry's in Toronto took mine back, no questions asked.

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Dave Sanders

Supposedly, your experience is not typical.

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happypoppeye
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to stevo23, 11 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

I had lot's of spots on the sensor, then got the camera r+r by Nikon. Less than 100 shots later I have MORE spots....a lot of them. I was working in the studio using the camera for a catalog and now I have spots on the products and around the products. This is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective.

AND spots are not always in a sky etc. Spots on products are sometimes very difficult to remove.

Oh, yes I was working at f11.....because the job called for that. Very Disappointed....

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Peter Damroth Photography

Well, when you play with things like that, this is what happens. NIkon has had this "spot" issue on various models for some time now and it is a known issue on the D600 yet you still bought one and sent it in for R&R instead of returning it. Can you still return it? What else are you going to do? If you can't return it what else are you going to do? Sell it knwoing "this is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective".

...and what are you going to do if you get rid of it. Buy another Nikon? I wouldn't.

Wow. What a comment. Not only is it poorly informed, it's in poor taste. You're essentially blaming the OP for buying the camera.

You forgot about the whole section where I implied the OP should have looked into the camera before he bought it, than should have returned it because it was clearly defective than asked how he was going to get rid of it because it "is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective". You buy a dog with spots and its going to have spots. If the seller tells you that the dog who has spots doesn't have spots and you never wanted a dog with spots in the first place than you return the dog with spots for a dog without spots. I don't call that poor tatste or poorly informed. I call that common sense.

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vortex09
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to kiirokurisu, 11 months ago

kiirokurisu wrote:

Well, you're wrong. Mine does not have the problem. I've tested for it repeatedly and it does not occur. I have over 5000 actuations and zero oil spots. The applicable proverb here is "the plural of anecdote is not data". Try to remember that next time.

Would you mind sharing the first 3 of your serial number?

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Fred Mueller
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Peter ...
In reply to Peter Damroth, 11 months ago

Did not read the whole thread - but up at the top it sounded like you don't do your own wet cleaning ??

If so - that's pretty hard to believe for a guy with your obvious chops ... the idea that people are returning a camera to Nikon service for a wet cleaning is pretty amazing to me ...  far more effort and delay than just doing it yourself. I just don't get it.

My 600 was dirty in the beginning, and is dirtier than "average" (compared to D300/700).  So I clean it a little more often.  It did get better over time and was never unmanageable. And wet cleaning a sensor (for me) is hardly more consequential than cleaning a lens, you know, with lens cleaner and a swab, or a lens pen ...

I do think there have been "some" 600s that throw so much gunk that they need to be cleaned almost daily, but I bet those are pretty rare.  In those cases I'd insist on replacement under warrantee.

I've never had a DSLR that did not need a wet cleaning every month or two, and a blow out more frequently.

best

Fred

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DJF77
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Re: You are behaving like a drama queen
In reply to stevo23, 11 months ago

How anyone could defend nikon is beyond me. The D600 is a fine camera but the oil problem is ridiculous, and what's even more shocking is that nikon deny the problem....  Then release a new model (D610) a few months down the line.

I would absolutely demand a refund.

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Steve Bingham
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Peter, just curious . . .
In reply to Fred Mueller, 11 months ago

I see you have the old Kodak SLR/n. I went through two and got very frustrated with certain Nikon lenses (skies going from slight magenta to green to magenta, and vice versa)! Kodak took them both back and then stopped making them - and went out of the SLR business.

In answer to your original question, I would return the camera and ask for store credit. Being an active pro, I am sure you buy a ton of equipment and are considered an excellent customer.

What I can't figure out is why some D600s work great (no oil or debris) while others are terrible. I bought mine on January 3, 2013 and so far it is performing flawlessly. I no longer do commercial photography but simply play at fine art (won a few international awards), but I do use my camera. Now over 3,000 photos and still no sign of a problem.

I think the shutter housing is faulty and allowing lubricant and dust to be sucked in. But why is the problem with some D600s and not all D600s? Different parts manufacturers? Different factories? And why are some D600s returned with the same problem? And why the deafening silence from Nikon?

I suppose we will never know. By the way, my D600 has yet to be wet cleaned, although I have cleaned many sensors on earlier cameras (Kodak SLR/n, D2x, Fuji S2, D200, etc)

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BeachnCruz
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Quit Whining and Clean your Sensor .... !
In reply to Peter Damroth, 11 months ago

Cough up the Cleaning Fee or Clean it yourself ! It's a simple choice ! Why all the Drama ???

http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2012/06/11/sensor-cleaning-with-copperhill/

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Steve Bingham
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to vortex09, 11 months ago

vortex09 wrote:

My experience with the D600 dust/oil problem:

- I've received two refub bodies with severe cases. Both arrived with *filthy* sensors right out of the box, too.

- Before I purchased refurb, I was looking for used copies. I asked four potential sellers to provide me with f/22 white wall or blue sky tests. All four came showed "the problem," with numerous and disproportionate spots in the upper-left quadrant.

- A friend purchased a new D600 about three months ago, June 2013. After only 400 actuations, there are numerous spots, with a clear bias toward the upper-left quadrant.

So in my sample of 7 bodies, all unequivocally exhibited the dust/oil problem.

I've come to suspect strongly that most or all D600 copies are affected. And with all due respect, when I see posts that claim "mine doesn't have it!," my default assumption is that the user simply doesn't shoot at small apertures and hasn't bothered testing for the issue. Perhaps there are *some* relatively clean D600 sensors, but I'm betting the majority of claims that a body is totally unaffected are explained by a lack of thorough testing. (And before anyone says something like "if they have to do a thorough test to find it, then obviously it's not a big deal:" that all depends on your use case.

A really bad assumption. Mine works great. Please check my background.

If you do nothing but portraits, fine; if you're all landscapes like me, it's inevitably going to have a real effect on your images).

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Steve Bingham
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Re: Quit Whining and Clean your Sensor .... !
In reply to BeachnCruz, 11 months ago

Did you read his post carefully? The guy makes his living as a pro photographer. Time is money!!!!!

By the way, my D600 works great but the OP has a real point.

BeachnCruz wrote:

Cough up the Cleaning Fee or Clean it yourself ! It's a simple choice ! Why all the Drama ???

http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2012/06/11/sensor-cleaning-with-copperhill/

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CanonFF
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Re: Quit Whining and Clean your Sensor .... !
In reply to BeachnCruz, 11 months ago

That's the answer? Quit whining? How about taking Nikon to task and get a refund? Nikon and Canon are supposed to be rock solid to pros all over and if they provided a faulty product then the pro is whining?

BeachnCruz wrote:

Cough up the Cleaning Fee or Clean it yourself ! It's a simple choice ! Why all the Drama ???

http://www.moosepeterson.com/blog/2012/06/11/sensor-cleaning-with-copperhill/

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DFPanno
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Fantastic retort! Right on bro!
In reply to 1w12q312qw1, 11 months ago

1w12q312qw1 wrote:

kiirokurisu wrote:

Well, you're wrong. Mine does not have the problem. I've tested for it repeatedly and it does not occur. I have over 5000 actuations and zero oil spots. The applicable proverb here is "the plural of anecdote is not data". Try to remember that next time.

To the OP - this issue has literally been discussed to death on this forum. A quick search would net probably hundreds of threads. Is yours somehow different, necessitating starting a new thread? Doubtful. The options that are open to you are very clear, pick one and be done with it.

Otherwise we might have to add a new post type alongside the poll, question, review etc: pointless whine.

If you don't like the thread, why don't you just move on? Instead, you're whining about the "whiners", and I come along and have to whine about the whiners of the whiners.

A lot of us are on the fence about the D600/D610 and find these threads are a timely update as to the problems and effectiveness of the fixes. Prior threads have sometimes devolved into mud-wrestling with people like leicaman leading the mud, so a fresh thread initiated by a VERY talented photographer with a keen knowledge of gear is welcomed by most of us here.

AGAIN, if you don't like the thread, do not participate and leave the moderation to the moderator, he's doing just fine and a lot better than you.

Stan

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T O Shooter
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to Peter Damroth, 11 months ago

Peter Damroth wrote:

kiirokurisu wrote:

Otherwise we might have to add a new post type alongside the poll, question, review etc: pointless whine.

No whining, just looking for ideas from this group on how they are dealing with this real problem.

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Peter Damroth Photography

Everyone that bought a D600 should have gotten a "Mr Lube" free body.  Not too much to expect.

The Japanese ( Samurai ) used to have great honor, even taking it to Seppuku levels, and honor is an important part of the Japanese culture. Apparently the people at Nikon don't follow this train of thought  ( honor not Seppuku )

I have had numerous Nikon DSLRs and have never require a wet cleaning. And I'm certainly not all that particular about where I change lenses. A bulb type blower has always been enough and infrequently at that. Anybody less than an idiot would not suggest that it is acceptable to have to start wet cleaning sensors routinely on new bodies because of manufacturer's defects.  Idiots R Us

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stevo23
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Re: How can I keep my D-600 when...
In reply to happypoppeye, 11 months ago

happypoppeye wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Peter Damroth wrote:

I had lot's of spots on the sensor, then got the camera r+r by Nikon. Less than 100 shots later I have MORE spots....a lot of them. I was working in the studio using the camera for a catalog and now I have spots on the products and around the products. This is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective.

AND spots are not always in a sky etc. Spots on products are sometimes very difficult to remove.

Oh, yes I was working at f11.....because the job called for that. Very Disappointed....

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Peter Damroth Photography

Well, when you play with things like that, this is what happens. NIkon has had this "spot" issue on various models for some time now and it is a known issue on the D600 yet you still bought one and sent it in for R&R instead of returning it. Can you still return it? What else are you going to do? If you can't return it what else are you going to do? Sell it knwoing "this is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective".

...and what are you going to do if you get rid of it. Buy another Nikon? I wouldn't.

Wow. What a comment. Not only is it poorly informed, it's in poor taste. You're essentially blaming the OP for buying the camera.

You forgot about the whole section where I implied the OP should have looked into the camera before he bought it, than should have returned it because it was clearly defective than asked how he was going to get rid of it because it "is wrong to sell a camera that is clearly defective". You buy a dog with spots and its going to have spots. If the seller tells you that the dog who has spots doesn't have spots and you never wanted a dog with spots in the first place than you return the dog with spots for a dog without spots. I don't call that poor tatste or poorly informed. I call that common sense.

No, I read the whole thing and I think you're ill informed and posting in poor taste.

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