Official statement on Sony A-mount future...

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
phaedin
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to theswede, 10 months ago

The Rep from Sony may have been told that Sony will continue to support the A mount, but may not have been given any details as to what and when products will be released as per company policy

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to theswede, 10 months ago

theswede wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

That/those person(s) would also have access to all information regarding upcoming A-mount product.

Access to information and liberty to divulge this information is two completely separate things.

You have missed the wording. He is not saying that he will not tell. He is saying that he don't know. And that is what negates his statement. When he don't even know this, he is not in a position to give any guarantees.

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theswede
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Allan Olesen, 10 months ago

Allan Olesen wrote:

theswede wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

That/those person(s) would also have access to all information regarding upcoming A-mount product.

Access to information and liberty to divulge this information is two completely separate things.

You have missed the wording.

I have done no such thing. I just happen to be able to read business speak.

He is not saying that he will not tell. He is saying that he don't know.

No, he is not. He is saying WE do not know. As I said, it takes years. And even if they have decided on a date of release it can get moved many times yet.

It is you who have missed the wording, and on top of that have no comprehension of the realities of long product development cycles.

And that is what negates his statement.

It does no such thing. Just because the day of release is not known does not mean the products are not nearing completion.

When he don't even know this, he is not in a position to give any guarantees.

And then we're back to you claiming that because big companies have long schedules and can't provide specifics before they're cleared to do so nothing they ever say can be true.

By your reasoning the only thing that will convince you this message is true is if it lies.

Jesper

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Allan Olesen, 10 months ago

Allan Olesen wrote:

theswede wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

That/those person(s) would also have access to all information regarding upcoming A-mount product.

Access to information and liberty to divulge this information is two completely separate things.

You have missed the wording. He is not saying that he will not tell. He is saying that he don't know. And that is what negates his statement. When he don't even know this, he is not in a position to give any guarantees.

Do you believe his response would be any different if the question were regarding NEX-7 replacement?

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phaedin
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Allan Olesen, 10 months ago

So according to you, if a company sends out a memo directing their employees to assure there customer that the company will do something, then because they don't have any details they can not do so.

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paulkienitz
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so said Olympus...
In reply to JohnBee, 10 months ago

"As the company responsible for initiating both the Four Thirds System and Micro Four Thirds System standards, Olympus Imaging Corporation will continue to develop and enhance the product lineup for both standards to meet the diverse needs of our customers."

Unless Sony brings back an optical viewfinder, the alpha mount now has no advantage over the E-mount for any purpose.

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moimoi
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to JohnBee, 10 months ago

Don't believe what Sony says, as a profit company, if Sony sells much more emount gear than amount gear, then they will eventually drop it as they lose money.

Sony want to sell, and maximizing profits. 2014 might be interesting.

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to moimoi, 10 months ago

moimoi wrote:

Don't believe what Sony says, as a profit company, if Sony sells much more emount gear than amount gear, then they will eventually drop it as they lose money.

Sony want to sell, and maximizing profits. 2014 might be interesting.

A non sequitur. Just because X sells more than Y, that doesn't mean Y is losing money.

By that token, there wouldn't be any FF cameras for example. Or closer to "home", an RX1 alongside the RX100 (II).

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don1jam
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to TrojMacReady, 10 months ago

TrojMacReady wrote:

moimoi wrote:

Don't believe what Sony says, as a profit company, if Sony sells much more emount gear than amount gear, then they will eventually drop it as they lose money.

Sony want to sell, and maximizing profits. 2014 might be interesting.

A non sequitur. Just because X sells more than Y, that doesn't mean Y is losing money.

By that token, there wouldn't be any FF cameras for example. Or closer to "home", an RX1 alongside the RX100 (II).

If X is more profitable than Y, then a company will prioritize X over Y.

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moimoi
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to TrojMacReady, 10 months ago

TrojMacReady wrote:

moimoi wrote:

Don't believe what Sony says, as a profit company, if Sony sells much more emount gear than amount gear, then they will eventually drop it as they lose money.

Sony want to sell, and maximizing profits. 2014 might be interesting.

A non sequitur. Just because X sells more than Y, that doesn't mean Y is losing money.

By that token, there wouldn't be any FF cameras for example. Or closer to "home", an RX1 alongside the RX100 (II).

All I am trying to say is that Sony shooters (and I do shoot Sony) should be cautious about the Sony's official statement.

But in the end Sony seeks for profits, the market will dictate whether they will drop the amount or not.

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Moimoi

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moimoi
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to don1jam, 10 months ago

don1jam wrote:

If X is more profitable than Y, then a company will prioritize X over Y.

Indeed!

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Cheers,
Moimoi

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cosmonaut
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to JohnBee, 10 months ago

Well if you just think logically about it there really was never anything to worry about. Camera companies rarely just abandon a mount and then only if it really has no other choice. Nikon and Canon years ago. Leica years ago. Most recent the 4/3rd mount. I think for Olympus it was suffering 4/3rd sales and financial problems. I think the 4/3rd system killed itself off.

Sony really has no reason to drop the A mount. Sales are good. More so now in full frame than ever. I think there are just a lot of pessimist out there that only see gloom and doom even in good times. Sony is riding high and I think the current leader in innovation. Worse case, even if, I would pick up the new NEX FF and LA-EA2 and be just as happy.

My a99 isn't going to stop working for many year anyway.

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Evildogofdoom
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to moimoi, 10 months ago

By that logic, Fiat will drop Ferrari, as they sell a lot more Fiats, Dodges and Chyslers

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don1jam
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to don1jam, 10 months ago

I don't see why people are blaming the users/consumers of doom and gloom. This is the mistake many companies have made, blackberry is a good example.

You have to create products that costumers demand, and you cannot blame the customer if your product don't sell well.

Sony is too large a company to have ambitions of being a niche vendor in the camera business. No Executive at Sony is going to have such low ambitions, and you best believe that they are trying to find ways to take market share from Canon and Nikon. Whether they will succeed is a different matter.

The next point is that it's pretty obvious that E mount right now is receiving greater priority than A mount. If the E mount continues to be successful what is likely is that they will continue to support the A mount by selling you an adapter. Once they make a breakthrough on Autofocus, they writing is on the wall.

I suspect they are testing the waters to see how far they can carry the E mount with the A3000. If it is successful we will likely never see a A37 replacement. We may see a few more alpha products in 2014 but it will only be trickle. Don't expect to see a flood of different alpha cameras as they did in earlier years.

Some are saying the 70-200/400 V2 are signs of the future, but they are only rehashes of existing lens and one cannot use that to judge the future.

The only way I see new Alpha products coming out in 2015 and beyond is if the market rejects the E-mount cameras, and that does not seem to be general trend.

It doesn't mean the end for Sony interchangeable lens owners, but you best believe a change is coming.

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WaltKnapp
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, 10 months ago

artlmntl wrote:

Cameras have this weird notion of system with lenses outlasting bodies, so there is the idea that you want to get an improved body to go with your (growing?) collection of lenses. Otherwise, no reason to care about lens mount. Get a Sony this time? Happens to have an A-mount. Get a canon next time and a Nikon after that. You can do that, but that means buying without regard for system.

For A mount users it's definitely the system.  The speculation is not just about a camera, it's about a system, the A mount system.  Part of the problem is how Sony does not seem to realize it's a system and does not support it as a system.  That is more than just lenses and camera bodies too. And certainly the E mount folks have little idea of system, maybe because E mount is way far away from anything like a system, much farther than A mount which is becoming less of a system than it was with Minolta.  I repeat, a System is more than a camera and lens.

For me there is also the Sony system which is everything photographic they make, E and A mount are both part of that.  Their combined direction at that level has certain outcomes.  Outcomes that I'm less than pleased with because they clearly represent shrinkage in photographic capability, what they support. Force A and E mount together and that adds even more compromise to the overall system. Just as combining video and stills did.

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WaltKnapp
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to Dave Oddie, 10 months ago

Dave Oddie wrote:

You can't be so dismissive of an official statement and expect people to believe your baseless speculation. The above post of yours isn't a well thought out argument or looking at it with a "critical view". It's not even a sensible opinion as those have to have something to back them up.

Sony have said what they are going to do. You have chosen not to believe them but for no good reason.

We have chosen to be skeptics on Sony's saying what they are going to do, official or not.  Because they so often have done far less than they said they were going to do.  Or in doing what they say they compromise some other part of their photography gear's capability. Or do the exact opposite of what they say.

There is very good reason for this, we have experienced Sony behaviour over considerable time.  What they do is real, their talk is not. They have built up a considerable pattern of behavior, that's quite real.

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Michel J
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to WaltKnapp, 10 months ago

WaltKnapp wrote:

Dave Oddie wrote:

You can't be so dismissive of an official statement and expect people to believe your baseless speculation. The above post of yours isn't a well thought out argument or looking at it with a "critical view". It's not even a sensible opinion as those have to have something to back them up.

Sony have said what they are going to do. You have chosen not to believe them but for no good reason.

We have chosen to be skeptics on Sony's saying what they are going to do, official or not. Because they so often have done far less than they said they were going to do. Or in doing what they say they compromise some other part of their photography gear's capability. Or do the exact opposite of what they say.

There is very good reason for this, we have experienced Sony behaviour over considerable time. What they do is real, their talk is not. They have built up a considerable pattern of behavior, that's quite real.

True !

And a sign that never fails is that the launch of the A3000 shows and proves that they are ready for a mirrorless DSLR design! For more ... ...

Regards,

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Michel J
« Having the latest gear is nice, but great photographers don't have to have it. They can shoot good stuff with anything »

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jonikon
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Re: Some truth but...
In reply to liquid stereo, 10 months ago

liquid stereo wrote:

Consider that DSLR/DSLT sales are pretty poor. Amongst all camera makers. It makes no sense for Sony to support two systems, two mounts, etc., when they're competing against the monolithic CN. Economies of scale, dilution of marketing and brand specification doesn't work in their favor. Unless the two mounts are viewed as a continuous spectrum.

So yes - there is the self-fullfilling stuff. But there's also some reality at play.

The best example, in my opinion, is 4/3rds and Micro 4/3rds. Who announced the death/end of 4/3rds? No one, except for the lack of product.

Cheers!

p.s. its also wise to not over-estimate the effect of internet-sourpusses.

This is exactly right! I have no idea what Sony plans to do with the A-mount, but one does not have to be a genius to know that it is not in the interest of any camera company to announce the demise of of their camera mount, (or OVF for that matter!) before it happens. Just keep your eye on the products being offered as the best predictor of the future. If the product line becomes thin, then it's time to be wary!

- Jon

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tqlla
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Evildogofdoom, 10 months ago

Evildogofdoom wrote:

By that logic, Fiat will drop Ferrari, as they sell a lot more Fiats, Dodges and Chyslers

Terrible analogy.  Just terrible.

  1. Ferrari sales are not dependent on the sales of low end Fiats.  
  2. They are two unrelated vehicles.   Your Fiat Rims, are not an incentive to buy a Ferrari.
  3. High end Amount sales are rooted in the sales of low end Amounts.  Most people who have an A99, or A77 had a lower end Amount(including Minolta) to start.
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leonche64
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"Some men you just can't reach."
In reply to artlmntl, 10 months ago

artlmntl wrote:

leonche64 wrote:

When the gap between A700 and A77 was four years, Sony wasn't going on a binge to fill out the e-mount line. The e-mounts weren't getting the latest APS-C sensors and there was no talk of a FF NEX.

Has nothing to do with anything A-mount. Want to shoot NEX? Shoot NEX. History remains the same. Toyota makes the Lexus LS and the Corolla.

Non sequitor. Cars are self-contained and you buy a new one to completely replace the old one. Cameras have this weird notion of system with lenses outlasting bodies, so there is the idea that you want to get an improved body to go with your (growing?) collection of lenses. Otherwise, no reason to care about lens mount. Get a Sony this time? Happens to have an A-mount. Get a canon next time and a Nikon after that. You can do that, but that means buying without regard for system.

That is what you took from my point? Really? Are you that literal? Ok, moving on.

"And another champion has taken up the banner"

Not really. I see what I see. From my perspective, you'd have to be naive not to at least acknowledge the possibility that Sony may not be especially interested in supporting A-mount shooters with new camera bodies. If/when Sony releases something new and compelling for A-mount, I will be interested. Until then, it's all idle chatter.

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Hunter

Which goes all the way back to my first post. "From my perspective." Not from the perspective of the people in charge of producing the camera. You are "just some dude". You are entitled to your own opinion, but we all must use the same facts. Because we don't agree with them, does not mean we get to dismiss them or create alternate scenarios out of thin air. There is a difference between that and a "wish list." The fact is, since I bought my fist A-mount in 1990, the bodies have been released on the same schedule over the ensuing 23 years. That is a fact, it happened, it is public record. Any statement to the contrary is ignorance at best,  revisionist history at worst.

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