Official statement on Sony A-mount future...

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Dave Oddie
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, 11 months ago

artlmntl wrote:

leonche64 wrote:

Sony NEVER said they were not going to make more A-mount cameras. Just some dudes on a website said it. I will repeat that, because it bears repeating. Some dudes on a website. Not Sony reps, employees, janitors, nothing. Not in anyway in the know. They have pulled a real good Tom Sawyer. Even now, after we have word from the company, they come with the "that's not what it really means" statements. The delusional grandeur of some is truly astounding. You are just some dude. You made it up. Your evidence is inadmissible. You have no pattern of which to refer, nor a motive. It is not even hearsay because no one said it. You made it up. You are dismissed. Now go outside and take some photos with your Canon, because there is no way you own a Sony.

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

Questions about A-mount are spawned from the information and lack of same currently available about the future of A-mount cameras.

The required information has been supplied to end questions about the A-mount and yet....

If Sony planned to continue marketing SLTs, people would be posting their wishes for the next SLTs. But Sony has said, look for an all-mirrorless approach.

But wait... NEX is already mirrorless, though it lacks PDAF and IBIS. I don't know what it all means, but there are some logical gaps in what Sony appears to be doing. For NEX shooters, it's all gravy. Use adapter, shoot with lens of choice. Hope for better AF on future releases. For A-mount shooters, it's not so obvious.

When the gap between A700 and A77 was four years, Sony wasn't going on a binge to fill out the e-mount line. The e-mounts weren't getting the latest APS-C sensors and there was no talk of a FF NEX.

People wonder how this is all going to shake out. It's natural for anyone who looks at this with a critical point of view. The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing. The only proof that matters is new gear. Watch what they do, not what they say.

As for your spurious claim that the people posting here questioning the future of A-mount don't own Sony cameras, that's silly. But it is possible, even likely, that some of us will simply decide to go somewhere else when it's time to upgrade. If enough of us do that, it's true, A-mount will no longer matter.

....you still keep asking the same questions based on pure speculation.

And this "The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing." is quite frankly ridiculous.

You can't be so dismissive of an official statement and expect people to believe your baseless speculation.  The above post of yours isn't a well thought out argument or looking at it with a "critical view".  It's not even a sensible opinion as those have to have something to back them up.

Sony have said what they are going to do.  You have chosen not to believe them but for no good reason.

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Tonkotsu Ramen
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Lucas_, 11 months ago

Lucas_ wrote:

Tonkotsu Ramen wrote:

Was this verified by a press release? Or just someone claiming to have gotten an email from Sony?

Hehehe...! Now that's more like paranoia... Is that because you didn't get a letter from Sony?

Please, for you own sake, go take some photos!

... Lucas

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Always having fun with photography
http://www.lucaspix.smugmug.com/

i don't think it's unreasonable to verify a source... -.-

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artlmntl
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to leonche64, 11 months ago

leonche64 wrote:

When the gap between A700 and A77 was four years, Sony wasn't going on a binge to fill out the e-mount line. The e-mounts weren't getting the latest APS-C sensors and there was no talk of a FF NEX.

Has nothing to do with anything A-mount. Want to shoot NEX? Shoot NEX. History remains the same. Toyota makes the Lexus LS and the Corolla.

Non sequitor. Cars are self-contained and you buy a new one to completely replace the old one. Cameras have this weird notion of system with lenses outlasting bodies, so there is the idea that you want to get an improved body to go with your (growing?) collection of lenses. Otherwise, no reason to care about lens mount. Get a Sony this time? Happens to have an A-mount. Get a canon next time and a Nikon after that. You can do that, but that means buying without regard for system.

"And another champion has taken up the banner"

Not really. I see what I see. From my perspective, you'd have to be naive not to at least acknowledge the possibility that Sony may not be especially interested in supporting A-mount shooters with new camera bodies. If/when Sony releases something new and compelling for A-mount, I will be interested. Until then, it's all idle chatter.

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Hunter

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artlmntl
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We agree to disagree. Time will tell. n/t
In reply to Dave Oddie, 11 months ago
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phaedin
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, 11 months ago

Did you check an Asian site?

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artlmntl
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Thanks for your reply :)
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

Dennis wrote:

artlmntl wrote:

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

All true enough. In Nikon world, some have been waiting for the D400 for years and see the lack of DX lenses as a sign that Nikon is abandoning DX. Nobody knows. (Obviously they're not abandoning DX, but these people care about high end stuff; not entry level).

But that's a big different ... there, the speculation is based on the fact that the D300s is over 4 years old, and dedicated DX lineup is full of holes and stale. Here in A mount world, Sony just released a 500/4 and the A58 was only announced half a year ago. Let's just say the speculation is more ... speculative

Questions about A-mount are spawned from the information and lack of same currently available about the future of A-mount cameras.

How so ? Seems it's more like drawing conclusions from possibilities.

Olympus gave up on native 4/3 bodies in favor of a native m43 body with PDAF-on-sensor and an adaptor.

Sony has a FF NEX camcorder that uses Alpha lenses or e-Mount lenses in crop mode.

That points to possibilities, but in no way suggests probabilities.

If Sony planned to continue marketing SLTs, people would be posting their wishes for the next SLTs. But Sony has said, look for an all-mirrorless approach.

Yes, that was obvious from the day they introduced the SLT. It was widely viewed as a kludge - an interim approach until PDAF-on-sensor would enable them to get rid of the light-robbing mirror. If this is your basis for speculating on the demise of A mount, then this is all pure "the sky is falling" stuff.

But wait... NEX is already mirrorless, though it lacks PDAF and IBIS. I don't know what it all means, but there are some logical gaps in what Sony appears to be doing. For NEX shooters, it's all gravy. Use adapter, shoot with lens of choice. Hope for better AF on future releases. For A-mount shooters, it's not so obvious.

You're basically saying that A mount users have reason to be concerned *if* the speculation is valid. Nothing about that suggests that the speculation is valid.

People wonder how this is all going to shake out. It's natural for anyone who looks at this with a critical point of view. The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing. The only proof that matters is new gear. Watch what they do, not what they say.

Very little time has passed since there's been new gear. And when new gear does arrive, the Chicken Littles will wonder if it's just the last iteration. If people were to get a signed contract from the CEO of Sony, they'd worry about what happens when he's no longer CEO !

All that said, I do see the eventual end of *native* A mount bodies as a *possibility* (not a likelihood and not soon). But just as you indicated it's "all gravy" to e-mounters, if it does ever happen, I believe it will be just as good for A mounters. I don't think it will happen before PDAF-on-sensor matches what SLTs can do today and a body can be developed that mimics the usability of todays SLT bodies.

Speculation is fun, interesting, informative. Disproportionate worry over unsubstantiated speculation is detrimental.

- Dennis

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Yes, I agree with the bulk of this. Personally, when the new gear arrives, if I have not spent my money elsewhere, I will consider it. If I like it, and it's in the budget, I'm buying it. And yes, it does seem to me that Sony may well become e-mount first with adapter support for other mounts.

I also agree about the speculation. It's fun, but it's only speculation. My position is mostly based on the fact that e-mount is already mirrorless, e-mount bodies can support a-mount lenses via adapter, and Sony is fitting e-mount bodies with current APS-C sensors. Also, strong rumors suggest that a NEX FF is in testing.If it emerges, it may change the game.

Again, it seems odd to me that Sony will spend money to build and market A- and E-mount versions of essentially the same cameras, especially when some articles I have seen indicate that e-mount caneras have been a lot more profitable than a-mount cameras. Couple that with the fact that Sony is having financial problems, and you get an interesting situation.

I don't demand agreement and I'm not telling anyone to run away screaming. I am saying, look at that situation. There are some interesting possibilities. But we will have to wait to see what Sony does.

Anyway, thanks for your reply

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Hunter

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artlmntl
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to phaedin, 11 months ago

phaedin wrote:

Did you check an Asian site?

No, but I'll be happy to do that. Do you have some links? And what would you like me to see on those sites?

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Hunter

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Nate Dogg
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, 11 months ago

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

Nate Dogg wrote:

Please, spare me the grief/first world problems...

There are people struggling to put food on their table, so people speculating/complaining about the future of their camera gear is getting a little obnoxious. Furthermore, camera gear should never be thought of as an "investment", and those that do are foolish with their money -- it's a consumable, in relative terms.

BTW, this is coming from someone who has a lot of money wrapped up (not invested) in the A-Mount system. Basically, that just means I have a lot off cool gear to shoot with right now.

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-Nate

If this is how you feel you're kind of hanging around in/on the wrong forums aren't you ? This is a gear forum and as such folks will agonise about these things. I agree materialism like this can be crass but preaching morals to posters is equally obnoxious.

-- hide signature --

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansell Adams.

Once again, spare me. It would be one thing if this was only one of only few threads on the matter, but instead, it's probably one of the most talk about subjects on this forum -- at this point, it's a "dead horse".

Why don't you ask yourself what is more likely to ensure the success of the A-Mount system -- People coming onto the forum seeing tons of topics about the impending doom of the system, or instead, people showing off great photos and discussing what features they love/don't love  and what they hope to see in future models.

Or as a third alternative, don't ask yourself anything and just go out and enjoy the gear you have. As your signature says, "I shall focus with photographs".

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-Nate

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tqlla
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to theswede, 11 months ago

theswede wrote:

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

Nikon 1 V1 and Canon EOS M would like to have a word with you.

There is no difference between the situations for Nikon, Canon and Sony. They all have a DSLR mount and a mirrorless mount. They all divide their resources between them.

The only difference is with the pundits who are going chicken little on the A-mount.

Jesper

No difference?  Get serious.

  1. Canon and Nikon have Large bases that are heavily invested in lenses.
  2. The EOS-M and 1 series are newish with a small base
  3. The EOS-Ms sales are relatively small at this time. And the first iteration was panned.
  4. The 1 series is based on a 1" sensor.  It's not even close on an IQ level. 
  • The NEX camera's can compete with Amounts in terms of IQ
  • The NEX Ecosystem is large and growing
  • The Amount base is small compared to Canon and Nikon
  • Nex Sales are a large chunk of interchangeable lens camera sales for Sony
  • Sony is releasing a Full Frame Nex, whereas the Nikon 1 series has a 1" sensor, and Canon hasn't even released an M that works well.

The V1's IQ is no where near the quality of a DSLR. I bought one for $250 new($900 MSRP).  I gave it to a friend, because I couldn't stand it.

Maybe in 5 years, the EOS M-mounts could cause concerns for Canon users.

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Dennis
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Re: Thanks for your reply :)
In reply to artlmntl, 11 months ago

Sounds like you've got a great perspective on it !  It's an interesting situation.  I firmly believe there will be more A mount bodies; I don't think that Sony has decided on a long term strategy yet and anything is possible.

It's a tough time to be a photographer if you're very particular, but a great time if you're open to new possibilities (or are flexible enough to enjoy the IQ no matter the for factor).  I fall somewhere in the middle, but my particulars are satisfied right now

- Dennis

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theswede
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, 11 months ago

I don't know. They don't interest me at all.

Nor me. But mirrorless is big in Japan, and all of Asia.

I think, if you want something a lot smaller with a bigger sensor, Sony wins. And you pay a premium for that.

Indeed. And there is a nice overlap between the Sony systems. An E mount system already has two ways to mount A mount lenses, and it is unlikely it will end there.

What surprises me is how slow Europe and the US are in adopting mirrorless.

Maybe people in Europe and the US don't like the ergonomics of tiny, box-shaped cameras. I can't speak for others, but I like the dslr bodies. I don't want a tiny box. YMMV.

It does vary. I like my Fuji X100 very much, and plan for my next ILC camera to be a NEX. I have no interest in a pure A mount body, although I plan to get a few more A mount lenses.

Jesper

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theswede
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to tqlla, 11 months ago

No difference? Get serious.

Actually you're right. There is a difference; a huge one. Namely that E mount systems can use A mount lenses, which makes the competition between the mounts a lot less interesting than the competition in Nikon and Canon. The E mount is backwards compatible, and that is very good news for A mount.

But of course, canikon SLR mounts have a vast base, as you mention, so they're not going anywhere. But then, neither is A mount.

Jesper

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Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Nate Dogg, 11 months ago

Nate Dogg wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

Nate Dogg wrote:

Please, spare me the grief/first world problems...

There are people struggling to put food on their table, so people speculating/complaining about the future of their camera gear is getting a little obnoxious. Furthermore, camera gear should never be thought of as an "investment", and those that do are foolish with their money -- it's a consumable, in relative terms.

BTW, this is coming from someone who has a lot of money wrapped up (not invested) in the A-Mount system. Basically, that just means I have a lot off cool gear to shoot with right now.

-- hide signature --

-Nate

If this is how you feel you're kind of hanging around in/on the wrong forums aren't you ? This is a gear forum and as such folks will agonise about these things. I agree materialism like this can be crass but preaching morals to posters is equally obnoxious.

-- hide signature --

"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansell Adams.

Once again, spare me. It would be one thing if this was only one of only few threads on the matter, but instead, it's probably one of the most talk about subjects on this forum -- at this point, it's a "dead horse".

Why don't you ask yourself what is more likely to ensure the success of the A-Mount system -- People coming onto the forum seeing tons of topics about the impending doom of the system, or instead, people showing off great photos and discussing what features they love/don't love and what they hope to see in future models.

Or as a third alternative, don't ask yourself anything and just go out and enjoy the gear you have. As your signature says, "I shall focus with photographs".

-- hide signature --

-Nate

Nate, you are preaching to the converted and I'm unsure why you persist in portraying me as someone who enjoys or supports all this future of a mount agonising. Have you miissed my first post to this thread where I make.a point very similar to the  one you made here, or my thread a few days ago where I said that maybe we should all just get on with taking photographs. I'm perplexed as to why you feel the need to target me with your comments when I'm not the instigator of these threads and we actually appear to share quite similar views. While I can't say I have experienced the hardships of those people in certain parts of the world, I have had my life threatened, lost loved ones, and know full well how to put things like cameras and pixels in perspective in comparison with the things that really matter in life - people. Even if I live in the first world.  If you wish, persist in being antagonistic, but for me, life's too short for petty squabbles like this. Happy shooting.

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"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansell Adams.

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phaedin
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, 11 months ago

Why did you bother to check North American sites for mirror less when it has already been acknowledged that the mirror less market is not strong?
Asian sites would have been more interesting as the acertion was made that mirror less in Asia is a growth market

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Nate Dogg
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, 11 months ago

Marco, I was by no means targeting you (or any other specific person for that matter) with my very first post, entitled "Get over it". You were actually the first to engage me, insinuating that I should simply understand the point that folks have "invested" into to A-Mount and are understandably concerned. I was just giving you my rebuttal.

Please don't take my post(s) as personal attacks, that's certainly not my intent -- I just wish folks would stop worrying so much about the future and instead be happy with and use what they currently have. At some point all interchangeable lens cameras will probably become obsolete, but we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

On a final note, and as for the world poverty thing, I was just being a bit facetious to make a point, don't read too much into it.

Happy shooting, indeed!

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-Nate

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007peter
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Actually, mirrorless appeal in Asia is overstated, DSLR thrives here as well
In reply to phaedin, 11 months ago

phaedin wrote:

Why did you bother to check North American sites for mirror less when it has already been acknowledged that the mirror less market is not strong?
Asian sites would have been more interesting as the acertion was made that mirror less in Asia is a growth market

I'm from Asia and I can tell you the popularity of mirrorless is highly exaggerated by Panasonic and Olympus.  The truth is - if you bother to come to Asia - you will likely see that Canon + Nikon DSLR are everywhere.  In China, BIG CANON DSLR = STATUS SYMBOL.  Like a Gold Watch.  Female here prefer small canon rebel dslr ove any other mirrorless.

The only difference I see is that Sony NEX is extremely popular here.  If you see a Sony, 8/10 times it'll be a NEX and not a Sony SLT.  I don't blame Sony for pushing E-mount over A-mount, its what is selling well for Sony, and where the profit is.

I would say Asian are more Brand Conscious than Size Conscious.  Sony is a strong brand and Asian prefer Sony to Nikon in the brand prestige.  I would rank Canon as #1 with Sony as #2 (mostly NEX), followed by Nikon DSLR.

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Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Nate Dogg, 11 months ago

Nate Dogg wrote:

Marco, I was by no means targeting you (or any other specific person for that matter) with my very first post, entitled "Get over it". You were actually the first to engage me, insinuating that I should simply understand the point that folks have "invested" into to A-Mount and are understandably concerned. I was just giving you my rebuttal.

Please don't take my post(s) as personal attacks, that's certainly not my intent -- I just wish folks would stop worrying so much about the future and instead be happy with and use what they currently have. At some point all interchangeable lens cameras will probably become obsolete, but we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

On a final note, and as for the world poverty thing, I was just being a bit facetious to make a point, don't read too much into it.

Happy shooting, indeed!

-- hide signature --

-Nate

No hard feelings Nate, cheers.

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"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansell Adams.

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jerome_munich
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Re: Actually, mirrorless appeal in Asia is overstated, DSLR thrives here as well
In reply to 007peter, 11 months ago

007peter wrote:

I'm from Asia and I can tell you the popularity of mirrorless is highly exaggerated by Panasonic and Olympus. The truth is - if you bother to come to Asia - you will likely see that Canon + Nikon DSLR are everywhere. In China, BIG CANON DSLR = STATUS SYMBOL. Like a Gold Watch. Female here prefer small canon rebel dslr ove any other mirrorless.

The only difference I see is that Sony NEX is extremely popular here. If you see a Sony, 8/10 times it'll be a NEX and not a Sony SLT. I don't blame Sony for pushing E-mount over A-mount, its what is selling well for Sony, and where the profit is.

I would say Asian are more Brand Conscious than Size Conscious. Sony is a strong brand and Asian prefer Sony to Nikon in the brand prestige. I would rank Canon as #1 with Sony as #2 (mostly NEX), followed by Nikon DSLR.

This has also been my observation in Asia (China and Malaysia) and amongst Asian tourists in Europe.

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to theswede, 11 months ago

theswede wrote:

We currently do not have advanced information on the release of cameras, lenses

I think that qualifier may negate the whole statement.

So the fact that Sony is a large corporation with rules on product information release means nothing it says is ever true?

I have no idea how you read his words that way. Let me translate:

The only one from Sony who can give something resembling a guarantee about the future of A-mount is the person(s) who decides what happens to A-mount.

That/those person(s) would also have access to all information regarding upcoming A-mount product.

The quote clearly shows that the message was written by someone without this access.

Consequently, it was written by a person who is not in a position to give any guarantee regarding Sony's intentions.

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theswede
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Allan Olesen, 11 months ago

Allan Olesen wrote:

theswede wrote:

We currently do not have advanced information on the release of cameras, lenses

I think that qualifier may negate the whole statement.

So the fact that Sony is a large corporation with rules on product information release means nothing it says is ever true?

I have no idea how you read his words that way.

Interesting, since that is precisely what he said.

Let me translate:

This ought to be interesting. Go on!

The only one from Sony who can give something resembling a guarantee about the future of A-mount is the person(s) who decides what happens to A-mount.

That ... is not even remotely true. Anyone who has been briefed about what happens to A-mount by these persons can also give something resembling a guarantee. This is a corporation, where decisions involve huge amounts of engineering, purchases, marketing and logistics. A decision to, for example, make a series of new A mount lenses is nothing which is done in an afternoon and then delivered to the presses the morning after. It takes years.

That/those person(s) would also have access to all information regarding upcoming A-mount product.

Access to information and liberty to divulge this information is two completely separate things. I have access to a lot of information about what my company is planning to do, but if you ask me about it I can't tell you. I have signed multiple confidentiality agreements, and even if I hadn't it would be against ethics to divulge such information.

The same applies to Sony, to an even higher extent.

The quote clearly shows that the message was written by someone without this access.

That is plainly false. What the quote shows is that the message was written by someone without authority to divulge confidential information. It says nothing at all about the persons access to such information.

Consequently, it was written by a person who is not in a position to give any guarantee regarding Sony's intentions.

This does not follow. It was written by a person who is not allowed to prematurely release product information.

It would be downright folly of Sony to allow a person who has no knowledge of the future plans of Sony to send out assuring messages with non specific information, and while Sony does some strange things at times this would be too stupid a move even for them.

Consequently, it was most likely written by a person who was in a position to give guarantees regarding Sony's intention but not in a position to provide specifics.

Jesper

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