Official statement on Sony A-mount future...

Started Sep 26, 2013 | Discussions
Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Nate Dogg, Sep 26, 2013

Nate Dogg wrote:

It's so interesting to me that some folks are more interested in conspiracy theories about their cameras than actually using them. Instead of worrying about what may happen some day, why don't you go out and enjoy /take some photos with what you already have, so we can talk about that instead.

Either get over it or switch to a different system.
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-Nate

Your sentiment has merit, although I can understand anxiety to an extent when folks may have invested $1000s in lenses and accessories and then feel unsure if they will continue to be supported by compatible cameras.

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Atgard
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to JohnBee, Sep 26, 2013

Bottom line, if I never read all the hand-wringing on forums, I would have zero concern that A-mount is going away.

I know everyone wants 6 new A-mount bodies and 12 new A-mount lenses per year, but that's just not in the cards. The fact that Sony's schedule is slower than that does not mean death of the A-mount.

If we ever go 12-24 months with no new A-mount lenses or cameras, then there might be some possible reason to have these discussions.

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leonche64
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, Sep 26, 2013

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

Nate Dogg wrote:

It's so interesting to me that some folks are more interested in conspiracy theories about their cameras than actually using them. Instead of worrying about what may happen some day, why don't you go out and enjoy /take some photos with what you already have, so we can talk about that instead.

Either get over it or switch to a different system.
--
-Nate

Your sentiment has merit, although I can understand anxiety to an extent when folks may have invested $1000s in lenses and accessories and then feel unsure if they will continue to be supported by compatible cameras.

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"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansell Adams.

I am in total agreement with Nate Dogg. People feel anxiety because they choose to create their own reality rather than share the one the rest of us live in. I have followed 2 threads closely for the last week or so. All about how "the end is neigh" for the A-mount. I was seriously wondering where all that was coming from. Surely not people that had invested $1,000s in the system. That would imply a certain about of time on deck which would have infused historical markers from which to draw conclusions, not just from thin air. For example, the time difference between the KM-A7D and the A700 was 4 years. The gap between the A700 and the A77 was 4 years, and today the question is where is a replacement for the 7series? See where I am going?

(Not directed at Marco)

Sony NEVER said they were not going to make more A-mount cameras. Just some dudes on a website said it. I will repeat that, because it bears repeating. Some dudes on a website. Not Sony reps, employees, janitors, nothing. Not in anyway in the know. They have pulled a real good Tom Sawyer. Even now, after we have  word from the company, they come with the "that's not what it really means" statements. The delusional grandeur of some is truly astounding. You are just some dude. You made it up. Your evidence is inadmissible. You have no pattern of which to refer,  nor a motive. It is not even hearsay because no one said it. You made it up. You are dismissed. Now go outside and take some photos with your Canon, because there is no way you own a Sony.

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Tonkotsu Ramen
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to JohnBee, Sep 26, 2013

Was this verified by a press release? Or just someone claiming to have gotten an email from Sony?

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Dave Oddie
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Straw man argument
In reply to liquid stereo, Sep 26, 2013

liquid stereo wrote:

JohnBee wrote:

Caught this from the Sony Alpha Rumors website this morning:

Thank you for contacting Sony Support. I understand that your concern is regarding the A-mount being replaced by the E-mount system. The A-mount units have always been the flagship ever since the release of the very first Sony Alpha camera. Much like the Single Lens Translucent (SLT) technology, the E-mount system is an innovation, introduced to further expand our interchangeable lens line, and in no way a replacement for the A-mount system. Rest assured thatwe will further develop the A-mount system together with the E-mount, introducing new technology and upgrading features. We will continue to expand our lens and accessory selection, as well as better the functions of the cameras to adapt to our customers growing needs and wants. We currently do not have advanced information on the release of cameras, lenses and accessories, as well as software and firmware updates. Sony Electronics only releases full product and support information at the same time it is officially released to the marketplace by our Marketing Department. However, some limited advanced information is often published in various magazine articles. You may also check the Sony Support and Sony Store website below for news and updates in the future.

Official newsbit

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This is where I'd normally write an impressive summary of my skills and proficiencies.

What makes me think this is b.s. - "You may also check the Sony Support and Sony Store website below for news and updates in the future."

The Sony Store website is oftentimes months out-of-date.

But it doesn't matter. I cannot imagine Sony abandoning the A-mount. I.e. the lenses will be usable and that is all that really matters. (All other concerns will be taken care of. They won't cancel the traditional A-mount cameras and replace them with a lower-performing A-E hybrid.)

Or, consider this... Imagine if Sony said the opposite. Suppose they said "There is no replacement for the A-mount system. We will not further development the A-mount system."

You can't consider that because they didn't say it.  It's a straw man argument (or false premise if you prefer) to argue against something by making up a fictitious position.

Sony just said the A mount will continue to be developed and you either take that as the truth of the matter or have some actual evidence as to why it is false and straw man arguments are not evidence.

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Thom Hogan put it a bit more eloquently
In reply to liquid stereo, Sep 26, 2013

liquid stereo wrote:

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/dslr-versus-mirrorless.html

Did he?

He said this:

"Thus, I suspect we'll see smaller DSLRs (but with the same overall thickness at the mount), but when Canon and Nikon DSLRs really go mirrorless, they won't change size in depth at all (e.g. will retain the mount)."

Sony's statement tells you they are going to do the same thing with the A mount.

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theswede
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to steelhead3, Sep 26, 2013

We currently do not have advanced information on the release of cameras, lenses

I think that qualifier may negate the whole statement.

So the fact that Sony is a large corporation with rules on product information release means nothing it says is ever true?

Jesper

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Get over it
In reply to leonche64, Sep 26, 2013

leonche64 wrote:


Sony NEVER said they were not going to make more A-mount cameras. Just some dudes on a website said it. I will repeat that, because it bears repeating. Some dudes on a website. Not Sony reps, employees, janitors, nothing. Not in anyway in the know. They have pulled a real good Tom Sawyer. Even now, after we have word from the company, they come with the "that's not what it really means" statements. The delusional grandeur of some is truly astounding. You are just some dude. You made it up. Your evidence is inadmissible. You have no pattern of which to refer, nor a motive. It is not even hearsay because no one said it. You made it up.

Well said.  I'd also add they have no evidence to admit never mind it being inadmissible.

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artlmntl
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You get over it!
In reply to leonche64, Sep 26, 2013

leonche64 wrote:

Sony NEVER said they were not going to make more A-mount cameras. Just some dudes on a website said it. I will repeat that, because it bears repeating. Some dudes on a website. Not Sony reps, employees, janitors, nothing. Not in anyway in the know. They have pulled a real good Tom Sawyer. Even now, after we have word from the company, they come with the "that's not what it really means" statements. The delusional grandeur of some is truly astounding. You are just some dude. You made it up. Your evidence is inadmissible. You have no pattern of which to refer, nor a motive. It is not even hearsay because no one said it. You made it up. You are dismissed. Now go outside and take some photos with your Canon, because there is no way you own a Sony.

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

Questions about A-mount are spawned from the information and lack of same currently available about the future of A-mount cameras. If Sony planned to continue marketing SLTs, people would be posting their wishes for the next SLTs. But Sony has said, look for an all-mirrorless approach.

But wait... NEX is already mirrorless, though it lacks PDAF and IBIS. I don't know what it all means, but there are some logical gaps in what Sony appears to be doing. For NEX shooters, it's all gravy. Use adapter, shoot with lens of choice. Hope for better AF on future releases. For A-mount shooters, it's not so obvious.

When the gap between A700 and A77 was four years, Sony wasn't going on a binge to fill out the e-mount line. The e-mounts weren't getting the latest APS-C sensors and there was no talk of a FF NEX.

People wonder how this is all going to shake out. It's natural for anyone who looks at this with a critical point of view. The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing. The only proof that matters is new gear. Watch what they do, not what they say.

As for your spurious claim that the people posting here questioning the future of A-mount don't own Sony cameras, that's silly. But it is possible, even likely, that some of us will simply decide to go somewhere else when it's time to upgrade. If enough of us do that, it's true, A-mount will no longer matter.

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theswede
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, Sep 26, 2013

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

Nikon 1 V1 and Canon EOS M would like to have a word with you.

There is no difference between the situations for Nikon, Canon and Sony. They all have a DSLR mount and a mirrorless mount. They all divide their resources between them.

The only difference is with the pundits who are going chicken little on the A-mount.

Jesper

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artlmntl
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to theswede, Sep 26, 2013

theswede wrote:

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

Nikon 1 V1 and Canon EOS M would like to have a word with you.

There is no difference between the situations for Nikon, Canon and Sony. They all have a DSLR mount and a mirrorless mount. They all divide their resources between them.

The only difference is with the pundits who are going chicken little on the A-mount.

Jesper

I don't think Canon or Nikon are quite as committed to their mirrorless offerings, at least not yet. It will be interesting to see what develops with them, too.

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theswede
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, Sep 26, 2013

I don't think Canon or Nikon are quite as committed to their mirrorless offerings, at least not yet.

Considering how mirrorless sells in Japan and overall in Asia, I think that assumption is misguided. Only high end DSLR's sell appreciably in Japan. On the lower end mirrorless is rapidly taking over.

It will be interesting to see what develops with them, too.

What surprises me is how slow Europe and the US are in adopting mirrorless.

Jesper

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Michel J, Sep 26, 2013

Michel J wrote:

I know that the SLT cameras are noteworthy in every aspects. However, if the A-mout is perceived with little love and/or uncertain future for some people, it is not because the lack of consistency lineup development is the cause of this redundant questionning?

Why Sony wouldn't have achieving only one mount properly and continuously at his best, than two mounts what beginning to compete now? (And are perceived apparently, not to give complete satisfaction in their respective market segments. Although this is not entirely true),

Sony's E-mount could be seen as video mount (although, then there is the Sony FZ mount as well). The E-mount advantage is adaptation, especially useful in video. As of today, E-mount cannot do what A-mount can.

In the future, we expect mirror-less AF system to catch up to mirrored counterparts. To Sony, that can mean consolidation of technologies but not necessarily of mounts. And each mount can serve a different purpose, without requiring additional engineering: E-mount for range finder form (NEX) and for compact/small bodied ILCs (A3000 is first of the series). A-mount will be for larger bodies, likely tuned more for performance than size/weight (there will always be a trade-off).

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Dennis
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, Sep 26, 2013

artlmntl wrote:

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

All true enough.  In Nikon world, some have been waiting for the D400 for years and see the lack of DX lenses as a sign that Nikon is abandoning DX.  Nobody knows.  (Obviously they're not abandoning DX, but these people care about high end stuff; not entry level).

But that's a big different ... there, the speculation is based on the fact that the D300s is over 4 years old, and dedicated DX lineup is full of holes and stale.  Here in A mount world, Sony just released a 500/4 and the A58 was only announced half a year ago.  Let's just say the speculation is more ... speculative

Questions about A-mount are spawned from the information and lack of same currently available about the future of A-mount cameras.

How so ?  Seems it's more like drawing conclusions from possibilities.

Olympus gave up on native 4/3 bodies in favor of a native m43 body with PDAF-on-sensor and an adaptor.

Sony has a FF NEX camcorder that uses Alpha lenses or e-Mount lenses in crop mode.

That points to possibilities, but in no way suggests probabilities.

If Sony planned to continue marketing SLTs, people would be posting their wishes for the next SLTs. But Sony has said, look for an all-mirrorless approach.

Yes, that was obvious from the day they introduced the SLT.  It was widely viewed as a kludge - an interim approach until PDAF-on-sensor would enable them to get rid of the light-robbing mirror.  If this is your basis for speculating on the demise of A mount, then this is all pure "the sky is falling" stuff.

But wait... NEX is already mirrorless, though it lacks PDAF and IBIS. I don't know what it all means, but there are some logical gaps in what Sony appears to be doing. For NEX shooters, it's all gravy. Use adapter, shoot with lens of choice. Hope for better AF on future releases. For A-mount shooters, it's not so obvious.

You're basically saying that A mount users have reason to be concerned *if* the speculation is valid.  Nothing about that suggests that the speculation is valid.

People wonder how this is all going to shake out. It's natural for anyone who looks at this with a critical point of view. The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing. The only proof that matters is new gear. Watch what they do, not what they say.

Very little time has passed since there's been new gear.  And when new gear does arrive, the Chicken Littles will wonder if it's just the last iteration.  If people were to get a signed contract from the CEO of Sony, they'd worry about what happens when he's no longer CEO !

All that said, I do see the eventual end of *native* A mount bodies as a *possibility* (not a likelihood and not soon).  But just as you indicated it's "all gravy" to e-mounters, if it does ever happen, I believe it will be just as good for A mounters.  I don't think it will happen before PDAF-on-sensor matches what SLTs can do today and a body can be developed that mimics the usability of todays SLT bodies.

Speculation is fun, interesting, informative.  Disproportionate worry over unsubstantiated speculation is detrimental.

- Dennis

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Dennis
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Re: One thing appears obvious though...
In reply to 4thnebula, Sep 26, 2013

4thnebula wrote:

Sony is expending most of its current energy, time and cost on the E-Mount system. This makes sense in that the E-Mount system does need to be brought up to full potential and soon if Sony wants to stay competitive. That means one, or more, FF E-Mount cameras, more better lenses for E-Mount.

However, another way to look at it is that Sony has not been bringing out any A-Mount camera body replacements other than the a58. An example would be no a79 (not even announced) so far.

The A77 came along years after the A700.  I wouldn't expect a replacement for another year at least.  It was early on the 24MP bandwagon.  Next logical step is a similar camera updated with PDAF-on-sensor, but it needs more than that to differentiate it from the A77.

Don't read too much into the tea leaves.

- Dennis

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leonche64
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to artlmntl, Sep 26, 2013

artlmntl wrote:

leonche64 wrote:

Sony NEVER said they were not going to make more A-mount cameras. Just some dudes on a website said it. I will repeat that, because it bears repeating. Some dudes on a website. Not Sony reps, employees, janitors, nothing. Not in anyway in the know. They have pulled a real good Tom Sawyer. Even now, after we have word from the company, they come with the "that's not what it really means" statements. The delusional grandeur of some is truly astounding. You are just some dude. You made it up. Your evidence is inadmissible. You have no pattern of which to refer, nor a motive. It is not even hearsay because no one said it. You made it up. You are dismissed. Now go outside and take some photos with your Canon, because there is no way you own a Sony.

Very emotional, but this is a gear forum. It *is* appropriate to speculate. The Nikon people are wringing their hands over the prospects of a D610 and the Canon folk want to know about their 7D Mk II. So, speculation is normal. But those people don't have a competing mount from within the same company to confuse the issues.

I am actually in good humor, not emotional at all. But the written word does not always convey that. I have no idea about the Nikon and Cannon folk. Not interested, not affected.

Questions about A-mount are spawned from the information and lack of same currently available about the future of A-mount cameras. If Sony planned to continue marketing SLTs, people would be posting their wishes for the next SLTs. But Sony has said, look for an all-mirrorless approach.

If a discussion is conducted as information gathering that is perfectly fine. That is not the discussion to which what I was referring. I was referring to the proclamations and dissemination of doom.

But wait... NEX is already mirrorless, though it lacks PDAF and IBIS. I don't know what it all means, but there are some logical gaps in what Sony appears to be doing. For NEX shooters, it's all gravy. Use adapter, shoot with lens of choice. Hope for better AF on future releases. For A-mount shooters, it's not so obvious.

Not so obvious, so sit down and wait.

When the gap between A700 and A77 was four years, Sony wasn't going on a binge to fill out the e-mount line. The e-mounts weren't getting the latest APS-C sensors and there was no talk of a FF NEX.

Has nothing to do with anything A-mount. Want to shoot NEX? Shoot NEX. History remains the same. Toyota makes the Lexus LS and the Corolla.

People wonder how this is all going to shake out. It's natural for anyone who looks at this with a critical point of view. The OP's post of a reply from Sony support on his rumor site really proves nothing. The only proof that matters is new gear. Watch what they do, not what they say.

"And another champion has taken up the banner"

As for your spurious claim that the people posting here questioning the future of A-mount don't own Sony cameras, that's silly. But it is possible, even likely, that some of us will simply decide to go somewhere else when it's time to upgrade. If enough of us do that, it's true, A-mount will no longer matter.

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Hunter

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artlmntl
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Re: You get over it!
In reply to theswede, Sep 26, 2013

theswede wrote:

I don't think Canon or Nikon are quite as committed to their mirrorless offerings, at least not yet.

Considering how mirrorless sells in Japan and overall in Asia, I think that assumption is misguided. Only high end DSLR's sell appreciably in Japan. On the lower end mirrorless is rapidly taking over.

I don't know. They don't interest me at all. Let's see.

The 1V1 appears to have 11 lenses, most of them in the 3.5-5.6 range, none of them longer than 110mm. And the body is ~$780 on the Amazon with a 10-30mm lens.

The EOS M appears to be discontinued. Adorama is not stocking it. I find evidence of a 22mm and an 18-55mm lens. Prices on the EOS M apparently collapsed. They are running ~$351 on Amazon with an 18-55 lens. It doesn't sound like any sort of threat, but who knows?

I think, if you want something a lot smaller with a bigger sensor, Sony wins. And you pay a premium for that.

It will be interesting to see what develops with them, too.

What surprises me is how slow Europe and the US are in adopting mirrorless.

Maybe people in Europe and the US don't like the ergonomics of tiny, box-shaped cameras. I can't speak for others, but I like the dslr bodies. I don't want a tiny box. YMMV.

Jesper

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Lucas_
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Re: Official statement on Sony A-mount future...
In reply to Tonkotsu Ramen, Sep 26, 2013

Tonkotsu Ramen wrote:

Was this verified by a press release? Or just someone claiming to have gotten an email from Sony?

Hehehe...! Now that's more like paranoia... Is that because you didn't get a letter from Sony?

Please, for you own sake, go take some photos!

... Lucas

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Nate Dogg
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, Sep 26, 2013

Please, spare me the grief/first world problems...

There are people struggling to put food on their table, so people speculating/complaining about the future of their camera gear is getting a little obnoxious. Furthermore, camera gear should never be thought of as an "investment", and those that do are foolish with their money -- it's a consumable, in relative terms.

BTW, this is coming from someone who has a lot of money wrapped up (not invested) in the A-Mount system. Basically, that just means I have a lot off cool gear to shoot with right now.

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-Nate

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Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Get over it
In reply to Nate Dogg, Sep 26, 2013

Nate Dogg wrote:

Please, spare me the grief/first world problems...

There are people struggling to put food on their table, so people speculating/complaining about the future of their camera gear is getting a little obnoxious. Furthermore, camera gear should never be thought of as an "investment", and those that do are foolish with their money -- it's a consumable, in relative terms.

BTW, this is coming from someone who has a lot of money wrapped up (not invested) in the A-Mount system. Basically, that just means I have a lot off cool gear to shoot with right now.

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-Nate

If this is how you feel you're kind of hanging around in/on the wrong forums aren't you ? This is a gear forum and as such folks will agonise about these things. I agree materialism like this can be crass but preaching morals to posters is equally obnoxious.

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