Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
amvrvd
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Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
11 months ago

Looking for new GX7 impressions on youtube I stumbled upon this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K6dCIlXGM

I don't want to make fun of the guy but gosh! I pity that poor panasonic representative, that lady has more patience than the Dalai Lama, I think I face-palmed a couple of times there, just akward as hell.

I wonder if this is a vivid representation of the common consumer's perception about mirrorless, is this the current state of affairs even after so many years ? are people really this clueless about mirrorless even today ? I mean, we on this forum are probably at the core of mirrorless knowledge, some come here everyday to consume and deliver knowledge about these cameras, but aren't we inside a bubble of sorts ? I'm getting the impression (and I know I'm not the only one) that rarely anyone outside these forums (or even the internet) knows a thing about mirrorless let alone m4/3. Pany and Oly have done wonders to advance this system, they've come up with amazing stuff over the years but they SERIOUSLY and URGENTLY need to invest in marketing. IMO M4/3 has the potential to replace DSLRs as the preferred choice for convenient everyday photography (and more!). Nowadays there are 3 kinds of consumers IMO:

- People who have no interest in photography itself but NEED a camera at hand for social interactions : smartphone crowd

- People who are interested in photography : here you have beginners and enthusiast and whatnot

- People who are invested in photography: These are working Pros

Trying to capture the smartphone crow will be difficult if not impossible, those people just don't want another device, they want an all-in-one experience so that's pretty much a lost cause as evidenced by the death of compacts. The second group is where m4/3 has the best chances of becoming the dominant format for most people, sure, this market is not composed of just one kind of consumer as there's not just one kind of photography genre/style but out of all the alternatives I think m4/3 is the most versatile and adaptable.

The thing is though, technological merits don't always guarantee direct success, Panoly need to get their act together and start an aggressive ad campaign if they want to counter-balance the ignorance displayed in the video. This is the time to act, I mean, even with instagram, facebook and the plethora of photo-sharing sites, are people actually interested in photography ? or are they just interested in photographs ? the whole market is sustained on top of consumer perceptions and those perceptions are changing as the does the consumer itself. Nowadays actual cameras are sold solely to people already interested in photography, gone are the days where people NEEEDED a camera to take and share photographs, they have phones now.

In this shrinking market can Pany and Oly enjoy the luxury of nonexistent marketing ? If they have to sell cameras to camera-people they need to act now before that crowd shrinks even further in the coming years. This is not another doomsday thread, far from it, I'm hopeful that m4/3 is here to stay, that's why I'm sticking to it, I'm convinced that mirrorless IS the future of photography BUT there's no denying that the market will shrink and the few people who will choose to get an actual camera in the future will need to have the alternatives presented to them through marketing, and in that regard m4/3 is really lacking.

What do you think, does m4/3 need more street-cred ?

agentul
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

amvrvd wrote:

I don't want to make fun of the guy but gosh! I pity that poor panasonic representative, that lady has more patience than the Dalai Lama, I think I face-palmed a couple of times there, just akward as hell.

I wonder if this is a vivid representation of the common consumer's perception about mirrorless, is this the current state of affairs even after so many years ? are people really this clueless about mirrorless even today ?

there are some people out there that are doing things they have no talent for. some are CEOs of huge companies, some are project managers, and this particular guy wants to be a reporter. he should really consider doing something else. he's clearly not conformable with what he's doing, doesn't seem to have an idea about what he wants to find out, and at times seems to try being provocative ("so is this the best camera in the world?"). everything comes out horribly awkward. but, hey, it's the internet, and everyone can play "TV star" on Youtube to an audience of less than 400 people.

that Panasonic representative just earned her Christmas bonus by not demonstrating how "solid" the GX7 is on the guy's head.

yes, Panasonic needs more marketing, and more presence in mainstream retail outlets (online included). they should give this lady a promotion, she clearly seems eager to sell cameras, unlike the current management (which probably want to just keep them for themselves).

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Florida Nature Photographer
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

amvrvd wrote:

I mean, we on this forum are probably at the core of mirrorless knowledge, some come here everyday to consume and deliver knowledge about these cameras, but aren't we inside a bubble of sorts ?

Prior to ordering my E-M1 I took a trip to my nearest local camera store to look at some lenses. I was assisted by the owner of the family run businsess. When I expressed my interest in m43 he said, and I quote... "I don't know anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it. It's dying. It never caught on."

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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to Florida Nature Photographer, 11 months ago

Marketing for m43 is a joke - I sincerely believe if it was marketed well (properly) it'd be a very popular format simply because of the size benefits.
What doesn't help much is the big DSLR type bodies, EM5 EM1 GH3, they should play on the size aspect, small and compact - retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks. Just look at the number of celebs who carry Leica's around their necks, no way they are using those because they like the leica look. This is partly the reason for the success behind the X100, I only saw a photo of david beckham last month with one.
The word 'micro' doesn't help either - it plays into the hands of the 'bigger is better' philosophy.

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ApertureAcolyte
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

amvrvd wrote:

Looking for new GX7 impressions on youtube I stumbled upon this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K6dCIlXGM

I don't want to make fun of the guy but gosh! I pity that poor panasonic representative, that lady has more patience than the Dalai Lama, I think I face-palmed a couple of times there, just akward as hell.

I wonder if this is a vivid representation of the common consumer's perception about mirrorless, is this the current state of affairs even after so many years ? are people really this clueless about mirrorless even today ? I mean, we on this forum are probably at the core of mirrorless knowledge, some come here everyday to consume and deliver knowledge about these cameras, but aren't we inside a bubble of sorts ? I'm getting the impression (and I know I'm not the only one) that rarely anyone outside these forums (or even the internet) knows a thing about mirrorless let alone m4/3. Pany and Oly have done wonders to advance this system, they've come up with amazing stuff over the years but they SERIOUSLY and URGENTLY need to invest in marketing. IMO M4/3 has the potential to replace DSLRs as the preferred choice for convenient everyday photography (and more!). Nowadays there are 3 kinds of consumers IMO:

- People who have no interest in photography itself but NEED a camera at hand for social interactions : smartphone crowd

- People who are interested in photography : here you have beginners and enthusiast and whatnot

- People who are invested in photography: These are working Pros

Trying to capture the smartphone crow will be difficult if not impossible, those people just don't want another device, they want an all-in-one experience so that's pretty much a lost cause as evidenced by the death of compacts. The second group is where m4/3 has the best chances of becoming the dominant format for most people, sure, this market is not composed of just one kind of consumer as there's not just one kind of photography genre/style but out of all the alternatives I think m4/3 is the most versatile and adaptable.

The thing is though, technological merits don't always guarantee direct success, Panoly need to get their act together and start an aggressive ad campaign if they want to counter-balance the ignorance displayed in the video. This is the time to act, I mean, even with instagram, facebook and the plethora of photo-sharing sites, are people actually interested in photography ? or are they just interested in photographs ? the whole market is sustained on top of consumer perceptions and those perceptions are changing as the does the consumer itself. Nowadays actual cameras are sold solely to people already interested in photography, gone are the days where people NEEEDED a camera to take and share photographs, they have phones now.

In this shrinking market can Pany and Oly enjoy the luxury of nonexistent marketing ? If they have to sell cameras to camera-people they need to act now before that crowd shrinks even further in the coming years. This is not another doomsday thread, far from it, I'm hopeful that m4/3 is here to stay, that's why I'm sticking to it, I'm convinced that mirrorless IS the future of photography BUT there's no denying that the market will shrink and the few people who will choose to get an actual camera in the future will need to have the alternatives presented to them through marketing, and in that regard m4/3 is really lacking.

What do you think, does m4/3 need more street-cred ?

Word of mouth will sell more Camera's than crap talking company reps. So it's up to enthusiasts to spread the word.

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ApertureAcolyte
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:

What doesn't help much is the big DSLR type bodies, EM5 EM1 GH3, they should play on the size aspect, small and compact -

The OMD's nowhere as big as GH3

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8484195084_a85f6b5465_c.jpg

Not a big dslr body on the EM5... AT ALL.

I don't think you understand... choice is GOOD.

Both Oly and Panasonic have the smaller series. By having both options they are hedging their bets.

retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks. Just look at the number of celebs who carry Leica's around their necks, no way they are using those because they like the leica look.

Hmm? It's the same thing with luxury watches, worn and used by complete wankers. Not dissing leica's but rather the people who use them as status symbols.

This is partly the reason for the success behind the X100, I only saw a photo of david beckham last month with one.
The word 'micro' doesn't help either - it plays into the hands of the 'bigger is better' philosophy.

I will happily avoid all association with moronic celebrities.

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s_grins
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

I can't understand what the reason of the post? Is it an anger related to youtube promotional?

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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to ApertureAcolyte, 11 months ago

ApertureAcolyte wrote:

stimpy wrote:

What doesn't help much is the big DSLR type bodies, EM5 EM1 GH3, they should play on the size aspect, small and compact -

The OMD's nowhere as big as GH3

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8484195084_a85f6b5465_c.jpg

Not a big dslr body on the EM5... AT ALL.

It is DSLR styled with the hump, and looks like an old retro SLR. It si also big compared to a GX1 for example, or a PEN.

I don't think you understand... choice is GOOD.

Or, "Jack of all trades, master of none". Spreading your wings wide in business isn't always good.

Both Oly and Panasonic have the smaller series. By having both options they are hedging their bets.

retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks. Just look at the number of celebs who carry Leica's around their necks, no way they are using those because they like the leica look.

Hmm? It's the same thing with luxury watches, worn and used by complete wankers. Not dissing leica's but rather the people who use them as status symbols.

This is partly the reason for the success behind the X100, I only saw a photo of david beckham last month with one.
The word 'micro' doesn't help either - it plays into the hands of the 'bigger is better' philosophy.

I will happily avoid all association with moronic celebrities.

You would, but you are not representative of an average consumer.

The point is that m43 isn't as successful as it should be.

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Bob Tullis
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In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago
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agentul
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:

they should play on the size aspect, small and compact - retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks.

well, maybe Olympus might attract some hipsters, but Panasonic won't. it's just "too mainstream", and not prestigious enough. after all, there are no vintage Panasonic film cameras. remember, the hipsters use iPhones, not Nokias, MacBooks, not Lenovo Thinkpads. now, if Leica were to re-badge the GX7, that would be a different story.

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AndyGM
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

amvrvd wrote:

I don't want to make fun of the guy but gosh!

Why not make fun of the guy, he's an ignoramus (and that's possibly the nicest way of putting it).

Never underestimate the ignorance, lack of knowledge and hairbrained assumptions of someone who has no interest in a subject. It is why marketing works...

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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to agentul, 11 months ago

agentul wrote:

stimpy wrote:

they should play on the size aspect, small and compact - retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks.

well, maybe Olympus might attract some hipsters, but Panasonic won't. it's just "too mainstream", and not prestigious enough. after all, there are no vintage Panasonic film cameras. remember, the hipsters use iPhones, not Nokias, MacBooks, not Lenovo Thinkpads. now, if Leica were to re-badge the GX7, that would be a different story.

Apple are already fast becoming the next Nokia / Microsoft, they are not really cool anymore, just incredibly mainstream (and successful) but that's for another topic.

But I get your point about Panasonic, who wants a camera from the same guys who made your microwave and the wife's hair dryer eh...

That is why you see Lumix on the front and not Panasonic - again just marketing.

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agentul
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:

But I get your point about Panasonic, who wants a camera from the same guys who made your microwave and the wife's hair dryer eh...

well, they also made those awesome Technics audio gear that was used back in the day, but you'd have to either be underground or have a deeper conversation than "give me money" with your parents to know that

also, you should have said "mom's hair dryer", i seriously doubt hipsters get married. they probably say that it's a sign of "mainstream gender roles and traditional Abrahamic society", or something along these lines.

That is why you see Lumix on the front and not Panasonic - again just marketing.

yes, i also figured that one out. i have a different view on branding - i prefer just Panasonic on my camera and Nokia on a phone (not that horrible "Lumia" name).

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DLBlack
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

The are generally speaking two group of users going into mft system.  The first group is the p&s and smartphone upgraders looking for improved iq.  For this group camera size is extremely important.  It is the first group that Olympus and Panasonic targeted with  Pen series and the GF and GX series of cameras.  The other group now being targeted is the advance dslr user looking for a little smallers camera without giving up the user controls of the dslr.  This group is being targed with the OMD series, the GH and G cameras.  For these cameras a slightly larger camera body is needed for space for the control buttons and handling with large lenses.

Itis really nice to see the mft system expand upward into the the semi-pro and pro level cameras, while still keeping the small cameras for those that need a small camera over user controls.

I for one was never interested in the Pen series of cameras, or the GF, GX or G cameras.  The E-M5 got me into the mft system but also found the camera a little too cramp with a lack of  direct control buttons.  I consisted the GH-3 for my second body, but now have the E-M1 on order.  I do enjoy the smaller size body of the OMD cameras when compared to comparible dslr cameras, and this does not mean entry level dslr cameras like the SL1.

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FrankS009
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

An intelligent, articulate, and very good natured Panasonic representative matched with a spacey, out to lunch interviewer. A wonderful contrast of almost comedic calibre. Loved it.

The only generalization that i might draw is that Panasonic has impressive people working for them who really like the GX7. That is good marketing.

F.

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Christian Grevstad
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to FrankS009, 11 months ago

I found it interesting that she claerly stated the GX7 has better DR than the GH3..

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amvrvd
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

Prior to ordering my E-M1 I took a trip to my nearest local camera store to look at some lenses. I was assisted by the owner of the family run businsess. When I expressed my interest in m43 he said, and I quote... "I don't know anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it. It's dying. It never caught on."

Wow, that's grim. On the other hand, salesmen have little incentive to introduce people to m4/3 when most of them are on Canon or nikon's payroll so that kind of comments are no surprise, I know I'm generalizing but with no ads and limited reach by enthusiasts word of mouth we're pretty much dependent on shelf space and salesmen, and without them it's no wonder no one ever bought m4/3 at his family run business, it's a chicken or the egg situation. A quick start is an internet wide campaign, first in gadget blogs and then elsewhere.

Marketing for m43 is a joke - I sincerely believe if it was marketed well (properly) it'd be a very popular format simply because of the size benefits.

indeed

What doesn't help much is the big DSLR type bodies, EM5 EM1 GH3, they should play on the size aspect, small and compact - retro like the GX7 will appeal to a huge market of hipsters who like taking photos and also wants something that looks good around their necks.

I have no sympathy for faux-DSLRs, they're a contradiction to the essence of mirrorless but on the other hand they play a very strategic and important role marketing-wise, without them you would have no means to attract the hordes of people brainwashed by the DSLR culture (¨DSLRs are Pro¨ ¨Bigger is better¨ etc...), faux-DSLRs also serve to maintain a healthy level of variety within the system, there's simply not ONE type of body that could please everyone, so even though I have no desire for a GH or OMD I have no right to deny that option to those who do desire them. As ApertureAcolyte said, choice is good, even for those that don't want or need such choices.

Word of mouth will sell more Camera's than crap talking company reps. So it's up to enthusiasts to spread the word.

I would agree, but so far, that hasn't been enough. We (and other mirrorless too) need more shelf space, more presence, more tv ads, more brochures, more bus stop ads, etc. Word of mouth can only reach so many people, mirrorless needs to get into people's subconscious as a viable replacement for DSLRs before this market shrinks even further.

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amvrvd
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Re: Reality check ? Is this what m4/3 is really up against ?
In reply to s_grins, 11 months ago

s_grins wrote:

I can't understand what the reason of the post? Is it an anger related to youtube promotional?

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Looking for equilibrium...

What anger ? How could I be angry at someone I don't know, if anything I feel pity, that poor man was way out of his comfort zone. There's no space for anger in this kind of situation, I just wanted to share a little slice of the reality that surrounds mirrorless and the factual ignorance of the common consumer, even after 5 years. That ¨journalist¨(?) is the perfect representative of how deep Pany and Oly's marketing have reached people's mind, how can I be angry at the victim of such failures, If anything I'm angry or rather disappointed at Pany & oly marketing departments.

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Bob Meyer
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In reply to amvrvd, 11 months ago

you'll find nearly unanimous agreement on this site, and other m43 forums, that Panasonic and Oly marketing, in the US at least, is about invisible as it can be.

Panasonic's circular argument must be "Well, m43 doesn't sell well in the U.S., so we shouldn't waste a lot of money trying to market it there...."

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agentul
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Re: I think....
In reply to Bob Meyer, 11 months ago

Bob Meyer wrote:

Panasonic's circular argument must be "Well, m43 doesn't sell well in the U.S., so we shouldn't waste a lot of money trying to market it there...."

have gold plated editions of every G camera and sell them in the arab countries (well, Dubai at the very least). they could take a "pokemon" approach and have a "collect them all", with all the different models popping up every few months.

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