Warning: A3000 emits a fake shutter sound that can't be disabled

Started Sep 23, 2013 | Discussions
parallaxproblem
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Re: Silence is a non-negotiable requirement in wildlife photography
In reply to Leandros S, Sep 24, 2013

Leandros S wrote:

Stating merely what should be obvious to everybody, which makes me wonder all the more why Sony would choose to exclude wildlife photography from the A3000's portfolio.

And in response to what others have said re: "anti-predatory" legislation - I don't think an SLR-style camera is particularly ideal for inconspicuously "looking" up girls' skirts. Again, just stating the obvious. I want to groan, but that might be taken the wrong way. Sad world.

I totally agree.  The link I posted was just for information and not suggesting any agreement or support for the principle

On a practical level, can you maybe disconnect the loud speaker or stick something over the top of it to quieten it?

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straylightrun
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to wcdennis, Sep 24, 2013

wcdennis wrote:

Diopter wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

OK Let's clear up a few things: There is no fake shutter sound on any of the NEX cameras.

Do you think this experiment is a confabulation? :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52069994

(-)

If you read this, he never says if his camera was quieter after cutting the speaker wire. Why even go to the trouble, since the mechanical part of the shutter is still going to make plenty of noise?

Because the physical shutter is loud enough as it is, and having the fake shutter sound on doubles the noise being made for no reason whatsoever. It also sounds very fake like those camera shutter sound effects you'll find on point and shoot cameras (and ironically they can be disabled in the menu).

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straylightrun
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Re: The reason why I find the fake shutter sound useful (and other comments)
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Sep 24, 2013

OpticsEngineer wrote:

The mechanical shutter in my A3000 makes about one-third of the noise as the simulated shutter. I appreciate having it so I know when the exposure begins.

The fake shutter sound saves me from making some bad shots. Like when I come indoors, take a shot, and notice a long time between start and end of exposure. I know right away I left the camera on ISO 100 and I fix it and get back to shooting.

Seeing as how the fake shutter is useful, and it is quieter than the mechanical one, a reasonable question is why can't it be disabled...

Wow, you're almost making it sound like a real 'feature'. I really can't wait until Sony puts artificial shutter slapping noises in the new NEX-6r, NEX-7n and FF NEX that can't be disabled! Maybe they could also make it that the bigger and more expensive model it is, the louder the sound gets?

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Dennis
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Re: Silence is a non-negotiable requirement in wildlife photography
In reply to Leandros S, Sep 24, 2013

Leandros S wrote:

Stating merely what should be obvious to everybody, which makes me wonder all the more why Sony would choose to exclude wildlife photography from the A3000's portfolio.

Because it's a $400 camera (lens included) built for a system whose longest lens is a 200/6.3.  Yeah, I know all about adapters, but Sony isn't designing a $400 camera for what you might do with an adapter when there are better options available.

And in response to what others have said re: "anti-predatory" legislation -

I'd never even heard of that until I read it in this thread.  Gotta love legislators and their kneejerk reactions and feel good solutions.

- Dennis

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GaryW
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Re: Do you really believe that???
In reply to DT200, Sep 25, 2013

DT200 wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

"The fake shutter sound saves me from making some bad shots. Like when I come indoors, take a shot, and notice a long time between start and end of exposure. I know right away I left the camera on ISO 100 and I fix it and get back to shooting.

Huh. I would think seeing "ISO100" in the LCD and EVF would be more important.

I can see where, for a beginner, it'd be helpful to know when the shot starts.  I've had that problem before....

Having said that, I prefer as little noise as possible.

Seeing as how the fake shutter is useful, and it is quieter than the mechanical one, a reasonable question is why can't it be disabled?

It is a generally accepted principal of user interface design that any feature or option that does not truly serve a purpose should be eliminated. Its presence adds clutter.

OMG that is is stretch. One line that says, "Silent Shutter" in the UI is not adding clutter, and is an option that so many here would find valuable. Your argument that the loud fake shutter sound is a "benefit" is summed up on a tee-shirt...

There are recent messages on this forum complaining about the menus having too many options.  I can see Sony looking at responses like that and concluding that items need to be removed from the menu.  This is my fear.....

To disable it, can you just put a sticker over the speaker hole or something?  How about gaffer's tape or something that won't leave a sticky goo?

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Pal2012
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Sonyshine, Sep 25, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

Correct. My Nikon V1 has a totally silent electronic shutter option that can operate at up to 30fps. It also has a mechanical shutter which is optional.

My Nex5n does the exact same thing, silent at 24, 30 and even 60fps.

-in video mode.

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Marty4650
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I actually enjoy that sound
In reply to straylightrun, Sep 25, 2013

I wish they would also create a fake "mirror slap" sound too.

I even miss the whirring of the electric winder when they added that feature to cameras in the 1980s.

Those silent modes have their place, at places like funerals, church services, and for stalking birds, but I like the old fashioned sound of mechanical parts slamming around.

I guess I am just old school.

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Greynerd
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Re: I actually enjoy that sound
In reply to Marty4650, Sep 25, 2013

You must be at the opposite end of the spectrum to those who post in a panic when they hear the tiniest sound coming out of the camera. Mainly compact forums.

Marty4650 wrote:

I wish they would also create a fake "mirror slap" sound too.

I even miss the whirring of the electric winder when they added that feature to cameras in the 1980s.

Those silent modes have their place, at places like funerals, church services, and for stalking birds, but I like the old fashioned sound of mechanical parts slamming around.

I guess I am just old school.

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captura
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Sonyshine, Sep 25, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

Correct. My Nikon V1 has a totally silent electronic shutter option that can operate at up to 30fps. It also has a mechanical shutter which is optional.

Correction; I am seeing up to 60 fps for an interim of 1/2 second.

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captura
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Pal2012, Sep 25, 2013

Pal2012 wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

Correct. My Nikon V1 has a totally silent electronic shutter option that can operate at up to 30fps. It also has a mechanical shutter which is optional.

My Nex5n does the exact same thing, silent at 24, 30 and even 60fps.

-in video mode.

Video mode. Only the Nikon 1 can do 30 or 60 fps in still camera mode, combined with continuous AF.

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captura
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Helen, Sep 25, 2013

Helen wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

captura wrote:

Diopter wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

OK Let's clear up a few things: There is no fake shutter sound on any of the NEX cameras.

Do you think this experiment is a confabulation? :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52069994

(-)

I've looked back on previous threads WRT fake-sounding first curtain shutter noise from the NEX-3N.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3401177#forum-post-51043730

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51041918

It is possible that the 3N (and presumably now the A3000, another cheap model) do not have a mechanical shutter at all.

Hence the false-sounding simulated shutter noise coming from the speaker.

No one has come up with a purely electronic still camera shutter, yet (it will be big news when they do). It has to be mechanical.

As another poster already pointed out, Nikon's 1 System has the option of completely silent operation on the V1 and V2 (which also have normal focal plane shutters which can be used as an option instead, with the usual - but actually rather subdued - sound). The Nikon 1 J and S models actually do not have mechanical shutters at all (though as they come out of the box, they play a sound file). Once that's disabled in the menu, they are silent. These are not yet true "global" electronic shutters, as they scan, but they don't have a physical shutter at all. That system's lenses have a rudimentary shutter mechanism but it is not used in exposure, just as a light-proofing measure when they are powered off.

Recent Panasonic models also have scanning electronic shutter options (silent) such as the GX7 - with limitations (no flash for example) but the limitations are getting less with each model release.

Oh, and the Pentax Q cameras use an in-lens leaf shutter which can be set to be disabled in "proper" lenses and a scanning electronic shutter used in its place (with a ridiculously slow flash sync speed as the main downside). This operation has to be used with their Toy lens series as those have no in-lens shutter.

This has been quite difficult to unearth but it now seems that the J1 model which you referenced above (and I just bought) does indeed have a mechanical shutter which can be disabled in the menu. Then the electronic shutter allows operation of up to 60 fps in still mode. And yes the silent mode can be engaged, it seems.

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Helen
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to captura, Sep 25, 2013

captura wrote:

Helen wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

captura wrote:

Diopter wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

OK Let's clear up a few things: There is no fake shutter sound on any of the NEX cameras.

Do you think this experiment is a confabulation? :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52069994

(-)

I've looked back on previous threads WRT fake-sounding first curtain shutter noise from the NEX-3N.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3401177#forum-post-51043730

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51041918

It is possible that the 3N (and presumably now the A3000, another cheap model) do not have a mechanical shutter at all.

Hence the false-sounding simulated shutter noise coming from the speaker.

No one has come up with a purely electronic still camera shutter, yet (it will be big news when they do). It has to be mechanical.

As another poster already pointed out, Nikon's 1 System has the option of completely silent operation on the V1 and V2 (which also have normal focal plane shutters which can be used as an option instead, with the usual - but actually rather subdued - sound). The Nikon 1 J and S models actually do not have mechanical shutters at all (though as they come out of the box, they play a sound file). Once that's disabled in the menu, they are silent. These are not yet true "global" electronic shutters, as they scan, but they don't have a physical shutter at all. That system's lenses have a rudimentary shutter mechanism but it is not used in exposure, just as a light-proofing measure when they are powered off.

Recent Panasonic models also have scanning electronic shutter options (silent) such as the GX7 - with limitations (no flash for example) but the limitations are getting less with each model release.

Oh, and the Pentax Q cameras use an in-lens leaf shutter which can be set to be disabled in "proper" lenses and a scanning electronic shutter used in its place (with a ridiculously slow flash sync speed as the main downside). This operation has to be used with their Toy lens series as those have no in-lens shutter.

This has been quite difficult to unearth but it now seems that the J1 model which you referenced above (and I just bought) does indeed have a mechanical shutter which can be disabled in the menu. Then the electronic shutter allows operation of up to 60 fps in still mode. And yes the silent mode can be engaged, it seems.

Weird as it may seem, the J1 doesn't have a mechanical shutter at all, I'm afraid (and there is no menu item for disabling it) - but all of what you say does apply to the V1.  It's purely a sound file that you can disable in the menu for the J1 (and J2, J3 and S1).  Another rather intriguing oddity of the J and S models is that they don't have the typical vibrating anti-dust filter on the sensor (the V1 and V2 however, do), but instead have a glass plate just inside the lens mount, which effectively blocks the ingress of dust and is far enough away from the sensor that any dust on it cannot show, even at small apertures.  Because this plate is not removable for cleaning, it's just as well there is no mechanical shutter as it would probably cause particles to end up on the inside of the glass plate via its movement.

I have a J1 and a V1 and have visually checked that I'm not misdescribing the (differing) characteristics of each one's design.  The exclusive use of a completely non-physical shuttering process in the J1/J2/J3/S1 line is why they have a top shutter speed of 1/16000 second but a slow (for these days) flash sync of 1/60.  This system gives the possibility of the incredibly fast burst shooting speeds that the 1 System cameras can achieve, with the slow flash sync being the cost (along with the occasional possibility of distortion on a fast-moving subject).   The V1 and V2 can work in exactly the same way, but also have the option to be switched to a conventional physical focal plane shutter, when they have a top speed of 1/4000 and a higher sync speed of 1/250 - and of course this makes the typical, non-cancellable shutter mechanism noise (though it is notably quieter than many).  Only the V models have this choice of shutter types.

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captura
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Helen, Sep 26, 2013

Helen wrote:

captura wrote:

Helen wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

captura wrote:

Diopter wrote:

wcdennis wrote:

OK Let's clear up a few things: There is no fake shutter sound on any of the NEX cameras.

Do you think this experiment is a confabulation? :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52069994

(-)

I've looked back on previous threads WRT fake-sounding first curtain shutter noise from the NEX-3N.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3401177#forum-post-51043730

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51041918

It is possible that the 3N (and presumably now the A3000, another cheap model) do not have a mechanical shutter at all.

Hence the false-sounding simulated shutter noise coming from the speaker.

No one has come up with a purely electronic still camera shutter, yet (it will be big news when they do). It has to be mechanical.

As another poster already pointed out, Nikon's 1 System has the option of completely silent operation on the V1 and V2 (which also have normal focal plane shutters which can be used as an option instead, with the usual - but actually rather subdued - sound). The Nikon 1 J and S models actually do not have mechanical shutters at all (though as they come out of the box, they play a sound file). Once that's disabled in the menu, they are silent. These are not yet true "global" electronic shutters, as they scan, but they don't have a physical shutter at all. That system's lenses have a rudimentary shutter mechanism but it is not used in exposure, just as a light-proofing measure when they are powered off.

Recent Panasonic models also have scanning electronic shutter options (silent) such as the GX7 - with limitations (no flash for example) but the limitations are getting less with each model release.

Oh, and the Pentax Q cameras use an in-lens leaf shutter which can be set to be disabled in "proper" lenses and a scanning electronic shutter used in its place (with a ridiculously slow flash sync speed as the main downside). This operation has to be used with their Toy lens series as those have no in-lens shutter.

This has been quite difficult to unearth but it now seems that the J1 model which you referenced above (and I just bought) does indeed have a mechanical shutter which can be disabled in the menu. Then the electronic shutter allows operation of up to 60 fps in still mode. And yes the silent mode can be engaged, it seems.

Weird as it may seem, the J1 doesn't have a mechanical shutter at all, I'm afraid (and there is no menu item for disabling it) - but all of what you say does apply to the V1. It's purely a sound file that you can disable in the menu for the J1 (and J2, J3 and S1). Another rather intriguing oddity of the J and S models is that they don't have the typical vibrating anti-dust filter on the sensor (the V1 and V2 however, do), but instead have a glass plate just inside the lens mount, which effectively blocks the ingress of dust and is far enough away from the sensor that any dust on it cannot show, even at small apertures. Because this plate is not removable for cleaning, it's just as well there is no mechanical shutter as it would probably cause particles to end up on the inside of the glass plate via its movement.

I have a J1 and a V1 and have visually checked that I'm not misdescribing the (differing) characteristics of each one's design. The exclusive use of a completely non-physical shuttering process in the J1/J2/J3/S1 line is why they have a top shutter speed of 1/16000 second but a slow (for these days) flash sync of 1/60. This system gives the possibility of the incredibly fast burst shooting speeds that the 1 System cameras can achieve, with the slow flash sync being the cost (along with the occasional possibility of distortion on a fast-moving subject). The V1 and V2 can work in exactly the same way, but also have the option to be switched to a conventional physical focal plane shutter, when they have a top speed of 1/4000 and a higher sync speed of 1/250 - and of course this makes the typical, non-cancellable shutter mechanism noise (though it is notably quieter than many). Only the V models have this choice of shutter types.

Wow! I jut looked at your Gear List! Do you ever sell anything?

Thanks for the information, Helen. The slow synch speed of the 1 J1 doesn't affect me as I have no plans to use it after dark. But I like the Nikon 1 and I think it's been under-rated.

I have a few of the same cameras as you; GF2, E-PL1, E-PM1, 5R, 1J1.

I quite like the E-PM-1 as a daytime camera. Same as the 1J1, turning off the NR conserves those megapixels. How do you like the E-PM-2?

Steve

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capt bob
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Re: Warning: A3000 emits a fake shutter sound that can't be disabled
In reply to straylightrun, Sep 26, 2013

I would Suspect if one was to immerse the 3000 into the Fishtank and pushed the shutter one would not hear a thing  , One of the features 350 bucks with Lens gets you. NBD

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Photoviewer
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Re: Warning: A3000 emits a fake shutter sound that can't be disabled
In reply to straylightrun, Sep 26, 2013

I like the sound from 3n. It is cool!

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Helen
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to captura, Sep 26, 2013

captura wrote:

Wow! I jut looked at your Gear List! Do you ever sell anything?

Yikes!  I stupidly hadn't realised that it resulted in a public gear list when I fiddled about in the camera hub!  Steps have been taken and it's now all deleted.  But yes, I do sell them, sometimes anyway.  What can I say?  I'm too interested in cameras for my own good...

Thanks for the information, Helen. The slow synch speed of the 1 J1 doesn't affect me as I have no plans to use it after dark. But I like the Nikon 1 and I think it's been under-rated.

Yes, they're quite good fun and their total silence (and speed) can be handy.

I have a few of the same cameras as you; GF2, E-PL1, E-PM1, 5R, 1J1.

I quite like the E-PM-1 as a daytime camera. Same as the 1J1, turning off the NR conserves those megapixels. How do you like the E-PM-2?

Steve

I rather like the E-PM2; the touchscreen really improves its operation.  (I've kept these replies brief since I suppose they're pretty off-topic for this forum!).

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DavieK
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to Helen, Sep 26, 2013

I read this thread with interest as I'm writing a review and had not noticed any of this. So, I pick up the camera to learn what I have missed. Answer: absolutely nothing. There is no fake shutter sound at all. The only sound at the start of an exposure is the aperture actuation (a very faint click) followed by complete silence for the exposure period, then a single firm click as the mechanical curtain ends the exposure; after this, there is a pause which for long exposures is extended for dark signal processing, during which the finder is blacked off; finally, a rather louder recocking action charges the shutter blind while uncovering the sensor and restoring live view. For normally shutter speeds, the two clicks necessarily involved occur in successon immediately after the image is captured.

The sound of the camera is basically the same as the electronic first curtain mode of the A77.

My A3000 also takes the images instantaneously, just as soon as the first faint click (aperture operation) is heard; everything which interrupts the view and makes noise happens after the image itself has been captured. It appears to restore its very crude live view (I don't like the EVF at all) faster than the NEX-7 or the A77.

The only setting I have disabled on the camera is that I have BEEP set to OFF, which I always do from the outset with every camera I use. But turning BEEP on doesn't alter the absence of any fake shutter sound because there isn't one.

David

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Koray
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to DavieK, Sep 27, 2013

Well done David, you are right and we are all wrong. You have convinced us and I can no more hear a fake sound. It is a real, genuine, mechanical "aperture" sound. Well done and thank you! Now we are looking forward to reading your super accurate review.

K.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to DavieK, Sep 27, 2013

Thanks for the very sensible evaluation.

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Helen
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Re: Sony, idea for FW update!
In reply to DavieK, Sep 27, 2013

DavieK wrote:

I read this thread with interest as I'm writing a review and had not noticed any of this. So, I pick up the camera to learn what I have missed. Answer: absolutely nothing. There is no fake shutter sound at all. The only sound at the start of an exposure is the aperture actuation (a very faint click) followed by complete silence for the exposure period, then a single firm click as the mechanical curtain ends the exposure; after this, there is a pause which for long exposures is extended for dark signal processing, during which the finder is blacked off; finally, a rather louder recocking action charges the shutter blind while uncovering the sensor and restoring live view. For normally shutter speeds, the two clicks necessarily involved occur in successon immediately after the image is captured.

Thank you for this extra information.  I too mentioned that it's just a fairly restrained click at the beginning of the exposure (if one selects a slow speed it's easier to hear it separately from the shutter activity at the end of the exposure); it does seem a little quieter on the A3000 than the NEX 3n, though the actual shutter sound of the A3000 is a bit louder than the 3n.

I'd differ on one point, though: that first click isn't aperture actuation, because it also is heard with no lens attached, and since the E mount has fully electronic communication with the lens (with no mechanical couplers for the aperture) there'll be nothing mechanical going on in the body that controls aperture actuation either.  So it's either a sound file or else part of the cocking mechanism sequence for the second (and only) shutter curtain, as when it occurs nothing is visible moving over the sensor.

I compared it with the NEX F3 also (since it has a shutter mechanism more comparable with these models than the 5R does, as the latter has a faster, sharper sound and cocking action due to its capability of much higher continuous shooting rates).  Interestingly, the F3 (set to electronic first curtain operation to match the only mode available on the A3000 and 3n) is totally silent at the start of the exposure.  No beep, click or whatever it is ... for whatever reason.

Since the A3000/3n mystery sound is pretty quiet and brief (particularly in comparison with the rest of the shutter activity's sound, which is unavoidable) I don't think should be considered too big a problem anyway.  Just an intriguing little mystery.

My A3000 also takes the images instantaneously, just as soon as the first faint click (aperture operation) is heard; everything which interrupts the view and makes noise happens after the image itself has been captured. It appears to restore its very crude live view (I don't like the EVF at all) faster than the NEX-7 or the A77.

Mine doesn't seem to have a particular delay either.  To my surprise, I didn't find the EVF as disappointing as I expected (it does at least seem to have reasonable quality eyepiece optics) whereas I think the LCD could do with at least twice as many dots (and it seems quite old-fashioned in some of its characteristics - I see a sort of fast shimmer from the backlight and the image will "go negative" if you are holding the camera above you due to the slightly restricted viewing angle - though the other three angles aren't affected).

The only setting I have disabled on the camera is that I have BEEP set to OFF, which I always do from the outset with every camera I use. But turning BEEP on doesn't alter the absence of any fake shutter sound because there isn't one.

Me too - I always switch the beep off straight away!

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