Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs

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coastcontact
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Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
11 months ago

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

My blog: http://coastcontact.wordpress.com/

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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

coastcontact wrote:

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

On this issue, both parties are guilty of not listening to what the military is saying. Neither party wants to be seen as soft on defense, nor seen as turning down money for their district. The contractors have spread out manufacturing over a number of states, so the legislators from those states continue to vote for funding.

The legislators like to say they listen to what the military says they need, but you and I know that's BS. Congress keeps over-riding the military when it comes to issues like this.

If Congress actually listened to the generals and admirals, the US could save money, or use that money to rebuilt crumbling infrastructure, which also creates job.

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mamallama
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Meanwhile the country's infrastructure is deterioating
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

We build weapon systems and planes we no longer need but our road, bridges and trains are falling apart. Go figure.

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René Schuster
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He's an AIPAC payed Zionist warmonger,
In reply to mamallama, 11 months ago

mamallama wrote:

We build weapon systems and planes we no longer need but our road, bridges and trains are falling apart. Go figure.

no wonder he would like to see more money going into the US military-industrial complex to buy weapons and planes, so you guys can fight more wars for the benefit of Israel.

Just have a look at his blog, easy to see his agenda.

RS

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boggis the cat
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But fewer jobs than any other government spending
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

coastcontact wrote:

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

No.

And if you wanted to create jobs for the many, instead of increasing profits that go to a very few, you would direct government expenditure into investment that is job-intensive, such as rebuilding infrastructure like roads and bridges.

Doing so would both broadly boost the economy (average Americans with well-paid jobs and money to spend will do so) and improve efficiency -- those new roads, bridges, rail lines, water and electricity reticulation systems, etc. are all investments that generate an economic return far above the initial investment over time.

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LeRentier
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

If those C-17 cargo planes are not being replaced by bigger and better, how will you continue to conquer the world ?
There just must be some replacement in the pipeline unless, miraculously, you would intend to become a peaceful country or decide to buy future bigger cargo planes from the Antonov line and finally recognize the Russian supremacy in that field ?

. . . _ _ _ . . .
veni vidi vomi

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Peg Legge
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

i believe the arms industry is one of the most subsidised industries in the world

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Peg Legge
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to LeRentier, 11 months ago

LeRentier wrote:

If those C-17 cargo planes are not being replaced by bigger and better, how will you continue to conquer the world ?
There just must be some replacement in the pipeline unless, miraculously, you would intend to become a peaceful country or decide to buy future bigger cargo planes from the Antonov line and finally recognize the Russian supremacy in that field ?

. . . _ _ _ . . .
veni vidi vomi

well the Antonovs are great aircraft, plus Airbus have started delivering the A400 so it's a quite competitive market

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Wheatfield
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to Peg Legge, 11 months ago

Peg Legge wrote:

i believe the arms industry is one of the most subsidised industries in the world

Considering that every piece of hardware, right down to the bullets amounts to a government subsidy, this is a pretty safe bet.

The American economy depends on war. It's why the American government spends so much time stirring the pot in various parts of the world. Destabilized regions fight with each other and need weapons, which the American industrial complex is happy to supply.

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coastcontact
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Re: He's an AIPAC payed Zionist warmonger,
In reply to René Schuster, 11 months ago

René Schuster wrote:

mamallama wrote:

We build weapon systems and planes we no longer need but our road, bridges and trains are falling apart. Go figure.

no wonder he would like to see more money going into the US military-industrial complex to buy weapons and planes, so you guys can fight more wars for the benefit of Israel.

Just have a look at his blog, easy to see his agenda.

RS

Gosh, do tell me. What is my agenda? Gun control, less money spent on war machines, more help for the less fortunate, a better educated and successful middle class. I am down right anti-American.

My blog: http://coastcontact.wordpress.com/

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28to70
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to Wheatfield, 11 months ago

Wheatfield wrote:

Peg Legge wrote:

i believe the arms industry is one of the most subsidised industries in the world

Considering that every piece of hardware, right down to the bullets amounts to a government subsidy, this is a pretty safe bet.

The American economy depends on war. It's why the American government spends so much time stirring the pot in various parts of the world. Destabilized regions fight with each other and need weapons, which the American industrial complex is happy to supply.

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Always remember, whenever you declare someone the dumbest person on Earth, someone else will stare at their screen intently, cross their arms and say ‘Challenge accepted’.

Yep, this is what Eisenhower warned us about.  When Rome extracted resources and slaves from other nations, it began to give its own citizens some benefits of those conquests. The problem is that whenever Rome conquered one nation, it found itself bordering another nation, and it got to the point where it overextended its own resources. This was an extractive Imperial Rome.  We on the other hand initially extract for a few elite in this country, in the form of arm manufacturers, and in the case of Iraq where we thought it would only cost 60 billion, ended up costing us trillions!  Remember they said we would make it up in Iraqi oil.  Well, it's costing us trillions!  And we peasants pay for that.  While the fat cats enjoy those benefits.

But now we are bankrupt, and I think the Chinese and Russians have enlightened Obama on the latter point.  Bankrupt nations don't invade other nations. Case in point, the former Soviet Union.  As a matter of fact, bankrupt nations begin to pull back, and try to resolve their own problems.  America will be eating humble pie.

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57even
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Not for much longer....
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

coastcontact wrote:

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

My blog: http://coastcontact.wordpress.com/

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Coastcontact

In 2013 the US accounted for around 40% of the whole world's military expenditure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

The US already has by far the world's largest military force. Far more (for instance) than it needs for defence, or even to conduct major operations in many countries at the same time.

Indeed the vast majority of it's high expenditure items are offensive in nature (bombers, carriers, etc). This for a country that has never been attacked directly. Even with Afghanistan, the total deployment of US military personnel abroad is only around 270,000 (mostly in friendly states in Asia, Europe and the Middle east) whereas home deployments account for over 1.2M personnel. The number on active service in Afghanistan is about 68,000 and dropping.

Arguably you have around 50% more hardware and men than you actually need to conduct current operations and make your country effectively impregnable.

And all this is funded by US tax payers. Yes, it creates jobs, and the technology it generates has had many useful spin-offs, but the point is that it is essentially non-productive expenditure at that level and even the exports of arms barely makes a dent in the numbers at around $8bn and even then most export markets require technology transfers and incentives so the real value is lower.

The USMIC grew out of lease lend in WW2 and prospered throughout the cold war. It arguably won the cold war by crippling the economies of the USSR and many other countries. But is it what you need to fight the kinds of action you now find yourself in?

It is also 2/3 of total Federal debt and more than your interest payments on the deficit.

For years the Pentagon has stated it has no immediate demand for more weapons or personnel, so defence contractors are searching for other means to support their income. This won't happen (see arms sales) so it appears that like it or not you WILL see a major cut in output from the USMIC. It already dropped substantially last year.

Only 1 plant is still capable of making more M1A1 tanks. The C17 plant is to be closed. No more F22s are likely to be built and the JSF will probably be scrapped as it is way over budget.

And as other have said, you could spend the money far more productively at home on civil projects. Even half of the budget (300bn) would allow for the regeneration of many failing cities or substantial infrastructure projects that would massively reduce business costs. It would also make a huge potential difference to education.

It is surprising that "lazy feckless unemployed scroungers" get blamed for high taxes when in fact the total unemployment budget is around $82bn and one may surmise that most of THEM would like a job they could do if they could get one.

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bikinchris
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No it is not
In reply to coastcontact, 11 months ago

Frankly, rebuilding the infrastructure that helped the US become so successful after WWII would be FAR More effective in producing jobs and helping the economy compared to military spending. Frankly NASA is much more efficient in producing jobs for each dollar than the US military.

Frankly, why not rebuild our roads and bridges, then build a high speed rail system from coast to coast and border to border? Link New York to Chicago and San Francisco and Miami to Houston to LA, along with some of the more minor cities along the way. That would encourage tourism.

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peevee1
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Re: No it is not
In reply to bikinchris, 11 months ago

bikinchris wrote:

Frankly, why not rebuild our roads and bridges, then build a high speed rail system from coast to coast and border to border? Link New York to Chicago and San Francisco and Miami to Houston to LA, along with some of the more minor cities along the way. That would encourage tourism.

That would discourage driving, reducing gasoline consumption, i.e. profits for the oil barons, including Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz al Saud, one of the owners of News Corp (Fox News, WSJ etc) and other major parts of US economy, and his friends/relatives.

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57even
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to LeRentier, 11 months ago

LeRentier wrote:

If those C-17 cargo planes are not being replaced by bigger and better, how will you continue to conquer the world ?
There just must be some replacement in the pipeline unless, miraculously, you would intend to become a peaceful country or decide to buy future bigger cargo planes from the Antonov line and finally recognize the Russian supremacy in that field ?

. . . _ _ _ . . .
veni vidi vomi

These aircraft have a design and service life of 30-40 years. The spare parts and service operations will continue for the duration. It's just full scale production that is winding down.

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drh681
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Re: He's an AIPAC payed Zionist warmonger,
In reply to René Schuster, 11 months ago

René Schuster wrote:

mamallama wrote:

We build weapon systems and planes we no longer need but our road, bridges and trains are falling apart. Go figure.

no wonder he would like to see more money going into the US military-industrial complex to buy weapons and planes, so you guys can fight more wars for the benefit of Israel.

Just have a look at his blog, easy to see his agenda.

RS

Thank you National Socialist Worker Bee.

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drh681
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Re: But fewer jobs than any other government spending
In reply to boggis the cat, 11 months ago

boggis the cat wrote:

coastcontact wrote:

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

No.

And if you wanted to create jobs for the many, instead of increasing profits that go to a very few, you would direct government expenditure into investment that is job-intensive, such as rebuilding infrastructure like roads and bridges.

Doing so would both broadly boost the economy (average Americans with well-paid jobs and money to spend will do so) and improve efficiency -- those new roads, bridges, rail lines, water and electricity reticulation systems, etc. are all investments that generate an economic return far above the initial investment over time.

Funny I was under the impression that such things were "Corporate Welfare". At least that is what Dave and some of you preach when discussing such in different terms.

Here's the problem with that...

It takes far fewer people to build a mile of road today, than it did in 1955.

Same with bridges or any other "high pay, low brain" work.

That is the price(and beauty) of progress.

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drh681
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to LeRentier, 11 months ago

LeRentier wrote:

If those C-17 cargo planes are not being replaced by bigger and better, how will you continue to conquer the world ?
There just must be some replacement in the pipeline unless, miraculously, you would intend to become a peaceful country or decide to buy future bigger cargo planes from the Antonov line and finally recognize the Russian supremacy in that field ?

Uh...

We'll get our proxies to do it.

Oh wait, that's what the EU has been doing since before it was the EU.

Pretty clever that, getting the US to keep your markets open.

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drh681
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Re: Military-Industrial Complex Equals Jobs
In reply to Wheatfield, 11 months ago

Wheatfield wrote:

Peg Legge wrote:

i believe the arms industry is one of the most subsidised industries in the world

Considering that every piece of hardware, right down to the bullets amounts to a government subsidy, this is a pretty safe bet.

The American economy depends on war.

Not really, it's only 4.7% of the GDP

Also, a fair portion of that is actually spent for other nations.

The German Government in particular is in no hurry for the US to depart its local bases.

It's why the American government spends so much time stirring the pot in various parts of the world. Destabilized regions fight with each other and need weapons, which the American industrial complex is happy to supply.

Yeah that's the plan. At least if you saw "Lord of War".

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Re: Not for much longer....
In reply to 57even, 11 months ago

57even wrote:

coastcontact wrote:

The 223rd and final C-17 cargo plane was delivered to the Air Force last week. The plane was manufactured at Boeing (the old Douglas Aircraft facility) in Long Beach, California. That’s the last airplane manufacturing facility in Southern California. The plant will be closed by 2015 and will result in the loss of 3,000 jobs.

Here is the problem. While Boeing cited sequestration, the Pentagon has made it clear for several years that it didn’t require more C-17s. However, lawmakers pushed through more orders to preserve jobs.

As reported in Businessweek, October 29, 2009, “Every year since 2006, the Pentagon has said that it has enough C-17s. And every year, Congress overrules the military and authorizes funds for additional planes. In October the Senate approved $2.5 billion in the 2010 budget for 10 more C-17s, which would bring the fleet to 215.”

The United States has created high paying jobs by ordering complex technology and other aerospace/biotech products from American companies. To a great extent the military-industrial complex has been the driver of jobs.

We give $1.3 billion of aid to Egypt in the form of military hardware. We even gave Russia $126 million in aid in 2010.

Is this the only way we can provide our citizens with good jobs?

My blog: http://coastcontact.wordpress.com/

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Coastcontact

In 2013 the US accounted for around 40% of the whole world's military expenditure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

The US already has by far the world's largest military force. Far more (for instance) than it needs for defence, or even to conduct major operations in many countries at the same time.

Indeed the vast majority of it's high expenditure items are offensive in nature (bombers, carriers, etc). This for a country that has never been attacked directly. Even with Afghanistan, the total deployment of US military personnel abroad is only around 270,000 (mostly in friendly states in Asia, Europe and the Middle east) whereas home deployments account for over 1.2M personnel. The number on active service in Afghanistan is about 68,000 and dropping.

Arguably you have around 50% more hardware and men than you actually need to conduct current operations and make your country effectively impregnable.

And all this is funded by US tax payers. Yes, it creates jobs, and the technology it generates has had many useful spin-offs, but the point is that it is essentially non-productive expenditure at that level and even the exports of arms barely makes a dent in the numbers at around $8bn and even then most export markets require technology transfers and incentives so the real value is lower.

The USMIC grew out of lease lend in WW2 and prospered throughout the cold war. It arguably won the cold war by crippling the economies of the USSR and many other countries. But is it what you need to fight the kinds of action you now find yourself in?

It is also 2/3 of total Federal debt and more than your interest payments on the deficit.

For years the Pentagon has stated it has no immediate demand for more weapons or personnel, so defence contractors are searching for other means to support their income. This won't happen (see arms sales) so it appears that like it or not you WILL see a major cut in output from the USMIC. It already dropped substantially last year.

Only 1 plant is still capable of making more M1A1 tanks. The C17 plant is to be closed. No more F22s are likely to be built and the JSF will probably be scrapped as it is way over budget.

And as other have said, you could spend the money far more productively at home on civil projects. Even half of the budget (300bn) would allow for the regeneration of many failing cities or substantial infrastructure projects that would massively reduce business costs. It would also make a huge potential difference to education.

It is surprising that "lazy feckless unemployed scroungers" get blamed for high taxes when in fact the total unemployment budget is around $82bn and one may surmise that most of THEM would like a job they could do if they could get one.

Draw Down.

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