D700 to D800, or D7100? Dog photography and NYC Street Photography. Weight/autofocus speed critical

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
vincentnyc
Senior MemberPosts: 2,440
Like?
D700 to D800, or D7100? Dog photography and NYC Street Photography. Weight/autofocus speed critical
10 months ago

Dear All:

Photography has been a lifelong hobby of mine - for decades. Over the last 15 years, my model has been a whippet (dog). Sadly, he passed away last year and, over the last 2 years or so, he was unable to walk much at all. During those 2 years, my interest in photography waned along with my dog's inability to walk. How many pictures of street candids could i take if he could only walk 100 feet?

It looks like I might get another whippet soon. With that in mind, my interest in photography has been rekindled. I have way too many cameras in my "photography drawers" and I'd like to sell them and consolidate a bit. my DSLR is the D700 with a myriad of lenses, both Nikons (80-200 f/2.8, etc.) as well as Tamrons/Sigmas. I also have a Fuji x10, a Canon S100, and a Sony RX100.

i'd like to sell the D700, the Fuji x10, and the Canon S100.

in lieu of my "big camera", the D700, i'm thinking of either going to the D800, D7100, or one of the new mirrorless cameras. my MAIN PET PEEVE is that i need rapid focusing speed since a young whippet is a very fast dog indeed!! i can't imagine that any of those intermediate sized cameras (mirrorless), no matter how modern (even a V2 Nikon), can focus nearly as quickly or be able to satisfy a pet photographer's needs (and in this case, "pet" as in a whippet, the fastest dogs). my guess is that it would require a D800/D7100 with a Nikon lens with one of those newer ultrasonic motors inside the lens to drive the focusing extra rapidly, i.e. the 80-200 f/2.8 VRII or similar, or, one of the higher spec'd Tamrons.

my other PET PEEVE is that the weight of the D700/D800 with a solid/great lens is truly heavy. downright uncomfortable for me. as an aging man, i simply cannot walk 30+ blocks with an energetic dog, and then back, with the weight of my former D700 + 80-200 f/2.8 around my neck anymore.

i'm wondering if y'all can think of any possibilities of me being pleased with anything but a D800? the only negatives of the D800 for me are:

- weight
- bulk
- focusing sensors all bunched up in the center part of the sensor, not as well distributed as the 5DMarkIII, which catapulted Canon from having slow focusing (5D and 5D Mark II) to one that is even faster than the D800!! what a jump and turnaround for Canon DSLRs! (plus the larger number of, and more distributed, auto focus sensors over the entire sensor)

HOWEVER, I've received this advice from some good folks:

why bother with going from the D700 to the D800 as a kneejerk reaction? it would actually make better sense to go from my D700 to a D7100 FOR MY 2 sets of needs (dog photography and nyc street photography). Reasons include:

- with the crop factor, my lenses can be shorter focal length which translates to lower weight! The newly announced 18-140mm, despite sounding like a kit lens and not too fast (f/3.5-5.6), has only stated "VR" (not VRII) and yet, the text announcing it claims 4 stops of VR stabilization, whereas the older 18-105mm VR claims only 3.5 stops of VR stabilization. maybe it's only talk, and i do NOT know what the differences between VR versus VRII is, as i've always thought of VRII as the "newer and superior version", but NO, the text claims 4 stops of benefit.

- D7100 is 1/3 pound lighter than the D800 body.

- D7100 has Multi-CAM 3500DX focusing module, versus D800's Multi-CAM 3500FX but exceedingly similar, yet, the D7100, again, is lighter weight. Same 51 auto focus points, as well as the same 15 cross-type points. BOTH the D800 and the D7100 use the EXPEED 3 processor.

- D7100's auto focus points are spread out more on its DX format and thus, would likely perform better on a running dog, especially in the TRACKING autofocus modes.

- Low light sensitivity appears to be rather similar at EV of -2 as the D800's low light sensitivity.

********

The suggestion of the D5200 due to its articulating LCD sounded good initially, as it would certainly be better for nyc street photography, being that one can shoot from the hip area with the LCD at 90 degrees, however, the Live View focusing is absolutely poor, so that essentially makes the D5200 a non-contender in this effort to find a 2-purpose camera (dog photography and street photography). Am i being overly harsh on the D5200?

********

Hence, in summary, i've been advised that i was rushing to the no-brainer idea of going from my current D700 to the D800, yet, upon further investigation, i discover the real "jewel" of the D7100 body, in that it is MOST suitable for these needs:

- lighter overall PACKAGE weight (body + lens) for dog and street photography.

- superior / class-leading autofocus in that both have the top-of-the-line Multi-CAM 3500 DX/FX 51-point (15 cross-type) focusing; and both have the EXPEED 3 processor. (only exception here being that the Canon 5D Mark III appears to be even better in its new autofocus capabilities as per dpreview's 5D Mark III review - very impressive indeed).

Considering that I'm interested in refreshing all my equipment, including all my lenses which need refreshing (virtually all of them in order to get the latest generation with the fastest autofocus motors SWM and the most current VR 'gold VR lettering' w/4 stops), it almost doesn't matter if i went D7100 or the 5D Mark III, other than the fact that i've thus far been a lifelong Nikon SLR/DSLR user, but i'm not stuck on that fact.

Am I looking at this correctly? i.e. don't be blinded by going from the D700 automatically to the D800, and really see the benefits, FOR ME and MY USES, the D7100?

hopefully, i'll be educated here by the good folks here to some lighter camera & lens (total weight) that may satisfy my needs with industry-leading autofocus speed.

many thanks in advance. sorry for such a verbose post.

camerosity
Regular MemberPosts: 328Gear list
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

D7100 image quality a big step down from D700 in my opinion. Why not just get the D800 and love it?? I'll never part with my D700. I love the image quality and don't feel I need to shoot 36 mega pixel images all day long. My D700 still has less than 20k shutter clicks on it so it should last many more years. I shot with a D300 for a couple years before getting my D700 and the D300 isn't nearly as good as the D700 at ISO 400 and above. Even at ISO 200 the D300 has noise in the shadows that the D700 just doesn't have at all. So my advice is buy the D800 and love it!

 camerosity's gear list:camerosity's gear list
Nikon Coolpix A Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D800
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ernie Misner
Senior MemberPosts: 1,705Gear list
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to camerosity, 10 months ago

I went from the D200 to the D700 to the D800.   The D800 is the logical replacement for the D700 unless you plan on doing a lot of telephoto work but apparently dogs and street shooting would not need the smaller sensor so much.   I did not notice the weight being any different from my D700.   Right off the bat it feels like an old friend..... but wait until you start reviewing the images on that D800!   I don't know why I waited so long.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lazy lightning
Regular MemberPosts: 174
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

Keep your D700 and get some lighter lenses. Maybe try the 70-300 VR instead of your 80-200. I'm sure you are not trying to get photos of your dog running around in the dark.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tomnorth
Regular MemberPosts: 349Gear list
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to lazy lightning, 10 months ago

I agree completely. The only reason given gets getting rid of your D700 is weight. The D800 does nothing for you on that count. The D700 has excellent AF performance. If you got lighter lenses that could help a lot in the weight department. I got the 28-300 Nikon lens for travel photography just for that reason. That one lens shaved pounds off my bag weight. For our purposes, perhaps the 24-120 f/4 Nikon lens would be a good fit.

 tomnorth's gear list:tomnorth's gear list
Nikon D700 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TOF guy
TOF guy MOD
Forum ProPosts: 10,574Gear list
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

The D7100 has very good image quality very similar to a D800. The D800 has a high ISO advantage, but it is not relevant to your case.

Regarding AF: the AF points on any FF camera will be bunched in the middle of the viewfinder. The area covered by the sensors in the 5d3 and d800 are the same. The density is a little higher on the 5d3 (it has more points). The message to take home: if having AF points more widely spread across the viewfinder is important then the choice is DX, not FX camera unless focusing with liveview is an acceptable alternative (and in your case it is not).

You have clearly come to the best solution for your needs. The D7100 is the Nikon offering which fits the bill best. It would be a Canon 60D on the Canon side (and not a 5d3). A D300 successor "D400" would be even better, but it isn't going to happen.

-- hide signature --

Thierry - posted as regular forum member

 TOF guy's gear list:TOF guy's gear list
Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Skiies
Regular MemberPosts: 153
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to TOF guy, 10 months ago

I use my 7100 for DotR (dogs on the run) but it really does struggle to keep focus when the animal is charging towards you. Don't get me wrong, the 7100 has a brilliant AF but it is asking an awful lot to focus and track fast moving dogs. I would guess that the D700 is a good as 7100 certainly no worse. If it were me I would stick with FF and consider D800 budget allowing.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
vincentnyc
Senior MemberPosts: 2,440
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to Skiies, 10 months ago

Skiies wrote:

I use my 7100 for DotR (dogs on the run) but it really does struggle to keep focus when the animal is charging towards you. Don't get me wrong, the 7100 has a brilliant AF but it is asking an awful lot to focus and track fast moving dogs. I would guess that the D700 is a good as 7100 certainly no worse. If it were me I would stick with FF and consider D800 budget allowing.

TOF wrote:  "The D7100 has very good image quality very similar to a D800. The D800 has a high ISO advantage, but it is not relevant to your case.

Regarding AF: the AF points on any FF camera will be bunched in the middle of the viewfinder. The area covered by the sensors in the 5d3 and d800 are the same. The density is a little higher on the 5d3 (it has more points). The message to take home: if having AF points more widely spread across the viewfinder is important then the choice is DX, not FX camera unless focusing with liveview is an acceptable alternative (and in your case it is not).

You have clearly come to the best solution for your needs. The D7100 is the Nikon offering which fits the bill best. It would be a Canon 60D on the Canon side (and not a 5d3). A D300 successor "D400" would be even better, but it isn't going to happen."

********

Hi Skiies and TOF, and thanks to both of you, et al, for your comments.

@Skiies: even though the news is not good re: the 7100 struggling to focus on your dog running, it is reality and your empirical observation, so it is valuable. I do not follow, however, your conclusion that you'd suggest a D800 due to superior autofocus. Reason: the 7100 and the D800 share an extremely similar Multi-CAM 3500DX (D7100)/FX (D800) autofocus module, with the same 51 points and the same 15 cross-type sensors.  Furthermore, they both use the same EXPEED 3 processor.  Thus, the D800 does not offer superior autofocus capabilities from that of the D7100 - which was the gist of your comment.  I say this respectfully, and with thanks for your post.   [As an aside, your point that the D700 is as good as the D7100:  D700's processor is the EXPEED (D7100: EXPEED 3),  D7100's autofocus works with slightly less light at a very good EV -2.]

@TOF:  thank you sir for your tremendously knowledgeable and concise advice!  I understand completely your excellent point vis-a-vis the bunching up of AF points of any FF -- i didn't explain myself thoroughly enough.  (my initial post was so long already!     May i ask why you feel that the "D400" isn't going to happen?   was there some type of announcement that essentially said that?  I'd be grateful to know.   My time frame is either buying the new body now (i.e. over the next several weeks), or, buy it prior to the end of Nov 2013.   My dog is expected to arrive in January, and i'm taking a 5-week trip from the end of Nov till early Jan.   As a result, i'm not in an immediate rush to buy it, but i won't want to wait till next summer to get it since i'll have my youthful dog in January already.   My joy with my dog of 15 years (he passed away Oct 2012) was indescribable, including my joy in taking pictures of him - he could have cared less and might even have been annoyed at the focus assist light shining on him often  

Again, thanks to your (plural) good natured, knowledgeable comments/advice.   Kindly keep them coming!

********

Also:  as it looks more and more like the D7100 might fit my weight and autofocus speed requirements best (including its crop factor being a benefit vis-a-vis weight of lenses),  i'm thinking that a thorough lens refresh might be good for me too, as my lenses are a number of years old already as well (D700 vintage).  clearly some are keepers!  others have been improved, i.e. with VR added, or a myriad of other improvements.    Nonetheless, i can't help but really want a REALLY VERSATILE WALKAROUND full range zoom that will also work well at the dog run, such as the new 18-140 f/3.5-5.6 VR just announced.   It looks and sounds so much like a kit lens that i'm afraid that it won't perform well in terms of autofocus speed as the higher end Nikon lenses (or even higher end Tamrons!) even though it has SWM which typically speaks reasonably well for fast focusing, plus it is not that bright at all in that it is merely 5.6 at the 140 end.   In terms of focal length, it is very versatile for me as a walkaround lens since it is effectively 27-210mm on the D7100.  It does "claim" 4 stops VR effectiveness.  My query is that why would Nikon bother introducing this lens at all if it doesn't offer MORE than their own 18-200 VRII and 18-300 VR?  ALL 3 zooms have SWM, no nano coating!   There must be some reason for them to offer this new 18-140mm, right?  Unless it is offered as a "budget" piece with crippled performance in order to boost their sales of their 18-200 VRII?    it really seems as though even though the new 18-140 says "VR" only and not "VRII", that their text claiming 4 stops of benefit essentially says that the 18-140 has the "newer VR, equivalent of VRII", right?

Confused.    Would you guys think the 18-140 will be a superior performing, fast focusing lens?  or is it merely a low budget piece aiming for the regular travel vacation photographer?  Thanks!

PS:   may i ask why the option to choose different colors for our comments here is no longer available?    i recall that i was able to choose different colors in the past.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Daniel Bliss
Senior MemberPosts: 1,671
Like?
Play to the strengths of whatever body you choose
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

If you're going to switch cameras you need to play to the strengths of whatever body you get.  The D800 is only about four or five ounces lighter than the D700, but it has better than a full f-stop advantage on noise for enlargements of a given print size, so use that to get a lighter and smaller lens that still performs well for street photography, such as the 24-85 VR, as there's enough overhead on the files to avoid having to use f2.8 or more.  If you decide to shave serious weight on the body with the D7100, again, go for a lens that really shows DX at its best such as the 17-55/2.8 — or, so long as you don't mind a bit of vignetting correction and a less tough build, Sigma's 17-50/2.8 and save even more weight.

Should you stay with the D700, I'd still at least consider a smaller, variable aperture zoom like that 24-85.  Personally, from what you're talking about, I'd say it's a close call between the D800 and D7100 packages I've outlined.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sgoldswo
Senior MemberPosts: 3,403Gear list
Like?
D600 or Oly M43s or light primes
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

Vincent - I'm going to suggest you try either an Olympus M43s camera or a D600. They sound a better fit for you. The Oly will do single shot AF a bit quicker than your D700. The D600 is lighter and more compact while still giving you FF output - I actually prefer the D600 output to the D800E in most conditions (only at base Iso is the D800E my preference).

Alternatively try buying the 28/50/85 F1.8G primes to replace your zooms. They will be far superior for street shooting in any event. Another suggestion would be the 20/28/40 voigtlander pancakes but these are manual focus (not an issue if you zone focus, but some may not like it).

Observations in the text below.

vincentnyc wrote:

Dear All:

Photography has been a lifelong hobby of mine - for decades. Over the last 15 years, my model has been a whippet (dog). Sadly, he passed away last year and, over the last 2 years or so, he was unable to walk much at all. During those 2 years, my interest in photography waned along with my dog's inability to walk. How many pictures of street candids could i take if he could only walk 100 feet?

It looks like I might get another whippet soon. With that in mind, my interest in photography has been rekindled. I have way too many cameras in my "photography drawers" and I'd like to sell them and consolidate a bit. my DSLR is the D700 with a myriad of lenses, both Nikons (80-200 f/2.8, etc.) as well as Tamrons/Sigmas. I also have a Fuji x10, a Canon S100, and a Sony RX100.

i'd like to sell the D700, the Fuji x10, and the Canon S100.

in lieu of my "big camera", the D700, i'm thinking of either going to the D800, D7100, or one of the new mirrorless cameras. my MAIN PET PEEVE is that i need rapid focusing speed since a young whippet is a very fast dog indeed!! i can't imagine that any of those intermediate sized cameras (mirrorless), no matter how modern (even a V2 Nikon), can focus nearly as quickly or be able to satisfy a pet photographer's needs (and in this case, "pet" as in a whippet, the fastest dogs). my guess is that it would require a D800/D7100 with a Nikon lens with one of those newer ultrasonic motors inside the lens to drive the focusing extra rapidly, i.e. the 80-200 f/2.8 VRII or similar, or, one of the higher spec'd Tamrons.

The Oly and Panny mirrorless do single shot AF faster than DSLRs - try one if you don't believe me. I suspect it might be worth you trying an E-M1 - very similar to the E-M5, but with PDAF for continuous AF too.

my other PET PEEVE is that the weight of the D700/D800 with a solid/great lens is truly heavy. downright uncomfortable for me. as an aging man, i simply cannot walk 30+ blocks with an energetic dog, and then back, with the weight of my former D700 + 80-200 f/2.8 around my neck anymore.

I know what you mean. Personally I find the D600 a superior camera from that point of view, particularly mounted with smaller, lighter prime lenses. Alternatively I fine my M43s or Fuji X camera are very much "carry all day" cameras.

i'm wondering if y'all can think of any possibilities of me being pleased with anything but a D800? the only negatives of the D800 for me are:

- weight
- bulk
- focusing sensors all bunched up in the center part of the sensor, not as well distributed as the 5DMarkIII, which catapulted Canon from having slow focusing (5D and 5D Mark II) to one that is even faster than the D800!! what a jump and turnaround for Canon DSLRs! (plus the larger number of, and more distributed, auto focus sensors over the entire sensor)

HOWEVER, I've received this advice from some good folks:

why bother with going from the D700 to the D800 as a kneejerk reaction? it would actually make better sense to go from my D700 to a D7100 FOR MY 2 sets of needs (dog photography and nyc street photography). Reasons include:

- with the crop factor, my lenses can be shorter focal length which translates to lower weight! The newly announced 18-140mm, despite sounding like a kit lens and not too fast (f/3.5-5.6), has only stated "VR" (not VRII) and yet, the text announcing it claims 4 stops of VR stabilization, whereas the older 18-105mm VR claims only 3.5 stops of VR stabilization. maybe it's only talk, and i do NOT know what the differences between VR versus VRII is, as i've always thought of VRII as the "newer and superior version", but NO, the text claims 4 stops of benefit.

I don't think this is good advice unless you are using lenses designed for DX. Short focal length lenses can be equally as large as longer focal lengths, depending on what you get.

- D7100 is 1/3 pound lighter than the D800 body.

- D7100 has Multi-CAM 3500DX focusing module, versus D800's Multi-CAM 3500FX but exceedingly similar, yet, the D7100, again, is lighter weight. Same 51 auto focus points, as well as the same 15 cross-type points. BOTH the D800 and the D7100 use the EXPEED 3 processor.

- D7100's auto focus points are spread out more on its DX format and thus, would likely perform better on a running dog, especially in the TRACKING autofocus modes.

- Low light sensitivity appears to be rather similar at EV of -2 as the D800's low light sensitivity.

All I'm going to observe here is that I get far more confident performance from the AF in the D600 than I get from my D800E, despite fewer points (frankly I only ever use single point most of the time anyway).

********

The suggestion of the D5200 due to its articulating LCD sounded good initially, as it would certainly be better for nyc street photography, being that one can shoot from the hip area with the LCD at 90 degrees, however, the Live View focusing is absolutely poor, so that essentially makes the D5200 a non-contender in this effort to find a 2-purpose camera (dog photography and street photography). Am i being overly harsh on the D5200?

********

Hence, in summary, i've been advised that i was rushing to the no-brainer idea of going from my current D700 to the D800, yet, upon further investigation, i discover the real "jewel" of the D7100 body, in that it is MOST suitable for these needs:

- lighter overall PACKAGE weight (body + lens) for dog and street photography.

- superior / class-leading autofocus in that both have the top-of-the-line Multi-CAM 3500 DX/FX 51-point (15 cross-type) focusing; and both have the EXPEED 3 processor. (only exception here being that the Canon 5D Mark III appears to be even better in its new autofocus capabilities as per dpreview's 5D Mark III review - very impressive indeed).

Considering that I'm interested in refreshing all my equipment, including all my lenses which need refreshing (virtually all of them in order to get the latest generation with the fastest autofocus motors SWM and the most current VR 'gold VR lettering' w/4 stops), it almost doesn't matter if i went D7100 or the 5D Mark III, other than the fact that i've thus far been a lifelong Nikon SLR/DSLR user, but i'm not stuck on that fact.

The killer for me would be the 5D mkIII sensor, which is significantly outperformed by the D600, let alone the D800/E.

Am I looking at this correctly? i.e. don't be blinded by going from the D700 automatically to the D800, and really see the benefits, FOR ME and MY USES, the D7100?

hopefully, i'll be educated here by the good folks here to some lighter camera & lens (total weight) that may satisfy my needs with industry-leading autofocus speed.

many thanks in advance. sorry for such a verbose post.

I hope all of that helps.

 sgoldswo's gear list:sgoldswo's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Olympus E-M1 Nikon Df Nikon D810
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Matyszyk
Junior MemberPosts: 36
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100? Weight/autofocus speed critical
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

Vincent - I shoot Nikon D800 and 28-300 walking around lens. I have other lenses also. What you may wish to try is a cross body strap for your camera which ever one you decide on. I have a bulged disc in my neck and the cross body strap - I use BlackRapid - takes all of the pressure off my neck. I don't even notice my D800 as I wear it on my right hip on my back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Q1IxI_Opw

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TOF guy
TOF guy MOD
Forum ProPosts: 10,574Gear list
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

the "D400" isn't going to happen? was there some type of announcement that essentially said that?

No announcement. But a number of facts make a "D400" very unlikely at least in the near future. First a DX camera at a similar price point than the FF D600 would see part of its sales cannibalized by the D600. A high end DX camera does not have a very high sales volume, and in this case it would be a "niche" camera. Nikon has make a statement that it want to put more emphasis in the low end. Which is also where the high volume is in terms of sales. Add to all of this that if Nikon had the intent of selling a D400 it would be out by now. All in all it seems likely that the D300 is the latest of its kind (unfortunately :-()

My query is that why would Nikon bother introducing this new 18-140 f/3.5-5.6 VR lens at all if it doesn't offer MORE than their own 18-200 VRII and 18-300 VR?

Jack of all trades master of none. The more the zoom range is, the most compromises the manufacturer must make on optical results to keep the price within reasonable range. Typically lens with very wide magnification range are not fast lens. They are optically a notch below their counterparts with smaller zoom range (see this comparison of 18-200 vs. 18-300 for instance), etc. In this specific case though (18-140 vs. 18-200 vs. 18-300) the price is also a key differentiator ($600 vs. about $1,000 for the others list price), note that we don't know about how good optically the 18-140 may be since it is not out yet. Also the lens with the smallest range is lighter.

the new 18-140 says "VR" only and not "VRII", that their text claiming 4 stops of benefit essentially says that the 18-140 has the "newer VR, equivalent of VRII", right?

VR I was about 3 stops. VR II 4. so it seems that the 18--140 has the 4 stop capable VR, which would be last generation.

Nikon USA's web site has another inconsistency with the 18-140 (pathetic that they let that kind of stuff slip in, if you ask me). Its max aperture under tech specs is correctly listed as 3.5-6.5. But the 18-200 or 18-300 are listed as 3.5 (again, under the "tech specs" tab). They should all be listed as 3.5-5.6. If you ask for a comparison the 3.5 number gets displayed for the 2 more expensive lens while 3.5-5.6 is shown for the cheaper lens. This may let a prospective buyer that there is a difference regarding max aperture at the tele end between them, but there aren't any. However the 18-300 may have a small advantage: at 140 mm the lens is still far from its tele end and the max aperture may be a little better than 5.6, while the 18-140 will definitely be at 5.6. I don't have these lens and cannot tell you exactly what the difference will be if any.

Confused. Would you guys think the 18-140 will be a superior performing, fast focusing lens? or is it merely a low budget piece aiming for the regular travel vacation photographer? Thanks!

Based on past history, I'd expect the 18-140 to be optically very similar, maybe a small tad better than the others just because there is less of a do-it-all in zoom range. This even though it does not have as many ED / aspherical lens than the others. It should be then a very decent consumer grade lens, lighter and cheaper than it's bigger brothers but you loose some versatility in zoom range.

-- hide signature --

Thierry - posted as regular forum member

 TOF guy's gear list:TOF guy's gear list
Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Josh152
Senior MemberPosts: 1,080
Like?
Re: D700 to D800, or D7100?
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

The number after the VR does not indicate the VR version it indicates the lens version.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PerL
Forum ProPosts: 12,456
Like?
Lens is probably key
In reply to vincentnyc, 10 months ago

vincentnyc wrote:

Dear All:

Photography has been a lifelong hobby of mine - for decades. Over the last 15 years, my model has been a whippet (dog). Sadly, he passed away last year and, over the last 2 years or so, he was unable to walk much at all. During those 2 years, my interest in photography waned along with my dog's inability to walk. How many pictures of street candids could i take if he could only walk 100 feet?

It looks like I might get another whippet soon. With that in mind, my interest in photography has been rekindled. I have way too many cameras in my "photography drawers" and I'd like to sell them and consolidate a bit. my DSLR is the D700 with a myriad of lenses, both Nikons (80-200 f/2.8, etc.) as well as Tamrons/Sigmas. I also have a Fuji x10, a Canon S100, and a Sony RX100.

i'd like to sell the D700, the Fuji x10, and the Canon S100.

in lieu of my "big camera", the D700, i'm thinking of either going to the D800, D7100, or one of the new mirrorless cameras. my MAIN PET PEEVE is that i need rapid focusing speed since a young whippet is a very fast dog indeed!! i can't imagine that any of those intermediate sized cameras (mirrorless), no matter how modern (even a V2 Nikon), can focus nearly as quickly or be able to satisfy a pet photographer's needs (and in this case, "pet" as in a whippet, the fastest dogs). my guess is that it would require a D800/D7100 with a Nikon lens with one of those newer ultrasonic motors inside the lens to drive the focusing extra rapidly, i.e. the 80-200 f/2.8 VRII or similar, or, one of the higher spec'd Tamrons.

my other PET PEEVE is that the weight of the D700/D800 with a solid/great lens is truly heavy. downright uncomfortable for me. as an aging man, i simply cannot walk 30+ blocks with an energetic dog, and then back, with the weight of my former D700 + 80-200 f/2.8 around my neck anymore.

i'm wondering if y'all can think of any possibilities of me being pleased with anything but a D800? the only negatives of the D800 for me are:

- weight
- bulk
- focusing sensors all bunched up in the center part of the sensor, not as well distributed as the 5DMarkIII, which catapulted Canon from having slow focusing (5D and 5D Mark II) to one that is even faster than the D800!! what a jump and turnaround for Canon DSLRs! (plus the larger number of, and more distributed, auto focus sensors over the entire sensor)

HOWEVER, I've received this advice from some good folks:

why bother with going from the D700 to the D800 as a kneejerk reaction? it would actually make better sense to go from my D700 to a D7100 FOR MY 2 sets of needs (dog photography and nyc street photography). Reasons include:

- with the crop factor, my lenses can be shorter focal length which translates to lower weight! The newly announced 18-140mm, despite sounding like a kit lens and not too fast (f/3.5-5.6), has only stated "VR" (not VRII) and yet, the text announcing it claims 4 stops of VR stabilization, whereas the older 18-105mm VR claims only 3.5 stops of VR stabilization. maybe it's only talk, and i do NOT know what the differences between VR versus VRII is, as i've always thought of VRII as the "newer and superior version", but NO, the text claims 4 stops of benefit.

- D7100 is 1/3 pound lighter than the D800 body.

- D7100 has Multi-CAM 3500DX focusing module, versus D800's Multi-CAM 3500FX but exceedingly similar, yet, the D7100, again, is lighter weight. Same 51 auto focus points, as well as the same 15 cross-type points. BOTH the D800 and the D7100 use the EXPEED 3 processor.

- D7100's auto focus points are spread out more on its DX format and thus, would likely perform better on a running dog, especially in the TRACKING autofocus modes.

- Low light sensitivity appears to be rather similar at EV of -2 as the D800's low light sensitivity.

********

The suggestion of the D5200 due to its articulating LCD sounded good initially, as it would certainly be better for nyc street photography, being that one can shoot from the hip area with the LCD at 90 degrees, however, the Live View focusing is absolutely poor, so that essentially makes the D5200 a non-contender in this effort to find a 2-purpose camera (dog photography and street photography). Am i being overly harsh on the D5200?

********

Hence, in summary, i've been advised that i was rushing to the no-brainer idea of going from my current D700 to the D800, yet, upon further investigation, i discover the real "jewel" of the D7100 body, in that it is MOST suitable for these needs:

- lighter overall PACKAGE weight (body + lens) for dog and street photography.

- superior / class-leading autofocus in that both have the top-of-the-line Multi-CAM 3500 DX/FX 51-point (15 cross-type) focusing; and both have the EXPEED 3 processor. (only exception here being that the Canon 5D Mark III appears to be even better in its new autofocus capabilities as per dpreview's 5D Mark III review - very impressive indeed).

Considering that I'm interested in refreshing all my equipment, including all my lenses which need refreshing (virtually all of them in order to get the latest generation with the fastest autofocus motors SWM and the most current VR 'gold VR lettering' w/4 stops), it almost doesn't matter if i went D7100 or the 5D Mark III, other than the fact that i've thus far been a lifelong Nikon SLR/DSLR user, but i'm not stuck on that fact.

Am I looking at this correctly? i.e. don't be blinded by going from the D700 automatically to the D800, and really see the benefits, FOR ME and MY USES, the D7100?

hopefully, i'll be educated here by the good folks here to some lighter camera & lens (total weight) that may satisfy my needs with industry-leading autofocus speed.

many thanks in advance. sorry for such a verbose post.

A Nikon D300S with the 51 pt AF have a good keeper rate for dog photos paired with a fast focusing 70-200 2.8 VR AF-S. The D7100 should be at least as good, but I am unsure if a kit lens like the new 18-140 focus as fast. Maybe one solution for a lighter load would be a D7100 with the new 70-200 F4 lens? (Although I have never tested its AF-speed, but it is promoted as a lighter alternative to the 70-200 2.8, so I expect it to do well). You could use the 18-140 for street and general use and the 70-200 F4 for the fast dog shots.

Samples with D300 and 70-200 2.8 VR:

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads