Blurry images. Need your advice.

Started Sep 14, 2013 | Discussions
bkpix
Regular MemberPosts: 373Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to Unexpresivecanvas, Sep 15, 2013

The images posted here look blurry to me, and if I were the client, I would reject them. You can barely read the product names!

Not clear what the problem is. From the shooting data you offer, they should have been OK. It's true you could have done better with f/4 and ISO 100, but I don't think the difference would be this much.

I disagree with UnexpressiveCanvas that the K20 is not up to a job like this. There are plenty of things it doesn't do as well as a Canikon pro monster, but a shoot like this is hardly one of them.

I'd suggest some patient testing with the camera and lens, first on a tripod, the handheld, shooting some simple targets and making sure you, the camera and the lens all have the situation under control.

 bkpix's gear list:bkpix's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Pentax K-5 Pentax K-5 IIs Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roland Karlsson
Forum ProPosts: 20,913Gear list
Like?
Re: without exif it's difficult to help...(nt)
In reply to james45, Sep 15, 2013

james45 wrote:

This is probably very likely to help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KZ6mIsbDc4

That is a really good one.

 Roland Karlsson's gear list:Roland Karlsson's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma DP2 Quattro Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Unexpresivecanvas
Senior MemberPosts: 1,075
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to bkpix, Sep 16, 2013

bkpix wrote:

The images posted here look blurry to me, and if I were the client, I would reject them. You can barely read the product names!

Not clear what the problem is. From the shooting data you offer, they should have been OK. It's true you could have done better with f/4 and ISO 100, but I don't think the difference would be this much.

I disagree with UnexpressiveCanvas that the K20 is not up to a job like this. There are plenty of things it doesn't do as well as a Canikon pro monster, but a shoot like this is hardly one of them.

I'd suggest some patient testing with the camera and lens, first on a tripod, the handheld, shooting some simple targets and making sure you, the camera and the lens all have the situation under control.

Hi BKPix,

I just say that technology changes and we ought to ourselves to keep updating. Auto focus technology has evolved in the last ten years. Sensor resolve has also made some progress, the same way as image processing.

I believe that when you do commercial work "good enough" is not enough.

I am not telling the OP to go and buy a camera. I am just suggesting he should RENT and try a newer/different system. And also he can do some case-controlled simulations to eliminate/or/identify if the error is coming from the photographer or if the problem is the equipment.

I recommend the specific model I did as I have a very good experience with it and I get a very high percentage of images with no focus problems at all.

Again he doesn't have to buy anything. Just try something new so he can have some parameters to compare. I also suggested this as an opportunity to evaluate other aspects of the photography process: image quality, light rendering, focusing speed and accuracy. This may help the OP make some informed decisions down the road based on his own experience and it may help him find the source of the problem.

Now where did you get the idea a Canon 6D is a "pro monster"? is just an entry level full frame camera, which if bought with the 24-105 L kit lens is close to what people paid for the K20D a few years ago. I am not advising him to go and rent/buy a Canon IDx or 1Dc.....\

Finally I believe Jim is asking from C or N users for suggestions.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Petroglyph
Senior MemberPosts: 3,006Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to Unexpresivecanvas, Sep 16, 2013

Unexpresivecanvas wrote:

bkpix wrote:

The images posted here look blurry to me, and if I were the client, I would reject them. You can barely read the product names!

Not clear what the problem is. From the shooting data you offer, they should have been OK. It's true you could have done better with f/4 and ISO 100, but I don't think the difference would be this much.

I disagree with UnexpressiveCanvas that the K20 is not up to a job like this. There are plenty of things it doesn't do as well as a Canikon pro monster, but a shoot like this is hardly one of them.

I'd suggest some patient testing with the camera and lens, first on a tripod, the handheld, shooting some simple targets and making sure you, the camera and the lens all have the situation under control.

Hi BKPix,

I just say that technology changes and we ought to ourselves to keep updating. Auto focus technology has evolved in the last ten years. Sensor resolve has also made some progress, the same way as image processing.

I believe that when you do commercial work "good enough" is not enough.

I am not telling the OP to go and buy a camera. I am just suggesting he should RENT and try a newer/different system. And also he can do some case-controlled simulations to eliminate/or/identify if the error is coming from the photographer or if the problem is the equipment.

Now where did you get the idea a Canon 6D is a "pro monster"? is just an entry level full frame camera,

I think the 6D is a great cam (nobody ever accused me of not being a gear freak )

But my K5 could get tack sharp focus in those shots.  So if he's saying all PK gear is this way I'd have to say no.  But I don't have experience with either the lens or camera (K20D) so I can't think of anything for him.  He didn't ask for PP or composition suggestions and the posts were extremely down rezzed.  Learn to do your own lens calibration (if the K20 does it) and ask the models in the shots to smile more (not the dogs, however, they did fine ) are my only suggestions to offer.  Sorry I couldn't help him any.

Cheers.

Finally I believe Jim is asking from C or N users for suggestions.

 Petroglyph's gear list:Petroglyph's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 60-250mm F4.0 ED (IF) SDM Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Canon EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
awaldram
Forum ProPosts: 10,776Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to Petroglyph, Sep 16, 2013

Petroglyph wrote:

. But I don't have experience with either the lens or camera (K20D) so I can't think of anything for him. He didn't ask for PP or composition suggestions and the posts were extremely down rezzed. Learn to do your own lens calibration (if the K20 does it) and ask the models in the shots to smile more (not the dogs, however, they did fine ) are my only suggestions to offer. Sorry I couldn't help him any.

Cheers.

Well this is how bad the k20d is @f1.4 !!!

I somehow don't think the equipment can be blamed fro the lack of sharpness in the OP's shots

Though the idea of trying different lens/bodies is a good one.

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 55mm F1.4 SDM Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JimBim
Regular MemberPosts: 218Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to Unexpresivecanvas, Sep 16, 2013

I agree with you, Unexpresivecanvas. I have to try other options. I'm using Pentax since 1998. I love this brand. But this is not a religion!

 JimBim's gear list:JimBim's gear list
Pentax *ist DL Pentax K20D Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JimBim
Regular MemberPosts: 218Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to bkpix, Sep 16, 2013

Bob, thank you for advice. Before trying other brands I have to make some tests on what I have in my camera bag. It was very interesting to read your comparison K5II to MarkII on your blog. It makes me to think.

 JimBim's gear list:JimBim's gear list
Pentax *ist DL Pentax K20D Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JimBim
Regular MemberPosts: 218Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to awaldram, Sep 16, 2013

Awadram, nice picture. I looked at your site. Excellent indoors pictures. I'm curious what percent of total pictures were sharp? What lens do you use (this time I see DA55)?

Thank you all for advices. Majority of recommendations I'm using up to now. Personally I think, that the problem lies in lenses. I'm afraid, that Pentax is not very strong here.

There you can find the second part of the photo shoot. This time only with samoyeds.

 JimBim's gear list:JimBim's gear list
Pentax *ist DL Pentax K20D Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Model Mike
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,117Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to JimBim, Sep 16, 2013
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Gerry Winterbourne
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,897
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to JimBim, Sep 16, 2013

JimBim wrote:

Thank you all for advices. Majority of recommendations I'm using up to now. Personally I think, that the problem lies in lenses. I'm afraid, that Pentax is not very strong here.

Look at Photozone for lens tests: like most test sites it concentrates on resolution. There's no difference across the board in the resolution from Pentax or any of the other DSLR makers. From each of them there is a range from not very good up to excellent. There's certainly no justification, either in those tests or the experience of most users here for your statement "Pentax is not very strong here".

-- hide signature --

Gerry
_______________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
gerry.winterbourne@ntlworld.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roland Karlsson
Forum ProPosts: 20,913Gear list
Like?
Re: 100% images?
In reply to JimBim, Sep 16, 2013

Have I missed it? Do there exist any link to 100% images? Preferable RAW?

It is so easy to blur things when downscaling.

 Roland Karlsson's gear list:Roland Karlsson's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma DP2 Quattro Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RPulley
Senior MemberPosts: 1,033
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to JimBim, Sep 16, 2013

JimBim wrote:

Some time ago I did photo shoot for VIKING. My editor told me that there are a lot of blurry pictures. It is not an issue when I'm shooting for fun. Some times I have to take a responsibility for my work and I have to have reliable results. By reading forum I see, that this is a permanent Pentax problem even with new cameras. I use K20 and plenty of time use DA16-45 lens. I do a lot of shooting at dog shows inside. Does any one have an experience for this problem how to solve it? Might be I have to look for this job to N/C and leave my Pentax for a holiday. I'm looking for answer from those who owns N/C cameras in addition to Pentax and doing proffesional job. I read Benjamin Kanarek had the same problem and moved to Nikon.

There you can find some pictures from VIKING photoshoot

In this photo shoot mostly I used these lenses FA50, FA100 Macro

All pictures edited in LR4.

Audrius

I had 2 K20d bodies with which I shot tens of thousands of images, and I own the 16-45 zoom and the FA50 f1.4 as well. I never had any problems getting sharp images in daylight like yours with either K20 body or those lenses:

You have already received some good advice, but I have not seen anyone mention that you need to make sure that the shake reduction is stabilized before you capture the image.

This means that you have to pay attention to the little green hand picture in your viewfinder. If the little hand is not lit up (green) and steady, then the SR has not stabilized. If the SR is not stabilized, you will get blurring from the sensor moving when you capture the image. It takes a bit of time to stabilize on the K20 and if you take your finger off of the shutter button, it will start over again after a short time and you will have to wait again for it to stabilize.

Otherwise, calibrating your lenses to the body might be in order, but I never had the AF fine adjustment be so far off that it caused consistent blurring, and I own and have owned dozens of lenses, Pentax, Sigma, and Tamron.

Ray

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
robbo d
Senior MemberPosts: 1,062Gear list
Like?
Re: 100% images?
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Sep 16, 2013

The fourth image in the second entry by the OP gives a 100% option and looks far sharper.

In fact the first three when 'clicked on' start looking a little sharper to me.

The downsizing seems to be an issue here, much like looking at an image on the camera screen, thinking it's rubbish before putting on the laptop screen and oh wow...nice image.

Can't see that the k20 should be giving blurred images. Not even sure the lens looks back or front focused either on that last shot......but the smaller images give the impression of softness.

 robbo d's gear list:robbo d's gear list
Pentax K-x Pentax K-01 Pentax K-5 IIs Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
alex mcloughlin
Junior MemberPosts: 30
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice. - Fairly critical views...
In reply to JimBim, Sep 17, 2013

Just my tuppenneys' worth but cant really comment on sharpness of images without scrutinizing the original...though one thing I can see is that the greys and whites are flaring somewhat...

A couple of other things I noted as well but I am going to be fairly critical:

Safety equipment - is the correct use of safety equipment whilst using this machinery being promoted. Yes I get the fact you have a 'glamorous' lifestyle shoot, but it doesn't work for me, and the companies over here (uk) are pretty hot on promoting their own safety equipment, and safe use of machines. Correct footware etc....I think its ok if these images show the item clearly not in use, but these pictures appear to show the machines in use.

Product enhancement - Yes sex sells but do these images enhance the image of the product? I have just completed some shots for the US market for Genie Terex, and one of the selling points I used to get the contract was the fact that I understood that the pictures were being commissioned to enhance the product, not just show it. Yes this could be done in a lifestyle shoot in your case but for me your images don't work - what are they saying? One quick idea would be a hunky man using the machinery and an attractive lady relaxing with glass of wine/similar sunbathing... aspirational image for both parties (of course this could be reversed etc), but has to be well lit. to draw your attention to the machine.

Photographic equipment - I used Pentax for all my work, until earlier this year, I did have a few problems though. The usual SDM failures and hit and miss AF but hey I decided that MF was the way forward and never looked back, both my flashguns have been in twice for repair, My K5 had a strange problem that gave me a double image when zoomed to near 100% I thought this was a focus issue but this was repaired. My biggest issue is the taking away of Tethered shooting, as a mac user I dont want to have to mess around to get PkTether working. And Eye-fi cards dont offer full tethered shooting, and are hit and miss. So I am selling most of my Pentax gear, but keeping my k01's (an ir and normally aspirated one) and bought a full set of ltd lenses for my day to day use. I now have the D800e, and  a few lenses which i can report to be great for my work use, but too heavy for day to day. Why are they good - they add theatre for the client, seeing the images straight away on the computer/ipad etc I can explain to them exactly what I am doing. Makes my job easier, I can shoot tethered and dont need to be near the camera if its in a dangerous place say in a quarry blast zone, or on a pole 30' in the air. Customer service, Pentax is woeful, every time I've sent gear off it has been gone for at least 4 weeks and I have had to chase it up, this is no good for working gear! My friend had an issue with a Nikon lens and was returned 1 week after him sending it off to be repaired, with emails stating the progress of repair.

Hopefully you will find tis useful and more constructive than critical.

Alex

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roland Karlsson
Forum ProPosts: 20,913Gear list
Like?
Re: 100% images?
In reply to robbo d, Sep 17, 2013

robbo d wrote:

The fourth image in the second entry by the OP gives a 100% option and looks far sharper.

I can only find one at 1.5 MP

In fact the first three when 'clicked on' start looking a little sharper to me.

Yepp, to me too.

The downsizing seems to be an issue here, much like looking at an image on the camera screen, thinking it's rubbish before putting on the laptop screen and oh wow...nice image.

Possible. The downsized images are very blurry.

Can't see that the k20 should be giving blurred images. Not even sure the lens looks back or front focused either on that last shot......but the smaller images give the impression of softness.

Yepp

 Roland Karlsson's gear list:Roland Karlsson's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma DP2 Quattro Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jenna B
Senior MemberPosts: 2,659Gear list
Like?
Re: without exif it's difficult to help...(nt)
In reply to james45, Sep 17, 2013

Made me laugh, thanks! hihihi

-- hide signature --

Always smiling! Jenn x
Flikr = http://www.flickr.com/photos/silentskies/
Personal Website = http://www.silentskies.co.uk/

 Jenna B's gear list:Jenna B's gear list
Pentax K-5 II Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] DC WR Epson Stylus Photo 1400 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JimBim
Regular MemberPosts: 218Gear list
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice. - Fairly critical views...
In reply to alex mcloughlin, Sep 18, 2013

alex mcloughlin wrote:

Just my tuppenneys' worth but cant really comment on sharpness of images without scrutinizing the original...though one thing I can see is that the greys and whites are flaring somewhat...

A couple of other things I noted as well but I am going to be fairly critical:

Safety equipment - is the correct use of safety equipment whilst using this machinery being promoted. Yes I get the fact you have a 'glamorous' lifestyle shoot, but it doesn't work for me, and the companies over here (uk) are pretty hot on promoting their own safety equipment, and safe use of machines. Correct footware etc....I think its ok if these images show the item clearly not in use, but these pictures appear to show the machines in use.

Absolutely agree. It must be important! A dealer didn't ask us about this. Strange! Thank you for this note.

Product enhancement - Yes sex sells but do these images enhance the image of the product? I have just completed some shots for the US market for Genie Terex, and one of the selling points I used to get the contract was the fact that I understood that the pictures were being commissioned to enhance the product, not just show it. Yes this could be done in a lifestyle shoot in your case but for me your images don't work - what are they saying? One quick idea would be a hunky man using the machinery and an attractive lady relaxing with glass of wine/similar sunbathing... aspirational image for both parties (of course this could be reversed etc), but has to be well lit. to draw your attention to the machine.

That's true. We were discussing about this next day after the shoot. It was a fault.

Photographic equipment - I used Pentax for all my work, until earlier this year, I did have a few problems though. The usual SDM failures and hit and miss AF but hey I decided that MF was the way forward and never looked back, both my flashguns have been in twice for repair, My K5 had a strange problem that gave me a double image when zoomed to near 100% I thought this was a focus issue but this was repaired. My biggest issue is the taking away of Tethered shooting, as a mac user I dont want to have to mess around to get PkTether working. And Eye-fi cards dont offer full tethered shooting, and are hit and miss. So I am selling most of my Pentax gear, but keeping my k01's (an ir and normally aspirated one) and bought a full set of ltd lenses for my day to day use. I now have the D800e, and a few lenses which i can report to be great for my work use, but too heavy for day to day. Why are they good - they add theatre for the client, seeing the images straight away on the computer/ipad etc I can explain to them exactly what I am doing. Makes my job easier, I can shoot tethered and dont need to be near the camera if its in a dangerous place say in a quarry blast zone, or on a pole 30' in the air. Customer service, Pentax is woeful, every time I've sent gear off it has been gone for at least 4 weeks and I have had to chase it up, this is no good for working gear! My friend had an issue with a Nikon lens and was returned 1 week after him sending it off to be repaired, with emails stating the progress of repair.

Thank you for your an experience. I didn't have any technical issues with my K20 up to now. And I don't want to leave Pentax only for my holiday. This is the reason why I'm trying to get all an experience from those, who are using different brands. I'm not in a hurry to take a decision, but I don't want to regret later.

Hopefully you will find tis useful and more constructive than critical.

Alex

Alex, your critic is very helpful. Thank you!

 JimBim's gear list:JimBim's gear list
Pentax *ist DL Pentax K20D Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
kikivrany
Senior MemberPosts: 2,782
Like?
Re: Blurry images. Need your advice.
In reply to JimBim, Sep 18, 2013

Hello JimBim

Your pictures have only 750 horizontal pixels and 495 pixels vertical.

It's impossible to say there is something wrong or not.

Your pictures contain lots of very small objects...like the grass. I'm sure there are more than 750 single grass stalk in a horizontal...so no wonder that that get a blurry mix now in this resolution.

Also, for the Viking letters (in the first picture) sometimes only 1 pixel width is possible...so no wonder that they looks blurry too.

All in all only you know, how well your original can looks like, but for a small size like here you have too small detail objects, which can not looks good.

One thing that could help for such small formats is that you can try to bring more contrast between the small details..so that the eyes think there is something like for example grass...and not a pure green.

best regards kikivrany

-- hide signature --

carpe noctem

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads