Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D Locked

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
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tabloid
Senior MemberPosts: 2,680Gear list
Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to howardroark, 10 months ago

howardroark wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

howardroark wrote:

Depth of field advantages from full frame are practically meaningless.

For 80% or more of photographers (meaning, anyone with a camera), this is a basically accurate statement.

80% of people with a camera don't know what depth of field is. 80% of cameras don't have much depth of field to speak of in the first place. People in this forum are much more likely to actually care about the details of photography. People who don't care buy their 70D without reading much in the way of reviews and probably zero forum posts, put it in Green Square mode, and carry on with their lives. People who come to this forum know better. Should those poor saps do a search for reviews and find his first or come here to get more opinions without anyone talking about what depth of field is good for then I guess they just don't get to make up their mind for themselves, huh? It is not entirely intuitive for people to just figure out on their own the differences in DoF between FF and tiny point and shoot sensors, and in photography every little difference counts.

Here's what Ken should say: "If you just want to take pictures and don't give a flying f$%^ about trying to make them look great instead of good, then listen to me. If you don't think that the details make a difference in many shooting situations, output options, and the overall look of your images then here's my advice."

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

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Cam Jones
Junior MemberPosts: 44Gear list
Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

Maybe we're biased, but personally, I find all of the above to be valid points.

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tabloid
Senior MemberPosts: 2,680Gear list
Re: Rockwell is smart.
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

meland wrote:

Rockwell is actually very smart.

For a start he has got us writing about him and those column inches will inevitably produce extra traffic for his site. If that earns him a living then he's got that part right at least.

Second he writes in a manner which is easy to understand for his target market and he expresses an opinion which is exactly what most of his readers want. The anal minutiae that tends to get discussed here ad infinitum is of absolutely no interest to most camera buyers. And he's certainly not boring.

Third, he has more photo equipment experience and knowledge than most here have. And he has his own opinions, which some of you may not agree with, but at least he doesn't simply regurgitate stuff that others have written as fact. As many do here.

Fourth, he can spell, or at least bothers to switch his spell checker on.

Fifth, he cuts through the pretentious crap, which is probably an example many of us could benefit from.

I think the fact that a Ken Rockwell camera review doesn't sound like every DPREview, Camera Labs review or a CNET review angers a lot of people (spelled S-H-E-E-P) in here. I don't agree with everything I read on his site, but then I don't go online to search for a review that validates my own views and my own biases.

Personally I would never by a 70D as its not quite right for what I need in my professional work as a full time photographer.

What I am interested in is the new Canon sensor.....as we are doing now less stills and more videos, due to the fact that publications are now going more and more onto the internet/online.

So when I looked at what Ken wrote about the video side of the 70D he got it right on the button...I can't remember exactly what he wrote , but he was impressed how well the 70D kept the subject in focus (in video mode) whilst the subject was in motion.

The problem with some people is that Ken puts on human face in his writings, which seems to bother some people.....but thats their problem.

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tabloid
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Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

Maybe we're biased, but personally, I find all of the above to be valid points.

Im not biased ....I just simply like how he writes.

DPreview writes about cameras in a different way ....and i like that as well.

So we have the best of both worlds.

The fact that we like Dpreview  and Mr Rockwell, shows that there is no bias.

Have seen how they slag off DPreview camera reviews here......lol

Ive been on here for many years, so I've seen it all.(I think).

Regards

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tabloid
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Re: Rockwell's Target Audience
In reply to howardroark, 10 months ago

howardroark wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

howardroark wrote:

s

Yeah, people SHOULD appreciate what they have and make use of it to the utmost of their ability. Unfortunately there are a lot of morons that don't get it and never will.

This is akin to someone imposing their will on others. This is not for you to decide. Not for you to dictate what they do with their equipment or how they should use it. I have a friend who is not a professional photographer or even a serious amateur who recently purchased a brand new Leica M plus an $11,000 50mm Noctilux lens. The cost didn't even bother him. Other than the fact that he could easily afford the cost of these equipment, he believed his photography skills would only improve. I wouldn't arbitrarily call people like him clueless or "morons".

No, absolutely not. My will is exactly that, MY will. It only applies to me. However, when someone has come up to me with a very expensive camera and asks why their pictures aren't in focus and it is set in Green Square made I can't help but think they didn't put much thought into their purchase nor did they read any part of the manual before coming to me. I'm sure they are very intelligent in other areas, but they are currently photographic morons. Hey, I was there too at one point and at least I can admit that I did some moronic things because of my ignorance.

People like your friend may not be morons, but they didn't do any research to learn about an art form that is very complex and that certainly doesn't prove their intelligence.

You are missing a small point here.

The more morns (as u call them) buy cameras, the cheaper they get.

And im all for that.

As for our 'moron' friends.....we all have to start somewhere.

Regards

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jeds
Senior MemberPosts: 1,078
Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

Jerry-astro wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Im not looking for supporters.....and I'm most certainly not getting on the hysterical anti Rockwell bandwagon.

I like to read what he writes.

My choice.

Of course, clearly your privilege. But out of curiosity, is your definition of "hysterical anti Rockwell" someone who just strongly disagrees with you on this topic? His writing tends to bring out strong opinions and you have yours, others have theirs -- both expressed with conviction. That's hardly hysterical IMHO.

Although Ken Rockwell can be annoying at time, I tend to agree with tabloid. He knows his stuff and is quite opinionated about it. It's not like he makes things up. So you don't like him but I'll give more weight to his reviews than many commenters on this site.

Oh yes he does!

http://www.anthonyhereld.com/buyer-beware-ken-rockwell/

Cam Jones
Junior MemberPosts: 44Gear list
Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to jeds, 10 months ago

jeds wrote:

Oh yes he does!

http://www.anthonyhereld.com/buyer-beware-ken-rockwell/

umm... no. that's just another pathetic rockwell hate site/blog. which basically means no credibility.

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tabloid
Senior MemberPosts: 2,680Gear list
Re: Rockwell's Target Audience
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

howardroark wrote:

I'm pretty sure Cam Jones is actually Ken Rockwell.

Really? you're pretty sure about that? And I'm pretty sure you're Skanter aka Sam K. You sound exactly like him.

Gentlemen please don't leave me out....

lol

Im Decard from Blade Runner.

Now let me pick on something....I watched the new Star-trek move, I don't think that I've seen such rubbish in all my life....if thats their idea of the future then i give up.

Same old predictable storyline...which a 5 year old could have written.

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Cam Jones
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Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

Maybe we're biased, but personally, I find all of the above to be valid points.

Im not biased ....I just simply like how he writes.

DPreview writes about cameras in a different way ....and i like that as well.

So we have the best of both worlds.

The fact that we like Dpreview and Mr Rockwell, shows that there is no bias.

Have seen how they slag off DPreview camera reviews here......lol

Ive been on here for many years, so I've seen it all.(I think).

Regards

Oh of course. And you're right, I find it hilarious how many people come to review sites to review and critique the reviewer. In many ways, it is more helpful reading user reviews on Amazon and B&H than professional review sites. Too many readers think they know more than the experts. They are irritating especially when they act like know-it-alls.

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tabloid
Senior MemberPosts: 2,680Gear list
Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

jeds wrote:

Oh yes he does!

http://www.anthonyhereld.com/buyer-beware-ken-rockwell/

umm... no. that's just another pathetic rockwell hate site/blog. which basically means no credibility.

Phew the amount off pointless effort it must have taken to write this anti Rockwell rubbish.

Still we live in a democracy.

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Jerry-astro
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,716Gear list
Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:

Phew the amount off pointless effort it must have taken to write this anti Rockwell rubbish.

Any less effort than it's taking you to defend him virtually any time anyone has anything negative to say?  Is that less pointless, somehow?

Defend him all you want, but keep in mind you're contributing to all this drivel as much as anyone.

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unknown member
(unknown member)
Re: Here's all the insanity you need.
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

He caters mostly for amateur who buy cameras like Nikon D800. (we have one...for professional use).

20MP or larger for photographing ones cat is not necessary.

Says you.

6MP is more than ample.

Compared to what?  Ample for what?  What are you losing when you use 6 instead of 20?  In what context is a certain level of functionality or resolution useful?  Fortunately I've shot film for about ten years and now digital for over ten years.  The things you say are things that I personally can place context around and know what boundaries they fit into, which is a limited area to say the least.  Others don't have the same experience so whatever skills they have are in no way expanded by Ken's reductionist and narrow minded views.  Enjoy his BS in good health.  Thank goodness I'm smarter than that.

So in my opinion he is correct.

Glad you two share enough in common to agree.  Whether he is correct or not isn't at issue, it is whether his conclusions are universally applicable or not.  To him and for his uses (and yours apparently) they are perfect.  If you think everyone should agree with you then perhaps the two of you deserve each other.

As for Ken telling me how to be a professional sports, paparazzi, glamour, landscape, underwater, war, photographer.....would be quite laughable thats why he doesn't attempt it.

Yet he says "cameras are"  and "this is" as though it applies across the board.  When the 7DII comes out I guarantee whoever buys it will get more for their money despite what Ken says is all you'll ever need.  Since "you" is any photographer at any level of experience doing any kind of photography in the whole world and whether they are getting paid or not and no matter what the desired output medium or size is.  Just dumb.  Really dumb.  Narrow minded, self-centered, egomaniacal, and really really dumb.  I'm glad I now know what context to place your comments in....and that's in the ignore column.

Regards

Kudos to him. That long experience has reinforced his own egocentric point of view. He has determined how all those camera suit him and him alone then he reports to everyone without the slightest thought for what might be pertinent to others on the planet. Important to him is not important to me, but that's exactly how he writes. If he were somewhat impartial then I could respect his reviews, but he's obnoxious and deceptive and anyone reading his reviews when getting into photography for the first time are being led down only one path with no options for personal judgment. "Yeah, it's got this and that but you don't need it because it's stupid." I paraphrase, but that's basically what he says time and time again without qualifying THE STATEMENT. Not helpful.

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Re: Here's all the insanity you need.
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:

howardroark wrote:

tabloid wrote:

MarshallG wrote:

It doesn't matter how many ceras he's tested. The problem is that he doesn't test them well, and he only considers his own use scenarios.

For example, if you want to shoot a track meet or football game, and produce Sports Illustrated-quality results, you will have requirements that Ken Rockwell doesn't consider.

Sports photography is a different ball game.

Its a very specialised business.

If I was to do sports photography, i would need totally different equipment to what i use now.

I dont expect him to go rushing out and playing at being a paparazzi , sport, features, glamour , still life, scenic , wild life etc etc photography just to satisfy some bizarre criticism.

Phew

That's what "qualify your statement" means. "IF you do this, then..." or "For sports..." or "you don't need this UNLESS....." but he doesn't do that. He says "everyone on God's green Earth should do this period." Absolute. He may have helped you and that's well and good, but others he hurts.

"Others he hurts".....I think that I've now heard it all.

lol

Yes, people like you and Ken can't imagine how telling people what to believe, think, and do could hurt them.  When you limit someone or reinforce their own misconceptions you hurt them and help yourself.  Since you are all that matters, that works out well for you.

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tabloid
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Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to Cam Jones, 10 months ago

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

Maybe we're biased, but personally, I find all of the above to be valid points.

Im not biased ....I just simply like how he writes.

DPreview writes about cameras in a different way ....and i like that as well.

So we have the best of both worlds.

The fact that we like Dpreview and Mr Rockwell, shows that there is no bias.

Have seen how they slag off DPreview camera reviews here......lol

Ive been on here for many years, so I've seen it all.(I think).

Regards

Oh of course. And you're right, I find it hilarious how many people come to review sites to review and critique the reviewer. In many ways, it is more helpful reading user reviews on Amazon and B&H than professional review sites. Too many readers think they know more than the experts. They are irritating especially when they act like know-it-alls.

Can u imagine if Dp printed the reviews from Amazon here.

All the Rockwell haters would have a field day......it would be like they were in a sweet shop and Christmas every day, they wouldn't know which reviewer to attack first. Rockwell would be put on a back burner.

Haha

I might drag and drop some 70D reviews from Amazon, just to get the frenzy going.

I might then become Rockwell hater as well.....I don't see why all the weirdos should have all the fun.

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tabloid
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Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to Jerry-astro, 10 months ago

Jerry-astro wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Phew the amount off pointless effort it must have taken to write this anti Rockwell rubbish.

Any less effort than it's taking you to defend him virtually any time anyone has anything negative to say? Is that less pointless, somehow?

Defend him all you want, but keep in mind you're contributing to all this drivel as much as anyone.

Im not defending anybody....I simply like what he writes .

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My pledge from today on regarding Ken.
In reply to mailman88, 10 months ago

mailman88 wrote:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/70d.htm

I love his hype and exuberance....My Canon 70D's video autofocus is the best yet from a DSLR. No, it's nowhere near as fast as it is for SLR still shots, but as video goes, it's the first I've used that does a decent job of tracking reasonable motion.

And hope others here do the same. Whenever his name is mentioned again lets pretend like he doesn't exist. Perhaps if some poor new forum member says something like "wow, he's really smart!" we should simply send a private message and let them know where he is misleading them. If one person gets enough private messages saying the same thing perhaps they'll look elsewhere for information and choose to think about a subject, research it, and come to their own conclusion. Also, when someone is given options then they will see what else is possible rather than being stuck thinking there is only one way to approach an issue.

Any more publicity for Ken isn't doing any good.  And in that spirit I also pledge to completely ignore this thread from this moment on.  I'm sure two or three people will be glad to see me go.  They are the ones who prefer it when other simply mindlessly agree with their opinions and echo them back rather than educating and giving a balanced perspective so that others can make decisions for themselves.  We all know plenty of those people.  Cliff Clavins of the world unite.

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Cam Jones
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Re: Rockwell is smart.
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:


The problem with some people is that Ken puts on human face in his writings, which seems to bother some people.....but thats their problem.

You hit the nail on the head. So many people have come to believe that Resolution charts, MTF curves, and color test charts are what a camera review site should look like. I bet most people who go into a camera store and genuinely asks questions and advice, would probably prefer talking to someone like Ken Rockwell who would not try to dazzle customers with a bunch of confusing technical stuff. Specs and technical details are important to a lot of customers but not to everyone.

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tabloid
Senior MemberPosts: 2,680Gear list
Re: Here's all the insanity you need.
In reply to howardroark, 10 months ago

howardroark wrote:

He caters mostly for amateur who buy cameras like Nikon D800. (we have one...for professional use).

20MP or larger for photographing ones cat is not necessary.

Says you.

6MP is more than ample.

Compared to what? Ample for what? What are you losing when you use 6 instead of 20? In what context is a certain level of functionality or resolution useful? Fortunately I've shot film for about ten years and now digital for over ten years. The things you say are things that I personally can place context around and know what boundaries they fit into, which is a limited area to say the least. Others don't have the same experience so whatever skills they have are in no way expanded by Ken's reductionist and narrow minded views. Enjoy his BS in good health. Thank goodness I'm smarter than that.

So in my opinion he is correct.

Glad you two share enough in common to agree. Whether he is correct or not isn't at issue, it is whether his conclusions are universally applicable or not. To him and for his uses (and yours apparently) they are perfect. If you think everyone should agree with you then perhaps the two of you deserve each other.

As for Ken telling me how to be a professional sports, paparazzi, glamour, landscape, underwater, war, photographer.....would be quite laughable thats why he doesn't attempt it.

Yet he says "cameras are" and "this is" as though it applies across the board. When the 7DII comes out I guarantee whoever buys it will get more for their money despite what Ken says is all you'll ever need. Since "you" is any photographer at any level of experience doing any kind of photography in the whole world and whether they are getting paid or not and no matter what the desired output medium or size is. Just dumb. Really dumb. Narrow minded, self-centered, egomaniacal, and really really dumb. I'm glad I now know what context to place your comments in....and that's in the ignore column.

Regards

Kudos to him. That long experience has reinforced his own egocentric point of view. He has determined how all those camera suit him and him alone then he reports to everyone without the slightest thought for what might be pertinent to others on the planet. Important to him is not important to me, but that's exactly how he writes. If he were somewhat impartial then I could respect his reviews, but he's obnoxious and deceptive and anyone reading his reviews when getting into photography for the first time are being led down only one path with no options for personal judgment. "Yeah, it's got this and that but you don't need it because it's stupid." I paraphrase, but that's basically what he says time and time again without qualifying THE STATEMENT. Not helpful.

Sorry but i didn't understand any of that.

Could u write in laymen's language.

I hope that im criticising you as that seems to be the name of the game here.....so I'm just trying to get in on the act.

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Cam Jones
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Re: When will that troll go away?
In reply to Jerry-astro, 10 months ago

Jerry-astro wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Phew the amount off pointless effort it must have taken to write this anti Rockwell rubbish.

Any less effort than it's taking you to defend him virtually any time anyone has anything negative to say? Is that less pointless, somehow?

Defend him all you want, but keep in mind you're contributing to all this drivel as much as anyone.

He's defending and you're attacking. That's expending as much if not more effort when you trash someone. Unless you just enjoy belittling people, like many who come to these forums do.

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Cam Jones
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Re: Oh My!...Rockwell's Review on the 70D
In reply to tabloid, 10 months ago

tabloid wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Cam Jones wrote:

tabloid wrote:

Also Ken doesn't attempt to preach to anybody how to be a sports, war, glamour, underwater, parachute, paparazzi, photographer.

He has tested more cameras then most people will have in their lifetime.

I personally find him quite helpful in the limitation that he writes about.

People have embarked on a crusade of misery against him virtually for no reason at all.

I actually like what he writes as he gives it a human face.

Regards

Maybe we're biased, but personally, I find all of the above to be valid points.

Im not biased ....I just simply like how he writes.

DPreview writes about cameras in a different way ....and i like that as well.

So we have the best of both worlds.

The fact that we like Dpreview and Mr Rockwell, shows that there is no bias.

Have seen how they slag off DPreview camera reviews here......lol

Ive been on here for many years, so I've seen it all.(I think).

Regards

Oh of course. And you're right, I find it hilarious how many people come to review sites to review and critique the reviewer. In many ways, it is more helpful reading user reviews on Amazon and B&H than professional review sites. Too many readers think they know more than the experts. They are irritating especially when they act like know-it-alls.

Can u imagine if Dp printed the reviews from Amazon here.

All the Rockwell haters would have a field day......it would be like they were in a sweet shop and Christmas every day, they wouldn't know which reviewer to attack first. Rockwell would be put on a back burner.

Haha

I might drag and drop some 70D reviews from Amazon, just to get the frenzy going.

I might then become Rockwell hater as well.....I don't see why all the weirdos should have all the fun.

LOL. No, please don't it!! hahaha.

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