Time for new camera.

Started Sep 11, 2013 | Discussions
Ron_43
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Time for new camera.
Sep 11, 2013

While I was out taking photos today with my ZS19, I noticed a big dark spot in the pictures on the LCD.  Looking at the lens I can see a piece of what looks like grey tape hanging down behind the lens, hence the dark blob.  So now I'm thinking about the ZS25, LX7, LF1 or maybe looking at Canon G15 or Nikon P7700.  So the search is on.

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Jerry045
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Ron_43, Sep 11, 2013

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem?  At this point you don't have much to lose.

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Ron_43
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Jerry045, Sep 11, 2013

Jerry045 wrote:

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem? At this point you don't have much to lose.

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Jerry

I will try that eventually, but I'll need a camera in the meantime.

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in_focus
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Ron_43, Sep 11, 2013

Sorry to hear about your problem, Ron.. but look at it from the bright side, now you have a reason to change/upgrade to camera your sub-conscience was saying you should buy, .. wishing you good luck in selection.

All my best,

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Bruno

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Ron_43
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to in_focus, Sep 11, 2013

in_focus wrote:

Sorry to hear about your problem, Ron.. but look at it from the bright side, now you have a reason to change/upgrade to camera your sub-conscience was saying you should buy, .. wishing you good luck in selection.

All my best,

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Bruno

Thanks Bruno.  I was thinking about a new camera and my wife says now the decision has been made for me. 

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GeraldW
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Ron_43, Sep 11, 2013

CameraLLabs compared the ZS25, LX7 and LF1.  On image quality, the LX7 won, LF1 second by a fair margin, and the ZS25 was last.  It's worth reading.  My thought is that the default settings on the LF1 are soft, so it needs more sharpening.  iResolution seems to be the only choice for that for internal settings.  I down loaded and PP'd some lF1 shots and they look a lot better with a little sharpening.

I own the G15, and like it a lot.  Very sharp, and excellent noise control at high ISO.  It's surprisingly good feeling in the hands and smaller than you'd think.  It fits in a shirt pocket; although it's a bit heavy for that.  Best in a trouser pocket or a jacket pocket.

I also took a hard look at the P7800.  It seems to have everything; but it's a good bit larger, and heavier.  The published figures look light to me, so I'm estimating that with a lens cap and filter, and neck strap, it's probably going to weigh in at 16-17 oz.  It has the articulated LCD, high resolution EVF, hot shoe, and the lens is threaded for 40.5 mm filters.  The only real question is whether it inherited the sluggishness of the P7700.  If it did, it will take great JPEGs; but video and RAW will be a frustration.  If it's speedy, however, it could be a real winner.

Since I already have the G15; the LF1 is the best fit in my system and would replace my S90 and SX230HS.  It would play well with the G15 and FZ200.

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Kevin Coppalotti
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Ron_43, Sep 11, 2013

anyone thought of jumping onto the new $399 sony A3000. aps-c 20mp, evf,? bargain.

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Ron_43
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Re: Thanks Jerry (nt)
In reply to GeraldW, Sep 12, 2013

GeraldW wrote:

CameraLLabs compared the ZS25, LX7 and LF1. On image quality, the LX7 won, LF1 second by a fair margin, and the ZS25 was last. It's worth reading. My thought is that the default settings on the LF1 are soft, so it needs more sharpening. iResolution seems to be the only choice for that for internal settings. I down loaded and PP'd some lF1 shots and they look a lot better with a little sharpening.

I own the G15, and like it a lot. Very sharp, and excellent noise control at high ISO. It's surprisingly good feeling in the hands and smaller than you'd think. It fits in a shirt pocket; although it's a bit heavy for that. Best in a trouser pocket or a jacket pocket.

I also took a hard look at the P7800. It seems to have everything; but it's a good bit larger, and heavier. The published figures look light to me, so I'm estimating that with a lens cap and filter, and neck strap, it's probably going to weigh in at 16-17 oz. It has the articulated LCD, high resolution EVF, hot shoe, and the lens is threaded for 40.5 mm filters. The only real question is whether it inherited the sluggishness of the P7700. If it did, it will take great JPEGs; but video and RAW will be a frustration. If it's speedy, however, it could be a real winner.

Since I already have the G15; the LF1 is the best fit in my system and would replace my S90 and SX230HS. It would play well with the G15 and FZ200.

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Jerry

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Ron_43
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Re: I'll have a look at it Kevin (nt)
In reply to Kevin Coppalotti, Sep 12, 2013

Kevin Coppalotti wrote:

anyone thought of jumping onto the new $399 sony A3000. aps-c 20mp, evf,? bargain.

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Erik Ohlson
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Jerry045, Sep 12, 2013

Jerry045 wrote:

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem? At this point you don't have much to lose.

-- hide signature --

www.flickr.com/photos/av8tor045
Jerry

Normally the lens itself is considered off-limits, but Graham Houghton does have a YouTube lens disassembly video.

It would be really good to hear what that is hanging down!

I got a ZS25 when my ZS19 packed in, and it seems just as good - and in shooting around home with an LX7 & a Canon S-100, both of which I bought just to satisfy my curiousity - I really didn't see any significant IQ difference. Maybe for dedicated 'pixil-peepers', but I still prefer the size & versatility of the ZS, and in your situation I - myself - would go with the ZS25.

Size-wise, the Canon S-100 with Clearviewer is great, if you don't really use the longer zooms - so IMHO the LF-1 would be a good choice, too.

And then there is the old Canon TX-1 which Cyril Catt likes so much - I finally decided to buy one, also. 7.1 Megapixil, 10x zoom - but the "1.9x Digital Tele-Converter" works a TREAT! It is actually sharper at approximately 20x, than my ZS19 was at optical 20x zoom - go figure! PLUS it can be set to "Super Macro" where it will focus right down until the subject is touching the lens.

Check it out on Steve's-Digicams - a good writeup. I got a used one which looks & acts new, for a reasonable price. A nice little 3.5", x 2.3 + a 3mm bump amidships, x 1.3" block of stainless steel.

The TX-1 is a bit fiddly to get used to and a Clearviewer won't fit it's little 1-1/8" X almost 1-1/2" swivelling LCD screen, although Cyril has modified a slide viewer to do the job pretty well.

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Ron_43
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Re: Erik
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Sep 12, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Jerry045 wrote:

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem? At this point you don't have much to lose.

-- hide signature --

www.flickr.com/photos/av8tor045
Jerry

Normally the lens itself is considered off-limits, but Graham Houghton does have a YouTube lens disassembly video.

It would be really good to hear what that is hanging down!

I got a ZS25 when my ZS19 packed in, and it seems just as good - and in shooting around home with an LX7 & a Canon S-100, both of which I bought just to satisfy my curiousity - I really didn't see any significant IQ difference. Maybe for dedicated 'pixil-peepers', but I still prefer the size & versatility of the ZS, and in your situation I - myself - would go with the ZS25.

Size-wise, the Canon S-100 with Clearviewer is great, if you don't really use the longer zooms - so IMHO the LF-1 would be a good choice, too.

And then there is the old Canon TX-1 which Cyril Catt likes so much - I finally decided to buy one, also. 7.1 Megapixil, 10x zoom - but the "1.9x Digital Tele-Converter" works a TREAT! It is actually sharper at approximately 20x, than my ZS19 was at optical 20x zoom - go figure! PLUS it can be set to "Super Macro" where it will focus right down until the subject is touching the lens.

Check it out on Steve's-Digicams - a good writeup. I got a used one which looks & acts new, for a reasonable price. A nice little 3.5", x 2.3 + a 3mm bump amidships, x 1.3" block of stainless steel.

The TX-1 is a bit fiddly to get used to and a Clearviewer won't fit it's little 1-1/8" X almost 1-1/2" swivelling LCD screen, although Cyril has modified a slide viewer to do the job pretty well.

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"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Thanks Erik.  I do value your input and like to follow your posts on here and your Flick site.  I think I'll settle on the ZS25 as I do like the Panasonic colors.  I will eventually take the SZ19 apart and see what the problem is.  I do have an inquisitive mind and have worked on a lot of electronics including desktop and main frame computers, but not cameras.  It will be interesting.

Ron

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Erik Ohlson
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Re: Erik
In reply to Ron_43, Sep 12, 2013

Ron_43 wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Jerry045 wrote:

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem? At this point you don't have much to lose.

-- hide signature --

www.flickr.com/photos/av8tor045
Jerry

Normally the lens itself is considered off-limits, but Graham Houghton does have a YouTube lens disassembly video.

It would be really good to hear what that is hanging down!

I got a ZS25 when my ZS19 packed in, and it seems just as good - and in shooting around home with an LX7 & a Canon S-100, both of which I bought just to satisfy my curiousity - I really didn't see any significant IQ difference. Maybe for dedicated 'pixil-peepers', but I still prefer the size & versatility of the ZS, and in your situation I - myself - would go with the ZS25.

Size-wise, the Canon S-100 with Clearviewer is great, if you don't really use the longer zooms - so IMHO the LF-1 would be a good choice, too.

And then there is the old Canon TX-1 which Cyril Catt likes so much - I finally decided to buy one, also. 7.1 Megapixil, 10x zoom - but the "1.9x Digital Tele-Converter" works a TREAT! It is actually sharper at approximately 20x, than my ZS19 was at optical 20x zoom - go figure! PLUS it can be set to "Super Macro" where it will focus right down until the subject is touching the lens.

Check it out on Steve's-Digicams - a good writeup. I got a used one which looks & acts new, for a reasonable price. A nice little 3.5", x 2.3 + a 3mm bump amidships, x 1.3" block of stainless steel.

The TX-1 is a bit fiddly to get used to and a Clearviewer won't fit it's little 1-1/8" X almost 1-1/2" swivelling LCD screen, although Cyril has modified a slide viewer to do the job pretty well.

Thanks Erik. I do value your input and like to follow your posts on here and your Flick site. I think I'll settle on the ZS25 as I do like the Panasonic colors. I will eventually take the SZ19 apart and see what the problem is. I do have an inquisitive mind and have worked on a lot of electronics including desktop and main frame computers, but not cameras. It will be interesting.

Ron

Ron,

I don't think you will regret that.

I mostly mentioned the TX1 as an example of the range available to the 'adventurist'.

I do prefer the slide on-off & 'review' switches on the ZS19 but I've only experienced accidental turn-on once, and that was in 'review' mode, so the lens didn't attempt to deploy - which is my fear. The position on the top, of the camera on-off is much less likely to be activated in a pocket.

This "lens-in-pocket" fear is why I started Digital wit folded-optics cameras - Minolta Xi & later X-50. My first pocket panny was the TZ1 in which, when it was turned on, the lens twitched but never stuck out beyond it's solid protective bezel until one actually zoomed it - it also had a real lenscap which I regard as a plus, but we do hear bitter comments on that from LX* users!

Good luck in your quest!!

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Ron_43
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Re: Thanks Erik. (nt)
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Sep 12, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Ron_43 wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Jerry045 wrote:

Oh no....

Would it be worth trying to disassemble the camera (per Graham Houghton's videos) and attempt to fix the problem? At this point you don't have much to lose.

-- hide signature --

www.flickr.com/photos/av8tor045
Jerry

Normally the lens itself is considered off-limits, but Graham Houghton does have a YouTube lens disassembly video.

It would be really good to hear what that is hanging down!

I got a ZS25 when my ZS19 packed in, and it seems just as good - and in shooting around home with an LX7 & a Canon S-100, both of which I bought just to satisfy my curiousity - I really didn't see any significant IQ difference. Maybe for dedicated 'pixil-peepers', but I still prefer the size & versatility of the ZS, and in your situation I - myself - would go with the ZS25.

Size-wise, the Canon S-100 with Clearviewer is great, if you don't really use the longer zooms - so IMHO the LF-1 would be a good choice, too.

And then there is the old Canon TX-1 which Cyril Catt likes so much - I finally decided to buy one, also. 7.1 Megapixil, 10x zoom - but the "1.9x Digital Tele-Converter" works a TREAT! It is actually sharper at approximately 20x, than my ZS19 was at optical 20x zoom - go figure! PLUS it can be set to "Super Macro" where it will focus right down until the subject is touching the lens.

Check it out on Steve's-Digicams - a good writeup. I got a used one which looks & acts new, for a reasonable price. A nice little 3.5", x 2.3 + a 3mm bump amidships, x 1.3" block of stainless steel.

The TX-1 is a bit fiddly to get used to and a Clearviewer won't fit it's little 1-1/8" X almost 1-1/2" swivelling LCD screen, although Cyril has modified a slide viewer to do the job pretty well.

Thanks Erik. I do value your input and like to follow your posts on here and your Flick site. I think I'll settle on the ZS25 as I do like the Panasonic colors. I will eventually take the SZ19 apart and see what the problem is. I do have an inquisitive mind and have worked on a lot of electronics including desktop and main frame computers, but not cameras. It will be interesting.

Ron

Ron,

I don't think you will regret that.

I mostly mentioned the TX1 as an example of the range available to the 'adventurist'.

I do prefer the slide on-off & 'review' switches on the ZS19 but I've only experienced accidental turn-on once, and that was in 'review' mode, so the lens didn't attempt to deploy - which is my fear. The position on the top, of the camera on-off is much less likely to be activated in a pocket.

This "lens-in-pocket" fear is why I started Digital wit folded-optics cameras - Minolta Xi & later X-50. My first pocket panny was the TZ1 in which, when it was turned on, the lens twitched but never stuck out beyond it's solid protective bezel until one actually zoomed it - it also had a real lenscap which I regard as a plus, but we do hear bitter comments on that from LX* users!

Good luck in your quest!!

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www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

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Ianperegian
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Test comparisons
In reply to GeraldW, Sep 12, 2013

Thanks for that "heads up" Jerry. I think Cameralabs reviews are very good, and most importantly for camera buyers, they are timely, unlike other some other review sites. I only wish they would do proper resolution testing, which IMHO is the only objective way to be able to say model A can capture more detail than model B. It's not expensive to do, and Jimmy (JC Brown) has made his innovative resolution charts freely available so anyone can use them.

Outdoor tests are always fraught with difficulties, and that is evident to some exent in those shots of the church (http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC_LF1/outdoor_resolution.shtml ). Even though the shots were taken "minutes apart", the sun had moved slightly so that in the door crops the vertical shadow was at significantly different positions at the LHS of the doorway. Similarly, the wind vane had moved its position.

While the 100% crops as presented do appear to show the ZS25 being significantly poorer in IQ, I think that is a somewhat false impression. The exposure for the ZS25 image seems to have been higher than for the other two models (the EXIF details are not given), and the ZS25 JPG seems to have somewhat less in-camera sharpening.

I compared the crops after resizing them all to the same size and applying slight sharpening and levels adjustment to the ZS25 image. The results are shown below (LF1 at left, LX7 middle, ZS25 at right):

I think the above comparisons demonstrate that for practical purposes (bearing in mind they are 100% crops), the IQ and amount of detail captured are fairly similar for all three models.

It is also necessary to take into account that the focal length used for the tests, while not actually stated, must have been 90mm (equiv) or less, since that is the maximum FL of the LX7. For the ZS25, that represents quite a low zoom setting in its 24-480mm range. At 480mm there is no question that the ZS25 would capture vastly more detail than the LX7 or the LF1 at their max zoom settings and enlarged to match. In other words it's not really comparing "apples with apples".

Ian

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Erik Ohlson
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Re: Test comparisons
In reply to Ianperegian, Sep 12, 2013

Ian, thanks for the timely comparison.

I just bookmarked this post.

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PC Wheeler
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to Kevin Coppalotti, Sep 12, 2013

Kevin Coppalotti wrote:

anyone thought of jumping onto the new $399 sony A3000. aps-c 20mp, evf,? bargain.

Rather basic in function. And you must buy lenses for it (has a NEX E-mount as I recall).

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Phil

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Kevin Coppalotti
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Re: Time for new camera.
In reply to PC Wheeler, Sep 12, 2013

PC Wheeler wrote:

Kevin Coppalotti wrote:

anyone thought of jumping onto the new $399 sony A3000. aps-c 20mp, evf,? bargain.

Rather basic in function. And you must buy lenses for it (has a NEX E-mount as I recall).

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Phil

true, but a search on ebay shows a lot of suitable lenses at excellent prices.

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