Thank you DPR .

Started Sep 10, 2013 | Discussions
dingenus
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Re: Thank you
In reply to herebefore, Sep 10, 2013

If I remember well, the EVF lag is 0,029sec. With IS off the EVF is able to follow 6.5 fr/sec. with CAF.

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citizenlouie
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

Denjw wrote:

Collin I am in your camp so I won't tell you to bugger off!

But the EM-1 maybe a nice walk around/travel camera when we are not shooting birds!

yep I see it as a replacement for the E-620 with short lenses for carry around or very static shooting.

Interesting to see what the 40-150 will be like and if they have got CAF sorted in m4/3 native mode.

Exactly my thought....  It's what Olympus is trying to recapture the E-620 crowd, which is the largest 4/3 user group.  And if I like E-M1 after handle it, it might buy it to replace E-620, but it's not an E-5 replacement, as I have said before.  It's going to the right direction certainly, but not quite there yet.

I never thought E-M1's main sensor-based PDAF would be faster than E-5 which has a dedicated PDAF sensor for it.  Saying that's true is like SLT is better than SLR.  The difference might become less and less apparent due to technological advancement, but it won't be the same.  It's how much users would see that as an advantage, just like 4/3 sensors are getting closer to APS-C level of IQ in every respect, it's a moot point to argue which is better for most people.  (actually most people are better served with advanced P&S's instead of DSLRs, but we have too many people who don't need a DSLRs got them, and they just keep trolling the forums with stuff they don't understand).

m.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 looks very interesting.  It reminds me a lot of Zuiko 50-200mm SWD in shape, but it's the final IQ that my judgement will be based on (I don't go compare specs like many people).  I doubt it would be better.  None of the m4/3 lens is better than 4/3 counterpart (and 75mm f/1.8 has no peer) because Olympus is beginning to use software correction as a resort to cut production cost associates with optically correct lenses (and to keep the size of the lens down).  m.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 would be a good compromise, but I am willing to accept that and the smaller zoom range probably is Oly's commitment to make m4/3 as competitive as 12-60mm SWD without cheating too much on optical quality by using software solution.

After all, it is the size of 4/3 lenses that spelled the doom of the 4/3 format, despite the reason behind such big lenses is for optical perfection, which general public don't seem to have the sophistication to observe.  Cash is the king in business, and you design what the general public wants, not necessarily what's the best....  Even Olympus executives were baffled with the success of m4/3 over 4/3's, but who would argue with their customers?

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dingenus
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Re: Question ?
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

Collin, here you find some eh, bifs

http://fourthirds-user.com/2013/09/olympus_omd_em1_handson_preview.php/a

The first dove with the 50-200 is impressive imo.

The caf is using Paf for 4/3 and combined Contrast af & Phase af for micro 4/3 as I understand it well.

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DaveTG
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Re: Question ?
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

Hi
As I understand it, as the PDAF is on the image sensor there should not be the same in-camera errors as DSLRs where the PDAF is on a different optical path to the image sensor.

It seems that in-lens error correction can be entered for each lens.

See http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2013/9/9/olympus-om-d-e-m1-autofocus.html
and go down to 'PDAF woes'

Cheers

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citizenlouie
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Re: Accuracy is a big factor
In reply to TrapperJohn, Sep 10, 2013

I am not surprised E-M5's CDAF is more accurate but slower.  Accuracy is CDAF's forte while speed is PDAF's.  Honestly, only recently I noticed my E-620 with Zuiko 50-200mm SWD has an issue with AF issue when the subject is in close range (therefore, DoF is shallow enough to observe the AF inaccuracy).  That's how little I rely on AF for my photos..., and I've own E-620 since 2009... (most of my serious shots are done in MF on tripod), nor do I care a minor speed difference of AF which most forum warriors seem to make a big deal out of.  I am pretty sure E-M1 would focus acceptably with my 4/3 lenses, at least according my very lenient standard on AF speed.  But then, it has never been the AF speed that I find the migration to E-M1 (or any m4/3 camera) a little painful to me....  There are way too many things 4/3 does better (OVF, handling, color accuracy, price, etc.).

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CharlesB58
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

There are going to be a lot of these type of pro and con threads around for awhile. This is my point of view.

Before I get jumped on . I have looked at all the stuff after I had a shower and got dressed ( Read below) and this looks like a wonderful camera in most aspects and a great upgrade for those who find it fills their section of the pond.

Thank you DPR for your preview and for being candid about the auto focus of the E-M1on 4/3 lenses. They brought to the fore exactly what I was looking for as regards the comparison before we all got gear lust and plonked some money down. Some see it differently , I see it as a service to their readers buy informing them that there might be dragons depending on your requirements. For the people coming from a E-5xx/6xx system it will probably be a great advancement. Please keep in mind that this camera is toted as a E-5 replacement which should mean its better in all departments.

There will be the others that say read this blog or read this review or that. As to competency. The preview is one of the most comprehensive I have seen on this site a near mini review. The testers on this site must have tens of cameras through their hands per year and they know what a camera should do. What came out strongly is if you expect E-3/5/30 AF well you are not going to get it with 4/3 lenses on this camera. DPR where never that enamored with the E-3/5 focus to start off with so read between the lines.

I read the pre view scanning for the AF part and found what I wanted or did not want to find. I stopped reading and went and had a shower and got dressed for work. I then read the rest of the stuff and was very impressed with the other assets of this camera.

Gear lust , want needs are going to be the driving factor around here for awhile. And that is why I thank DPR for being candid , I and a few others will not be jumping at this kit due to their findings for awhile other than maybe some others jumping to a different ship. The focus thing is my issue to others it's not going to be a issue which can't be sorted out with a bit of nip and tuck so this can be seen as a bit of hot air.

I will probably be told to bugger of else where but that would not be the first rime.

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Collin, I know you are in a tough situation because of your primary subject interest and personal preferences, and that you just invested in that G.A.S. inducing 90-250. I know you genuinely want Olympus to succeed in providing a camera that will let you make the most of your investment in lenses while keeping up with the best functional and IQ capabilities.

They used a single, preproduction EM1 so we have no idea whether the firmware was functioning optimally. I suspect that could be why DPR says the AF is not up to DLSR speed and accuracy, yet other people who have tested the camera say it is. Time and the release firmware will tell.

So I for one will not tell you to bugger off for having doubts about the EM1. From what you have said, even if the focus is acceptable, the EVF may still present reason for you to doubt. That is of course another aspect of the camera that people who need a certain viewfinder image, or may frequently shoot high speed burst sequences, to be concerned about.

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OM User
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to citizenlouie, Sep 10, 2013

citizenlouie wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

...yep I see it as a replacement for the E-620 with short lenses for carry around or very static shooting.

Exactly my thought.... It's what Olympus is trying to recapture the E-620 crowd, which is the largest 4/3 user group. And if I like E-M1 after handle it, it might buy it to replace E-620, but it's not an E-5 replacement, as I have said before. It's going to the right direction certainly, but not quite there yet....

For some it will be a viable alternative. For those with E-xxx or E-xx it will likely be a significant improvement and this will be a lot of people. For the E-5/E-3 users it will probably depend on how and where you use your camera. But you don't have to jump yet and there will obviously be improvements in the next couple of years. The really  important thing is that at last Olympus have spoken as to what the future will be and that is what you should base your decisons on.

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CollBaxter
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Re: Question ?
In reply to dingenus, Sep 10, 2013

dingenus wrote:

Collin, here you find some eh, bifs

http://fourthirds-user.com/2013/09/olympus_omd_em1_handson_preview.php/a

The first dove with the 50-200 is impressive imo.

The caf is using Paf for 4/3 and combined Contrast af & Phase af for micro 4/3 as I understand it well.

Yes that  picture is not bad. But look at the roof and the pitch of the roof .  The whole roof is  in focus so the focus zone is huge. You just have to get a high shutter speed in those situations.

Good CAF is something that locks onto the subject and keeps that subject  in focus regardless of back ground The difference between a good and a bad BIF is often the isolated back ground.

Thanks for the link. I found some of the more static images interesting.

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CollBaxter
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Thanks Charles.
In reply to CharlesB58, Sep 10, 2013

CharlesB58 wrote:

CollBaxter wrote:

There are going to be a lot of these type of pro and con threads around for awhile. This is my point of view.

Before I get jumped on . I have looked at all the stuff after I had a shower and got dressed ( Read below) and this looks like a wonderful camera in most aspects and a great upgrade for those who find it fills their section of the pond.

Thank you DPR for your preview and for being candid about the auto focus of the E-M1on 4/3 lenses. They brought to the fore exactly what I was looking for as regards the comparison before we all got gear lust and plonked some money down. Some see it differently , I see it as a service to their readers buy informing them that there might be dragons depending on your requirements. For the people coming from a E-5xx/6xx system it will probably be a great advancement. Please keep in mind that this camera is toted as a E-5 replacement which should mean its better in all departments.

There will be the others that say read this blog or read this review or that. As to competency. The preview is one of the most comprehensive I have seen on this site a near mini review. The testers on this site must have tens of cameras through their hands per year and they know what a camera should do. What came out strongly is if you expect E-3/5/30 AF well you are not going to get it with 4/3 lenses on this camera. DPR where never that enamored with the E-3/5 focus to start off with so read between the lines.

I read the pre view scanning for the AF part and found what I wanted or did not want to find. I stopped reading and went and had a shower and got dressed for work. I then read the rest of the stuff and was very impressed with the other assets of this camera.

Gear lust , want needs are going to be the driving factor around here for awhile. And that is why I thank DPR for being candid , I and a few others will not be jumping at this kit due to their findings for awhile other than maybe some others jumping to a different ship. The focus thing is my issue to others it's not going to be a issue which can't be sorted out with a bit of nip and tuck so this can be seen as a bit of hot air.

I will probably be told to bugger of else where but that would not be the first rime.

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Collin
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New Seventh Wonder of the World.
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter/image/95297052.jpg

Collin, I know you are in a tough situation because of your primary subject interest and personal preferences, and that you just invested in that G.A.S. inducing 90-250. I know you genuinely want Olympus to succeed in providing a camera that will let you make the most of your investment in lenses while keeping up with the best functional and IQ capabilities.

They used a single, preproduction EM1 so we have no idea whether the firmware was functioning optimally. I suspect that could be why DPR says the AF is not up to DLSR speed and accuracy, yet other people who have tested the camera say it is. Time and the release firmware will tell.

So I for one will not tell you to bugger off for having doubts about the EM1. From what you have said, even if the focus is acceptable, the EVF may still present reason for you to doubt. That is of course another aspect of the camera that people who need a certain viewfinder image, or may frequently shoot high speed burst sequences, to be concerned about.

Thanks Charles .

I have realized that Olympus is on another path again. I accepted that I would have to come to terms with an EVF eventually. I have now come to realize that I might have to sit out this round and hope that their might be something down the line. I sat out the E-3 as I though it was not that much of a upgrade from the E-520 . I went for the E-30 fortunately.

The AF statement by DPR is a bit crushing , yes I can concede that it might not be as bad as suggested. What most wanted are not the words a '"bit disappointed" but "ecstatic" . I also noticed how the E-M1 has been hobbled with the use of 4/3 lenses. No option to drive them in CDAF mode even if you wanted to. MF in video mode. etc. Its as if the message is we will look after you a bit this time around but you better change to m4/3 lenses. I also even a question if they will even bother to enhance the 4/3 lens operation in the next iteration or even support it at all.

As I said before I wondered if we were going to get crumbs , a slice , or a loaf. At this moment it looks like a crumbly slice well to me any way . Well I still have the 4/3 cameras with a fair amount of clicks on them and I will wait.

As to the 90-250 . Two things came up one was the excellent price (Which is becoming less excellent monthly due to repair costs. )  . The other most important thing was I needed it. My sample of the bigma and the 50-200 with EC's are excellent but both of those lenses have serious bokhe problems or the lack of decent bokhe . More like brutal and busy. The 90-250 gives me that separation I need ( When it does not back focus) . So it would be nice to have a new 16mp sensor etc. I hoped for that in a E-7 which dose not appear to be on the cards any more.

We will have to wait and see. I can't afford to change systems I will get to know my current stuff better.

Oh yes and then the puny battery thing.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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Bruce Spell
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Re: Question ?
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

What I found telling in most of the BIF shots was that they were taken with a MFT lens not a FT lens.  That's well and good but doesn't really give an indication as to the performance of the new body with the SHG FT lenses.

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sirharold
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to HarjTT, Sep 10, 2013

Bring your EC-14 with you. We want to know how that combo works.

Thanks

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Jan Chelminski
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Thanks for those links.
In reply to Julian_K, Sep 11, 2013

I think the jury is still out on the full AF situation, but not for long.

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Southernphotojourno
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Re: No new E bodies confirmed direct from Oly
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 11, 2013

Ok. Went direct again and was told the following:

"The EM1 is the successor of E5 for all Four Thirds lenses.

We are not thinking about releasing another Four Thirds bodies by the end of this year or the near future."

(I have sent a copy to the mods so they can see I am not making this up.)

So there we have it. E series is dead and buried and all the other talk at CES and elesewhere by executives about supporting it etc was just so much hedging of revenue until the kick to the guts was executed!

Like with the move to the 43 mount after OM, the only choice is to live with an adaptor and the new direction/EVF etc, or lump it.

So, an extended hands-on will be the final arbiter.

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mick_g
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 11, 2013

They have just updated the preview, seems more positive regarding AF & FT lenses.

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Snowbird_UT
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A little push from Oly perhaps......
In reply to mick_g, Sep 11, 2013

How many folks emailed Olympus Imaging in Japan and directly quoted DPR? I know I did! Oly probably asking DPR to give the little gem a chance Nah, that could never happen.

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GBC
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 11, 2013

I would read the user report at

http://fourthirds-user.com/2013/09/olympus_omd_em1_new_features_explained_.php/b

They seem to feel that the AF speed with four thirds lenses is on par with a Nikon D200 or D7000, for what that's work.
Unlike DPR, they used many of the SHG lenses, as opposed to DPR's one lens, and shooting along side an e5.
The comments are quite interesting too.
I really don't think DPR really did much homework with the EM1 and the older lenses. They are likely too busy dealing with other things they find more interesting.

Here are some excerpts.

...After using an OM-D E-M1 for almost two weeks with a wide range of Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds lenses we feel we're getting to know the new Olympus flagship quite well...

...Under most circumstances the E-M1 focuses Four Thirds lenses normally and perhaps even faster than an Olympus E-5. We have been using lenses like the Zuiko Digital 300mm f/2.8, 90-250mm f/2.8, 150mm f/2.0 and the 50-200 f/2.8-3.5 SWD photographing birds in flight (BIF) perhaps the ultimate challenge for an autofocus system...

...The E-M1 is at least as good as an E-5 and we honestly feel that overall it is actually better thanks to the 26 additional focus points and improved predictive focus and subject tracking algorithms. The E-M1 is not top in class but it is a very respectable performer in action photography conditions, well-aided by up to 6.5 frames per second continuous shooting while continuously focusing...

...If there is a weakness, the lack of cross-type AF points is occasionally frustrating when you happen across details you are trying to lock focus on that are largely made up of horizontal lines...

...We found that the E-M1 focused well in low light using Four Thirds lenses, although a direct comparison with an E-5 saw the older camera edge-out the E-M1 in extremely low light...

...But fundamentally, if you had concerns that a Micro Four Thirds camera would never be able to do your Four Thirds lenses justice, we found little to confirm any such worries...

and this from the comments:

In the time I had with the camera I found focus speed good ; I normally use an E5 I tried my Olympus. Four thirds 7-14 ,14-54, 12-60, 50-200, 70-300 the Sigma. 150 and the 50-500 Bigma all seemed to focus well and to me a quick as normal. I tried the Olympus 300 supplied on the day and found it hunted as did some of the other lenses a quick manual prefocus solved the hunting. Tried the 150 for macro and it worked well for me rocking as normal. Very impressed with the camera on the day I did find the four way switch akward to use . Lots of buttons and settings which will take E 3, 30 & 5 owners time to get used to. Hope this helps

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SHood
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The most detailed review yet Thanks /nt
In reply to GBC, Sep 11, 2013
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GBC
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Re: The most detailed review yet Thanks /nt
In reply to SHood, Sep 12, 2013

Yes, when I stumbled across it was a breath of fresh air.
I love the part about the af calibration and the fact that CAF has a lock feature with 4 settings.

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Gesture
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Re: The most detailed review yet Thanks /nt
In reply to SHood, Sep 12, 2013

Yes, thanks for sharing.  While this camera may not please all camps, and it's quality remains to be confirmed, there is no doubt that Olympus aspired to excellence here.

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jimbeaux
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Re: Thank you DPR .
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 12, 2013

There sure are a lot of hands on You Tube videos out there... both pro and con...  Shift happens... For those of you that are struggling and caught up in drama mode, you have exactly three choices to make right now.  These are: Accept it, change it (make Olympus build an E7) or move on!  In reality you have 2 choices  whining will get one no where,,, especially from an adult. A camera is a tool. There is no perfect tool... Just select the best tool for the job you need it to do... Shift happens. deal with it.

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