DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing

Started Sep 10, 2013 | Discussions
jim stirling
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to boggis the cat, Sep 10, 2013

boggis the cat wrote:

jim stirling wrote:

boggis the cat wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Because we all know dpr is the only review worth reading...

Yeah, we know if you want to read something very objective about Olympus, there's always Robin Wong to the rescue

So you're going to save some more money, Ricardo?

What with the E-M1 clearly being rubbish.

The E-M1 is clearly an excellent camera

Well, I wouldn't go that far just yet.

It is only "excellent" if it focuses myHG lenses properly. You know how these forums work, Jim.

this does not change the fact that Robin Wong { who produces lovely images} is an Olympus infomercial maker .

As he states on his blog, he is an Olympus Malaysia employee. Since he's up front about that you can take that into consideration.

He was, IMO, spot on about the E-5

I am not so sure that the E-5 has soul I sure hope it didn't have feelings as it has been much maligned

Jim

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Oly500Enew
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Re: Don't just listen to DPR...
In reply to Julian_K, Sep 10, 2013

Thanks for adding some RL opinion and rationality here.

Julian_K wrote:

There are many more sources than just DPR:

"I had the opportunity to try an E-5 (itself no slouch at AF speeds) side by side against the E-M1 with the same lenses: I don’t see any difference in focusing speeds or ability to jump quickly and decisively to different subject distances. This is a huge bonus for legacy 4/3 system users: all your glass is now usable at normal speed again, and the new body is both more capable and smaller than the outgoing one. For M4/3 users, there may not be quite so much excitement about use of 4/3 lenses – until you start looking for high grade special purpose glass like the 50-200 SWD, 150/2, or the 90-250/2.8…"

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/09/10/olympus-om-d-e-m1-review-1/

"We tested the EM5 with both Micro Four Thirds lenses and Four Thirds lenses. We don’t really know all the technicalities of the autofocus, but somehow or another the Four Thirds lenses focus super quick–faster than they did on the E5. Micro Four Thirds lenses also focus quite fast. Part of this is due to Phase Detection AF in the camera.

Micro Four Thirds lenses will be able to use a larger area of focusing than Four Thirds lenses will be able to. For the most part, the Four Thirds lens focusing area is all in the center–just like a full frame DSLR.

In our uses with Four Thirds lenses, focusing in low light wasn’t so stellar–but we were shooting fireworks."

http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2013/9/9/olympus-om-d-e-m1-hands-on-preview.html

"I just HAD to give the new dual focus site system (both phase detect and contrast detect on the sensor) a run for its money so I spent a few hours with a friend and his E-5 and slew of 4/3 lenses to do a side by side comparison of focusing speeds and hit count. We picked some objects in his back yard to shoot. Things like bird houses, planters, and other stationary objects of varying size,shape, and color. Things that would be both easy and tough to get a focus on. Let me get off subject for one second. The 50-200mm SWD handled wonderfully on this NON-Gripped camera just so you know.

With the OM-D-E-M1 we both noticed (un-scientificaly) that it focused, get this, FASTER than with the E-5!! Again, no stopwatches or tools like that to measure down to the millisecond, but it was something we both felt was a noticeable speed difference. The same with the 4/3 50mm f/2 macro! The 12-60mm SWD seemed to be a draw. But something else to note, there were several times when we got a more accurate focus using the 50-200mm than with the E-5. Slight differences in depth at which focus was hit. Again, we weren’t trying to be DPReview or anything, just two guys who know their Olympus gear."

http://www.smallcamerabigpicture.com/om-d_e-m1/

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goblin
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to Darrell500, Sep 10, 2013

QUESTION:

Am I the only one to notice that the results in the studio setup, when E-M1 and E-M5 (at 200 iso) are consistently worse on the E-M1 ? Especially on the sides ? Lower right comes to mind.

Could it be a lens problem, which would affect AF as well ? Or is their verdict valid for all the lenses they tested ?

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Raist3d
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Re: Wait, what?!!!!
In reply to CharlesB58, Sep 10, 2013

CharlesB58 wrote:

dave gaines wrote:

I just logged in to see the news. I feel your pain Darrell. I'm empathetic to your cause. I feel betrayed. Some day soon I'll have 10 excellent HG and SHG lenses to sell.

Only a fool or the insane would buy into another system from Olympus and expect a different end game.

Why didn't Raist3d, CharlesB58 and the others warn us?

OK, W- T - F. What you mean I didn't warn you? I did. Hell all along. Were you so denialist that you completely blocked out what I have been saying all along? Take some responsibility for yourself!

I said 4/3rds was dead for a while. Or you mean specifically 4/3rds AF on m4/3rds?

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I think Dave is being facetious as a few of us have expressed our doubts about continuing th E line.

On the other hand a couple of the reviewers state that there is an E7 on the way, while others say there isn't. So right now I think we have to slog through yet more vagueries and balderdash.

No, we know. It's done. There is no handful reviewers stating an E7 is coming.

The EM1 is a much hoped for camera for me (though lack of a silent electronic shutter is a disappointment and apparently focus peaking may not work with legacy lenses), but I respect that it is not a best solution for everyone.

But then I've never said it would be.
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Raist3d
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to boggis the cat, Sep 10, 2013

boggis the cat wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

boggis the cat wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Because we all know dpr is the only review worth reading...

Yeah, we know if you want to read something very objective about Olympus, there's always Robin Wong to the rescue

So you're going to save some more money, Ricardo?

What with the E-M1 clearly being rubbish.

Lol, where in any shape or form did I imply the EM-1 "is rubbish" - been saying quite the opposite actually

Yes, I can think the E-M1 is an excellent camera even if 4/3rds AF is not quite up there and Robin Wong is still very Olympus biased Those are different independent points, right?

Just think how much money you could have been saving if Olympus had made the E-M1 US$1700 like the E-5.

Nah, you are simply not making sense

My guess is you can blame the E-M5 for selling so well that they recouped their initial R&D and could lower the MSRP on the E-M1.

Nah, that doesn't make sense

If you look at it from that perspective, Olympus have basically cost you at least US$300 in savings, Ricardo. And another US$300 by selling that 12-40 f/2 for US$1000 instead of US$1300.

Again, you are not making any sense, even joking! Imagine that  I even put my price for the camera at $1,500, and camera with kit at $2k-$2,500 range.  Was hardly off

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ppotka
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Re: One reason for some disappointment after all: No focus peaking w/ legacy lenses
In reply to Danielvr, Sep 10, 2013

Danielvr wrote:

Years ago when Oly put a focus indication LED in some Fourthirds models, we were disappointed to find that it was disabled for non-system lenses (that is: those without Fourthirds compatible electrical contacts).

Well, now we have focus peaking (i.e. in-focus areas are shown blinking, a great focussing tool especially with manual lenses), but again this has been disabled for non-system lenses, where it would be the most useful!

Source: hands-on test video by TheCameraStoreTV (http://youtu.be/ESOj56fWB8Q?t=10m52s)

They have got only half of it... Without electric contacts the body of course does not know if you are turning focusing ring or not. However peaking can be engaged via any of configurable buttons. Now the EVF shows peaking and when you press shutter button half way it disappers.

-p-

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CollBaxter
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to goblin, Sep 10, 2013

I noticed the E-M1 shoots where a bit brighter than the E-M5 and had less contrast.

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Re: I've used it, DPR are out to lunch on this ....
In reply to Doug Brown, Sep 10, 2013

DPR is certainly alone with their lukewarm comments - every other hands on reviewer (or previewer) is very enthusiastic so far.

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sirharold
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to Darrell500, Sep 10, 2013

I use two E-3 bodies with SHG optics for sporting events. I have waited for Olympus to come out with a better DSLR with faster AF and ISO. That's it nothing more just improve on the weak parts of the E-3 E-5. After reading the DPReview it looks like the M-1 will not be the choice for Olympus sport shooters. I could be wrong if anyone can correct me please do. It also looks like you cannot use your EC-14 or EC-20 with the M-1. I'm looking forward to hear from those who have been able to get some hands shooting with a 35-100mm - 150mm.

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Danielvr
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Re: One reason for some disappointment after all: No focus peaking w/ legacy lenses
In reply to ppotka, Sep 10, 2013

They have got only half of it... Without electric contacts the body of course does not know if you are turning focusing ring or not. However peaking can be engaged via any of configurable buttons. Now the EVF shows peaking and when you press shutter button half way it disappers.

Hei Pekka, thanks! So, just to be sure, does this manual engagement of focus peaking also work with old manual lenses? (would be great if it does!)

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DaveTG
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to sirharold, Sep 10, 2013
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ppotka
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Re: One reason for some disappointment after all: No focus peaking w/ legacy lenses
In reply to Danielvr, Sep 10, 2013

Yes, with any lens. Actually even without an attached lens, if you happen to find some use for that... Like projecting an image into camera, on sensor.

-p-

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CharlesB58
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to nyfalls, Sep 10, 2013

nyfalls wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

I read a couple other reviews that said focus was comparable, and one even said it was faster than the E5. Yep, we're going to have to compare various reviews as methodology can vary quite a bit.

Those are not reviews. They are previews in which people are repeating what the Olympus press materials say "as good, if not better."

Best we can hope is that DPReview didn't have the focus setting right. They may be using it in Hybrid or CDAF mode, when it probably should be PDAF mode only for legacy lenses.

I still need a new body for my 12-60, so I may pick it up, but after seeing Olympus is still playing catch-up with this new model (wow, an EM5 that focuses old lenses) I'm glad I moved on to a brand that can actually focus moving objects.

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Actually, they are hands on previews of the camera. Both written blogs and video reviews.

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Lab D
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I worry they are right
In reply to Darrell500, Sep 10, 2013

while I don't always need super fast focusing it comes in handy.   I was hoping this camera would bring me back to Olympus.

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CharlesB58
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Re: Wait, what?!!!!
In reply to Doug Brown, Sep 10, 2013

Doug Brown wrote:

There will be no E7.

They protoyped an E7, sent around to a group of pros and enthusiast photographers to compare with E-M1, and the E-M1 won the face-off convincingly. Plans to produce an E7 were cancelled at that point.

The shutter has the E-P5's finesse about it. Very quiet and a pleasant sound. I shoot people with the E-P5 and they are barely aware I've pressed the shutter release.

Douglas Brown

Thanks for the update Doug. I suspected such would be the case (it's a standard practice when developing two product lines). That's why I made my post pointing out how most the the 2013 Olympus Visionaries use primarily m4/3 gear. These are just the sort of pros that Olympus would hand both prototypes to and ask them to provide detailed feedback as to which camera they preferred, and why.

From my earliest involvement in photography, I've known cameras,especially any aspiring to "pro" status, were developed with considerable input from pros and experienced photographers. I knew a pro who was involved in prototype evaluation of the Nikon F3. He said that Nikon originally intended the camera to have multiple auto exposure modes a la the Canon A-1, and most pros disliked the idea. Many were even reticent over the F3 having aperture priority AE. Nikon pros back then tended to be rather conservative.

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goblin
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Re: DPR Says If Coming From E-3/5 You'll Be Dissapointed In Focusing
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 10, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

I noticed the E-M1 shoots where a bit brighter than the E-M5 and had less contrast.

Indeed ! But not only. Have you checked the lower right ?

Look at the "Reeves medium yellow" paint tube, or the "Reeves viridian" something next to it, on the right. The E-M1 ones seem to be lacking, big time. At all ISO settings. There's something fishy here. Even the E-PL5 is supposed to do better than the E-M5, what to say about the E-M1... I do suspect some sort of hicup with the studio setting, camera sample, lens sample or all.

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: I've used it, DPR are out to lunch on this ....
In reply to Doug Brown, Sep 11, 2013

Doug Brown wrote:

Danielvr wrote:

Years ago when Oly put a focus indication LED in some Fourthirds models, we were disappointed to find that it was disabled for non-system lenses (that is: those without Fourthirds compatible electrical contacts).

Well, now we have focus peaking (i.e. in-focus areas are shown blinking, a great focussing tool especially with manual lenses), but again this has been disabled for non-system lenses, where it would be the most useful!

Source: hands-on test video by TheCameraStoreTV (http://youtu.be/ESOj56fWB8Q?t=10m52s)

I too have used it hands on and the E-M1 is as fast as an E5, or so close to as fast as an E5 that the difference isn't worth talking about.
DPR are out to lunch with that 'live view' comment. The E-M1 is much, much better than any live view DSLR I've ever used. Far better than any Olympus camera you may have used in live view. There just isn't any comparison.

I was using it with the 4/3's 14-35mm f2 lens in dim lighting indoors. This is a lens that has a reputation for twitchy AF performance and I found I couldn't make it miss. Dark shadows, reflective surfaces, close to distant, distant to close, it just did the job.

I told them I was buying one right after that : )

By the end of the demo I told them I wanted two of them.

Pekka's comments are closer to the truth regarding AF.

Douglas Brown

Certainly good to have your input, Doug. You've been known to have taken a decent shot now and then.

Don't see this cited upthread, so here's Ian Burley's take at FT User, after a couple weeks' hands-on.

Undoubtedly for many E-System DSLR users who have been waiting for a very long time for the E-M1 the top question will be - how well does the new camera work with Four Thirds DSLR lenses. The good news is that problems using these lenses on Micro Four Thirds cameras, including slow and sometimes inaccurate autofocusing, can now be forgotten. Under most circumstances the E-M1 focuses Four Thirds lenses normally and perhaps even faster than an Olympus E-5. We have been using lenses like the Zuiko Digital 300mm f/2.8, 90-250mm f/2.8, 150mm f/2.0 and the 50-200 f/2.8-3.5 SWD photographing birds in flight (BIF) perhaps the ultimate challenge for an autofocus system, and as you will discover in our sample image gallery on page 2 of this article we have been able to get some excellent results. We have also been enjoying the use of Micro Four Thirds lenses chasing birds as well thanks to the E-M1's PDAF support in continuous focus (C-AF). The E-M1 is at least as good as an E-5 and we honestly feel that overall it is actually better thanks to the 26 additional focus points and improved predictive focus and subject tracking algorithms. The E-M1 is not top in class but it is a very respectable performer in action photography conditions, well-aided by up to 6.5 frames per second continuous shooting while continuously focusing.

http://fourthirds-user.com/2013/09/olympus_omd_em1_handson_preview.php

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet. This could yet be the "it" camera.

Cheers,

Rick

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Jan Chelminski
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Thanks.....why am I not surprised......
In reply to Doug Brown, Sep 11, 2013

Been on these forums since the E-10 days, just sayin....

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Doug Brown
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Re: I've used it, DPR are out to lunch on this ....
In reply to Skeeterbytes, Sep 11, 2013

Thanks for that additional point of view.

I think maybe someone in the DPReview testing lab got the E-M5 and E-M1 mixed up with that AF comment  ; )

Douglas Brown

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Digirame
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Re: I feel your pain man, I'm dissapointed too
In reply to dave gaines, Sep 11, 2013

Dave, I didn't know for sure, but about a year and half ago, I decided to try another brand with kit lenses (after reading the reviews).  It was just feeling that I had that Olympus was not going to progress with the DSLR line of cameras.  I didn't give up my Olympus equipment, but I thought it would be worthwhile to try something else.  It was very beneficial for me, for what I could afford.

Don't feel betrayed or upset; it's just the ups and downs of life.  If you see a 18mp, 20mp or 24mp camera (or whatever) with a lens or two (after reading the reviews), go ahead and venture into another world...go buy it and have fun taking high resolution pictures at ISO12800 etc. and all sorts of other neat things.

There's rumors that Canon is testing a 75 to 80mp DSLR camera (it is probably going to be expensive).  When you have more than one brand, you have more opportunities for the next upgrade.  Olympus may come around in the future, but presently I'm not waiting so I can keep taking pictures with more up-to-date DSLR equipment.

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