The F2.8 choice, 12-40mm vs 12-35mm

Started Sep 9, 2013 | Discussions
naftade
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Re: 12-35mm (24-70mm FF) FoV is pretty much standard.
In reply to drj3, Sep 9, 2013

drj3 wrote:

Cipher wrote:

drj3 wrote:

bluelemmy wrote:

> whereas the 12-35 takes a 58mm filter.

As do the 35-100 f2.8 and the 14-140mm f3.5-5.6. A very professional move on the part of Panasonic.

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David
www.dthorpe.net

I am certain that if Olympus wanted to offer a 12-35mm lens they could have used a 58mm filter. It has nothing to do with being professional. Panasonic chose a more limited zoom range design which allowed them to use a smaller front element for the lens.

Panasonic offered 12-35mm because it gives the same FoV as:

Nikon 24-70mm

Canon 24-70mm

Sigma 24-70mm

Sony 24-70mm

Tamron 24-70mm

The 24-70 FoV is pretty much a standard and so is 70-200mm FoV and thus we have the Panasonic 35-100mm.

The fact that there are lots of 24-70mm equivalents is of no importance to me, if the 24-80mm equivalent has equal quality, is essentially the same size and price then I would find it to be more useful. If the new 40-150 equals the 35-100 Panasonic then I would prefer the extra flexibility that combination offers. Actually I will probably prefer my 12-60mm 2.8-4 (24-120), since the extra zoom range means that I do not need to change lenses as often and assuming it focuses well on the EM-1, it will probably be the lens I use most often.

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drj3

This 12-60 really is a very interesting lens (combined with a 43 or mft - hybrid camera). But it is a little  bigger than the 12-40 isn't it?

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Silvernitrate
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Re: Two reasons why I'll probably buy the 12-35mm
In reply to NZ Scott, Sep 9, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

ntsan wrote:

So the spec for 12-40mm has been out

M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-40mm F2.8 PRO
- Linear motor, MSC mechanism, AF inner focus
- Manual focus clutch mechanism
- 20cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.3 times, 35mm equivalent 0.6 times) throughout the entire zoom range
- Dust-proof drip
- Filter size: 62mm
- Total length: 84mm, maximum diameter 69.9mm
- Weight: 382g
- late November release

Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8
- 25cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.17 times, 35mm equivalent 0.34 times)
- Weathersealed
- Filter size: 58mm
- Total length: 73.8mm, maximum diameter 67.6mm
- Weight: 305g

12-40mm being being more larger/heavier than 12-35mm and come without OIS, should make Pana user and maybe some Oly user sticking with 12-35mm instead for the size and without looking ridiculous on their camera.

Though the magnification of 12-40 screams Macro to me, that is even higher than Voigtlander's 0.25x/0.5x magnificaiton which I found to be plentiful for my need without getting dedicated Macro lens.

I've held off buying a pro zoom until now, as I've been waiting to see what Oly will bring to the table to compete with Panny's 12-35 and 35-100.

Even though I'm an Olympus shooter, I'll probably end up buying the Panny 12-35 based on these specs.

There are two main reasons for this:

1) The Oly is 77g heavier, which is a significant amount.

2) Its filter size is 62mm, whereas the 12-35 takes a 58mm filter. I already own several 58mm filters, as they are compatible with my Oly 40-150 ED and Oly 75-300 II. I'm a big filter user, and am a bit annoyed at Oly's inconsistency with filter sizes. They are using 37mm, 46mm, 58mm and now 62mm. There may even be other sizes - for example, the original kit lens used a different filter size, I think.

The price is about the same, at US $900 via ebay. The Oly supposedly has better image quality, but this is of secondary importance for me, as the 12-35 is apparently already good enough. I can't imagine that the 12-40 will be dramatically better.

S.

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Same here I`ve held off from buying the Pany 12-35mm.

I`d probably wait until I can handle the 12-40mm attached to the EM1, not that I`m currently interested in the new body yet but you never know

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dv312
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choice is clear for me
In reply to ntsan, Sep 9, 2013

the extra 5mm does make lots of difference

Been shooting with the FF 24-70mm and 70mm is just too short for decent portraits

the fact that the Oly focuses closer is a boon

size wise it's still small as compared to the FF 24-70mm

The weight could be due to a more complex lens design

Cheers,

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dennis tennis
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Re: 12-40 ginormous
In reply to ntsan, Sep 9, 2013

with this crowd,  every mm every gram is a huge deal.  Size is everything.  Image is nothing.

12-40 is too big too heavy for normal Navy SEAL operators to use in combat.  You need one of those robots thingy from the movie Pacific Rim

Don't you know smallness is everything to mFT fanboys?

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drj3
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Re: 12-35mm (24-70mm FF) FoV is pretty much standard.
In reply to naftade, Sep 9, 2013

naftade wrote:

drj3 wrote:

Cipher wrote:

drj3 wrote:

bluelemmy wrote:

> whereas the 12-35 takes a 58mm filter.

As do the 35-100 f2.8 and the 14-140mm f3.5-5.6. A very professional move on the part of Panasonic.

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David
www.dthorpe.net

I am certain that if Olympus wanted to offer a 12-35mm lens they could have used a 58mm filter. It has nothing to do with being professional. Panasonic chose a more limited zoom range design which allowed them to use a smaller front element for the lens.

Panasonic offered 12-35mm because it gives the same FoV as:

Nikon 24-70mm

Canon 24-70mm

Sigma 24-70mm

Sony 24-70mm

Tamron 24-70mm

The 24-70 FoV is pretty much a standard and so is 70-200mm FoV and thus we have the Panasonic 35-100mm.

The fact that there are lots of 24-70mm equivalents is of no importance to me, if the 24-80mm equivalent has equal quality, is essentially the same size and price then I would find it to be more useful. If the new 40-150 equals the 35-100 Panasonic then I would prefer the extra flexibility that combination offers. Actually I will probably prefer my 12-60mm 2.8-4 (24-120), since the extra zoom range means that I do not need to change lenses as often and assuming it focuses well on the EM-1, it will probably be the lens I use most often.

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drj3

This 12-60 really is a very interesting lens (combined with a 43 or mft - hybrid camera). But it is a little bigger than the 12-40 isn't it?

It is larger (575g vs 382g) but since I currently use it on an E5, the total lens camera weight would be reduced by 395g if I switched to the EM-1 and use the 12-60.  I may get my wife the EM-1 with the 12-40 if she likes mine.  She does care more about size and weight than I do.

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drj3

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jim stirling
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Re: 12-40 ginormous
In reply to dennis tennis, Sep 9, 2013

dennis tennis wrote:

with this crowd, every mm every gram is a huge deal. Size is everything. Image is nothing.

12-40 is too big too heavy for normal Navy SEAL operators to use in combat. You need one of those robots thingy from the movie Pacific Rim

Don't you know smallness is everything to mFT fanboys?

It may not be everything but for many myself included it is probably the single most important advantage of mFT over other formats. Frankly if you choose to exclude the size and weight of equipment from your system valuation with image quality being your top criteria there are an awful lot of better options available many of which are in fact less expensive.

I own the D800 with a number of excellent lenses and the image quality in every situation is simply better than mFT. However I use my mFT gear far more simply because of the size and weight , if I am going to something where photography is my specific goal then the D800 comes along. For everything else social events/holidays/family etc mFT is my choice. Size and weight are critical points for  mFT users the exchange is a bit poorer image quality for a massive size reduction.

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Anthony Curcione
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Too soon to tell
In reply to ntsan, Sep 9, 2013

I've had the 12-35 on my OMD since the day I bought it.  My only complaints are with CA and distortion (on the wide end).  CA is easy enough to counter in Lightroom although it can sometimes be a pain.  Other than those tidbits, I love the lens.

Depending on test results with the 12-40, I would consider replacing the 12-35 with it, but ONLY if there are significant improvements in the 2 areas above AND if it's at least as sharp as the Panny.  Size and weight difference is negligible especially if it has internal zoom (which I heard it did, but haven't seen that confirmed yet).  Guess we'll see about all that.

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SkiHound
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Re: Panny lens, Oly body
In reply to NZ Scott, Sep 9, 2013

I rented the 12-35 and liked it quite well. I have a Zuiko 12-60 and I think the overall IQ from it is a tad better. It doesn't AF worth a damn on the E-M5 and it's pretty chunky but I've been waiting for Olympus to release something in this class. For me it'll come down to IQ. If the IQ isn't better than the 12-35 I'd probably go with the 12-35. And, if the E-M1 handles lenses like the 12-60 well, I may just buy the body.

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Acrill
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Re: The F2.8 choice, 12-40mm vs 12-35mm
In reply to MarcusBrody, Sep 9, 2013

MarcusBrody wrote:

I have a Panasonic camera now, so I'd be likely to opt for the Panny lens for the OIS.

This is also what I would do. Use the 12-35mm with a Panasonic camera. Yes, future models may have IBIS but it is nice having the option to use less expensive bodies such as a GX1 and still have OIS.

The Olympus 12-40 has a 20cm close-focus distance throughout the zoom range, so it should be very useable as a semi-macro lens.

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sgoldswo
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Re: A small correction or two
In reply to NZ Scott, Sep 9, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

azazel1024 wrote:

Without having used any of the discussed lenses, the Pany 12-35 seems pretty solid, but from what I have seen the 35-100 is a little weak, especially wide open and on the longer end.

I haven't used the lenses for any significant amount of time either (I played with the 12-35 in a shop and was quite impressed), but from what I've read in reviews it's actually the 35-100 which is the stronger performer of the two.

Agreed - the 12-35 is great, but the 35-100 rivals the Oly 75mm for image quality sometimes. It isn't as good at 100mm as it is at 80, but it's still extremely good. Here are two samples

44mm

100mm

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Pikme
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different question for me
In reply to ntsan, Sep 10, 2013

My question will be - does the 12-60 work well enough on EM1 or do I need to buy the 12-40 or 12-35?

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Roberto M.

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Jeff Tokayer
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Re: different question for me
In reply to Pikme, Sep 10, 2013

Pikme wrote:

My question will be - does the 12-60 work well enough on EM1 or do I need to buy the 12-40 or 12-35?

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Roberto M.

I'm willing to take a chance, and order the E-M1 body only. The value of the 12-60 jumped up $100 in value, since the early 12-40 price prediction.

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dv312
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12-60mm
In reply to Pikme, Sep 10, 2013

the 12-60mm is a huge lens compared to the 12-40mm and heavier and you'll need an adapter too

good thing you don't have to buy another lens if you already have it

Remains to be seen whether or not it AF as fast as the 12-40mm

I don't have to think; I sold all my FT lenses a few moons back

Cheers

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NZ Scott
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Re: The weight difference = same as between 14-42 IIR and 40-150 ED
In reply to RealPancho, Sep 10, 2013

RealPancho wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

Zenjitsuman wrote:

77g + 2.71 ounces I doubt you could tell one lens from the other when mounted

on the camera.

The difference between the M. Zuiko 12-42 IIR and the M. Zuiko 40-150 ED is also exactly 77g - and the change in weight is quite noticeable when switching between those two lenses on my E-P3.

Perhaps you are an HSP - Highly Sensitive Photographer.

Seriously, though, do you find that extra weight too ponderous and unwieldy?

No, I don't find it "too ponderous and unwieldy". However, I do find it noticeable.

I was also hoping the 12-40 would be smaller than the 12-35, but I think I'll probably be alright with it.

The E-P5 weighs weighs 15 oz. with battery. The total weight is just

over one pound. Weighs less than my gym water bottle that I carry around all the time.

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Zenjitsuman
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Re: different question for me
In reply to Pikme, Sep 10, 2013

I agree with Jim, I carry a Nikon D7100 and some pretty pricey big lenses in my kit only

when I am using my car nearby and going their to take a the D7100 with lens mounted, hanging

from a speed carry, and the other two lenses in pouches hung off my shoulder or in a photovest.

If I am going out and want to just have a small kit, then I use either a Nex 5n with old Leica lenses

or a few cheap Sigma 19 & 30mm lenses, and an old Minolta 35-70mm zoom that was made by

Minolta for Leica R mount when those companies were working on joint ventures.

So sometimes I use a photographers neck strap made by Optech that holds both the Pen and

the Nex 5n, and I have some smaller lenses but still sharp 16mp in low light.

The answer is the size of the lens plus the body, the Nex is in some dimensions smaller

than the Pen is, but not in all measurements.  The Olympus has smaller lenses but a heavier

body.  The P5 has much nicer controls, and good use of the tilt screen, the Nex has both.

One lens I bought that I would like to recommend is the Voigtlander SLII  58mm f/1.4.

My version is in Nikon mount.  Its a FF lens, and I use in on the D7100 body as a portrait

lens, Ditto, with Nikon adapter as portrait lens on Nex.  Its FOV is 87mm on both of those

cameras, its small and because its designed for FF it has little distortion, vignetting or soft corners

mounted on APS-C.

I suppose since its a pretty expensive lens it should be also used as a super fast 116mm lens

on the Olympus P5 as a long portrait lens.  With in body image stabilization and fast aperture

its a perfect lens for this purpose.  Focus peaking is very good on both the Olympus and Nex

and manual control on the P5 is especially convenient.  The lens has an aperture ring and the most

smooth focus you can find.

I like (have)  the Leica/Pany 25mm f1.4 and the Olympus 45mm f1.8 so for me the 12-40mm would

be nice if it had good IQ at 12mm otherwise its not a good lens for landscape.

I don't hear great things about the fast 12mm f2 lens, barrel distortion and soft, not good for

landscapes.  Can you guys tell me what to use for equivalent of 24mm on a 35mm format for

landscapes.   On my Nikon I use the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 MkII, very good IQ and fast enough

using ISO 3200 for indoors shots without flash.

One more comment, I go to a gym and use dumbbell curls 35 -45lbs. 3x 10 reps.  so 2 or 4 oz.

more or less I don't notice, can't understand this being a big deal.  Its the size of the total package

lens + body that drew me to use a Leica rangefinder for decades.  That is why I ain't interested

in FF DSLR, not their weight but their size with FF lenses.

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Gregm61
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Re: Panny lens, Oly body
In reply to NZ Scott, Sep 10, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

Gregm61 wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

ntsan wrote:

So the spec for 12-40mm has been out

M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-40mm F2.8 PRO
- Linear motor, MSC mechanism, AF inner focus
- Manual focus clutch mechanism
- 20cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.3 times, 35mm equivalent 0.6 times) throughout the entire zoom range
- Dust-proof drip
- Filter size: 62mm
- Total length: 84mm, maximum diameter 69.9mm
- Weight: 382g
- late November release

Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8
- 25cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.17 times, 35mm equivalent 0.34 times)
- Weathersealed
- Filter size: 58mm
- Total length: 73.8mm, maximum diameter 67.6mm
- Weight: 305g

12-40mm being being more larger/heavier than 12-35mm and come without OIS, should make Pana user and maybe some Oly user sticking with 12-35mm instead for the size and without looking ridiculous on their camera.

Though the magnification of 12-40 screams Macro to me, that is even higher than Voigtlander's 0.25x/0.5x magnificaiton which I found to be plentiful for my need without getting dedicated Macro lens.

I've held off buying a pro zoom until now, as I've been waiting to see what Oly will bring to the table to compete with Panny's 12-35 and 35-100.

Even though I'm an Olympus shooter, I'll probably end up buying the Panny 12-35 based on these specs.

There are two main reasons for this:

1) The Oly is 77g heavier, which is a significant amount.

2) Its filter size is 62mm, whereas the 12-35 takes a 58mm filter. I already own several 58mm filters, as they are compatible with my Oly 40-150 ED and Oly 75-300 II. I'm a big filter user, and am a bit annoyed at Oly's inconsistency with filter sizes. They are using 37mm, 46mm, 58mm and now 62mm. There may even be other sizes - for example, the original kit lens used a different filter size, I think.

The price is about the same, at US $900 via ebay. The Oly supposedly has better image quality, but this is of secondary importance for me, as the 12-35 is apparently already good enough. I can't imagine that the 12-40 will be dramatically better.

I just picked up the Panny 12-35 to use with my E-M5 for some upcoming trips and events where I knew the 12-40 Olympus would not yet be available. The 12-35 balances beautifully on a grip less E-M5 and the image quality is excellent.

That's good to hear.

I played with a 12-35 in a shop a couple of weeks ago, mounted on my E-P3 with large grip. I liked the handling of the lens. The length was okay and it didn't feel as heavy as I expected it would.

It is an excellent compromise of size vs. speed and quality.

Some reviews say that CA is a problem with the 12-35 lens on Olympus bodies, which would mean a few extra clicks in post. I find CA to be annoying because I often forget to correct it - only to notice it again later when viewing the finished product.

That's happened to me more than once or twice.

I just check the CA book on every image in ACR, but a few files also require using the sliders for even stronger corrections. If there's any area of high contrast in the image, I just know there's going to be something there to correct.

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sbszine
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12-40 for sure
In reply to ntsan, Sep 10, 2013

Just for the Lfn button.

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GlennAA11
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Re: Two reasons why I'll probably buy the 12-35mm
In reply to NZ Scott, Sep 10, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

GlennAA11 wrote:

Does the Oly have an on-sale date yet?

Yes - late November.

Has it even been officially announced?

It will be officially announced later today (Tuesday, 6am, London time).

And is this 40-150mm f2.8 talk substantiated somewhere or just wishful thinking?

It is "substantiated" in terms of being confirmed by 43rumours.com. Make of that what you will, but they seem pretty sure of themselves about this one. Supposedly, it will ship (or at the very least be announced) by the end of March.

S

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Thanks.

Bummer it's not going to be out until then. I am headed to Asia in about 6 weeks so now I am in a bit of a quandry. I was heading towards the Panny 35-100 2.8 and considering the 12-35 2.8 as a nice travel kit with my OM-D. But it's a lot of cash to lay out if the Olympus options will be out in the medium term....

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NZ Scott
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Tell me about it!
In reply to GlennAA11, Sep 10, 2013

GlennAA11 wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

GlennAA11 wrote:

Does the Oly have an on-sale date yet?

Yes - late November.

Has it even been officially announced?

It will be officially announced later today (Tuesday, 6am, London time).

And is this 40-150mm f2.8 talk substantiated somewhere or just wishful thinking?

It is "substantiated" in terms of being confirmed by 43rumours.com. Make of that what you will, but they seem pretty sure of themselves about this one. Supposedly, it will ship (or at the very least be announced) by the end of March.

S

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Thanks.

Bummer it's not going to be out until then. I am headed to Asia in about 6 weeks so now I am in a bit of a quandry. I was heading towards the Panny 35-100 2.8 and considering the 12-35 2.8 as a nice travel kit with my OM-D. But it's a lot of cash to lay out if the Olympus options will be out in the medium term....

Tell me about it!

In a couple of weeks I'm heading off to the Middle East and Africa for a three-month backpacking trip, including two months on safari. It won't be possible to get hold of an E-M1 or 12-40 by then.

I'll be shooting with an E-P3, a bunch of primes, and the 75-300 II.

Which part of Asia will you be visiting?

S

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Optical1
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When the 40-150/F2.8 is announced...
In reply to ntsan, Sep 10, 2013

ntsan wrote:

So the spec for 12-40mm has been out

M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-40mm F2.8 PRO
- Linear motor, MSC mechanism, AF inner focus
- Manual focus clutch mechanism
- 20cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.3 times, 35mm equivalent 0.6 times) throughout the entire zoom range
- Dust-proof drip
- Filter size: 62mm
- Total length: 84mm, maximum diameter 69.9mm
- Weight: 382g
- late November release

Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8
- 25cm minimum focusing distance (maximum magnification of 0.17 times, 35mm equivalent 0.34 times)
- Weathersealed
- Filter size: 58mm
- Total length: 73.8mm, maximum diameter 67.6mm
- Weight: 305g

12-40mm being being more larger/heavier than 12-35mm and come without OIS, should make Pana user and maybe some Oly user sticking with 12-35mm instead for the size and without looking ridiculous on their camera.

Though the magnification of 12-40 screams Macro to me, that is even higher than Voigtlander's 0.25x/0.5x magnificaiton which I found to be plentiful for my need without getting dedicated Macro lens.

I'm interested in the 12-40, but only when the lens "set" is available. I currently have the 7-14, 12-35 and 35-100 which is a very functional cohesive set of lenses. I likely won't purchase until at least the 40-150/F2.8 is announced. The problem with a mixed set of lenses is the difference in zoom/focus direction between Oly/Panny. Honestly, I wish that had been agreed to as a part of the standard...

I'm very happy with my panny "holy trinity", but if the Olympus offers better image quality, it will be hard to ignore - especially with the added range. My only hope is that the 40-150/F2.8 is small enough to compare with the 35-100 - even if it had to be a 40-150/F2.8-4 lens (maintaining F2.8 from 40-100 at a minimum).

No matter what, I'm excited to see what the E-M1 has to offer...

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