Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
cwathington
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

In practice, with FF you are often stopping down for sharpness or for more DOF. So while there's less, "Even with very fast lenses it is hard to separate the subject from the background," isn't true. Here's an example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prischadfamily/8251088711/

There are certain situations where you're not going to get much separation, but it's not true in general.

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Sergey_Green
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It is more what you are used to ..
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, 7 months ago

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

I shoot at 4:3 because I think it provides a much more attractive format than 3:2. In PP I sometimes crop to 16|:9 or 16:10. I never use 3:2. I have a 4:3 screen I may end up with a 16:9, I am never going to have 3:2 Surely 3:2 is the only format that will always give you black bits whatever screen you use. I think 3:2 is obsolete.

Rather than what you think obsolete is. I used to crop D200 frames to 4/3 when I first had it, and I can not find a single reason why I did this when I see those frames again. Funny that you bring this up.

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Vlad S
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4:3 ratio
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

I'm wondering how many people really shoot at 4:3 today and why.

If you print, then 4:3 is closer to more standard mat sizes than 3:2. 4:3 also looks more balanced in portrait orientation.

Vlad

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s_grins
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Re: 4:3 ratio
In reply to Vlad S, 7 months ago

Vlad S wrote:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

I'm wondering how many people really shoot at 4:3 today and why.

If you print, then 4:3 is closer to more standard mat sizes than 3:2. 4:3 also looks more balanced in portrait orientation.

Vlad

True

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Sergey_Green
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Depeds on which size you print ..
In reply to Vlad S, 7 months ago

Vlad S wrote:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

I'm wondering how many people really shoot at 4:3 today and why.

If you print, then 4:3 is closer to more standard mat sizes than 3:2. 4:3 also looks more balanced in portrait orientation.

For framing, the 1.3 is actually less common than 1.5, or closer to 1.5 aspect ratios.

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Sergey_Green
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In practice .
In reply to cwathington, 7 months ago

cwathington wrote:

In practice, with FF you are often stopping down for sharpness or for more DOF.

In practice I would think it is better to have both options available, and not just only one, don't you think ?

So while there's less, "Even with very fast lenses it is hard to separate the subject from the background," isn't true. Here's an example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prischadfamily/8251088711/

There are certain situations where you're not going to get much separation, but it's not true in general.

Voigtländer f/0.95 is not a very common in most shooters' bags lens, and it is only an f/2 if compared to an FF camera. The f/1.4 lenses on the other hand are rather ubiquitous, and in many cases they are not even expensive. So I do not know what you mean by 'in general', but it does sound like exactly the opposite to what general usually is.

Of course it is possible to isolate your subject with a phone cam, but in general this is not usually true .

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cwathington
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Re: In practice .
In reply to Sergey_Green, 7 months ago

He said with "fast lens." That's what I mean. Let me restate itthis way: In general, with fast lens on the m43 system, it is not difficult to achieve subject isolation via DOF. The bokeh may be less blurred and dreamy, but it's still there in most situations. It is not "difficult" per the OP's suggestion in his blog.

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Cane
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

Nice review. Lack of dof is what's held me off m4/3. I don't buy any of the arguments for greater dof. It's a crutch to excuse it away I think. I don't want P&S dof photo's.

You mention it's great for shooting kids. If you try and not keep everything within 100 yards in focus, how is it tracking moving kids?

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tjuster1
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to DElliott, 7 months ago

DElliott wrote:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

Thank you. Maybe I'm stupid but why should I loose image quality when I use only part of the sensor?

I loose some resolution but otherwise there should be any penalty. Am I wrong?

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Essentially it's just cropping the photo, and thus, like you say, reducing the available resolution. But it won't impact image quality in any other way.

Actually, you can turn it on its head to: you could criticize a FF camera for having to crop it's native aspect ratio to get to 4:3. There's nothing magical about 3:2.

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Abrak
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to tjuster1, 7 months ago

I like 4:3 although that is probably just me getting used to a 4:3 sensor.

1) If I want 3:2 it gives me more 'cropping' room.

2) To me, when shooting 'portrait' as opposed to 'landscape' I prefer 4:3 with 3:2 looking too narrow.

3) 10 x 8 is probably the 'print size' I use the most and 4:3 needs less crop than 3:2

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Bob Meyer
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Fair "review", except for DOF comments
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

I mean, really, you use a slow zoom and complain you can't get shallow DOF.  Put a slow kit zoom on and APS-C camera and the differences are slight. Try m43 with a 45mm f/1.8, or a 25 f/1.4, or the long end of the 35-100 f/2.8 and you can get DOF that's usably shallow in most situations.

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Bob Meyer
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Faster than most DSLRs
In reply to Cane, 7 months ago

Cane wrote:

Nice review. Lack of dof is what's held me off m4/3. I don't buy any of the arguments for greater dof. It's a crutch to excuse it away I think. I don't want P&S dof photo's.

You mention it's great for shooting kids. If you try and not keep everything within 100 yards in focus, how is it tracking moving kids?

There are two separate tests that have been posted in this forum showing the G6 is faster in C-AF than pretty much all the consumer level DSLRs. "Slow" AF is no longer a reason to avoide m43.

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Bob Meyer
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Re: Depeds on which size you print ..
In reply to Sergey_Green, 7 months ago

Unless you're shooting for publication, you should compose and crop to fit your subject matter, not some arbitrary size determined by painters 500 years ago.

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T3
T3
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Accept the facts. Everything has its pros and cons.
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 7 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

You pretty much lost me when you quoted the classic FF addict's lament ... with a 4/3" sensor it is hard to separate the subject from the background.

A nonsense statement without all sorts of qualifications ...

Well, how about this as a qualification: for the same lens aperture, same framing, and same subject/focus distance, m4/3 makes it harder to separate the subject from the background because it has greater DOF compared to FF.  I don't know why some people simply can't accept that.  I use FF and APS-C, but I also use m4/3.  The difference in DOF, background blur, subject isolation is quite obvious, especially when doing side by side comparisons when framing the same shot and using the same aperture.  Heck, the difference is obvious even when comparing FF vs APS-C!  But you face the facts, make your choices, and get on with your life.  I love m4/3 because of its very compact size, so when it comes to minimal size, m4/3 is better.  But when I want maximum background blur and subject isolation, FF is better,

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peevee1
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

Thank you Sean and DElliot. It confirms what I thought.

I understand that the 4:3 ratio gave the name to the whole system but I'm wondering how many people really shoot at 4:3 today and why.

Every scene has its own optimal ratio for the desired composition - including as much as you want in the picture and excluding as much as you don't want. I don't like to waste my time cropping in post, so use whatever is available on E-M5, from 1:1 to 16:9 (3:4 is only for 1.33x "digital zoom" when my FL is too short but 2x is too long, otherwise 4:3 turned 90 degrees works better). And I wouldn't mind 2:1 sometimes.

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Scott Mac
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Ignoramus
In reply to Cane, 7 months ago

Cane wrote:

Nice review. Lack of dof is what's held me off m4/3. I don't buy any of the arguments for greater dof. It's a crutch to excuse it away I think. I don't want P&S dof photo's.

A breathtakingly ignorant statement.

m43 cameras do not lack "dof". In fact, they have twice as much depth of field as full frame cameras (assuming the same lens is fixed to each).

S.

You mention it's great for shooting kids. If you try and not keep everything within 100 yards in focus, how is it tracking moving kids?

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dennis tennis
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Re: 4:3 is special
In reply to Manip16, 7 months ago

Manip16 wrote:

I think that was a well written, accurate, and overall worth reading review. Only small note I might have added is that using anything other than 4:3 on a 4:3 camera will cause IQ loss for obvious reasons.

Correctl,

God has given 4/3 lens unique qualities.  Put the best non-4/3 lens  and they will not compare to the lowliest 4/3 kit lenses.

That is just the way it is.  Accept it and bow down to the superiority of FT and mFT./

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Cane
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Re: Ignoramus
In reply to Scott Mac, 7 months ago

Cane wrote:

Nice review. Lack of dof is what's held me off m4/3. I don't buy any of the arguments for greater dof. It's a crutch to excuse it away I think. I don't want P&S dof photo's.

A breathtakingly ignorant statement.

m43 cameras do not lack "dof". In fact, they have twice as much depth of field as full frame cameras (assuming the same lens is fixed to each).

S.

You mention it's great for shooting kids. If you try and not keep everything within 100 yards in focus, how is it tracking moving kids?

I meant a lack of dof control. Keep up and use your cognitive reading skills.

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ThePhilips
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Re: So let's call the fact as an advantage ;) ..
In reply to Sergey_Green, 7 months ago

Sergey_Green wrote:

ThePhilips wrote:

3. If you are not in close up or street photography there is still a strong point for more DOF: when taking pictures of kids or pictures of more people. With a full frame DSLR you need to stop down to make sure that all persons are in focus. It happened to me a couple of times that I shot at f2.8 just to find out that the second face is out of focus.

[...] A perfect sensor is of no use if the image is not in focus. [...]

*Nod*.

People routinely forget about this important difference: larger DOF also means less OOF shots. And even some OOFs are still good for web resolutions.

Many years ago I went with Oly 43 cams and the larger DOF was one of the major reason. Now, without much thought, I'm too buying into the m43.

Because you simply do not have any other option, and you won't forget.

I'm not sure what you are implying. I can easily afford FF cams/lenses. I can also afford most of the MF stuff. But I simply do not want.

Otherwise, thanks for reminding me why I keep you in the ignore list. Your pathetic ad hominems haven't changed in years.

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wolfd
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Re: Panasonic G6 mini review from full frame user
In reply to Joachim Gerstl, 7 months ago

Thanks for a very interesting review Joachim. I sounds like an excellent camera.

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