E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses

Started Sep 3, 2013 | Discussions
gskolenda
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to cameron2, Sep 4, 2013

cameron2 wrote:

Macx wrote:

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

Hogwash. Uploading a video out of the EM1 will discard 90% of the quality of the video file. (Same with stills.)

As for this silly thread: People who expect every camera announcement to be "the one" are always going to find something to be disappointed about.

Go out and take some pictures.

Hog wash bull crap, What you fail to understand is that this Thread is about the short comings of the E-M1! It's pathetic how bad the video is considered by Oly. The GH3 is the camera over the E-M1 and the EM5 both in still and definetly video, slight edge to the EM5 in jpegs, but that can be done in post on the GH3 thru raw!. Olympus could have really done well if they would have taken video specs more serious, It's a changing world, the majority of people want both Video and great stills, they are losing sales of lens's that r Great!, and bodies all because of there poor video specs! I don't care what anyone's opinion is if it's the opposite of mine, this is for Olympus!.

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gskolenda
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to sdribetahi, Sep 4, 2013

sdribetahi wrote:

drpoop wrote:

My purpose in posting my disappointment in advance of the announcement is naively hopeful ..... in that, i seem to remember someone pointing out that Oly marketing/development folk sometimes read this specific forum.

I just want people to voice their frustration, I want Olympus to "listen to users" (to quote the tech guy in the leaked video of the EM1) hopefully someone at Olympus hears and an update or a last minute addition of some kind can make it in to the final production model.

Its just such a waste... 5 axis IBIS and poor video options. It makes no sense.

Do you seriously think Oly is going to read your post and quickly call an emergency engineering and marketing meeting to scramble last minute to rethink their specs?

I can see it know (only picture it in Japanese); "OMG, what were we thinking?! This thing is going to go down worse than Mothra against Godzilla if we don't change our video specs". "Wang, I want teams working 24/7 to save us from committing a crime against the buying public worse than our fraud scam". "If we can't give drpoop the video specs he's looking for, I will take the honorable way out. Now where did I put my sword".

You know where!

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CollBaxter
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to drpoop, Sep 4, 2013

If you want a video camera buy a video camera. Or better still a 5DMKIII. Oh but I forgot its to big and its a DSLR and a dodo bird on top of it.

If your definition of a pro camera is a excellent video cam than you are in the wrong forum or wrong site.

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marike6
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to CollBaxter, Sep 4, 2013

CollBaxter wrote:

If you want a video camera buy a video camera.

This is patently false in the sense that today's DSLR and mirrorless cameras produce video that looks as good or better than all but the professional level cinema cameras like the RED, Blackmagic Cinema camera, Sony F5, etc. that are anywhere from $3000-65,000.

The 1990s style camcorder is not going to begin to produce high quality video with any DOF control like a large sensor DSLR or mirrorless.

Or better still a 5DMKIII. Oh but I forgot its to big and its a DSLR and a dodo bird on top of it.

Oh here we go. The 5DMKIII is an excellent camera, and no it's not *too* big for most adult males.  It's when photographers think they need to mount huge pro-caliber f/2.8 zooms in order to make images and look the part.  I use almost all primes - 28-50-85 1.8G on my FF DSLR (and a 70-200 f4 VR) and it's lightweight, easy to handle and offers superb IQ.

That said, you do not need a 5DMkIII (or Nikon equivalent) to produce great looking video as both the Panasonic GH2 and GH3 have some of the best video available.  My GH2, both when it was un-hack and hacked, produces gorgeous video IQ and it has most of the necessary frame rates and a mic jack to mount my Sennheiser shotgun mic.

If your definition of a pro camera is a excellent video cam than you are in the wrong forum or wrong site.

Again, no.  There are tons of great cameras featured on this website that get used in professional shoots.  Most of the better DSLRs, the Canons and the newer Nikons, the Panasonic GH series, Sony's RX100 has some of the very best video quality ever found in it's class of camera.  It produces absolutely stunning IQ and because it offers 1080p60, it is extremely flexible.

All Olympus has to do is add some better frame rates, and raise the bit-rate (lower compression) so that aliasing and artifacts are not too troubling.  The E-M5 produces nice sharp video.  It's just that 30p is not very cinematic looking so it at the very least needs 24p.  1080p60 AVCHD would be great, but that is not likely.  24p seems possible, but not likely.

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PrebenR
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Re: Poppy Cock
In reply to mpgxsvcd, Sep 4, 2013

mpgxsvcd wrote:

m4/3s would die an instant death if either Olympus or Panasonic dropped video all together in ANY of their newest cameras. The majority of people who have bought an m4/3s camera are willing to pay extra for video or m4/3s would not still exist because all but one of their cameras have ever come without video.

Yes, my only interest in m43 is for video, not stills. At least until BlackMagic get their sensors sorted out.

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peevee1
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to Macx, Sep 4, 2013

Macx wrote:

drpoop wrote:

My purpose in posting my disappointment in advance of the announcement is naively hopeful ..... in that, i seem to remember someone pointing out that Oly marketing/development folk sometimes read this specific forum.

I just want people to voice their frustration, I want Olympus to "listen to users" (to quote the tech guy in the leaked video of the EM1) hopefully someone at Olympus hears and an update or a last minute addition of some kind can make it in to the final production model.

Its just such a waste... 5 axis IBIS and poor video options. It makes no sense.

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

I am sorry, but how 24 mbps is not high quality "videography for the web"? Most people, like 99%, don't even have connection that fast, so you will have to compress further.

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Alexis D
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to peevee1, Sep 5, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

Macx wrote:

drpoop wrote:

My purpose in posting my disappointment in advance of the announcement is naively hopeful ..... in that, i seem to remember someone pointing out that Oly marketing/development folk sometimes read this specific forum.

I just want people to voice their frustration, I want Olympus to "listen to users" (to quote the tech guy in the leaked video of the EM1) hopefully someone at Olympus hears and an update or a last minute addition of some kind can make it in to the final production model.

Its just such a waste... 5 axis IBIS and poor video options. It makes no sense.

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

I am sorry, but how 24 mbps is not high quality "videography for the web"? Most people, like 99%, don't even have connection that fast, so you will have to compress further.

This thread is again showing how a very small number of posters can be very loud even though they represent only a few % of the total number of M43 users and also a small % of potential customers who will be buying this E-M1. Their own specific interest is not representative of what is of interest to the vast majority of people who are looking at the E-M1. Most people here do not care about very high quality video.

This is the same with those few who yelled for a E-7. Most people here do not care about 4/3. They do not own and will not buy 4/3 lenses, however good they are. They don't care about heavy DSLRs, that's why they are here. Very very few M43 users care about big expensive lenses from the past.

This is the same with those few who keep yearning and wailing for lenses longer than 300mm here. Most people do not care about such long lenses. 95 % of them shoot most of their photos from 12mm to 150mm. The advantage of a small size M43 is lost with very long lenses that are fast enough to be usable or very long lenses that are not so fast and require tripods.

I think Olympus has shown a lot of good sense this time with the E-M1 and 12-40mm. It gives the camera all those things that the majority wants, addressing the genuine and valid complaints, and not the whims of those with fringe interest. For example, a built-in grip, better size for the controls, 4:3 LCD, microphone input, improvements for HDR, integrating the VF-4, ... , while keeping the size compact unlike the GH3. It even provides a lens hood for the 12-40mm, which is again addressing a popular request for such a high-end zoom lens, while keeping its price reasonable.

Everyone loses? It should be clear only a few people are disappointed and they should just go get the GH3. Everybody else wins.

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James Pilcher
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primary feature set vs. secondary
In reply to Ben Herrmann, Sep 5, 2013

Ben Herrmann wrote:

I agree, although it's a given and fact of life that video is an important part of the digital camera, in particular, m43 cameras. As I replied earlier to another poster in this thread, many of us are primarily still image shooters. I personally am quite satisfied with the HD specs as given above.

Good to hear from you Ben,

I, too, believe the HD specs are remarkably good. They go far far beyond anything I'll ever need or use. I just don't understand why so many people get worked up over the specs for the secondary features in any camera.

Or do I misunderstand? Is it possible that video has become the primary feature set of concern in cameras, particularly among the younger crowd?

Jim Pilcher
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James Pilcher
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point taken
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Sep 5, 2013

Of course, your response is far more rational than my small rant. 

Jim Pilcher
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ryan2007
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses BUT not Panasonic users
In reply to drpoop, Sep 5, 2013

Told the lot over the past few years Panasonic is the better and more innovative micro four thirds system. I get nothing but grief. Of course it made the ignore user list much better.

No one believes me. Many Olympus complaints three off the top on the OMD and the worst complaint about Panasonic was the GH-3's viewfinder.

Simple Panasonic is better then Olympus for what stands today. The GX-7 is not out yet but I assume it will be fine. If not, oh well.

The Panasonic GF-1, GX-1 and GH-3 are all great MFT's cameras. The only issue on the video side is any camera that wants to do video needs external microphone ability.

The GX-7 would be better with a mic input, fully articulating OLED and no moving viewfinder, that is a total waste in a camera like this. It is a good feature, but not for the GX-7.

Panasonic has done this long enough I am sure the GX-7 will be a good still camera and just ok for video for grab and go stuff. At the same price point the GH-3 is the current one to get for MFT's

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amtberg
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Re: horse manure
In reply to James Pilcher, Sep 5, 2013

James Pilcher wrote:

I don't use my sports car to haul horse manure, so we shouldn't expect a fine still camera to do it either.

Yep, sports cars should ONLY allow maximum acceleration  at all times.  If you don't want to smoke your slicks rocketing from 0 - 60 in 3.5 seconds buy a Civic!

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Barry Stewart
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Microphone jack
In reply to Alexis D, Sep 5, 2013

The fact that Olympus includes this inexpensive, but critical, feature is proof that they care somewhat about video shooters.

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gskolenda
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to peevee1, Sep 5, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

Macx wrote:

drpoop wrote:

My purpose in posting my disappointment in advance of the announcement is naively hopeful ..... in that, i seem to remember someone pointing out that Oly marketing/development folk sometimes read this specific forum.

I just want people to voice their frustration, I want Olympus to "listen to users" (to quote the tech guy in the leaked video of the EM1) hopefully someone at Olympus hears and an update or a last minute addition of some kind can make it in to the final production model.

Its just such a waste... 5 axis IBIS and poor video options. It makes no sense.

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

I am sorry, but how 24 mbps is not high quality "videography for the web"? Most people, like 99%, don't even have connection that fast, so you will have to compress further.

What you don't understand about video is, the video file megabits is not just for original quality viewing, it's bigger advantage is there is a lot more data to play with, chroma keying, color grading, special effects all done in post.

These all effect how the image looks, web, cable, satellite or broadcast! Kind of like Raw , but not real raw. However raw is already starting to make in roads into the DSLR video camera world and it's coming fast.

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Paul Auclair
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FYI for me...
In reply to drpoop, Sep 5, 2013

hoping some experienced videographers are reading this.

i watched some EM-5 video. author states he learned to set sharpness at -2 with EM-5.

one question I have still is...AE.

i recall fiddling with EM-5 in video mode and not being able to stop the camera from changing exposure level as i panned around the scene.

i normally have the camera set to M for stills so i assume it goes to M when switching to video mode, no?

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Abrak
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses BUT not Panasonic users
In reply to ryan2007, Sep 5, 2013

ryan2007 wrote:

Told the lot over the past few years Panasonic is the better and more innovative micro four thirds system. I get nothing but grief. Of course it made the ignore user list much better.

No one believes me. Many Olympus complaints three off the top on the OMD and the worst complaint about Panasonic was the GH-3's viewfinder.

Simple Panasonic is better then Olympus for what stands today. The GX-7 is not out yet but I assume it will be fine. If not, oh well.

The Panasonic GF-1, GX-1 and GH-3 are all great MFT's cameras. The only issue on the video side is any camera that wants to do video needs external microphone ability.

The GX-7 would be better with a mic input, fully articulating OLED and no moving viewfinder, that is a total waste in a camera like this. It is a good feature, but not for the GX-7.

Panasonic has done this long enough I am sure the GX-7 will be a good still camera and just ok for video for grab and go stuff. At the same price point the GH-3 is the current one to get for MFT's

It is interesting that your conclusion from this debate is that Panasonic makes better cameras - mine is rather the opposite. Panasonic obviously optimize their cameras for the hybrid market and have had better video specs than Oly forever.

With that being the case I am somewhat surprised by all the 'hybrid shooters' that seem desperate to shoot with an Oly. I would assume that IBIS has quite a lot to do with it.

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Advent1sam
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Re: FYI for me...
In reply to Paul Auclair, Sep 5, 2013

Paul Auclair wrote:

hoping some experienced videographers are reading this.

i watched some EM-5 video. author states he learned to set sharpness at -2 with EM-5.

one question I have still is...AE.

i recall fiddling with EM-5 in video mode and not being able to stop the camera from changing exposure level as i panned around the scene.

i normally have the camera set to M for stills so i assume it goes to M when switching to video mode, no?

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Paul

It goes to whatever you set it in the video menu, PASM are all available. In the PAS settings you can also lock exposure, ae-lock, in and out too while videoing. So changing exposure can be locked out on the EM-5, no problem. To be fair, I am not that bothered about the lack of 25p, the problem is flicker from light sources on an evening in euro countries, but even this can be minimized by setting 1/50 shutter. I guess it is what it is, but the lack of 24p and a 50/60p for 0.5 slo mo makes it restrictive for really creative stuff.

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Macx
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to cameron2, Sep 5, 2013

cameron2 wrote:

Macx wrote:

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

Hogwash. Uploading a video out of the EM1 will discard 90% of the quality of the video file. (Same with stills.)

As for this silly thread: People who expect every camera announcement to be "the one" are always going to find something to be disappointed about.

Go out and take some pictures.

I know it seems spoiled, and I don't pretend that I personally would be able to get the full use out of much better video, but more and more video work is made with dslrs and other "still" cameras. For a "pro" camera the ability to have flexible video modes is important, and a camera that combines good dynamic range, "steady-cam-like" IBIS and PDAF video would appeal to professionals that might otherwise use a 5D3.

I can't help thinking it's bad business not to cater for this segment, especially as it's a segment that might be interested in getting the more expensive 4:3 lenses for this camera generating some much needed extra revenue for the company. Plus, they get the sales to all the enthusiasts that want to use what they see the pros use, also known as the "Canon segment". Just kidding.

But, on the other hand, there is a mic input now, so maybe the rumours aren't speaking of the final firmware.

And, btw, more bandwidth does matter, as already pointed out. One thing is that you don't want digital artefacts in your video, since that really breaks the spell, but with more bandwidth and 4:2:2 you'll get clean chroma-keying and other post-processing "magic".

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Macx
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Re: FYI for me...
In reply to Advent1sam, Sep 5, 2013

Advent1sam wrote:

Paul Auclair wrote:

hoping some experienced videographers are reading this.

i watched some EM-5 video. author states he learned to set sharpness at -2 with EM-5.

one question I have still is...AE.

i recall fiddling with EM-5 in video mode and not being able to stop the camera from changing exposure level as i panned around the scene.

i normally have the camera set to M for stills so i assume it goes to M when switching to video mode, no?

-- hide signature --

Thanks,
Paul

It goes to whatever you set it in the video menu, PASM are all available. In the PAS settings you can also lock exposure, ae-lock, in and out too while videoing. So changing exposure can be locked out on the EM-5, no problem. To be fair, I am not that bothered about the lack of 25p, the problem is flicker from light sources on an evening in euro countries, but even this can be minimized by setting 1/50 shutter. I guess it is what it is, but the lack of 24p and a 50/60p for 0.5 slo mo makes it restrictive for really creative stuff.

Yes. Though it isn't the ideal solution, as you risk smearing when going below the 1/60 shutter time (180 degree shutter), which is why a 25 fps would be much appreciated.

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Advent1sam
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Re: E-M1 Video Specs - Everyone loses
In reply to Macx, Sep 5, 2013

Macx wrote:

cameron2 wrote:

Macx wrote:

I agree completely. More and more pro work is videography for the web. This would be such an advantage for Olympus if it offered high quality video

Hogwash. Uploading a video out of the EM1 will discard 90% of the quality of the video file. (Same with stills.)

As for this silly thread: People who expect every camera announcement to be "the one" are always going to find something to be disappointed about.

Go out and take some pictures.

I know it seems spoiled, and I don't pretend that I personally would be able to get the full use out of much better video, but more and more video work is made with dslrs and other "still" cameras. For a "pro" camera the ability to have flexible video modes is important, and a camera that combines good dynamic range, "steady-cam-like" IBIS and PDAF video would appeal to professionals that might otherwise use a 5D3.

PDAF for video? Do you mean PDAF confirmation as really i think the contrast detection of the m43 systems is much better for c-af than the lumpy c-af of dslrs for video. In manual focus mode though its nice to have the focus confirmation box come up on my Sony slt. Maybe they added the focus peaking though for video in which case you don't need the focus confirm box?

I can't help thinking it's bad business not to cater for this segment, especially as it's a segment that might be interested in getting the more expensive 4:3 lenses for this camera generating some much needed extra revenue for the company. Plus, they get the sales to all the enthusiasts that want to use what they see the pros use, also known as the "Canon segment". Just kidding.

But, on the other hand, there is a mic input now, so maybe the rumours aren't speaking of the final firmware.

And, btw, more bandwidth does matter, as already pointed out. One thing is that you don't want digital artefacts in your video, since that really breaks the spell, but with more bandwidth and 4:2:2 you'll get clean chroma-keying and other post-processing "magic".

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Advent1sam
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Re: FYI for me...
In reply to Macx, Sep 5, 2013

Macx wrote:

Advent1sam wrote:

Paul Auclair wrote:

hoping some experienced videographers are reading this.

i watched some EM-5 video. author states he learned to set sharpness at -2 with EM-5.

one question I have still is...AE.

i recall fiddling with EM-5 in video mode and not being able to stop the camera from changing exposure level as i panned around the scene.

i normally have the camera set to M for stills so i assume it goes to M when switching to video mode, no?

-- hide signature --

Thanks,
Paul

It goes to whatever you set it in the video menu, PASM are all available. In the PAS settings you can also lock exposure, ae-lock, in and out too while videoing. So changing exposure can be locked out on the EM-5, no problem. To be fair, I am not that bothered about the lack of 25p, the problem is flicker from light sources on an evening in euro countries, but even this can be minimized by setting 1/50 shutter. I guess it is what it is, but the lack of 24p and a 50/60p for 0.5 slo mo makes it restrictive for really creative stuff.

Yes. Though it isn't the ideal solution, as you risk smearing when going below the 1/60 shutter time (180 degree shutter), which is why a 25 fps would be much appreciated.

Agreed, but the video appears buttery smooth on the em-5 at 1/50, so it doesn't seem to be noticeable. Honestly, I would prefer 50mbit 50p and 28mbit 25p but if its only 30p 24mbit and the codec is strong, as per the d5200 and d7100 niks then it should be good enough... for hobbyists. But for others who intend to use it semi-pro/pro it's no go for video I guess, dissapointing as the IBIS is outstanding ;-(

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