The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene

Started Sep 2, 2013 | Discussions
Trevor G
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Re: The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene
In reply to alexisgreat, Sep 6, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

Wait, Trev, if Auto ISO chooses an ISO less than 400 at M size and DR 400, is hardware EXR still being used?

What are the rules?

I have clearly stated the rules several times, so what is the answer to your question?

The only reason I use AUTO ISO is because I can manually adjust ISO in 1/3 steps by changing the shutter speed. Manually adjusting ISO the "regular" way only lets you change it in full stops.

Not true.

Manually adjusting ISO allows you to choose 1/3 steps, except between ISO100 and 200, at least in the latest firmware.

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alexisgreat
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Re: The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 6, 2013

Then using AUTO ISO should be fine if you want to stick to Hardware EXR as long as the selected ISO is under 400. On my camera I can't select 1/3 ISO steps unless I use AUTO ISO and Shutter Priority.

So if I want to use ISO 320 (the highest ISO for hardware EXR) I must select AUTO ISO 400 (or any AUTO ISO) and carefully choose the shutter speed to make sure the camera selects ISO 320.

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prime
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Re: The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene
In reply to alexisgreat, Sep 6, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

Okay first of all, I work with 7.5x10 prints and supposedly these are 7 MP (300 ppi) or 10 mp (360 ppi) depending on which make printer you are using- I use the former. Does this mean that even if the resolution is that high, that one cannot distinguish extra resolution above 6 MP?

Usually, pixels are measured differently from printer resolution; the former in ppi and the latter in dpi. Are you sure that your printer is 300 ppi, or is it 300 dpi?

Also, and this is something I've always wondered- I have heard that 16 MP on the HS series cameras performs more like 6 MP on a non EXR sensor. So when we use M size DR 400, does that mean the camera resolves half that much detail- that is, performs like 3 MP on a non EXR sensor? I dont think this is true, but I'd like to know in terms of lines per height (which is a traditional way of measuring resolution) how much we lose when going from L size to M size.

You will hear a lot of things, and most of it is false. At L size, a 12 MP EXR sensor, because of its different demosaicing algorithm, will give less apparent resolution than a camera that uses a 12MP sensor with a Bayer filter. The subjective estimates bandied around are "like a 9MP" or "like a 10MP," or similar statements, but it is difficult to see how that could be quantified with any precision. Now, I may be misinterpreting Kim Letkemans very detailed investigations, but if I understand it correctly, the effective resolution of an EXR sensor is not degraded by enhancing dynamic range in hardware EXR (that is, using M size). The reason he states: the pairing of photosites in the M size setting reduces the resolution destroying aspects of noise reduction. I encourage you to read his blog in detail: Kim' Letkeman's how-to

Also, with regards to DR 800 and 1600, are these the only combined EXR modes and are they reserved for M size and ISO 200 and 400 and up respectively? I think they might only be for M size, but I am not sure if they have a minimum ISO limitation.

DR800 and DR1600 are not available -- no way to select either -- except when the mode dial is set to EXR, and the submode of D-range Priority is selected from the menu.

EXR hardware dynamic range enhancement is available in P, A, S, and M settings of the mode dial, but only if M size is selected by menu and either DR200 or DR400 is selected by menu. Because of shutter speed limitations, whether DR200 or DR400 are selectable menu items in PASM modes is determined by the ISO setting, which will imposes a floors or a ceiling. Personally, I shoot at ISO Auto400 and DR400 almost all the time, and I cannot remember bumping into a floor or ceiling -- but generally I do not use PASM in very low light situations. (With the F70EXR in low light I try to use Pro Low Light -- one of the settings on the ADV mode dial position -- where possible (that is, when subject is not moving); on the XF1, EXR Auto, which auto-selects an updated, much faster, version of Pro Low Light when needed, is my low light mode of choice.)

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BorisK1
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Thank you for the kind words!
In reply to CAcreeks, Sep 6, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

These are my favorites. You and the TG-1 did real well in this sun-soaked colorful scenes. The Rim Fire image is amazing! Looks like something a newspaper would want to print.

Thank you for the kind words!  It's a gorgeous country.  My main challenges were breathing and keeping sweat off the lens.  Well, that and forcing myself to pull out a camera and take another shot (I ended up with just under a thousand frames).

Yes, the HDR image is crapola. I really doubt that is effective in any camera except one mounted on tripod.

To be fair, some of them came out better than others, and what I posted was probably the worst of the lot.  But it's luck of the draw at best.  And when you can't calm your breathing because of the altitude, it gets worse.

Boris

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CAcreeks
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 6, 2013

Trevor G wrote:

I think Trev said that in PASM with M size and ISO 400 or higher and DR 400 (or ISO 200 or higher and DR 200), we are using software EXR. Maybe he can elaborate.

No need to elaborate - that's what I said (or wrote).

At the URL below, EXIF on my image claims Development Dynamic Range = 400, which means DR400. ISO = 640.

I guess without the Raw counterpart, I have no way of telling whether it is hardware or software EXR.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51782166

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Trevor G
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400
In reply to CAcreeks, Sep 6, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

Trevor G wrote:

I think Trev said that in PASM with M size and ISO 400 or higher and DR 400 (or ISO 200 or higher and DR 200), we are using software EXR. Maybe he can elaborate.

No need to elaborate - that's what I said (or wrote).

At the URL below, EXIF on my image claims Development Dynamic Range = 400, which means DR400. ISO = 640.

I guess without the Raw counterpart, I have no way of telling whether it is hardware or software EXR.

It's very simple.

DR works in hardware (sensor pixel pairing, 2 frames per image) at up to ISO400 with DR400, but at ISO400, while 2 frames are recorded, they are both at the same shutter speed.  Therefore, there is no EXR (hardware) DR at ISO400.

Below that, when ISO is less than DR, the EXR hardware system works to give two separately exposed but simultaneously recorded images which are combined in-camera to produce a single JPEG from the 2 frames.

With DR200, ISO must be at 100 for hardware EXR (2 simultaneous frames recorded per image) to work.

Please note that  the hardware  versions of EXR does not occur,  even when DR 200 or DR400 is selected, if there is not sufficient high contrast image content above 0EV to trigger it.  That is, both frames recorded will be at the same shutter speed or duration.

I'll post examples of that at some stage.

And yes, you are definitely in software EXR at ISO640.

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prime
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 6, 2013

Trevor G wrote:

With DR200, ISO must be at 100 for hardware EXR (2 simultaneous frames recorded per image) to work.

Please note that the hardware versions of EXR does not occur, even when DR 200 or DR400 is selected, if there is not sufficient high contrast image content above 0EV to trigger it. That is, both frames recorded will be at the same shutter speed or duration.

I'll post examples of that at some stage.

And yes, you are definitely in software EXR at ISO640.

I think that your further investigation will confirm that DR200 will work in hardware (at least in P or A modes) at ISO200 and ISO400, as well; I am pretty sure that DR200 works in hardware at ISO Auto400 and I know that the hardware DR400 works when ISO is set to Auto400 (where the camera adjusts the ISO automatically, and is not locked into ISO400), because I have exposed thousands of shots where it did so. Most of those were taken with an F70EXR, which has no RAW output, or with an XF1, set to JPEG only, so I cannot check the RAW file as you have done, but when post-processing in Aperture, I had a very wide range of adjustments available in both the highlights and shadows, which were not available when I shot S100fs with its software DR400 implementation, because in the S100fs the tone curve employed to implement the DR already had "used" the headroom, leaving much less room for further adjustment.

I cannot speak to EXR at ISO640, because I generally do not set ISO higher than Auto400 when shooting in PASM modes.

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Trevor G
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400
In reply to prime, Sep 6, 2013

prime wrote:

Trevor G wrote:

With DR200, ISO must be at 100 for hardware EXR (2 simultaneous frames recorded per image) to work.

Please note that the hardware versions of EXR does not occur, even when DR 200 or DR400 is selected, if there is not sufficient high contrast image content above 0EV to trigger it. That is, both frames recorded will be at the same shutter speed or duration.

I'll post examples of that at some stage.

And yes, you are definitely in software EXR at ISO640.

I think that your further investigation will confirm that DR200 will work in hardware (at least in P or A modes) at ISO200 and ISO400, as well;

I've already checked - like theDR400 setting, as soon as ISO = DR there are still 2 frames when DR200 meets ISO200, but they are identically exposed.  I'll post the shots later in the EXR thread at least.

I am pretty sure that DR200 works in hardware at ISO Auto400 and I know that the hardware DR400 works when ISO is set to Auto400 (where the camera adjusts the ISO automatically, and is not locked into ISO400), because I have exposed thousands of shots where it did so.

I agree.

DR200 hardware EXR can readily work with Auto ISO400 set, as long as the ISO chosen is less than 200.

I have been checking my F770 samples to make sure that this is carried across the board.  It is.

DR400 hardware EXR will also work with Auto ISO400 as long as the ISO is less than 400.  When ISO = DR you always get 2 frames, but they are exposed identically, which means that the hardware solution (sensor pixel pairing) is not being employed.

I have also checked this on my F770 and can verify that it is exactly the same.

We probably cannot help you tell whether the RAWless F70 is any different, but let's just say that the F series cameras with RAW follow the X Series cameras with RAW (although they actually preceded them in development and sales).

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Trevor G
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All Examples Shown Apply Specifically To X Series EXR Cameras
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

Trevor G wrote:

DR200 hardware EXR can readily work with Auto ISO400 set, as long as the ISO chosen is less than 200.

I have been checking my F770 samples to make sure that this is carried across the board.  It is.

Hang on a moment or two.

I was checking last night and everything seemed normal on the samples I checked.

On checking again this morning I am noticing some differences with the F770, compared to the X10.

Previously (when writing about EXR in 2011 and 2012) I had always said that what had been observed applied to the X seriies of EXR cameras, because I had noticed some oddities or variations in processing with F series pics.

One thing that was different was that RAW was available form F series and HS series EXR Mode shots.  That is not the case with X series.

Now, for the moment, I am going to emphasise:

Up to this point all examples apply specifically to X series EXR cameras.

There are variations which seem to occur with F series (and probably HS series cameras)  Stay tuned.

DR400 hardware EXR will also work with Auto ISO400 as long as the ISO is less than 400.  When ISO = DR you always get 2 frames, but they are exposed identically, which means that the hardware solution (sensor pixel pairing) is not being employed.

I have also checked this on my F770 and can verify that it is exactly the same.

Well, it appeared to be the case on the samples I checked last night, from special test images I shot in Australia.

Now I am looking more carefully at images shot in Fiji a few days later which are showing differences.

Firstly, DR400 shots at ISO400 appear to show 2 different frame exposures. That was not the case on the first images I shot in Australia. (I am pretty sure that geographic location has nothing to do with it.)

Secondly, Frame 2 is noticeably noisier than Frame 1 at ISO100 and DR400, and noisier than the OOC JPEG.

Unfortunately I don't have an F or HS series camera on hand - I sent it off with my wife who is in the US, so I will have to work my way through a lot of holiday pics. 

We probably cannot help you tell whether the RAWless F70 is any different, but let's just say that the F series cameras with RAW follow the X Series cameras with RAW (although they actually preceded them in development and sales).

That statement is most definitely wrong.  I should have remembered the RAW-in-EXR-Mode part but it was late at night...sorry.

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Trevor G
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400 in a non X Series camera
In reply to prime, Sep 7, 2013

prime wrote:

I think that your further investigation will confirm that DR200 will work in hardware (at least in P or A modes) at ISO200 and ISO400, as well; I am pretty sure that DR200 works in hardware at ISO Auto400 and I know that the hardware DR400 works when ISO is set to Auto400 (where the camera adjusts the ISO automatically, and is not locked into ISO400), because I have exposed thousands of shots where it did so..

Good work, good observing.

It now appears that you could be absolutely correct.

And please take that smirk off your face... 

Right now I am not sure what happens at ISO640 becauuse I don't think I shot anything at that point.  But I do have ISO100, 200, 400 and 800 shots from an F770 to examine.

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Trevor G
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prime
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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400 in a non X Series camera
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

Trevor G wrote:

And please take that smirk off your face...

Mommy, please, please, can't I leave it on just overnight?

I'll be interested in seeing your further delvings.

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Luego
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Timur's summary of Fujifilm X10's functions and issues...
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

Trevor, perhaps you want to refresh your memory. There was a time when you were just a student while Timur "the master of X10" did all the research.

At least provide the link to Timur's summary before you state misleading information about the X10.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3785306838/summary-of-fujifilm-x10s-functions-and-issues

L usually provides higher detail than M at all ISOs, but at ISO higher than 400 M size provides about 1 step worth of noise-reduction better luminance noise and overall less chroma blotching and white-noise shift.

- EXR DR (where half the sensor is exposed shorter and later) is only used at ISO lower than DR (ISO 100 + DR 200, ISO 100-320 + DR 400). Maximum exposure time is limited to 1/4 second in M-anual mode then. In A-perture mode this leads to a bug with EXR DR when exposure time is chosen longer than 1/4 second by the camera, switch to ISO 400+ or turn off DR if you need that much exposure. EXR DR does not replace clipping whites of the longer exposed half with information of the shorter exposed half, but only attenuates the clipping white to gray and then blends both halves (seen as a grey halo with a thin outline in between around specular highlights).

- HR DR (High Resolution) is used with ISO equal or higher than DR (i.e. ISO 400 + DR 400) and does not use the EXR capabilities of the sensor for DR. It can be used for both L and M images, but when combined with M then the X10 will use EXR SN pixel-binning in combination with DR. HR DR works by underexposing at lower ISO (amplification) and then pulling up shadows and mids via curves (at higher bit-rate RAW level before creating the JPG). It's the same as doing it manually via post-processing, but saves the extra work.

- Regardless of DR setting maximum exposure time in all other modes than M and A is limited to 1/4 second, this can lead to underexposure if you reach the limits of aperture and ISO. The camera will show the red underexposure letters, but still refuse to use longer exposure time.

- DR 400 provides higher dynamic range at all ISOs, but at the costs of less saturation in the deepest shadows and dark outlines around specular highlights (not just orbs). DR 200 can be a good compromise, but you have to choose the right setting for the right situation. EXR DR may increase the total dynamic range of the camera at ISO 100-200. HR DR does not increase the total dynamic-range of the camera, but it provides higher dynamic-range per ISO setting (dr normally decreases with higher ISO, so HR DR provides higher dr per ISO by internally using lower ISO before applying curves).

- EXR DR cannot be combined with flash, only HR DR is available when the built in flash is used (and likely the same with external flash).

- AUTO DR leads to overexposure (on my unit) even when all settings are the same as when you had set them manually. You cannot compensate this via -EV, because the overexposure only happens when AUTO DR chooses DR 200/400, not when it chooses DR 100. But the DR value chosen by AUTO DR is only visible _after_ you took the shot.

- AUTO ISO can also lead to a very slight change of exposure (but minimal), can be both more or less exposure. In combination with AUTO DR this can lead to even more overexposure, though.

- AUTO ISO (1600 and 3200) do not use their highest possible setting when the flash is used, even when this leads to underexposure. So AUTO ISO (1600) will max out at ISO 800, and AUTO ISO (3200) will max out at 1600.

- "+MOTION" IS only works in combination with AUTO ISO. It will increase ISO when it detect motion or camera-shake, but will allow lower ISO compared to not using "+MOTION" IS when the frame is steady (aka the X10 chooses higher ISO than necessary when "+MOTION" IS is turned off).

- AF-C may focus at a point slightly off center even when the cross-hair on aim and playback suggest the focus to be on the perfect center spot. This means that you may see a different focal plane on the image than what you aimed at even when the X10 confirmed to be in focus via green cross-hair. AF-S would rather report a failed AF in such a situation.

- "Spot" metering always meters on the center and not on the AF spot. The manual describes this properly, but it's still confusingly named.

- "Face Detection" automatically switches metering to "Multi", but in reality it meters and exposed on the detected face! Unfortunately the "superintelligent" flash does not measure on the face, which can lead to overflashed faces in some situation (especially if the face moved out of the center).

- "Tracking" AF does not switch metering and the metering does not follow the tracked object (aka not like Face Detection).

- "Tracking" AF works _better_ when power-saving is turned _off_. This is because power-saving not only dims the screen, but also reduces the refresh/frame-rate and seemingly this not only affects the output, but also the processing of on-screen information. According to the manual power-saving is turned off automatically for "Face Detection", but for "Tracking" it needs to be done manually.

- Aiming at a frame with bright highlights inside the metering area (depending on current metering setting) leads to the aperture closing down during aiming to provide a better preview on screen. Once you (half)press the shutter the aperture performs an "open-close-open" sequence that takes some time and is not related to auto-focus. The wider your chosen aperture to be for the shot the longer this sequence takes. Using AUTO ISO also has some very slight impact on the lengths of the sequence.

- Shooting "RAW + JPG" in M size at ISO at least double as high as DR leads to RAW file size being cut in half the size (does not happen with "RAW" only), from 18 mb to 10 mb. More important, this leads to SN pixel-binning happening inside the camera before RAW creation! The difference between pixel-binning inside the camera vs. inside the raw software is that the automatically applied curves to shadows and mids differ and thus the ranges/behavior to changes in the raw software is different (same value have vastly different outcome).

- RAW Converter EX/Silkypix seems to mostly throw away the information of the longer exposed sensor half of EXR DR raws (not just clipped highlights, but everything)! What you will get is the same as if you had exposed the whole image later and shorter. If any motion was present during exposure then some of the motion related regions may show wrong/missing colors and kind of dithering artifacts. This seems to be different with different images. What it does effectively is to put priority on the shorter (and thus worse) exposed sensor half and then may or may not add in some information from the longer exposed half.

-*-

Some clarification on dynamic range and how dr "expansion" works on the X10 via the use of DR 200/400 modes (EXR DR vs. HR DR):

According to DxO lab the X10 offers a maximum dr of 11.29 EV at ISO 100 and drops down to 8.15 EV at ISO 1600. This means that the higher the ISO the lower the dynamic-range.

*EXR DR = half the sensor is exposed shorter and later*

EXR DR is only usable for M sized images at ISO 100 + DR 200 or ISO 100-320 + DR 400, aka ISO value lower than DR value! All other combinations of ISO + DR use the other DR method called "High Resolution" (HR) DR. Additionally the maximum exposure time is limited to 1/4 second, likely to avoid motion artifacts that can appear because of the time-difference between the sensor halves (1/4 also seems to be the about limit of the image-stabilization's effectiveness).

Theoretically using EXR DR 400 at ISO 100 should extend the dynamic-range of the X10 to around 13.3 EV. In practice I suspect that it is a bit lower than that, because at least in-camera clipped highlights are rather ungracefully blended instead of sophistical replaced with the other sensor half. Before the blending happens the underexposed half seems to have its mid-tones lifted to match the longer exposed one. And because half the sensor is underexposed and collect less photons you also lose some information in the deepest shadows, usually in form of some lost saturation, at least in JPGs.

Once you use ISO 400 (9.8 EV dynamic range according to DxO) the theoretical dynamic range in combination with EXR DR would be around 11.8 EV. But usually you are using shorter exposure times with higher ISO or shot a lower light scene, so half the sensor would be even more underexposed and thus the practical gain would be nowhere higher than the original 11.3 EV that ISO 100 give at DR 100. No more benefit + possible drawbacks = makes no more sense to use EXR DR at ISO 400 and higher.

Raw converter software is responsible for properly blending the two sensor halves and applying curves. This is what most software still fails at, including RAW Converter EX, Silkypix and Lightroom. Capture One currently seems to do it best, but lacks support for 12 mp DR 100 files in return. No software offers sophisticated control over the process.

*High Resolution (HR) DR = full sensor exposing at lower amplification/ISO*

HR DR has several benefits over EXR DR and doesn't need an EXR sensor at all (which is the reason why you find it in the X100, too). Internally it exposes the shot at 1 (DR 200) or 2 (DR 400) stops lower ISO to protect highlights and then applies curves to the higher bit-rate raw data before creating the final JPG. The total highlight protection of HR DR JPGs is about 2.5 EV, which likely is done by pulling highlights further down by 0.5 EV from the raw data that offers that much headroom.

Since the camera uses lower ISO internally it gains dynamic-range, as can be seen by the DxO measurements (lower ISO = higher dynamic-range). Again I doubt that 2 stops of dynamic-range are gained in practice, especially since each stop of ISO does not correspond to a full stop of dynamic-range.

The benefits of HR DR over EXR DR are:

- Can be used with L sized images and can be combined with EXR SN pixel-binning with M sized images.

- Exposes the whole sensor at the same time and thus avoids motion artifacts of EXR DR (which happen due to differently exposed halves with EXR DR).

- Exposes the whole sensor for the full time and thus allows more photons to reach the AD converters. Interestingly HR DR still leads to loss of saturation in the lowest shadows just like EXR DR, so analog amplification seems to play a role, too.

- Allows full maximum exposure time to be used (8 seconds at ISO 400) vs. 1/4 second maximum of EXR DR.

- Is supported by all major raw converter software, even more so when pre-binned 10 mb raw files are used.

The reason why HR DR is only usable at ISO equal or higher to DR is simple. In order to use 1 or 2 stops lower ISO/amplification you need to start at higher ISO. The sensor simply is not capable of using lower ISO than 100, so you need ISO 200 for DR 200 (=ISO 100) and ISO 400 for DR 400 (=ISO 100).

And again, there is no "hardware" vs. "software". Both DR modes use hardware level exposure tricks (EXR uses shorter exposure time, HR uses lower ISO/amplification) and both modes seem to apply tone-curves afterwards. Only EXR DR is a "true" EXR sensor mode, but then HR DR allows to combine DR with EXR SN pixel-binning, too.

There are different types of RAW files on the X10:

- 12 mp size L with or without HR DR (RAW or RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 4000x3000 pixels and apply tone-curves for HR DR (the camera just underexposes internally). Some converters throw away half the sensor information and only create an M size image (Capture One).

- 12 mp size M with EXR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112, apply curves to the shorter exposed half and blend both halves. Silkypix/EX throws away most (sometimes all) of the longer exposed half information and mostly (sometimes only) creates an image out of the longer exposed half (not just highlights stuff). These files handle differently in each converter, some better (Capture One), some in between (Lightroom), some worse (Silkypix).

- 12 mp size M with HR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112, apply curves for HR DR and pixel-bin both halves together for better SN.

- 12 mp size M without HR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112 and pixel-bin both halves together for better SN.

- 6 mp size M with HR DR (RAW+JPG, ISO 2x DR). The camera seems to do the pixel-binning and likely even curves! Some RAW converters cannot load these files at all (Capture One), those that can should all be able to handle them well. But as a consequence to the camera's pre-production these files react differently to RAW converters' controls (exposure, highlights etc) compared to 12 mp files. This means that the same RAW converter setting will have a different outcome.

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Trevor G
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Re: Timur's summary of Fujifilm X10's functions and issues...
In reply to Luego, Sep 7, 2013

Luego wrote:

Trevor, perhaps you want to refresh your memory. There was a time when you were just a student while Timur "the master of X10" did all the research.

At least provide the link to Timur's summary before you state misleading information about the X10.

Firstly, I don't believe I have provided misleading information about the X10.  Can you point me to that?  Maybe you should read fully before jumping in?

The misinformation was about the smaller, 1/2" (or close to that) sensor cameras, such as the F and HS series, in thinking that the EXR rules which apply to the X Series cameras also apply equally to those.  They don't.  We'll get there in the end...

I have never been a "student' of Timur's and started writing posts about the X10's amazing highlight headroom capabilities some weeks before he appeared on the scene.  I started by writing about the F550's amazing highlight headroom capabilities.

I don't agree with everyting Timur says and feel no need to provide links to his otherwise interesting material.  You have done that, great!  His findings as such, however, are not the topic of this thread.

But this is not a contest.  I am providing information for new users, or people who do not realise some important things about EXR in the X series cameras.  My examples are clear and well illustrated and annotated - hopefully everyone will benefit from them.

Go well.

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alexisgreat
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Re: The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene
In reply to prime, Sep 7, 2013

Thanks I figured this might be the case in terms of resolution- and the only way I can think of to subjectively analyze resolution is to shoot resolution test charts and compare- and it seems like these sensors performance averages around that of a 9 MP sensor in terms of lph resolution.

The generally accepted literature I've read on printers is that most resolve 300 ppi so if you stretch a 7 MP image across 7.5x10 inches you get 300 pixels per inch......... Epson;s native resolution is 360 ppi so 10 MP images cover 7.5x10, if you use some other resolution image you get interpolation.

So, ISO 200 isnt a minimum for DR 800 and ISO 400 isnt a minimum for DR 1600? I take these are only available in M size in any case.

I also use AUTO ISO 400 and DR 400

Since our settings are similar our findings should be also- the ISO ceiling for DR 200 or 400 is ISO 3200, I suspect this is because ISO 6400 uses SN mode (unofficially.)  At M size any lower ISO can be used.  I have a 1" exposure limit it wont allow me to take images that expose for longer than that in Shutter Priority.

The reason I ask Trevor if intermediate ISO are covered under hardware EXR is because I'm wondering if these 1/3 step ISO are truly sensor based or if (for example) ISO 320 is merely ISO 400 underexposed by 1/3 stop- in which case DR 400 even at M size with ISO 320 would possibly use software EXR. Hopefully someone will test this.

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Re: not that simple
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

It's not that simple Trev and why I keep asking you about ISO 320 and other intermediate ISO is because I am not sure that (for example) ISO 320 is natively supported by these sensors, it may just be ISO 400 underexposed by 1/3 stop in which case it may well use software EXR.  Perhaps all 1/3 stop ISO are merely full stop ISO under or over exposed.

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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

Basically what you're saying is it is no different if (for example) ISO 200 is manually selected vs the camera selecting ISO 200 in AUTO ISO 400 in terms of hardware EXR being supported..

However, what still needs to be answered is how these intermediate step ISO work and if they are full stop ISO slightly over or underexposed they may not support hardware EXR. (like if ISO 320 is actually ISO 400 underexposed 1/3 stop).  This needs to be tested.

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Re: All Examples Shown Apply Specifically To X Series EXR Cameras
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

hmmmm so perhaps the M size DR 400 ISO 400 limit Hardware EXR limit doesn't apply to F and HS series cameras- or maybe even earlier or later models have the limit, while others dont?  I wonder what the actual limit is with these cameras? I guess further testing will give us answers.

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Re: ISO 640 example at DR400 in a non X Series camera
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

It will be interesting to see how intermediate ISO steps actually work and if they use hardware EXR or not AND to see what the actual ISO limit is for hardware EXR in F and HS series cameras!

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Re: Timur's summary of Fujifilm X10's functions and issues...
In reply to Trevor G, Sep 7, 2013

where is Timur anyway? last I heard he had gone mirrorless with his (then) new OM-D E-5

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Re: The Advantages of DR400 vs DR200 vs DR100 - High Contrast Scene
In reply to alexisgreat, Sep 7, 2013

alexisgreat wrote:

The reason I ask Trevor if intermediate ISO are covered under hardware EXR is because I'm wondering if these 1/3 step ISO are truly sensor based or if (for example) ISO 320 is merely ISO 400 underexposed by 1/3 stop- in which case DR 400 even at M size with ISO 320 would possibly use software EXR. Hopefully someone will test this.

You are nothing if not persistent.

Somone HAS tested this and told you already - why keep asking the same question over and over?  How many identical answers do you need for the same question?

BTW Are you asking about an X series camera?  The F and HS series appear to be somewhat different in certain areas.

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