Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
meagre offerings
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to dale thorn, 11 months ago

bosjohn wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

meagre offerings wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

I'll assume I'm on dale's ignor

i have had a whisper that everyone is, other than bosjohn, allegedly!!!!

You've made it too, eh? Welcome to the ranks of the truly despicable! We throw the best parties.

what me what did I do? the good lord only knows on how many ignor lists I have the honer to be on

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bosjohn aka John Shick bosjohn@yahoo.com

Is someone saying they disagree with DPReview's standard forum features? Get over it. Some of my associates have noted that fully half of the replies on my latest threads have been grayed out (ignores), and described it as "thread bombing". So now the word is spreading.

surely if half the people who take part in your threads are on your 'ignore' list, that says more about you and your well used 'ignore' list than it does about the active forum members.

best

pc
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meagre offerings
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to bosjohn, 11 months ago

meagre offerings wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

meagre offerings wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

I'll assume I'm on dale's ignor

i have had a whisper that everyone is, other than bosjohn, allegedly!!!!

You've made it too, eh? Welcome to the ranks of the truly despicable! We throw the best parties.

what me what did I do? the good lord only knows on how many ignor lists I have the honer to be on

-- hide signature --

bosjohn aka John Shick bosjohn@yahoo.com

well your not on mine john, in fact mine is empty.

best

pc
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mine is empty too I keep it that way:-)

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bosjohn aka John Shick bosjohn@yahoo.com

maybe we are comfortable with our contribution to this wonderful forum john, some may not be so.

very best

pc
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LeitzKameraAktion
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to meagre offerings, 11 months ago

In my experience, it's not common to see air bubbles in a Noctilux. But it does sometimes happen.

Many exotic high refractive index 'Rare Earth' glasses cannot be sufficiently heated to become fully liquid without the special properties of the glass being diminished. This creates the possibility of air bubbles being trapped in the glass as it cools.

The glass used in the Noctilux is among the most exotic found in any lens. It's notoriously sensitive, and takes about a year to cool. It requires very careful handling, and helps explains why Leica can only make small quantites of this lens.

In years past, the presence of a few tiny air bubbles was actually seen as a sign of quality. One way of telling if a lens was made using Rare Earth glass was the presence of bubbles. Since the 1960s, bubbles in the glass have become less and less common as manufacturing techniques have improved. But, it's still difficult to totally eliminate them.

Of greater importance for image quality is the extremely fine 'Nano level' finish Leica apply to the surfaces of their glass. It's one of the things you pay for with the more recent Leica lenses. Unfortunately, you cannot see this with the naked eye!

Here's something from Schott explaining a bit more about optical glass - including a short section on bubbles   http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee347/sglass.pdf

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Artichoke
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John has this correct
In reply to bosjohn, 11 months ago

bosjohn wrote:

back when I was very young before most of you were born legond had it a bubble in your lens was a good thing a sign of quality. the occure now and then and seem to be of no importance. I suspect it gets in when the glass is molton

I have also heard this & there is a post here from LeitzKameraAktion (great moniker, btw) explaining why this is the case & which you can show to future buyers

shouldn't worry about it

if it shoots well, no problem

most Leica lenses are best not sold & I suspect should you ever have the need to part with it, there will be no impact on its price

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porrsha
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to xtforest, 11 months ago

xtforest wrote:

yup, given the price of this lens, new or used, I'd expect nothing but perfection. I'm surprised that Leica QC would let this slip through.

Rob

Rob,

I would hazard a guess that you are not in possession of the Leica QC protocol documents. Having the Leica microscope facility in Schweiss there is not much that leaves any Leica plant with out explicit permission.

Most optical companies will ship a product if it is optically functional but has a minor blemish. I would consider the gas bubble a minor blemish. Maybe Dale can loan it to me for a month or two and I will "evaluate" it.

Wayne

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TThorne
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to meagre offerings, 11 months ago

meagre offerings wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

meagre offerings wrote:

Toccata47 wrote:

I'll assume I'm on dale's ignor

i have had a whisper that everyone is, other than bosjohn, allegedly!!!!

You've made it too, eh? Welcome to the ranks of the truly despicable! We throw the best parties.

what me what did I do? the good lord only knows on how many ignor lists I have the honer to be on

-- hide signature --

bosjohn aka John Shick bosjohn@yahoo.com

well your not on mine john, in fact mine is empty.

best

pc
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Mine is empty also, but now I am curious if I am on anyone's list. I don't want to be left out of the party!!!!

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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

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xtforest
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to porrsha, 11 months ago

No I am not in possession of those documents; I doubt whether you are too. Against what criteria are you going to "evaluate" it?

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Toccata47
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to meagre offerings, 11 months ago

meagre offerings wrote:

well your not on mine john, in fact mine is empty.

best

Challenge accepted!!

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Toccata47
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to xtforest, 11 months ago

xtforest wrote:

yup, given the price of this lens, new or used, I'd expect nothing but perfection. I'm surprised that Leica QC would let this slip through.

Rob

Well the issue is that it is not necessarily a qc issue, rather it's a side effect of the process if that makes any sense. Truth is, Leica will accept a bubbled nocti for return whether or not the bubble has an impact on image quality. In my case, the bubble did not present an issue but I was young enough and angry enough to insist and they obliged without issue. If I had to do it over I probably would have kept the first copy but I was worried about resale.

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porrsha
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to xtforest, 11 months ago

xtforest wrote:

No I am not in possession of those documents; I doubt whether you are too. Against what criteria are you going to "evaluate" it?

I have several optical charts that would serve the purpose but the big thing would be to put that Noctilux on my M-240 and do some shooting. I don't see Dale loaning me a $10,000 lens anytime soon.

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dale thorn
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to porrsha, 11 months ago

porrsha wrote:

xtforest wrote:

No I am not in possession of those documents; I doubt whether you are too. Against what criteria are you going to "evaluate" it?

I have several optical charts that would serve the purpose but the big thing would be to put that Noctilux on my M-240 and do some shooting. I don't see Dale loaning me a $10,000 lens anytime soon.

It's a heckuva thing in Leica land - I wanted a M-240 so bad and couldn't even bribe the sales guy....

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mgatov
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to Toccata47, 11 months ago

Come over to the dark side... we have cookies.

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dale thorn
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to dale thorn, 11 months ago

The Nocti has now gone back, to be replaced immediately. I'd sure like to know what happens to it, but doubt that I'll hear anything after receiving the new lens.

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Gesture
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to dale thorn, 11 months ago

Good luck.  Let us know how the new lens is.

I guess the lens was within specs, but it seems that the front element could have been rejected before full lens assembly, collimation, testing, etc.

Leica is expensive and this is what you are paying for.  What I don't like is the sense of "let's see who settles with it."  That happens a lot I believe in the used camera business.

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dale thorn
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to Gesture, 11 months ago

Gesture wrote:

Good luck. Let us know how the new lens is.

I guess the lens was within specs, but it seems that the front element could have been rejected before full lens assembly, collimation, testing, etc.

Leica is expensive and this is what you are paying for. What I don't like is the sense of "let's see who settles with it." That happens a lot I believe in the used camera business.

It's an interesting thing being in the midde of this, and not having any idea what the big picture is. I would be happy to retain and use that lens under certain conditions since it was performing well, but the man said "Send it back for immediate replacement". I was sort-of hoping when the dealer got the lens they would inspect it and tell me what they think (since the photos here aren't crystal clear on whatever that little object is), but if they don't say anything and just send a new lens, then I'll accept that no news is good news. It's the first removable Leica lens I've had since the f2 35 and 50 mm lenses I had with my M4 and M6, now long gone, so it's an exciting time to experiment with this new f0.95 lens.

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andyvanzz
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to dale thorn, 11 months ago

Have you tried wet lens cleaning? A few times I had very similar "bubbles" on some of my lenses which would repeatedly make me terrified for not noticing them at the time of purchase. They always looked very real as if they were underneath the surface of the glass. Neither brush nor carbon lens pen would not make any difference on them. But a few swipes with Zeiss lens cleaner and they are gone. I wonder if you has the same "bubble"...

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dale thorn
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Re: Glass bubble in Noctilux f0.95?
In reply to andyvanzz, 11 months ago

andyvanzz wrote:

Have you tried wet lens cleaning? A few times I had very similar "bubbles" on some of my lenses which would repeatedly make me terrified for not noticing them at the time of purchase. They always looked very real as if they were underneath the surface of the glass. Neither brush nor carbon lens pen would not make any difference on them. But a few swipes with Zeiss lens cleaner and they are gone. I wonder if you has the same "bubble"...

I would hope the dealer I sent it back to might try that, assuming that the magic cleaner doesn't have an adverse effect on Leica's lens coating. I seem to remember it has a special coating, and given what it costs, someone really has to know what they're doing.

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