Some HS50 shots for C&C

Started Sep 1, 2013 | Discussions
Andy Hewitt
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Some HS50 shots for C&C
Sep 1, 2013

Hi all,

Got out and about a bit yesterday, and decided to try out some of the EXR techniques I've read from articles posted here.

Seems to me that the HS50 is getting a rather mixed bag of praise and criticism. One big topic seems to be regarding the way to set this up.

I decided to go out and try out the differences between shooting in L and M size, and leave the DR setting to 400, and ISO to Auto400 (the two latter are as recommended in one article at least). Mostly to see what the difference is on this model. Having read through a fair bit of material now, I find that there's both good information, and conflicting information. Many suggest that you need to shoot in M to get the best from the EXR sensor, but I have also seen comments that this may not apply to the HS50 sensor.

Having tried both sizes, I have to say I can't really see that much difference, although if anything the L images seem to me to have a bit more detail. The only thing I would have changed would have been the ISO setting. Until I re-read an article later, I didn't know that it would bung it straight to ISO400, which is a little on the noisy side for my tastes.

However, I've a few shots here for persual, hopefully some reasonable critique and discussion. They're all processed in LightRoom 5, using only as much adjustments as needed to clean them up a bit.

The first few are all M.

And these are all L.

Cheers.

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DickyAus
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

Hi Andy,

it would have been a good idea to include the EXIF data so someone could have worked out what has gone so dreadfully wrong.

Dicky

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Andy Hewitt
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to DickyAus, Sep 1, 2013

DickyAus wrote:

Hi Andy,

it would have been a good idea to include the EXIF data so someone could have worked out what has gone so dreadfully wrong.

I didn't think they were all that bad, but yeah, not what I was hoping for.

I also didn't spot that LR had stripped the EXIF data, so here's a few of them with it included.

M mode

M Mode

L mode

L mode

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

So why ISO400, is the camera stuck on it?

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Andy Hewitt
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

So why ISO400, is the camera stuck on it?

It seems to be at those settings. As I mentioned, I used DR400, and ISO 400 Auto, but the camera seemed to force it to stay at 400. It was just a test series to see how M size compares to L size. Unfortunately I think the high ISO has spilt that somewhat.

It was very tricky lighting though, with a fairly light plain grey sky, dark areas under the trees.

I think there's still a lot for me to learn from LightRoom too.

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Lightpath48
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

My reference is X10 since I don't own an HS50, but would it be possible for you to set raw + jpeg, M, ISO 100 and DR 400?  ISO 100 would help, I think. Also, try dropping exposure down by a 1/3 or even 2/3 factor for landscapes. It reduces the highlight clipping on reflective surfaces of leaves, etc. Here's a sample of those settings (X10)

Different lighting from yours, but shows results of above settings on EXR sensor

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

Andy Hewitt wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

So why ISO400, is the camera stuck on it?

It seems to be at those settings. As I mentioned, I used DR400, and ISO 400 Auto, but the camera seemed to force it to stay at 400. It was just a test series to see how M size compares to L size. Unfortunately I think the high ISO has spilt that somewhat.

It was very tricky lighting though, with a fairly light plain grey sky, dark areas under the trees.

If you have DR400% dialled in at L size it will always chose ISO400, M size can shoot ISO100 and DR400%

These were shot at ISO800 in M size, I always leave my camera at DR400% but then I always shoot in M size. I think they came out very well in almost the same conditions.

The sensor in the X10 and X-S1 are as clean at ISO800 as the HS50 at ISO100.

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Andy Hewitt
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Lightpath48, Sep 1, 2013

Lightpath48 wrote:

My reference is X10 since I don't own an HS50, but would it be possible for you to set raw + jpeg, M, ISO 100 and DR 400? ISO 100 would help, I think. Also, try dropping exposure down by a 1/3 or even 2/3 factor for landscapes. It reduces the highlight clipping on reflective surfaces of leaves, etc. Here's a sample of those settings (X10)

Yes, that's possible, all of these shots had those settings, except for the ISO. Does ISO400 really screw things up that much? I usually shoot at -0.3ev (it was also necessary on most Olympus DSLRs). My processing in LR seems to find that clipping isn't generally a serious issue with the HS50 though, and all recovery sliders were mostly well within the boundaries when adjusted.

I think it looks like there's just too much detail lost with the high ISO noise here. I should be used to that, as again, all the Olympus cameras suffered with ISO noise above 400, and it was general practice to fix them to 100.

Cheers.

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Andy Hewitt
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

Andy Hewitt wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

So why ISO400, is the camera stuck on it?

It seems to be at those settings. As I mentioned, I used DR400, and ISO 400 Auto, but the camera seemed to force it to stay at 400. It was just a test series to see how M size compares to L size. Unfortunately I think the high ISO has spilt that somewhat.

It was very tricky lighting though, with a fairly light plain grey sky, dark areas under the trees.

If you have DR400% dialled in at L size it will always chose ISO400, M size can shoot ISO100 and DR400%

These were shot at ISO800 in M size, I always leave my camera at DR400% but then I always shoot in M size. I think they came out very well in almost the same conditions.

The sensor in the X10 and X-S1 are as clean at ISO800 as the HS50 at ISO100.

Interesting, these have much more detail and vibrancy. I've tried adjusting out in LR5, but nothing seems to get these near to that kind of look.

Any idea where I'm going wrong?

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Lightpath48
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

Nice seeing some of your work, Paul.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

Andy Hewitt wrote:

Interesting, these have much more detail and vibrancy. I've tried adjusting out in LR5, but nothing seems to get these near to that kind of look.

Any idea where I'm going wrong?

Yes, you bought an HS50 rather than the vastly superior X-S1.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Lightpath48, Sep 1, 2013

Lightpath48 wrote:

Nice seeing some of your work, Paul.

Thanks and back to you.

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Andy Hewitt
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

Andy Hewitt wrote:

Interesting, these have much more detail and vibrancy. I've tried adjusting out in LR5, but nothing seems to get these near to that kind of look.

Any idea where I'm going wrong?

Yes, you bought an HS50 rather than the vastly superior X-S1.

Hmm, well, I had considered one of those, but I found too many stories of repairs, dropping lenses and poor sensors.

Of course, perhaps I should have gone for the Panny FZ200 instead, or perhaps just not sold my DSLR kit!

Oh well, I'll keep trying.

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expressivecanvas
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

From looking at your photos in the original post, I was immediately thinking that you simply did two things...  you had DR set to its highest setting and it probably was not needed...  and that you exposed for the darkest shadows.  This brought your shadows up so much that you not only lost an acceptable 'black point', but it almost looks so overexposed that you are bordering on a hazy flaring.

This left your photos hazy, lacking contrast, and flat.

In my opinion...   I've noticed that people seem to always be trying to get the highest amount of DR as possible, whether the photo needs it or not.  If that high dynamic range is not in the scene, this will result in flat images, in my opinion.   Of course, if you have a bright sky and most of your subject lost in deep, dark shadows, then you would need to dial in some DR.  But, my point is that I am seeing far too many people shooting for a DR400% whether it is needed or not, while metering exposure at the darkest shadows...  the result is always a flat photo lacking shadows and a black point.

The dark shadows in a thick forest is what adds interest.  Why would someone try to set a tone curve so high that you lose all those mysterious dark shadows?  You end up losing the very thing you loved about the scene...   deep dark shadows and lush green foliage.

The one photo where the DR was needed is the photo of the plant with the sky as a background...  but, the sky is blown out and the plant has no real black point.  It has a medium gray point.  I suppose it is possible that you are in 'spot metering' and you tend to choose your darkest shadows to meter...   that doesn't help in this situation.  For some situations, yes, it definitely helps.  Not in a scene like this with a bright sky as your background.

As far as what settings to use for the HS50...  I have no idea...  the HS series does not interest me.  It seems to me that Paul has a good handle on shooting these newer high DR Fuji cams though...  his shots still do have a good dynamic range yet also have nice shadows and a true black point.

Patrick  : )

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alexisgreat
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Re: Paul
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

I'm thinking of adding the X-S1 to my collection, how does it do with macros? Does the HS series macro trick work with it?

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alexisgreat
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

Andrew, the X-S1 is in its own class, but to try and improve the results with your HS50 try the following settings:

M size DR 400 Auto ISO 400 (this combo will make sure ISO 400 only gets chosen in low light)

okay, and here is a little trick I am using

S Priority and do some test shots to figure out the limits of your handheld shooting and keep the shutter speed as slow as you can keep it and that will make sure ISO stays as close to 100 as possible. The shutter speeds the camera chooses in A priority are often faster than they need be, and this also means a higher ISO is chosen. I fine that in S Priority I can get ISO to change in 1/3 step increments as I adjust the shutter speed. You will have to take some pics at various shutter speeds and examine them in review to see what ISO was chosen and to see what your handholding limits are. I find that keeping point of focus magnified in review helps with this.

Spot Metering

Center Focus Point

EC -0.3 is good leave it there.

Leave IS on Continuous

SET NR TO THE LOWEST POSSIBLE SETTING

SET SHARPENING TO THE LOWEST POSSIBLE SETTING

I think that's it- if I remember anything else I'll let you know and please let us know how it turns out.

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DickyAus
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 1, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

Andy Hewitt wrote:

Interesting, these have much more detail and vibrancy. I've tried adjusting out in LR5, but nothing seems to get these near to that kind of look.

Any idea where I'm going wrong?

Yes, you bought an HS50 rather than the vastly superior X-S1.

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Yes Paul, but you paid at least 50% more for the X-S1 so you expect a better photo. But there isn't too much wrong with the HS50's colours even SOOC albeit at lower ISO. And Fuji colours leave the FZ200 for dead.

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alexisgreat
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to DickyAus, Sep 1, 2013

what's the size difference between the X-S1 and the HS50?  With previous HS series cameras, smaller size was a major selling point, I dont know if that's the case anymore.

The thing I notice with canon specifically is that their sensor, although smaller, seems to perform better at higher ISO than the slightly larger fuji sensor! I wonder why that is?  Less MP?

Honestly, sometimes I wish Fuji would have just improved the 1/2.3 sensor they used in the HS10, make it EXR, but keep the MP to 10, so M size would have been 5 MP- plenty for everyone but Joms I guess lol.  I think a 10/5 MP 1/2.3 BSI EXR CMOS sensor would have produced really good DR and lower levels of noise at higher ISO than the current 16/8 MP 1/2 sensor.  Also, the HS50 would have been more compact at 1000mm and maybe even at 1200mm.  Basically, all they would need to do is make an EXR version of the SL1000 and cut the MP's from 16 to 10.

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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to Andy Hewitt, Sep 1, 2013

I use an HS25EXR, which is similar. Of course L size will give you some more detail, but if you're using the DR right, you should see a difference between L size and M size in terms of DR.

My main suggestion would be a different film simulation. I can't see the EXIF data at the moment, but if you're using Provia I'd suggest trying Velvia, especially for such landscapy shots.

Also, at least a couple of the photos look as if they were taken in bright light (around the castle area, with some clouds but also some sky). There's no way those should need ISO 400. Are you sure you had it on ISO Auto 400, and not ISO 400? I've made that mistake on occasion.

I've never had trouble on the HS25 with Auto 400 turning into static 400 at M size -- BUT -- I shoot in A mode, and a lot of the M size settings recommend Provia and P mode, which may make a difference, though I can't imagine why. With ISO Auto 400, the HS25 sometimes turns out ISO's I didn't know it had, such as ISO 160 and ISO 320, but typically it turns out something below ISO 400, unless it really does need 400 (or higher). I don't like the result and have the time, I can sometimes manually set ISO 200 and get a good shot by stabilizing the camera w/ EVF to eye, but if the HS25 usually guesses the ISO quite well, 'twould be an astounding step back if the HS50 can't do it.

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alexisgreat
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Re: Some HS50 shots for C&C
In reply to cantanima, Sep 1, 2013

With the HS20 it works much the same, but I have a different take..... I ditched A mode completely because it's just not worth it on these small sensors, I found when I used it I was sticking to the widest possible aperture anyway to avoid diffraction and to keep shutter speed as fast as possible and depth of field isnt an issue on these small sensors, so I use shutter priority completely and get more control over camera settings, it lets you adjust ISO in 1/3 steps (those intermediate ISO you mentioned) on the HS20 by changing the shutter speed and I always keep the slowest shutter speed that I can handhold so aperture is always maximized and ISO is always as close to 100 as possible. It's about two stops slower than the shutter speed the camera selects.

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