Keep LX7 or RX100?

Started Aug 29, 2013 | Discussions
borocay
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Keep LX7 or RX100?
Aug 29, 2013

Hi, I have owned a Panasonic LX7 for about six months and I have fallen in love with it. It is a very fun camera to use.  The other day I was at Best Buy looking at cameras and I came across the RX100. I had read all of the great reviews on the camera so I was intrigued to say the least. The Best Buy guy comes by and tells me that they have an open box RX100 for sale for $460.00. That is a significant reduction off the retail price for the camera so it caught my attention to say the least. Then he tells me that he might be able to get his manager to go even lower on the price. A few minutes later he comes back and tell me he can sell it for $420.00. I couldn't pass it up so I bought it. I have used it for the past couple of days taking pictures around the house. It is a very nice camera. However, it is not as easy or fun to use as the LX7.  Unfortunately, I have to come to terms that I can only keep one camera since both the LX7 and the RX100 are so similar.  I hate to return such a nice camera that I got for such a cheap price, but at the same time I recognize that keeping both is foolish.  I really want to keep one of them and purchase something else like a WX300 or HX50V which has a large zoom, so I can have different types of cameras for different occasions. I know this is a Sony forum so most posters will favor the RX100 but I really want some suggestions on which one to keep.  Any help, suggestions, tie-breakers would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

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spencerda
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to borocay, Aug 30, 2013

Hello,

I recently purchased the RX 100M2, have had limited use of it so far, but time I have had with the EVF has been good. To soon to talk about quality, my PC is in the shop so can't really work the photo's. By all accounds the IQ should be better on the RX100, vs your LX7, but IQ is not everything! If so we would ALL be walking around with full frame cameras or Medium format cameras...

My advise keep the LX7 you been happy with it and you said it best.

The LX7 is more fun! For as amatures thats what should be all about!

Put the RX 100 on line, think you can make a few bucks, sounds like you got one heck of a price!

Dave

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take it slow

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to borocay, Aug 30, 2013

I was looking very seriously at the LX7 as it was one of the very few compact cameras that could shoot 1080p60 video.   Unfortunately, its lack of a flip or articulated LCD was a deal-breaker for me.

When the RX100M2 came out with its tilt LCD screen, I went for it.  Its basically the same as the RX100 except that the latter lacks WiFi, EVF capability and the tilt screen.

I'm very impressed with the RX100M2, and I've found the ergonomics to be surprisingly good with the customizable quick function menu, buttons and front control ring.   Its biggest drawback is the fact that the lens is much slower at full telephoto than it is a wide angle.   That basically means that you don't really much if any any more DOF control at the telephoto end than you do at the wide end.   But you can get some decent subject isolation, even for moderately large subject (head and shoulders) at the wide end, which is far better than what I used to get with my previous compact camera (Canon A650).   And although the RX100 doesn't have the same zoom range, the 20MP sensor lets me crop a lot more heavily, so in practice I'm getting a very similar reach to what I was used to before.

If you do decide to keep the camera, I strongly recommend getting the Sony grip - IMHO it really improves the handling of the camera at very low cost.

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to borocay, Aug 30, 2013

I've owned the LX3, 5 and 7 and recently tried to like the XZ2 enough to keep it (that didn't work out).  In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.  Everything else goes to the Sony.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to newellj, Aug 30, 2013

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice.   I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

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spencerda
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Sean Nelson, Aug 30, 2013

Again go with which ever camera makes you feel better or enjoy more.

You have clearly been happy with the LX7, it does not become worst because another camera comes along..

Below is from a review and it gives the plus and minius of each camera..

Dave

Compared to Panasonic Lumix LX7

The Sony Cyber-shot RX100 is likely to be a strong competitor for the Lumix LX7 as it offers a larger sensor, and a similar level of control in a more compact format. Side-by-side the RX100's more compact dimensions point to a key advantage - it will fit in your shirt or trouser pocket - whereas the Lumix LX7 is by comparison a coat pocket camera.

Compactness is an important factor, but not the only one. The RX100's sensor is significantly larger than the Lumix LX7's and it boasts a much higher 20.2 Megapixel resolution which means you can get much bigger prints from the RX100, or crop them, effectively giving the RX100 a bit of a digital zoom advantage on the LX7 with no quality loss.

The RX100's lens has a maximum aperture of f1.8-4.9 which is two thirds of a stop darker than the LX7 at the wide angle lens setting and the gap widens as you zoom in. This allows the LX7 to use lower ISOs under the same conditions with the same shutter speed, especially when zoomed-in, which while not placing them neck-in-neck in effective noise, does narrow the gap. The closer focusing distance of the LX7 also allows you to achieve a shallower depth of field in macro shots, despite the RX100's bigger sensor and longer actual focal length, although the RX100 claws back some of that when it comes to portraits at more typical distances. Either way, its not a runaway lead for either model in the shallow depth of field stakes.

Like the LX7, the RX100 has a lens ring, but it's programmable and not confined to aperture adjustment. In the LX7's favour, the its dedicated aperture ring has physical 1/3rd EV click stops which give it a more positive feel. Generally, the LX7 offers more physical control options than the RX100 which lacks its thumbwheel, AF selector, aspect ratio selector and ND/Focus lever. The RX100 also lacks a hotshoe and an accessory port so there's no option to fit either an optical or electronic viewfinder as there is on the Lumix LX7.

Finally, the Cyber-shot RX100 is comfortably more expensive than the Lumix LX7. Essentially what your paying for here is the combination of a large sensor in a compact body. I don't expect there will be any shortage of people prepared to pay the price, but if absolute compactness isn't your main criterion, the Lumix LX7 offers a brighter lens and a hotshoe/accessory port with optional viewfinder for a lot less. And once again while the LX7's sensor is smaller, its much brighter lens allowed it to match or outperform the RX100 in terms of delivering a shallow depth-of-field in my tests.--
take it slow

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Clayton1985
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to borocay, Aug 30, 2013

borocay wrote:

Hi, I have owned a Panasonic LX7 for about six months and I have fallen in love with it. It is a very fun camera to use. The other day I was at Best Buy looking at cameras and I came across the RX100. I had read all of the great reviews on the camera so I was intrigued to say the least. The Best Buy guy comes by and tells me that they have an open box RX100 for sale for $460.00. That is a significant reduction off the retail price for the camera so it caught my attention to say the least. Then he tells me that he might be able to get his manager to go even lower on the price. A few minutes later he comes back and tell me he can sell it for $420.00. I couldn't pass it up so I bought it. I have used it for the past couple of days taking pictures around the house. It is a very nice camera. However, it is not as easy or fun to use as the LX7. Unfortunately, I have to come to terms that I can only keep one camera since both the LX7 and the RX100 are so similar. I hate to return such a nice camera that I got for such a cheap price, but at the same time I recognize that keeping both is foolish. I really want to keep one of them and purchase something else like a WX300 or HX50V which has a large zoom, so I can have different types of cameras for different occasions. I know this is a Sony forum so most posters will favor the RX100 but I really want some suggestions on which one to keep. Any help, suggestions, tie-breakers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

There will always be good deals if you look hard enough and have a little patience.. you might have been better off passing on this one unless you had specific issues with the LX7 that you thought the RX100 would address.

But, if you really want to evaluate both I think you need to keep the RX100 long enough to become familiar with the menus, controls, features, etc.  It's really too much to evaluate in a few days and realistically you need a month or more unless you are already familiar with Sony menus, features, etc.   It was easy for me to learn the RX100MKII but I already have a Sony camera and they are very similar in a lot of ways.   If you aren't willing to keep the RX100 long enough then I would just go ahead and return it now - especially since you haven't mentioned anything that you don't like about your LX7.

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tinpusher
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Clayton1985, Aug 30, 2013

Keep the LX7 for Macro iif that's important to you.

The user interface on the Sony is clumsy but there's no denying its IQ if you make large prints.

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to spencerda, Aug 30, 2013

That would be a snip from here: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Cyber-shot_DSC_RX100/verdict.shtml

On depth of field, compare this chart: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-coolpix-p330/images/EquivAperture.png  The Sony actually has potential for shallower depth of field through most of its range.

spencerda wrote:

Again go with which ever camera makes you feel better or enjoy more.

You have clearly been happy with the LX7, it does not become worst because another camera comes along..

Below is from a review and it gives the plus and minius of each camera..

Dave

Compared to Panasonic Lumix LX7

The Sony Cyber-shot RX100 is likely to be a strong competitor for the Lumix LX7 as it offers a larger sensor, and a similar level of control in a more compact format. Side-by-side the RX100's more compact dimensions point to a key advantage - it will fit in your shirt or trouser pocket - whereas the Lumix LX7 is by comparison a coat pocket camera.

Compactness is an important factor, but not the only one. The RX100's sensor is significantly larger than the Lumix LX7's and it boasts a much higher 20.2 Megapixel resolution which means you can get much bigger prints from the RX100, or crop them, effectively giving the RX100 a bit of a digital zoom advantage on the LX7 with no quality loss.

The RX100's lens has a maximum aperture of f1.8-4.9 which is two thirds of a stop darker than the LX7 at the wide angle lens setting and the gap widens as you zoom in. This allows the LX7 to use lower ISOs under the same conditions with the same shutter speed, especially when zoomed-in, which while not placing them neck-in-neck in effective noise, does narrow the gap. The closer focusing distance of the LX7 also allows you to achieve a shallower depth of field in macro shots, despite the RX100's bigger sensor and longer actual focal length, although the RX100 claws back some of that when it comes to portraits at more typical distances. Either way, its not a runaway lead for either model in the shallow depth of field stakes.

Like the LX7, the RX100 has a lens ring, but it's programmable and not confined to aperture adjustment. In the LX7's favour, the its dedicated aperture ring has physical 1/3rd EV click stops which give it a more positive feel. Generally, the LX7 offers more physical control options than the RX100 which lacks its thumbwheel, AF selector, aspect ratio selector and ND/Focus lever. The RX100 also lacks a hotshoe and an accessory port so there's no option to fit either an optical or electronic viewfinder as there is on the Lumix LX7.

Finally, the Cyber-shot RX100 is comfortably more expensive than the Lumix LX7. Essentially what your paying for here is the combination of a large sensor in a compact body. I don't expect there will be any shortage of people prepared to pay the price, but if absolute compactness isn't your main criterion, the Lumix LX7 offers a brighter lens and a hotshoe/accessory port with optional viewfinder for a lot less. And once again while the LX7's sensor is smaller, its much brighter lens allowed it to match or outperform the RX100 in terms of delivering a shallow depth-of-field in my tests.--
take it slow

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Sean Nelson, Aug 30, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice. I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

Actually, I forgot another positive for the LX7: the 24mm lens.  I really liked being able to get a 24mm EFOV with my LX3/LX5/LX7.  The RX100 makes up for that in many other ways, but I wish I didn't have to compromise on that.

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to tinpusher, Aug 30, 2013

If folks think the Sony UI is awkward, you haven't looked at Olympus. I would agree that Panasonic probably has the most user-friendly UI around, at least as a general matter. I don't think Sony's far behind, however, and I think the way they implemented a Quick Menu-type arrangement with the Fn button is as good as I've seen on any camera.

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borocay
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to tinpusher, Aug 30, 2013

I appreciate all of the comments. I know there is no one right answer since each camera has its positives and negatives. I don't have the time to spend in front of computers processing photos so I only shoot JPEG. I have always leaned toward Sony cameras since their in-camera processing has always produced pictures that to me look warmer with better colors and skin tones. I took my LX7 on vacation with me to Cancun a few weeks ago and it did a great job taking daylight and low light pictures outside. However, when we were in a-la-carte restaurants with low ambient lighting, the LX7 failed miserably. The camera's auto white balance was all over the place and no matter what I did I could never get a good picture.  If I didn't use a flash then my wife and kids were too dark and if I used a flash then they were all washed out due to the flash intensity.  I could never get a good balance even on manual settings. Very frustrating to say the least. It could have been me just not knowing how to set the camera up before taking the shot, but I just don't have the time or the patience to sit there for a few minutes setting the camera up while my wife and kids wait. I want to capture the moment and fiddling with the damn camera sure ruins it.  The same thing happened at a restaurant the other night. I was taking pictures of my wife with the LX7 on intelligent auto mode and the white balance on auto was all messed up. I picked up the RX100 and took the picture and it looked great. That alone is enough for me to sell the LX7 and keep the RX100. Even though I love the layout of the camera and how it feels in my hand.  It is useless to me if I can't get the shot that I want.

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elliottnewcomb
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Clayton1985, Aug 30, 2013

Clayton1985 wrote:

But, if you really want to evaluate both I think you need to keep the RX100 long enough to become familiar with the menus, controls, features, etc. It's really too much to evaluate in a few days and realistically you need a month or more unless you are already familiar with Sony menus, features, etc. It was easy for me to learn the RX100MKII but I already have a Sony camera and they are very similar in a lot of ways. If you aren't willing to keep the RX100 long enough then I would just go ahead and return it now - especially since you haven't mentioned anything that you don't like about your LX7.

I have a few short rx100 docs that may help get you up to speed faster so you can decide in your return period which to keep.

Send me your email in a private message, I will send them to you.

I miss 24mm frequently, but, no way would I go for smaller sensor to get it. Also, the supposed advantage of LX7 in low light seems to be theoretical, not real, in your experience.

LX7 is Portable, the RX100 is truly pocketable, it will be with you more (to some degree) I suspect, those few/many pics that might have been missed will be 100% better than LX7 left in the car.

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Krocket
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to elliottnewcomb, Aug 30, 2013

I also had a similar dilemma, I bought the LX7, but kept reading all the great stuff about the RX100- so I bought it too- but ended up sending it back- just felt too small for me and the LX7 WAS TAKING AWESOME SHOTS- yes, the RX100 is a very good cam, but I'm glad I kept the LX7- it has a truly amazing lens.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Krocket, Aug 30, 2013

Krocket wrote:

I also had a similar dilemma, I bought the LX7, but kept reading all the great stuff about the RX100- so I bought it too- but ended up sending it back- just felt too small for me...

I find that the add-on Sony grip makes a big difference.   Without the grip I was always worried about the smooth and weighty little camera slipping out of my fingers, and that made it more problematic to use the buttons on the rear panel.   The rubbery grip gives me a lot more confidence and seems to let me be a little bit more free in button and dial manipulation.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to newellj, Aug 30, 2013

newellj wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice. I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

Actually, I forgot another positive for the LX7: the 24mm lens. I really liked being able to get a 24mm EFOV with my LX3/LX5/LX7. The RX100 makes up for that in many other ways, but I wish I didn't have to compromise on that.

Don't forget the multi-aspect sensor, which allows a TRUE 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 shooting - NOT CROPPED. There's also a 1:1 aspect ratio but that IS cropped out of the 4:3. When you set the lens to 24mm and the aspect ratio to 16:9, you have an effective field of view of a 21mm wide angle lens, at least in terms of width - not height... The easily switchable aspect ratio is one of the HUGE points in favor of the LX7 (and LX5 before it), as is the 24mm wide end...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Ray Sachs, Aug 30, 2013

Ray Sachs wrote:

newellj wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice. I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

Actually, I forgot another positive for the LX7: the 24mm lens. I really liked being able to get a 24mm EFOV with my LX3/LX5/LX7. The RX100 makes up for that in many other ways, but I wish I didn't have to compromise on that.

Don't forget the multi-aspect sensor, which allows a TRUE 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 shooting - NOT CROPPED. There's also a 1:1 aspect ratio but that IS cropped out of the 4:3. When you set the lens to 24mm and the aspect ratio to 16:9, you have an effective field of view of a 21mm wide angle lens, at least in terms of width - not height... The easily switchable aspect ratio is one of the HUGE points in favor of the LX7 (and LX5 before it), as is the 24mm wide end...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

I always shot them native and cropped in PP.  Easier to have and not need than the other way around.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to newellj, Aug 30, 2013

newellj wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

newellj wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice. I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

Actually, I forgot another positive for the LX7: the 24mm lens. I really liked being able to get a 24mm EFOV with my LX3/LX5/LX7. The RX100 makes up for that in many other ways, but I wish I didn't have to compromise on that.

Don't forget the multi-aspect sensor, which allows a TRUE 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 shooting - NOT CROPPED. There's also a 1:1 aspect ratio but that IS cropped out of the 4:3. When you set the lens to 24mm and the aspect ratio to 16:9, you have an effective field of view of a 21mm wide angle lens, at least in terms of width - not height... The easily switchable aspect ratio is one of the HUGE points in favor of the LX7 (and LX5 before it), as is the 24mm wide end...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

I always shot them native and cropped in PP. Easier to have and not need than the other way around.

The point is that there IS no "native" - each ratio is "natively" cut out of a larger sensor. If you shoot a native 4:3 sensor and crop down to 3:2 or 16:9, you're still limite to the width of the 4:3 and all you're doing is slicing off the top and bottom. With a true multi-aspect sensor, 3:2 gives you a wider and shorter image than 4:3, and 16:9 is wider and shorter yet, but all use the same number of pixels and ALL are "native". Only 1:1 isn't - it's cropped out of 4:3. Which is why you get a wider image and wider FOV with 16:9 than 3:2, which is wider than 4:3.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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newellj
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to Ray Sachs, Aug 31, 2013

Ray Sachs wrote:

newellj wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

newellj wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

newellj wrote:

In my opinion, the only thing the LX7 offers compared to the RX100 is a cheaper purchase price (which might be enough to sway you) and an ND filter.

That ND filter is real nice. I sure wish the RX100/RX100M2 had one.

Actually, I forgot another positive for the LX7: the 24mm lens. I really liked being able to get a 24mm EFOV with my LX3/LX5/LX7. The RX100 makes up for that in many other ways, but I wish I didn't have to compromise on that.

Don't forget the multi-aspect sensor, which allows a TRUE 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 shooting - NOT CROPPED. There's also a 1:1 aspect ratio but that IS cropped out of the 4:3. When you set the lens to 24mm and the aspect ratio to 16:9, you have an effective field of view of a 21mm wide angle lens, at least in terms of width - not height... The easily switchable aspect ratio is one of the HUGE points in favor of the LX7 (and LX5 before it), as is the 24mm wide end...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

I always shot them native and cropped in PP. Easier to have and not need than the other way around.

The point is that there IS no "native" - each ratio is "natively" cut out of a larger sensor. If you shoot a native 4:3 sensor and crop down to 3:2 or 16:9, you're still limite to the width of the 4:3 and all you're doing is slicing off the top and bottom. With a true multi-aspect sensor, 3:2 gives you a wider and shorter image than 4:3, and 16:9 is wider and shorter yet, but all use the same number of pixels and ALL are "native". Only 1:1 isn't - it's cropped out of 4:3. Which is why you get a wider image and wider FOV with 16:9 than 3:2, which is wider than 4:3.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Fair enough - my bad. Please revise to read: max resolution. Looking at the specs and doing basic multiplication, I get different pixel counts for the various formats.  4x3 comes up with the highest pixel count per Panasonic's specs.

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Polariser
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Re: Keep LX7 or RX100?
In reply to borocay, Aug 31, 2013

$420 for an RX100 seems to be the full retail price - at least in HK the major electrical chain stores will go down to this now.

I was trying to choose between the LX7, ZX-2, RX100 or Ricoh GR.  RX100 won on pocket-ablity, quality of construction (made in japan)  & zoom - and price

I didn't consider the RX100 mk2 as I have no need for a flip screen and don't want to lose another (very expensive in SOny;s case) add on viewfinder.

I have an OMD & EP2 - which with a pancake can be pushed into a pocket on my shorts ... but the bulk and weight is really too much. The RX100 is really pocketable & I don't notice it so I get to take more pictures.

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