EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
tkbslc
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Re: I couldn't care less
In reply to rjjr, 8 months ago

rjjr wrote:

what users of other cameras think of the EOSM. It works for me in my situation and that's all that matters.

I don't care if a particular person hates my camera.  However, if the M gets no support (i.e. sales), then we could see the whole lineup get scrapped.    I'd really like to see some more bodies and lenses in the system at some point, so that's not good for us as owners.

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rjjr
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Thank you.
In reply to zackiedawg, 8 months ago

zackiedawg wrote:

rjjr wrote:

zackiedawg wrote:

Come on, let's not go too far in the other direction - just because there are some silly posters in the M4:3 and NEX forums who don't give respect to other mirrorless mounts

I can easily mount my Canon L lenses on the M using the EF/M adapter. Can other mirrorless systems do that? I use my 100L macro on the M at work on a daily basis.

I can't tell if you're truly asking, or being sarcastic...but yes, other mirrorless mounts generally can accommodate lenses from their manufacturer's other line via an autofocus adapter - Nikon Series One can take Nikon DSLR lenses via their FT1 adapter, Sony NEX can take Sony Alpha lenses via the LA-EA1 or LA-EA2 adapters. I think Olympus may offer, or be working on soon, some kind of 4:3 adapter.

If you mean can you mount your Canon L lenses on ANOTHER mirrorless camera, then yes - for most mirrorless mounts, there are Canon adapters - multiple types: dumb adapters which are pure manual focus, some with substitute aperture rings and others with electronic aperture control...then there are newer autofocus-capable adapters that cost more, though the autofocus is pretty slow...and finally there are the focal reducer types that can approximate the original full-frame focal of the lens while increasing the effective aperture by 1/2 stop.

These are all key selling points for mirrorless cameras in general, and the reason all mirrorless buyers should be interested in the survival and thriving of all the mounts, so we can all keep innovation coming and see mirrorless bodies continue to develop and grow in ALL brands.

I had never looked into it so I was curious.

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Clayton1985
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Re: Thank you.
In reply to rjjr, 8 months ago

rjjr wrote:

zackiedawg wrote:

rjjr wrote:

zackiedawg wrote:

Come on, let's not go too far in the other direction - just because there are some silly posters in the M4:3 and NEX forums who don't give respect to other mirrorless mounts

I can easily mount my Canon L lenses on the M using the EF/M adapter. Can other mirrorless systems do that? I use my 100L macro on the M at work on a daily basis.

I can't tell if you're truly asking, or being sarcastic...but yes, other mirrorless mounts generally can accommodate lenses from their manufacturer's other line via an autofocus adapter - Nikon Series One can take Nikon DSLR lenses via their FT1 adapter, Sony NEX can take Sony Alpha lenses via the LA-EA1 or LA-EA2 adapters. I think Olympus may offer, or be working on soon, some kind of 4:3 adapter.

If you mean can you mount your Canon L lenses on ANOTHER mirrorless camera, then yes - for most mirrorless mounts, there are Canon adapters - multiple types: dumb adapters which are pure manual focus, some with substitute aperture rings and others with electronic aperture control...then there are newer autofocus-capable adapters that cost more, though the autofocus is pretty slow...and finally there are the focal reducer types that can approximate the original full-frame focal of the lens while increasing the effective aperture by 1/2 stop.

These are all key selling points for mirrorless cameras in general, and the reason all mirrorless buyers should be interested in the survival and thriving of all the mounts, so we can all keep innovation coming and see mirrorless bodies continue to develop and grow in ALL brands.

I had never looked into it so I was curious.

Also, I believe you have an option for an adapter that supports AF with Canon lenses on NEX cameras but I'm not 100% sure and even if you can I don't know how well it works.  The Sony LA-EA2 adapter supports Sony and Minolta A mount lenses plus it adds PDAF to the NEX cameras which takes AF to another level.

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Markintosh
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Re: Thank you.
In reply to Clayton1985, 8 months ago

:)) this adapter (EOS lenses to NEX with AF function) is around $500 and incredibly slow. Not pointing, just saying: if you want to use yours existing canon lenses on small mirrorless camera — EOS-M is the way to go.

Also, I believe you have an option for an adapter that supports AF with Canon lenses on NEX cameras but I'm not 100% sure and even if you can I don't know how well it works. The Sony LA-EA2 adapter supports Sony and Minolta A mount lenses plus it adds PDAF to the NEX cameras which takes AF to another level.

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Re: Now that you mention mounts...
In reply to zackiedawg, 8 months ago

zackiedawg wrote:

...and finally there are the focal reducer types that can approximate the original full-frame focal of the lens while increasing the effective aperture by 1/2 stop.

This is one adapter that does not exist for the EOS M yet. There have been rumors that Canon would release one, and rumors that Metabones is working on one. I would love to see one of these for the M.

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Re: No respect at all
In reply to trac63, 8 months ago

trac63 wrote:

I tried to blow up my EOS-M but burned my lips on the lens mount.

I tell ya, my M gets no respect. NO respect.

It's got great autofocus though, great autofocus...it always focuses perfectly...it just finishes after the subject leaves!

And then there's the lens collection...boy I tell ya...my wife has more choices about who she sleeps with!

And that touch screen...oh boy...that touch screen has a mind of it's own. It wouldn't be so bad that my M takes random pictures while I'm walking...but does it have to take better pictures then me???

I like that it doesn't have a flash though...really like that. My wife asked me to take her picture at night, so I turned off all the lights in the house and ended up with a pitch black photograph. That's the best portrait I have of her!

The best part though is the price. The price is really great. I hear next week they'll be putting them in Cracker Jack boxes!

I'll be here all week...

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Gesture
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Re: They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to TrapperJohn, 8 months ago

Interesting.

Although EOS-M appeals more to me, it seems Nikon 1 was a much more ambitious system: new sensor; 2 models from the start; lens roadmap announced; all the colors; genuine achievements in AF and frames per second.

EOS-M is a high quality offering )especially build quality) that was easy to do: proven-existing APS-C sensor; form from Powershot compacts.  Actually, the EOS-M has less user features than entry-level P&Ss like the excellent 100HS.

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NetMage
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

I think when the EOS M came out, it was definitely a questionable product - for a pro user it lacks controls or an EVF, for a P&S upgrader it cost way too much, for most its AF was slower than the cheaper established competition.

With the price drop and AF improvement, it makes more sense as a P&S upgrader option.

A new model with the 70D sensor, more controls and an EVF would be a very interesting competitor to the SL1 and I think Canon needs to take a page from Apple here - if they don't cannibalize themselves, other manufacturers will take those customers anyway.

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Wayne Larmon
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Canon needs to take a page from Apple...
In reply to NetMage, 8 months ago

NetMage wrote:

A new model with the 70D sensor, more controls and an EVF would be a very interesting competitor to the SL1 and I think Canon needs to take a page from Apple here - if they don't cannibalize themselves, other manufacturers will take those customers anyway.

^^^This!

Wayne

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meland
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Re: They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to TrapperJohn, 8 months ago

TrapperJohn wrote:

I suspect that Canon, like Nikon, are so accustomed to focusing on each other and disregarding the niche players that this mindset extended to the EOS-M. It looks for all the world like it was designed to beat the N1 - which it does, in many respects.

EOS-M is a good platform. An interesting start. But not quite what state of the art in CSC offers. I was expecting Canon to release more lenses, and a new body with a built in VF and their newest AF technology. Not to pack up and leave.

Perhaps Canon is so accustomed to success in the DSLR field, they've forgotten what it takes to break into an established market that they don't dominate. More than just putting the Canon name on a camera. It takes a few years of losses, and a lot of effort.

I hope they continue - competition is good for all of us. But one thing is for sure - Canon won't have a presence in this new market until they start taking the real competition seriously.

And it's not Nikon.

Actually Canon considers its greatest potential threat (in cameras) to probably be from Samsung.  Not Nikon.

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SkipJG
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Re: They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to meland, 8 months ago

The "problem" with the M was that Canon waited so long to get into the game in this category that when they finally got there it was underwhelming.  It was a real problem with heightened expectations and a perceived underwhelming reality.  Now Canon did themselves no favors with the original AF speed, especially when you consider what the camera is capable of as shows by the latest firmware. Not to mention the original sky high price.  To me, those were their biggest mistakes.  And once the ball get rolling on the internet, it is so very hard to stop.

Still, the latest firmware, coupled with the fire sale prices has made this camera a viable system, at least for someone like me.  I came from mostly point and shoot experience (and mostly Canon at that), so the AF speed is not a big deal.  I have trained myself over ten years of P&S focus systems to anticipate as much as possible and to use the multiple exposure option.  But I will admit I am not a sports shooter, or an airshow shooter, etc.  I mostly take pictures of my family, landscapes and national parks.  For me, the size, or lack thereof, is a great camera to have.

PROS:

  • Camera size and weight - Great for travel and backpacking
  • Camera resolution -- A canon Rebel sensor in a slightly larger than S100 body
  • Lenses -- 18-55mm a great travel lens.  Photos look nice as well.  22mm a nice option to carry around when needing something smaller.
  • Screen -- Bright.  Touchscreen easy to use after you give it time.  So give it time!  Handy to get to menu options.
  • Price --  Hard to beat a $350 or so price for an APC sensor compact and an 18-55mm lens.

CONS:

  • Lenses  --  Only two available (@ least in US).  I'll probably end up buying the 11-22mm from a Canadian seller here this fall.  I would like a good telephoto with longer range than the 18-55mm.  I get by with a Canon EF-S adapter and the 55-250mm lens.
  • Screen --  The touchscreen is so sensitive you can make it change by accident while carrying it around.  I'm used to it and I just check prior to a shoot,and it will beep when changed.  This would be a hard one to fix.
  • Price --  Original price was a killer for it. New price is amazing but cannot be sustainable for a camera this good.  I guess it gets people into a system, which it has for me.

Those are just the highlights for me at least.  At the end of the day, get a camera you like and will use.  If you don't like it, it will just set there and not get you doing what you want which is to take photographs.  And with the M you can take great photographs.  Just look on this forum to see the proof.  Don't listen to the absolutists when reading reviews.  Very few things are black and white when it comes to cameras and this fun hobby of photography.

As for me, I'll be keeping the M and using it.  Lots!

Best Regards

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Gesture
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Re: They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to SkipJG, 8 months ago

Yes. Whilst we look for the perfect camera, the real skill and fun in photography is learning and making work the camera in hand.

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Markintosh
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Re: Canon brought a knife to a gunfight
In reply to justmeMN, 8 months ago

justmeMN wrote:

Canon should have made a mirrorless camera with a poorly designed menu system, mediocre lenses, and overly aggressive noise reduction, just like Sony NEX.

this is remind me moment from Addams Family:)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18L_X2iLmhE

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Optimus47
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Respect for a camera...?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 7 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Do I want a better EOS M camera to use...?  Better AF, lenses, user interface, etc.?  Sure!

(I doubt any new EOS M will be priced at $299...!)

On the other hand, I'm not too sure what this has to do with M43 and NEX users.

What do they have to do with EOS M users...?

Why so serious?  This has taken brand pride to a new level.

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Jefenator
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Re: Respect for a camera...?
In reply to Optimus47, 7 months ago

The OP does seem perhaps unduly concerned about respect for the EOS-M among other mirrorless users.

I'm more concerned with respect for all these cameras among consumers and pros. I very much want mirrorless to catch on and flourish - I would really hate to see it fizzle out.

Certain manufacturers are really going all out to advance the utility and viability of mirrorless. Can one honestly say that Canon has been one of them? I know they still have a good thing going with the DSLRs, but I for one am over that.

Yes, the compact, cheap, sharp EF-M lenses are very cool (all two that are currently for sale here in the US). Now how about a serious interface with more direct controls, an EVF (or at least the option to add) and a truly groundbreaking sensor? (Didn't even mention AF...) Come on, Canon - I know you can do this! Mirrorless deserves this! EF lens owners deserve this!

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