EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?

Started Aug 29, 2013 | Discussions
sneakerpimp
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Re: I couldn't care less
In reply to rjjr, Aug 29, 2013

rjjr wrote:

what users of other cameras think of the EOSM. It works for me in my situation and that's all that matters.

that right there sums it out for me... IDGAF about the haters.

i'm putting mine to good use and having a lot of fun with it despite it's flaws. there isn't an issue i haven't been able to adapt to and with the improved AF i don't miss [m]any shots.

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Gesture
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to padmasana, Aug 29, 2013

I thought reviews were quite fair and appreciative, esp. with respect to build quality, image quality, video, etc.  Samsung NX is the mirrorless that gets no respect.

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Peter63
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Re: Canon brought a knife to a gunfight
In reply to MrFlash, Aug 30, 2013

MrFlash wrote:

Canon and Nikon have completely dominated the camera market for decades. Canon, especially, was always leading the way with innovations such as USM autofocus, image stabilization and CMOS sensors. But mirrorless is sweeping the market, and the old guard at Nikon and Canon are not only late to the party, but they just don't seem to 'get it'.

The 'M' with no EVF just can't compete with the offerings from NEX, Oly or Fujifilm. Being limited by the lack of an EVF or OVF and slow AF renders the 'M' to P&S status. And the Nikon? The tiny sensor and menu based interface make it more like a toy than a serious photographic tool.

I think Canon and Nikon are relying on their established DSLR range to carry them forward. Based on their initial offerings it appears as if they just don't take 'mirrorless' seriously. Other companies, like Fujifilm, have committed to the mirrorless design and, as a result, their products have found their way into more and more working professional photographers bags.

Only time will tell whether mirrorless cameras or DSLRs will prevail and ultimately dominate the market. But, if mirrorless does prevail, senior managers from Canon and Nikon will have a lot of explaining to do to their stockholders.

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MrFlash

Canon put out a 1st generation CSC with IQ that rivals the best of the current models from others that have been at it for a while. Canon has the resources and tech to create 2nd gen that may dominate, including the best live view focus available. That is far from showing up unarmed.

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vrot01
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Re: Canon brought a knife to a gunfight
In reply to MrFlash, Aug 30, 2013

MrFlash wrote:

Canon and Nikon have completely dominated the camera market for decades. Canon, especially, was always leading the way with innovations such as USM autofocus, image stabilization and CMOS sensors. But mirrorless is sweeping the market, and the old guard at Nikon and Canon are not only late to the party, but they just don't seem to 'get it'.

The 'M' with no EVF just can't compete with the offerings from NEX, Oly or Fujifilm. Being limited by the lack of an EVF or OVF and slow AF renders the 'M' to P&S status. And the Nikon? The tiny sensor and menu based interface make it more like a toy than a serious photographic tool.

I think Canon and Nikon are relying on their established DSLR range to carry them forward. Based on their initial offerings it appears as if they just don't take 'mirrorless' seriously. Other companies, like Fujifilm, have committed to the mirrorless design and, as a result, their products have found their way into more and more working professional photographers bags.

Only time will tell whether mirrorless cameras or DSLRs will prevail and ultimately dominate the market. But, if mirrorless does prevail, senior managers from Canon and Nikon will have a lot of explaining to do to their stockholders.

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MrFlash

do you own an eos m? i have a fuji x and an eos m... the AF is pretty much a dead heat really depends on the lens used... and the eos m uses all my nice canon glass... the ovf/evf is nice on my x-pro1... but the eos m has much to offer and it is considerably cheaper (now)...

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happypoppeye
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Re: Deserves no respect
In reply to Daniel Lee Taylor, Aug 30, 2013

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

Yes, and my opinion is it's slow ...very slow.

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happypoppeye
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Re: The AF bashers deserve no respect
In reply to Markr041, Aug 30, 2013

Markr041 wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

It turns out that the current AF bashers in this thread have never owned an EOS M. A question is why they are in this forum at all.

It's not called bashing it's called opinion ...and yes, I own an EOS-M ...looks like the pro-Canon guys are a bit sensitive ...ahhhh

It's amazing how someone says it has slow AF but otherwise is a great camera and the post gets picked apart until it becomes an AF basher. Dumb, extremely dumb.

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vrot01
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Re: The AF bashers deserve no respect
In reply to happypoppeye, Aug 30, 2013

happypoppeye wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

It turns out that the current AF bashers in this thread have never owned an EOS M. A question is why they are in this forum at all.

It's not called bashing it's called opinion ...and yes, I own an EOS-M ...looks like the pro-Canon guys are a bit sensitive ...ahhhh

It's amazing how someone says it has slow AF but otherwise is a great camera and the post gets picked apart until it becomes an AF basher. Dumb, extremely dumb.

earlier you wrote "I had one and couldn't take it ...just annoying." So do you own one or did you own one?

i've used a gf3 and own a gf2... it's AF is only marginally faster than the eos m... how can you stand your gf3?

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Markr041
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Re: The AF bashers deserve no respect
In reply to happypoppeye, Aug 30, 2013

happypoppeye wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

It turns out that the current AF bashers in this thread have never owned an EOS M. A question is why they are in this forum at all.

It's not called bashing it's called opinion ...and yes, I own an EOS-M ...looks like the pro-Canon guys are a bit sensitive ...ahhhh

It's amazing how someone says it has slow AF but otherwise is a great camera and the post gets picked apart until it becomes an AF basher. Dumb, extremely dumb.

From your quotes above: "But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M"

You think that is a reasonable statement that does not deserve a response from people who actually have a lot of experience with the EOS M, and many other cameras? And the person making it has no axe to grind? Sounds like gratuitous bashing to me. What motivates such anger, at a camera?

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Re: Deserves no respect
In reply to happypoppeye, Aug 30, 2013

happypoppeye wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

Yes, and my opinion is it's slow ...very slow.

You're entitled to your opinion. But so are the majority of M owners who disagree. You can't expect to post an opinion that contradicts most people's experience and not receive criticism.

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areichow
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to Gesture, Aug 30, 2013

I'd have to agree with you there, especially when you look at the ratings that the NX lenses get at DXO. It isn't everything, but for what they cost they're very good, competitive with lenses that cost quite a bit more.

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wfektar
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How do I put this nicely?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, Aug 30, 2013

EvokeEmotion wrote:

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Are you really so emotionally committed to a piece of gear? Or to a label on the piece of gear?

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LiquidSilver
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Does Canon really want to make a respectable mirrorless? (nt)
In reply to EvokeEmotion, Aug 30, 2013
No text.
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TrapperJohn
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They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to MrFlash, Aug 30, 2013

I suspect that Canon, like Nikon, are so accustomed to focusing on each other and disregarding the niche players that this mindset extended to the EOS-M. It looks for all the world like it was designed to beat the N1 - which it does, in many respects.

EOS-M is a good platform. An interesting start. But not quite what state of the art in CSC offers. I was expecting Canon to release more lenses, and a new body with a built in VF and their newest AF technology. Not to pack up and leave.

Perhaps Canon is so accustomed to success in the DSLR field, they've forgotten what it takes to break into an established market that they don't dominate. More than just putting the Canon name on a camera. It takes a few years of losses, and a lot of effort.

I hope they continue - competition is good for all of us. But one thing is for sure - Canon won't have a presence in this new market until they start taking the real competition seriously.

And it's not Nikon.

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Timur Born
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Re: They were focused on the wrong competition.
In reply to TrapperJohn, Aug 30, 2013

"Rodney Dangerfield... There goes the neighborhood.”

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trac63
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No respect at all
In reply to EvokeEmotion, Aug 30, 2013

I tried to blow up my EOS-M but burned my lips on the lens mount.

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justmeMN
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Re: Canon brought a knife to a gunfight
In reply to MrFlash, Aug 30, 2013

Canon should have made a mirrorless camera with a poorly designed menu system, mediocre lenses, and overly aggressive noise reduction, just like Sony NEX.

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sneakerpimp
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, Aug 30, 2013

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

me too lol

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fredlatchaw
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Re: How do I put this nicely?
In reply to wfektar, Aug 30, 2013

wfektar wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Are you really so emotionally committed to a piece of gear? Or to a label on the piece of gear?

This is how I feel when I run across attitudes like the OP's.

What people amazingly forget is that the EOS M is a first-generation product.

  • The first generation EOS (650 and 620) were not impressive cameras. EOS is currently one of the dominant camera systems available.
  • The Powershot G1 was not a particularly interesting camera. Later versions sold rather better.
  • Canon's first DSLRs were, well, not nearly as good as their current models.

I bought the M because it suited me. I liked the IQ, I was not put off by stories of bad AF, the price was right, etc. I never looked at NEX, m43, or any of the others, I just never cared. Other manufacturers have put some very interesting features into their cameras, features I would love to see in upcoming Ms, but I'm not going to stamp my feet and pitch a fit if the next M doesn't make Sony fanboys green with envy, I just don't care what others think.

I was heavily invested in Canon FD when they dropped the mount and started pushing EOS. I was upset, at first, especially as their first EOS were nothing to write home about. But then I realized that my T90 and F-1 were perfectly capable cameras regardless of what new features were available on other models. And so I stopped caring what others think. And I still shoot with T90s and F-1s.

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zackiedawg
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Re: Now that you mention mounts...
In reply to rjjr, Aug 30, 2013

rjjr wrote:

zackiedawg wrote:

Come on, let's not go too far in the other direction - just because there are some silly posters in the M4:3 and NEX forums who don't give respect to other mirrorless mounts

I can easily mount my Canon L lenses on the M using the EF/M adapter. Can other mirrorless systems do that? I use my 100L macro on the M at work on a daily basis.

I can't tell if you're truly asking, or being sarcastic...but yes, other mirrorless mounts generally can accommodate lenses from their manufacturer's other line via an autofocus adapter - Nikon Series One can take Nikon DSLR lenses via their FT1 adapter, Sony NEX can take Sony Alpha lenses via the LA-EA1 or LA-EA2 adapters.  I think Olympus may offer, or be working on soon, some kind of 4:3 adapter.

If you mean can you mount your Canon L lenses on ANOTHER mirrorless camera, then yes - for most mirrorless mounts, there are Canon adapters - multiple types: dumb adapters which are pure manual focus, some with substitute aperture rings and others with electronic aperture control...then there are newer autofocus-capable adapters that cost more, though the autofocus is pretty slow...and finally there are the focal reducer types that can approximate the original full-frame focal of the lens while increasing the effective aperture by 1/2 stop.

These are all key selling points for mirrorless cameras in general, and the reason all mirrorless buyers should be interested in the survival and thriving of all the mounts, so we can all keep innovation coming and see mirrorless bodies continue to develop and grow in ALL brands.

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Markintosh
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Re: I couldn't care less
In reply to rjjr, Aug 30, 2013

rjjr wrote:

what users of other cameras think of the EOSM. It works for me in my situation and that's all that matters.

I agree all 200%. Camera and lenses are just a tools (and EOS-M is a fun one). And if respect is what you looking for (LOL) — your photos supposed to be a main criterion.

I always place black tape over camera's logo — less attraction to the camera cause more natural reaction from the people.

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Markintosh.

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