EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
EvokeEmotion
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EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
8 months ago

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

In other words, you want Canon to earn people's respect, and deliver a product that is worthy of respect-- at least in the mirrorless segment.  That sounds very reasonable and fair.  And it also might be fair to say that the EOS M wasn't quite worthy of respect.  But it was a first attempt.  You can't expect to hit a home run first time at bat.  Sometimes, you just barely make contact with the ball.  In the case of this first EOS M, they made contact with the ball, but they didn't hit it very far.

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padmasana
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

Excellent thread title, by the way.

I haven't checked in on other forums to see what's being said, but my curiosity is piqued now. Sort of like when a person knows that a thorn is sharp and still insists on touching it.

Back to cameras, though, with this being the first generation of the EOS M, I hope Canon is getting its legs underneath it with this one and will be off and running with the second iteration.

Hope it's soon. Maybe a visit to those forums will make me hope it's really, really soon.

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Jefenator
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

I try not to be a hater or a fanboy for any particular make, or to sneer at anyone else's decisions. For my current requirements, I find myself very partial to mirrorless. With their more advanced, long-term commitment to mirrorless, Sony won my business, fair and square last summer (after 11 years of shooting Canon).

I would love to see Canon earnestly try to win me back. The fire sale on the 22mm kit was a nice little present, which I am enjoying. But for my main, serious shooter, Sony remains the strongest contender by far. The M does currently serve as a constant companion, but each candid shot missed and/or OOFd makes me take a harder look at the Olympus MFT alternatives.

It will likely be a while before my next big purchase. Hopefully in that time, Canon will step up their mirrorless game and make the decision difficult - I really would like that.

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Jefenator
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

No respect, I get no respect at all - my owner says I'm the first one he reaches for... when he's looking for a paperweight!! 

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Marco Nero
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

With the EF-M lenses, that might occasionally happen because they are pretty compact and the unit is less recognizable unless you see the Canon logo.  But stick an L-Lens on it and people give you a double-take.  They recognize the L-Lens but they then wonder what the camera is that you are using it with.  Most of the shutterbugs I bump into will assume automatically that the body must be a good one if I've stuck an obscenely expensive lens on the end of it. But as I tell them (if they ask), the results from the native EOS-M lenses are just as good, if not smaller and even more affordably priced.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

The M produces results indistinguishable from other APS-C DSLRs so there's not all that much for them to whine about.  Could also be a case of 'sour grapes' since the price of the EOS-M dropped so far.  But Canon were certainly late to the Mirrorless party.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

Well, I imagine that going to someone else's house and telling them that their loungeroom smells is going to trigger some defensive reactions from them.  Most of the mirrorless crowd had good reason to adopt the other models before Canon came along with one of their own.  And they will now feel a need to justify their "other model" mirrorless cameras now.  Personally, I've never felt a need to visit the other forums unless I have a specific question about another brand that I need answered.  Otherwise, it might come across as "trolling" if you went to another mirrorless forum and showed them up.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

With Canons track record, they may not resort to anything over-the-top-amazing but I anticipate they'll produce some solid, sound products to do battle with.  If you put too much whizz-bang into a product, you know the shelf life is about two or three months before the competition pull off their own coup.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

They should drop their jaws already - especially when NEX users are claiming to get better results in some instances from the EOS-M.  But it's still early days.  We'll just have to wait for the EOS-M's second generation of cameras to be released in order to see what will happen. 
.
I still have friends and family asking why I don't use a DSLR body but I remind them that the EOS-M is a "fun camera" to use... so that's why I keep using it.  They usually like the shots too so that shuts them up.

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rjjr
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I couldn't care less
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

what users of other cameras think of the EOSM.  It works for me in my situation and that's all that matters.

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Why do you care?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

Their loss.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

So they trash the camera, and then when someone offers factual correction or another opinion, they trash said person. Meaning they are irrational dolts. Why do you care what irrational dolts think?

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

I just want to see those things because they would be useful to me as a photographer.

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Dedcakes
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws

Even if the M cost upwards to $1299 and the best M43 and NEX bodies were priced under $400, the M would still be the best camera. We would have all bought the M over a $299 GX7; it's a no brainer. Even if the M was around $1000, you essentially have all of the features a pro photography would need at the fraction of the cost!

Who needs a FF sensor anyway? Mirrorless is superior, due to its compact size and touch focus, for any photographer and the M is class leading.

And finally all those M43 gearheads are ignorant of the fact that the APS-C sensor is LARGER than M43. Obviously the M is better! I'm not sure about the NEX but based on pictures I've seen it must be smaller. Also, NEX E mount hardly has any lenses. Both systems are dying and are not profitable.

Canon will soon release two new bodies and several new lenses, don't worry! Everyone will own and be using an M in a year and you'll no longer need to tell others "I told you so!" Even pros! There's a Pro-M on the way with the 70D technology and I expect every fashion and sports photographer to realize that mirror less is best when this happens.

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Nigel Wilkins
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Re: EOS M: Rodney Dangerfield of mirrorless?
In reply to Dedcakes, 8 months ago

Dedcakes wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws

Even if the M cost upwards to $1299 and the best M43 and NEX bodies were priced under $400, the M would still be the best camera. We would have all bought the M over a $299 GX7; it's a no brainer. Even if the M was around $1000, you essentially have all of the features a pro photography would need at the fraction of the cost!

Who needs a FF sensor anyway? Mirrorless is superior, due to its compact size and touch focus, for any photographer and the M is class leading.

And finally all those M43 gearheads are ignorant of the fact that the APS-C sensor is LARGER than M43. Obviously the M is better! I'm not sure about the NEX but based on pictures I've seen it must be smaller. Also, NEX E mount hardly has any lenses. Both systems are dying and are not profitable.

Canon will soon release two new bodies and several new lenses, don't worry! Everyone will own and be using an M in a year and you'll no longer need to tell others "I told you so!" Even pros! There's a Pro-M on the way with the 70D technology and I expect every fashion and sports photographer to realize that mirror less is best when this happens.

I think you need to change your rose-tinted glasses!

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happypoppeye
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Deserves no respect
In reply to EvokeEmotion, 8 months ago

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M ...I think people really expect more from Canon than an AF system that is slower than anything two decades ago. I had one and couldn't take it ...just annoying.

...and that said, IQ is fantastic and, other than the AF, its a spectacular camera ...and for a lot of uses the AF is a non-issue for many people because it is very accurate, just slow. Personally, I think both Canon and Nikon need to wake up and not sure why you are so pro-Canon but m43 and NEX have their advantages and watch out for Panasonic, Samsung and Sony in the future if for nothing else than they have money ...lots of money.

The M deserves no respect except on the IQ. Other than that, you think it get respect just because its a Canon? F that...

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FJG3
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Re: I couldn't care less
In reply to rjjr, 8 months ago

rjjr wrote:

what users of other cameras think of the EOSM. It works for me in my situation and that's all that matters.

Agree 100%. The M is a neat camera and I love it "so there!"

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zackiedawg
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In reply to Dedcakes, 8 months ago

Dedcakes wrote:

Even if the M cost upwards to $1299 and the best M43 and NEX bodies were priced under $400, the M would still be the best camera. We would have all bought the M over a $299 GX7; it's a no brainer. Even if the M was around $1000, you essentially have all of the features a pro photography would need at the fraction of the cost!

Who needs a FF sensor anyway? Mirrorless is superior, due to its compact size and touch focus, for any photographer and the M is class leading.

And finally all those M43 gearheads are ignorant of the fact that the APS-C sensor is LARGER than M43. Obviously the M is better! I'm not sure about the NEX but based on pictures I've seen it must be smaller. Also, NEX E mount hardly has any lenses. Both systems are dying and are not profitable.

Come on, let's not go too far in the other direction - just because there are some silly posters in the M4:3 and NEX forums who don't give respect to other mirrorless mounts (and believe me, there are just as many NEX users slagging M4:3 users, and M4:3 users slagging NEX users), doesn't mean the Canon EOS-M forum needs fan-boys slagging off on M4:3 and NEX to get even. They're ALL good systems, all have some nice advantages over DSLRs and larger bodies, and have some disadvantages too. And we all buy into mirrorless cameras for very similar reasons, whether we pick Sony, Oly, Panny, Canon, Samsung, Nikon, or Fuji. There's just no reason to be 'against' another mirrorless mount...we're all in the same boat together, so let's talk about the things we ALL like about mirrorless and share.

The M4:3 shooters are perfectly aware of their sensor size...there's nothing wrong with the M4:3 sensor. It's a bit smaller, but for most shooting needs, it will do an equally good job.

The NEX is NOT a smaller sensor - it's APS-C with a 1.5x crop. And the eMount does not have 'hardly any lenses'...in fact it has 21 autofocus lenses available in eMount currently. That's not 'hardly any lenses'...that's a solid start for a 3 year old system.

No matter which mirrorless mount you choose, you have essentially all the features a pro photographer would need...the same goes for nearly any APS-C DSLR. Pro bodies aren't about having more 'features' - they're about having a bigger sensor - and yes, for extreme needs there is simply no substitute for a massive sensor, big bodies with good ergonomics and excellent controls, hardy builds that can withstand elements and abuse, and a 24-hour service lifeline exclusive to pro-body owners who need field service and emergency service - that's what they're paying thousands for.

Mirrorless cameras are all very capable, very compact, and very cool. They're not pro bodies as they're not meant to be. There can be 'semi pro' or upgrade mirrorless bodies - NEX, Fuji, and M4:3 all have them, and Canon may also join in with a higher-spec M body. The more the merrier.  As for profitability - NO mirrorless mount is profitable yet. But it certainly would be a good thing for ALL of us as mirrorless shooters to see these mounts succeed. Why would any EOS-M buyer want the other mirrorless mounts to fail? Why would NEX or M4:3 buyers want the Canon mount to fail? All mirrorless mounts are new, and all struggling to find their footing - it behooves all of us to see these mounts be successful, and carve out a niche in the marketplace, because we ALL enjoy what mirrorless brings to the table, and would love to have many choices available to us, and plenty of competition to keep innovation and improvement coming. Many of us shoot DSLRs AND mirrorless systems, and want to see BOTH types of camera thrive...not everyone thinks in live-or-die terms with regards to other mirrorless systems, or DSLRs and mirrorless systems. Live and live is the best possible scenario for DSLRs and all mirrorless systems.

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vrot01
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Re: Deserves no respect
In reply to happypoppeye, 8 months ago

happypoppeye wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M ...I think people really expect more from Canon than an AF system that is slower than anything two decades ago. I had one and couldn't take it ...just annoying.

...and that said, IQ is fantastic and, other than the AF, its a spectacular camera ...and for a lot of uses the AF is a non-issue for many people because it is very accurate, just slow. Personally, I think both Canon and Nikon need to wake up and not sure why you are so pro-Canon but m43 and NEX have their advantages and watch out for Panasonic, Samsung and Sony in the future if for nothing else than they have money ...lots of money.

The M deserves no respect except on the IQ. Other than that, you think it get respect just because its a Canon? F that...

not one poster mentioned fuji and the x line of cameras... now those are great little cameras that get no respect...

"I get no respect. The way my luck is running, if I was a politician I would be honest." -Rodney Dangerfield

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Markr041
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Desrves no respect? hyperbole: AF is actually good
In reply to happypoppeye, 8 months ago

happypoppeye wrote:

EvokeEmotion wrote:

Canon's mirrorless gets no respect anywhere, it seems.

I've been reading the other mirrorless forums and when people compare the different formats of mirrorless, the M is always dismissed, trashed and laughed at, if not blatantly ignored by non M owners.

When one of the regulars of the M forum try to defend it, they get the same treatment from these people as well.

I just wish Canon will strike back with a vengeance, releasing M bodies with blindingly fast AF, faster than any mirrorless out there, and other goodies. I also hope they release a slew of excellent EF-M primes and zooms with prices in line with the current EF-M lenses.

In other words, I want to see those arrogant M43 and NEX users drop their jaws.

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M ...I think people really expect more from Canon than an AF system that is slower than anything two decades ago. I had one and couldn't take it ...just annoying.

...and that said, IQ is fantastic and, other than the AF, its a spectacular camera ...and for a lot of uses the AF is a non-issue for many people because it is very accurate, just slow. Personally, I think both Canon and Nikon need to wake up and not sure why you are so pro-Canon but m43 and NEX have their advantages and watch out for Panasonic, Samsung and Sony in the future if for nothing else than they have money ...lots of money.

The M deserves no respect except on the IQ. Other than that, you think it get respect just because its a Canon? F that...

When you say AF is slow, what mode are you using? Did you know that AF single-zone is much faster than multizone? That focus tracking is also faster?

I have not found the AF to be slow, and I have carried out tests:

Here are two:

AF tracking - focus pulls in real time:

https://vimeo.com/70453609

AF single zone, from close to far in dim light (ISO6400):

https://vimeo.com/73271316

This seems like perfectly good AF performance to me (more than good). Now, if you want to say that AF is not good based on these demonstrations, fine; then we know about what standards you have (unrealistic?).

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dual12
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Re: Desrves no respect? hyperbole: AF is actually good
In reply to Markr041, 8 months ago

That is slow focus, and it's video.  Plenty of people expect near instantaneous focus when they shoot stills, especially if they have a dslr that provides that.

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Markr041
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70D compared with EOS M AF
In reply to dual12, 8 months ago

dual12 wrote:

That is slow focus, and it's video. Plenty of people expect near instantaneous focus when they shoot stills, especially if they have a dslr that provides that.

It is near instantaneous in the video, what are you talking about? You do understand what a focus pull is, right? I first focus on one object, then I wait about 5 second (I wait, not the camera) and then I put my finger on another spot on the lcd - and bang, it goes right there. The delay is me, not the camera. It moves the focus to what I want and when I want, near instantaneously.

Look at the second video, where I just move the camera and the camera changes the focus. There you see any actual camera delay (shifting from 3 inches to 5 feet).

Here is the same test (not carried out by me) using the new Canon 70D DSLR, which is the fastest focusing of any Canon:

Canon 70D:

http://vimeo.com/73001832#

Canon EOS M test by me to replicate above, but in worse light:

https://vimeo.com/73271316

Do you see a big difference in performance? I do see a difference, but they are amazingly close.

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dual12
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Re: 70D compared with EOS M AF
In reply to Markr041, 8 months ago

Again, it's video.  Most people buy the EOS M for stills, and for that purpose, the focus is SLOW.

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Re: 70D compared with EOS M AF
In reply to dual12, 8 months ago

dual12 wrote:

Again, it's video. Most people buy the EOS M for stills, and for that purpose, the focus is SLOW.

No it's not. The 22mm lens is a bit sluggish in the AF department, but that seems to be the lens. AF with the 18-55 is snappy and confident. It's not the fastest focusing camera in the world, but it is not slow with firmware 2. I can think of some DSLR / lens combos that are much slower.

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Daniel Lee Taylor
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Re: Deserves no respect
In reply to happypoppeye, 8 months ago

happypoppeye wrote:

Everyone does that everywhere on the different forums here. But, that said, the M does not deserve any respect with that AF speed ...and Canon should be absolutely ashamed of the M

Have you ever actually used one with firmware 2 for any length of time?

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