Let's be clear, the ONLY thing about E-M1 that matters is...

Started Aug 28, 2013 | Discussions
sderdiarian
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Re: Olympus needs to aim for a broader market
In reply to Olymore, Aug 31, 2013

Olymore wrote:

Some of us wanted a small version of an Ex camera and that is what we're getting. Similar to the OM series that were very rugged and used in hostile environments all over the world.

I'm an OM (the real OM) user of old, as I suspect you may be as well, and they were excellent cameras known for the qualities you mentioned.  Small bodies and lenses of high quality design and performance that you could take anywhere.

They've now apparently introduced their modern interpretation of an OM4Ti, and at that price point.  It's also a gateway body for those of us still with a foot in the door with 4/3's lenses to join the ranks of mFT (I already have:  E-M5 and E-PM1).  This is good.

But...

They need a true successor to the E-xxx series as well.  Excellent build and all the features (including PDAF on sensor for 4/3's lenses) but sans weather sealing to hold an affordable price.  And with a true 4:3's 3" touch screen, not the silly 16:9 screen designed for video/useless for stills screen of the E-PM/PL series.

The G6 comes closest to this, but the heart of the machine is missing:  the 16 MP Sony sensor, IBIS and Olympus colors.

E-xxx (and E-xx) users continue to wait. And such a camera in the $700-800 range would also offer a bridge to mFT for those using other brand DSLR's but tired of the heft.  The big picture.

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Olymore
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Re: Olympus needs to aim for a broader market
In reply to sderdiarian, Aug 31, 2013

I still own one OM-1n and an OM-3. Even though I don't use them I can't bear to get rid of them.

This technology will appear in the lower level cameras as Olympus always re-uses their sensors this way.

You may not get something as cheap as the E5xx if you want the dSLR form factor but I would be surprised if the E-M5 replacement didn't have the ability to focus PDAF lenses.

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Godfrey
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Re: Let's be clear, the ONLY thing about E-M1 that matters is...
In reply to peevee1, Aug 31, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

... its AF tracking speed.

If it can do reliable 9+ fps tracking with 90-20/2.8, it competes with $6,700 1Dx (+ $13K 200-400/4 1.4 Extender to replace that $6,000 90-250).

If it can only do 4 fps or not reliable, it competes with $1,500 6D or even cheaper 70D/D7100 (and loses to the latter for the sports, and there are other cameras like E-M5 which are perfectly good if you don't need sports).

Well, it's an amusing thought.

I don't think I've ever used AF tracking. I only occasionally shoot continuous sequences. Neither make it to my top 50 list of "most important things" in a camera, never mind "ONLY."

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cameron2
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Re: Let's be clear, the ONLY thing about E-M1 that matters is...
In reply to Ejvaccaro, Aug 31, 2013

Ejvaccaro wrote:

If the rumor reports are true then the E-M1 focuses as fast with most 4/3 lenses as it does with m4/3 lenses and somewhat better then the E-5. If this holds true in testing, then they got the on chip PDAF right. CDAF with the new 12-40 is rumored to be very fast as well.

If the PDAF is faster than the E-5, then there will be a line at the door for this camera! (At least for the various people still holding Oly E cameras and glass.)

There has been nothing that I have come across posted about C-AF capabilities. We are going to have to wait & see on this one. However, the if E-M1 can successfully manage tracking countinuous autofocus at high frame rates and has the IQ and dynamic range found in the E-P5 then Olympus has a real winner on its hands that may prove to be more signficant than the E-M5.

It's obvious that is the goal (and not just for Oly!), although it'll be interesting to see how many revisions it takes to get there. Look at IBIS as an example, and it took years to "perfect" it, culminating with the EM5.

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Pete Berry
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Re: Out of focus images are not sharp//.
In reply to RBFresno, Aug 31, 2013

I'd say it's a little too soon to evaluate the E-M1's C-AF, but I expect it will be improved over the E-3/E-5, from which I've seen some very nice BIF in the past.

Pretty nice photos you have there, but way too small to evaluate critical sharpness, extent of over-sharpening, noise.

PB

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Yxa
Yxa
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Re: The difference isn't nearly as obvious as it once was
In reply to TrapperJohn, Aug 31, 2013

TrapperJohn wrote:

In the old days of 5D vs E1, the larger sensor was better in just about any photograph. These days, you have to be in a very demanding situation, or claim to have a demanding situation, to notice any serious difference.

At the low to mid ISO's, up to 3200, I don't see much difference between the EM5, the 5Dxxx the D800, 1Dx or Dx, at least by DPR's comparitive images. That's not true under all situations, the dpr image is a limited one, but the hard fact is: years ago, 5D vs E1 in the dpr images showed a big difference in IQ, whereas EM5 vs contemporary FF today using the same scene doesn't show much if any difference. Don't take my word for it - go look for yourself.

MP difference? 5mp E1 to 10mp 5D made a huge difference. 16mp EM5 to 20mp 5DIII... meh. Even the 32mp D800... who among us actually has a use for 32mp, when most photos are displayed as web images at around 2-3mp?

ISO difference? E1 was noisy beyond ISO400, while 5D was clean to 800, cleanable at 3200. My EM5 is clean to 3200, cleanable at 6400. How many of us have a practical use for ISO57600? Not many.

Shadow noise? Not on my EM5. Looks great, as is the ability to really crank shadows and highlights. I see why FF owners of years past really raved about the PP headroom. This is sweet. You potential EM1 owners are going to love this PP headroom.

Shallow DOF? Quite true, until you go to long tele, and that shallow DOF becomes a real problem. You buy a $5k 300 F2.8, but have to stop it down to 5.6 just to get enough DOF back. That was an expensive exercise. The same holds true with lesser force for very close macro - 4/3's deeper DOF is a real bonus there.

And size... I've used a 1DsIII. With grip and fast L glass, it is not small. Great setup, unbelievable C-AF, but geez, it's like holding a cinderblock up to your face. I'm in good shape, but even I can see the advantages of the sleek little EM5 as compared to that monster.

True the EM5 won't shoot at ISO100. I can spend $7k to get a pro grade FF body and glass. Or I can spend $50 on a set of ND filters.

Another bonus for the EM5: it's 5 axis IBIS is more effective for both stills and video than the OIS that Canon and Nikon stiff their customers for. In all fairness, the extra bulk and weight probably add to the FF system's stability, so maybe they're about even with that factored in. You still have to pay for OIS on lenses.

I fully concede that the pro grade FF bodies are very good tools, superior to the EM5 in many ways. They're also huge, as is the glass, both are very expensive. DR on both FF and EM5/EM1 are very good, to where further improvement is hard to notice. Current sensor tech has boosted both FF and 4/3 sensors so far that the old two stops advantage doesn't come into play in any but very rare situations. Is it worth the difference in size, weight, and price?

The answer to that is not nearly as clear cut as it once was. If my experience with EM5+ZD zooms is any indication, the EM1+ZD glass will only blur that dividing line even further.

The Nikon has 36 Mp last time I looked

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sderdiarian
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Re: The difference isn't nearly as obvious as it once was
In reply to Yxa, Aug 31, 2013

You had to copy that entire post to say that?

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sderdiarian
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Re: Let's be clear, the ONLY thing about E-M1 that matters is...
In reply to Godfrey, Aug 31, 2013

Godfrey wrote:

I don't think I've ever used AF tracking. I only occasionally shoot continuous sequences. Neither make it to my top 50 list of "most important things" in a camera, never mind "ONLY."

But there are a great many photographers for whom an IL camera is not close to complete unless it can track action decently.

And this group will assuredly grow as boomers increasingly retire with new found time on their hands to enjoy nature photography (birds in flight) and sports (grandchildren). A light and small bodied IL camera that excels at tracking action would be exactly what this group is looking for (myself among them).

Canikon currently has a lock on this growing market, as I'm sure Olympus has taken notice.

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Melte
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Re: Let's be clear, the ONLY thing about E-M1 that matters is...
In reply to sderdiarian, Aug 31, 2013

+1

....and playing dogs...

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Cheers, Erik

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BJL
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Re: good fast S-AF with my Four Thirds (SLR) lenses is what I most hope for
In reply to peevee1, Sep 1, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

BJL wrote:

Different people have different needs for PDAF: owners of Four Thirds SLR lenses like the 14-54, 50-200, 12-60 want them to function "normally" including AF: beyond that, high frame-rate tracking AF matters a lot to some, but little or at all to others like me.

Sure. But if it does not matter, there are other, cheaper and/or cameras for you.

No, there are none that give my good fast AF with my Four Thirds SLR lenses, while having a good up-to-date sensor and ability to also work with my MFT lenses.

If E-M1 does not provide it, it looks just a slightly improved revision of E-M5 ...

with well over $1000 worth of nice 4/3 SLR lenses, the addition of good fast S-AF is far more than a slight improvement for me; it is a big improvement over every other MFT camera in existence --- and a big improvement over any Four Thirds SLR due to its newer, far better sensor and ability to work with my MFT lenses too.

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Smaller lenses, better in low light, more telephoto reach:
you can have any *two* at one time.

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