M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
peppermonkey
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If they had the proper library of apps ready...
In reply to peevee1, 11 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

The Samsung Galaxy NX is going to have a suggested retail price of $1,599, which just might be more expensive than the "pro-level" Olympus E-M1 or the Panasonic GX7.

Interesting concept, total failure to price it correctly. No pro will buy it, no enthusiast with large stores of lenses, and for occasional buyer it is $1000 too high.

the Galaxy NX could have been interesting. But if they aren't going to develop those software then they would need third-party developers to do it, and I just don't see many would until there is enough NX's in the market...

i.e. Galaxy NX needs third-party apps in order to sell well, third-party app developers need many NX's to be sold to develop those apps... Chicken and Egg problem.

And then there is the price...it's probably $600 too high...they should have started out smaller and tried selling cheaper, less featured models to get the market share first. Course, the problem with Samsung is more about brand recognition than anything else so they could be getting desperate right now...

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walkaround
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Putting "Pro" in the name doesn't change the cheap feel.
In reply to peppermonkey, 11 months ago

I'm not impressed. For the money I expected them to feel and look better than the other cameras out there, but they don't. I'm sorry if that upsets your worldview.

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peppermonkey
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Confused...
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

Why are we even bothering to compare the Oly 75mm with the Nikon 85mm?

Do people buy lenses more for it's DOF (bokeh) and light gathering capabilities (i.e. noise) or do they buy lenses for focal length and speed? Because I'm definitely in the latter...in which case 85mm Nikon regardless of price and quality, just isn't something I would use to compare with the Oly 75mm.

Dennis wrote:

wolfie wrote:

First remember the fact that a FF 85mm is not an equivalent to the M43 75mm, (that would be a nearly a 42.5mm in M43), so try the comparison to a 150mm f1.8 lens from the FF crowd (if you can find one) and see how the price, size and image quality compare.

Sigh ...

I read over and over again how tired m43 users are tired of the "Equivalence brigade" coming in here to correct things that m43 users supposedly know by heart, and yet I keep reading total nonsense like this whenever I visit this forum

So ... forget equivalence for a moment and consider that the OP was comparing m43 to NEX. Granted, there isn't an 85/1.8 that fits NEX right now, but lets at least move over to another APS-C platform ... like Nikon DX. I'm using an inexpensive 85/1.8 on Nikon DX with a sensor that's reasonably close to m43. It's a great lens at $500 and compares favorably.

The fact is that m.zuiko 75mm has got universally very good reviews and DXO scores. The lens rental guy pulled one apart and said the all metal internal construction was as good if not better than canon L glass or nikon pro range lenses. Quality costs extra, and as most of us know, the price line to better build can only go up.

Yes, I agree that the Oly is likely better built and very satisfying to use. The Nikon feels like a consumer grade lens (though to be honest, I'm not sure I'd voluntarily spend a lot more money, given that there's nothing wrong with the build of the Nikon).

Please spare us the pontifications when you cant even the basic facts straight.

Mmmm ... yeah, I won't go there for fear of incurring the wrath of the "We don't need no stinking equivalence" brigade.

(Even if you want to ignore light-gathering (AKA noise) people buy these lenses for shallow DOF and even the "f/1.8 is f/1.8" crowd has to acknowledge that you don't need a 150/1.8 on FF to match 75/1.8.

- Dennis

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to jagge, 11 months ago

jagge wrote:

Hey

Did just see the announcements from Sony and have to say that the m43 system seems more and more overpriced compared to the NEX system. See the new nex5t a very competetive sensor, and the new entry level model, with a very capable sensor as well.

Compare that to the EP5 and the GX7. I know maybe not a completely fair comparisson but not far off, the prices are though.

And the cheap sigma primes are a super match for the aps-c sensor, not as much the m43.

True.

I am a m43 supporter BUT I do think that it gets less and less competetive compared to nex.

Jakob

The NEX-5T is basically unchanged from the previous 5R (which I own) except for the addition of NF. I don't recommend the basic 3n.

Although performance of the 5T is comparable to the EP5 and the GX7, the 5T lacks some features, at 1/2 the price.

The Alpha A3000, announced yesterday (see DPR) has been officially designated to the NEX Talk Forum. It gets confusing because this is not really a NEX camera at all, although it has the e-mount. It is an assemblage of mostly the cheapest parts from alpha-DSLR and Cybershot parts bin, a fast but non-IBIS 20.1 ISO sensor and familiar menu and controls (to NEX-ers.) ISO limit 16,000. Body plastic faux-DSLR, stripper model...

.....Hmmmm....REMINDS ME OF THE LUMIX G-10 stripper!

But for only $399 including kit lens?

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DJF77
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Re: Putting "Pro" in the name doesn't change the cheap feel.
In reply to walkaround, 11 months ago

what do you mean by my "world view" ? And how could an opinion on a photography forum effect this 'world view'?

Anyway....  Looks are subjective, build quality not so. I assume by your reaction you would like a camera milled from a block of steel that weights as much as a small car.

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peppermonkey
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Huh? I could care less if it says Pro or Fisher Price...
In reply to walkaround, 11 months ago

walkaround wrote:

I'm not impressed. For the money I expected them to feel and look better than the other cameras out there, but they don't. I'm sorry if that upsets your worldview.

Upset? Hardly. I was just curious as to how it feels cheap to you.

What cameras that are much cheaper feels more 'expensive' to you?

Better built and less hollow plastic?

Maybe my sense of touch just isn't as sensitive as yours but the Fuji X100s nor the X-Pro1 feels anything that I would call as cheaply made hollow plastic...

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captura
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Re: How do glass prices compare?
In reply to pxchoi, 11 months ago

- ancient mythology:

"There's a bunch of NEX cameras and no lenses to compliment that great sensor."

There are now over 60.

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to tgutgu, 11 months ago

tgutgu wrote:

Overpriced? What a nonsense. Look at the A3000. It is horribly stripped down: no separate dial, poor NEX style controls, low resolution screen, slow frame rate. This camera is so stripped down, that it is not even worth its low price. I would rather spend a few more and get a better m4/3 camera for it. Even the lowest end m4/3 is a lot better than the A3000 and has a better value for money.

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Thomas

It certainly is. Very good 20.1 mp APS-C sensor from the a-58 SLT, easy to adapt A-body or FF lenses and hold onto with good grip for telephoto opportunities. Too bad they didn't add a flip screen and a better EVF.

I've ordered one. It comes with a black-version of the 18-55 lens which might be made in Japan. Samples are being circulated that clearly show quality which has never been achieved with the 18-55 before, even on the NEX-7.

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to Alexis D, 11 months ago

Alexis D wrote:

I agree. Smaller things cost more, if they are just as good. In this case, they (camera+lens) are even better

I believe, M43 is doing better than the other mirrorless systems, in spite of the higher prices. That shows that quality, in a small package, is still important.

I would rather that Panasonic and Olympus keep getting better and better products, like GX7, E-M1, 75mm, 12-40mm, .. out for their top products than just cater for the bargain hunters. The lower-end market is being lost as smartphones get better. So they have to move up market.

I think there is unrealistic expectations here, if you want the best and just pay the same as other less well spec'ed cameras and lenses. You can't expect to get a weatherproof camera with a huge VF-4 viewfinder, 1/8000 sec shutter etc for the same price as a NEX, do you? You can also compare lens quality. Only the Zeiss E-mount lenses can compare with the quality M43 lenses and how much do they cost? and weigh? And how many really fast lens and zooms are there for NEX? You can't have your cake and eat it.

Right now, Panasonic may be dead in the water without access to good Sony sensors. (save the GH3.)

Olympus, due to part ownership by Sony, is getting Sony sensors and looks like a winner with great quality and service. (Sony is getting Olympus' 5-axis IBIS in the coming weatherproofed NEX-7x replacement camera.)

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wolfie
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Re: Get some fact right first ...
In reply to peevee1, 11 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

wolfie wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Dennis wrote:

If you want to extend the argument, then it's fair to point out that NEX has nothing at all to compete with the excellent and fairly priced 45/1.8 and 75/1.8

No, 75/1.8 is NOT fairly priced, you can get plenty 85/1.8 covering twice the image circle at less than half the price. It is in fact one of the most overpriced m43 lenses, along with 12/2 and Pana 12-35 and 35-100 pair, at least at their prices on the US market.

Of course that's just your opinion about the price. Plenty of people have voted with their wallets and would disagree.

However you justify this opinion a on a totally flawed comparison!

First remember the fact that a FF 85mm is not an equivalent to the M43 75mm, (that would be a nearly a 42.5mm in M43),

First of all, you can put 85/1.8 on m43 and get very similar picture to what 75/1.8 gives you.

???- So you want to compare a manual focus Nikon lens on an adapter to a native AF lens??? No contest for operational performance and 99% of people would never do it - so a non starter for a comparison in reality.

So why not compare m.zuiko 45mm to the 85mm nikon?

They also have very similar design constraints, except the focusing group of m43 lens should be lighter (or focusing motor stronger), but it should not worry about quality/coverage beyond 22mm image circle while FF lens should.

And if you bring equivalence, then m32 75/1.8 is like 150/3.6 FF, and 85/1.8FF is like 42.5/0.9 m43.

No - exposure is exactly the same, not interested in DOF, this is about lens speed.

But I prefer to operate real FLs because that is what they are and very comparable in design constrains above the system's flange distances (obviously, design of FF lenses on Nikon F and Canon EF below 40mm gets complicated than the same FLs on m43).

so try the comparison to a 150mm f1.8 lens from the FF crowd (if you can find one) and see how the price, size and image quality compare.

150 f/3.6 in light gathering, with different real group distributing the same light (as 75/1.8 m43) over larger circle.

The same red herring: Exposure is exactly the same, f1.8 is f1.8 on any format. The exposure triangle doesnot alter for the same EV.

The fact is that m.zuiko 75mm has got universally very good reviews and DXO scores.

But not as good as $450 85/1.8 for FF.

But built to a far higher standard. You buy a toyota or a mercedes with same engine etc, they will be different standards and different prices. People choose accordingly.

The lens rental guy pulled one apart and said the all metal internal construction was as good if not better than canon L glass or nikon pro range lenses. Quality costs extra, and as most of us know, the price line to better build can only go up.

Sure, quality costs extra, that is why I do not suggest it should cost $200. But not $900 either. A little below Canon and Nikon 85/1.8 (given smaller FL and much smaller image circle) would be fair, $400 or so. 45/1.8 should be $150 though (see FF 50/1.8 at $99).

Please spare us the pontifications when you cant even the basic facts straight.

Which are those?

Your proclamation that the lens is NOT worth its price.

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Sosua
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It will be when
In reply to jagge, 11 months ago

They offer highly evolved IBIS and a broad selection of optically excellent, fast, very light and small prime lenses.

I will happily jump ships then.

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ThomR
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Re: I'm curious
In reply to peevee1, 11 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

ThomR wrote:

If you put the $500 Nikon 85mm lens on a new D7100 take a pic at F1.8 and then crop it down to 16MP and a 4x3 aspect ratio, how would the image compare to the Olympus 75mm lens on an E-M5 at F1.8? I have no idea, but that would be a good comparison.

It is in fact will be very very close.

I am not so sure.  Unless you have done a test we can say either way.

These companies sell items for what the market will pay. If there is less competition and no used market/supply, the prices will be high.

I am not sure what "market will pay" means.

It means they list it at a price and see if it sells.  If if does they keep that price.  I am sure they do their research too.   After a few years, like most lenses, the price drops because of the used market and costs to make the lenses drop.

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Alexis D
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to captura, 11 months ago

captura wrote:

Alexis D wrote:

I agree. Smaller things cost more, if they are just as good. In this case, they (camera+lens) are even better

I believe, M43 is doing better than the other mirrorless systems, in spite of the higher prices. That shows that quality, in a small package, is still important.

I would rather that Panasonic and Olympus keep getting better and better products, like GX7, E-M1, 75mm, 12-40mm, .. out for their top products than just cater for the bargain hunters. The lower-end market is being lost as smartphones get better. So they have to move up market.

I think there is unrealistic expectations here, if you want the best and just pay the same as other less well spec'ed cameras and lenses. You can't expect to get a weatherproof camera with a huge VF-4 viewfinder, 1/8000 sec shutter etc for the same price as a NEX, do you? You can also compare lens quality. Only the Zeiss E-mount lenses can compare with the quality M43 lenses and how much do they cost? and weigh? And how many really fast lens and zooms are there for NEX? You can't have your cake and eat it.

Right now, Panasonic may be dead in the water without access to good Sony sensors. (save the GH3.)

Olympus, due to part ownership by Sony, is getting Sony sensors and looks like a winner with great quality and service. (Sony is getting Olympus' 5-axis IBIS in the coming weatherproofed NEX-7x replacement camera.)

If that is true, and Sony catches up to Olympus in IBIS and in EVF, and weatherproofing, that's great for competition.  It's quite possible it may even get better in 1 or 2 areas in the next NEX model.  Unfortunately, Sony can never catch up in the number and quality of lenses, and especially in the size of lenses.  There are, counting the 4/3 lenses, more than 70 lenses for the E-M1.

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peevee1
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to captura, 11 months ago

captura wrote:

Right now, Panasonic may be dead in the water without access to good Sony sensors. (save the GH3.)

You forgot about GX7. Looks like they caught up with Sony at last.

Olympus, due to part ownership by Sony, is getting Sony sensors and looks like a winner with great quality and service.

What service?

(Sony is getting Olympus' 5-axis IBIS in the coming weatherproofed NEX-7x replacement camera.)

Just unfounded rumors.

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peevee1
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Re: Get some fact right first ...
In reply to wolfie, 11 months ago

wolfie wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

wolfie wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Dennis wrote:

If you want to extend the argument, then it's fair to point out that NEX has nothing at all to compete with the excellent and fairly priced 45/1.8 and 75/1.8

No, 75/1.8 is NOT fairly priced, you can get plenty 85/1.8 covering twice the image circle at less than half the price. It is in fact one of the most overpriced m43 lenses, along with 12/2 and Pana 12-35 and 35-100 pair, at least at their prices on the US market.

Of course that's just your opinion about the price. Plenty of people have voted with their wallets and would disagree.

However you justify this opinion a on a totally flawed comparison!

First remember the fact that a FF 85mm is not an equivalent to the M43 75mm, (that would be a nearly a 42.5mm in M43),

First of all, you can put 85/1.8 on m43 and get very similar picture to what 75/1.8 gives you.

???- So you want to compare a manual focus Nikon lens on an adapter to a native AF lens??? No contest for operational performance and 99% of people would never do it - so a non starter for a comparison in reality.

What manual focus? 85/1.8G is AF, with AF motor in the body, just like 75mm Oly. And has more glass because of longer FL and covering twice the diameter (4 times the area) of image circle = more expensive to make.

So why not compare m.zuiko 45mm to the 85mm nikon?

Why would I? Totally different costs, 85mm nikon has like 4 times the glass of the 45mm Oly.

They also have very similar design constraints, except the focusing group of m43 lens should be lighter (or focusing motor stronger), but it should not worry about quality/coverage beyond 22mm image circle while FF lens should.

And if you bring equivalence, then m32 75/1.8 is like 150/3.6 FF, and 85/1.8FF is like 42.5/0.9 m43.

No - exposure is exactly the same, not interested in DOF, this is about lens speed.

Between f/1.8 for FF and f/1.8 for m43, exposure time is the same, exposure intensity is the same (number of photons hitting each sq mm in a second, simply speaking), area of the circle is 4 times bigger on FF so 4 times more photons are hitting it in a given time, each of those photons has to be captured/transmitted/focused before hitting the sensor, so more glass is needed (they come from different angles). 4 times the photons captured and transmitted into a sensor mean 4 times higher signal from the sensor, with the same amount of read noise (which is not true in practice, but close enough) meaning 4 times higher signal-to-noise ratio, or 2 stops advantage (in theory, before the difference in technology manifests).

But I prefer to operate real FLs because that is what they are and very comparable in design constrains above the system's flange distances (obviously, design of FF lenses on Nikon F and Canon EF below 40mm gets complicated than the same FLs on m43).

so try the comparison to a 150mm f1.8 lens from the FF crowd (if you can find one) and see how the price, size and image quality compare.

150 f/3.6 in light gathering, with different real group distributing the same light (as 75/1.8 m43) over larger circle.

The same red herring: Exposure is exactly the same, f1.8 is f1.8 on any format. The exposure triangle doesnot alter for the same EV.

And FL is FL on any format, 75mm does not suddenly become 150mm and is not designed like 150/1.8, does not need as much glass as 150/1.8 and does not cost as 150/1.8, it is the same 75/1.8, you just through away 3/4 of the circle by cropping to lower format (which, if you design for a smaller format from get go, you do not even provide, making the lens even cheaper than 75/1.8 for bigger format). Sheesh, what is so hard to understand?

Sure, quality costs extra, that is why I do not suggest it should cost $200. But not $900 either. A little below Canon and Nikon 85/1.8 (given smaller FL and much smaller image circle) would be fair, $400 or so. 45/1.8 should be $150 though (see FF 50/1.8 at $99).

Please spare us the pontifications when you cant even the basic facts straight.

Which are those?

Your proclamation that the lens is NOT worth its price.

I am talking about facts. Which YOU cannot get straight.

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Abrak
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Re: Get some fact right first ...
In reply to peevee1, 11 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

wolfie wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

wolfie wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Dennis wrote:

If you want to extend the argument, then it's fair to point out that NEX has nothing at all to compete with the excellent and fairly priced 45/1.8 and 75/1.8

No, 75/1.8 is NOT fairly priced, you can get plenty 85/1.8 covering twice the image circle at less than half the price. It is in fact one of the most overpriced m43 lenses, along with 12/2 and Pana 12-35 and 35-100 pair, at least at their prices on the US market.

Of course that's just your opinion about the price. Plenty of people have voted with their wallets and would disagree.

However you justify this opinion a on a totally flawed comparison!

First remember the fact that a FF 85mm is not an equivalent to the M43 75mm, (that would be a nearly a 42.5mm in M43),

First of all, you can put 85/1.8 on m43 and get very similar picture to what 75/1.8 gives you.

???- So you want to compare a manual focus Nikon lens on an adapter to a native AF lens??? No contest for operational performance and 99% of people would never do it - so a non starter for a comparison in reality.

What manual focus? 85/1.8G is AF, with AF motor in the body, just like 75mm Oly. And has more glass because of longer FL and covering twice the diameter (4 times the area) of image circle = more expensive to make.

So why not compare m.zuiko 45mm to the 85mm nikon?

Why would I? Totally different costs, 85mm nikon has like 4 times the glass of the 45mm Oly.

They also have very similar design constraints, except the focusing group of m43 lens should be lighter (or focusing motor stronger), but it should not worry about quality/coverage beyond 22mm image circle while FF lens should.

And if you bring equivalence, then m32 75/1.8 is like 150/3.6 FF, and 85/1.8FF is like 42.5/0.9 m43.

No - exposure is exactly the same, not interested in DOF, this is about lens speed.

Between f/1.8 for FF and f/1.8 for m43, exposure time is the same, exposure intensity is the same (number of photons hitting each sq mm in a second, simply speaking), area of the circle is 4 times bigger on FF so 4 times more photons are hitting it in a given time, each of those photons has to be captured/transmitted/focused before hitting the sensor, so more glass is needed (they come from different angles). 4 times the photons captured and transmitted into a sensor mean 4 times higher signal from the sensor, with the same amount of read noise (which is not true in practice, but close enough) meaning 4 times higher signal-to-noise ratio, or 2 stops advantage (in theory, before the difference in technology manifests).

But I prefer to operate real FLs because that is what they are and very comparable in design constrains above the system's flange distances (obviously, design of FF lenses on Nikon F and Canon EF below 40mm gets complicated than the same FLs on m43).

so try the comparison to a 150mm f1.8 lens from the FF crowd (if you can find one) and see how the price, size and image quality compare.

150 f/3.6 in light gathering, with different real group distributing the same light (as 75/1.8 m43) over larger circle.

The same red herring: Exposure is exactly the same, f1.8 is f1.8 on any format. The exposure triangle doesnot alter for the same EV.

And FL is FL on any format, 75mm does not suddenly become 150mm and is not designed like 150/1.8, does not need as much glass as 150/1.8 and does not cost as 150/1.8, it is the same 75/1.8, you just through away 3/4 of the circle by cropping to lower format (which, if you design for a smaller format from get go, you do not even provide, making the lens even cheaper than 75/1.8 for bigger format). Sheesh, what is so hard to understand?

Sure, quality costs extra, that is why I do not suggest it should cost $200. But not $900 either. A little below Canon and Nikon 85/1.8 (given smaller FL and much smaller image circle) would be fair, $400 or so. 45/1.8 should be $150 though (see FF 50/1.8 at $99).

Please spare us the pontifications when you cant even the basic facts straight.

Which are those?

Your proclamation that the lens is NOT worth its price.

I am talking about facts. Which YOU cannot get straight.

Here we go! Here we go! Here we go!

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to jennajenna, 11 months ago

jennajenna wrote:

Frugaltraveler wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

Overpriced? What a nonsense. Look at the A3000. It is horribly stripped down: no separate dial, poor NEX style controls, low resolution screen, slow frame rate. This camera is so stripped down, that it is not even worth its low price. I would rather spend a few more and get a better m4/3 camera for it. Even the lowest end m4/3 is a lot better than the A3000 and has a better value for money.

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Thomas

or buy a NEX 7 for the same price as a OM-D? NEX woud be a better choice now if I didn't already have so many mu43 lenses.

does nex7 have ibis? i dont follow sony since the whole beta tape fiasco on their part...and then the minidisc disaster.

3-axis IBIS from Olympus said to be a new feature in the 7x.

The A3000 has shown some outstanding quality images in sample shots taken with both the new 16-70 E-Zeiss lens and the 18-55 kit lens. That's all that counts....it's in the sensor, Virginia!

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to LTZ470, 11 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

None of the Sony lens are in the same class as the m43 12-35, 35-100, 100-300, 75mm f/1.8, 12mm f/2 for size, quality and weight...I own the Nex-7 and several E-Mount lens, they reek of the cheap seats for sure, even the Nex-7 compared to Em-5, it just doesn't have it compared to EM5, great camera but m43's camera quality and build are a step above...

Shot the EM5 in the rain all day one day...you ain't gonna do that with a Nex...or you'll need a "nex"...next camera...

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The coming NEX-7x is said to be dustproofed..I suppose that means weatherproofed.

Some of the many lenses for E-mount NEX are excellent, and a few are good values.

Especially (both):

- E50 f1.8

- E35 f1.8

- Zeiss E16-70Z

- Sigma 19 f2.8

- Sigma 30 f30

- Sigma 60 f60

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captura
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to peevee1, 11 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

jagge wrote:

Hey

Did just see the announcements from Sony and have to say that the m43 system seems more and more overpriced compared to the NEX system. See the new nex5t a very competetive sensor, and the new entry level model, with a very capable sensor as well.

Compare that to the EP5 and the GX7. I know maybe not a completely fair comparisson but not far off, the prices are though.

You can always replace $700 (with kit zoom) Nex-5t with, I don't know, $500 GF6 or E-PL5 (or E-PL6 if it available in your country). Even $199 GX1 is not far off for a body.

And the cheap sigma primes are a super match for the aps-c sensor, not as much the m43.

Non-kit lens prices on m43 are insane. Well, NEX Zeiss 24mm is even more insane, significantly more.

I am a m43 supporter BUT I do think that it gets less and less competetive compared to nex.

Not every NEX, just NEX-6 which has become a very good value after prices fell below $800.

The 5R and 5T are the best values.

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aim120
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Re: M43 seems more and more overpriced compared to NEX
In reply to Alexis D, 11 months ago

Alexis D wrote:

captura wrote:

Alexis D wrote:

I agree. Smaller things cost more, if they are just as good. In this case, they (camera+lens) are even better

I believe, M43 is doing better than the other mirrorless systems, in spite of the higher prices. That shows that quality, in a small package, is still important.

I would rather that Panasonic and Olympus keep getting better and better products, like GX7, E-M1, 75mm, 12-40mm, .. out for their top products than just cater for the bargain hunters. The lower-end market is being lost as smartphones get better. So they have to move up market.

I think there is unrealistic expectations here, if you want the best and just pay the same as other less well spec'ed cameras and lenses. You can't expect to get a weatherproof camera with a huge VF-4 viewfinder, 1/8000 sec shutter etc for the same price as a NEX, do you? You can also compare lens quality. Only the Zeiss E-mount lenses can compare with the quality M43 lenses and how much do they cost? and weigh? And how many really fast lens and zooms are there for NEX? You can't have your cake and eat it.

Right now, Panasonic may be dead in the water without access to good Sony sensors. (save the GH3.)

Olympus, due to part ownership by Sony, is getting Sony sensors and looks like a winner with great quality and service. (Sony is getting Olympus' 5-axis IBIS in the coming weatherproofed NEX-7x replacement camera.)

If that is true, and Sony catches up to Olympus in IBIS and in EVF, and weatherproofing, that's great for competition. It's quite possible it may even get better in 1 or 2 areas in the next NEX model. Unfortunately, Sony can never catch up in the number and quality of lenses, and especially in the size of lenses. There are, counting the 4/3 lenses, more than 70 lenses for the E-M1.

Sony is also getting Olympus designed lenses although not sure whether its for NEX E-mount or A-mount.

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