NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R

Started Aug 27, 2013 | Discussions
parallaxproblem
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NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
Aug 27, 2013

The soft buttons on the back remain 'black' colour and smooth. This may look very cool but it's a nightmare in use, particularly when the screen is tilted-up, as you can't see the wretched things! Buttons were silver on previous models ('original' 5 and 5N) which was much more practical

The camera strap is mounted via 'eyelets' at the top of the camera. On the original NEX-5 and NEX-5n the straps were held in lugs on the side of the camera which meant it hung down when you had a lens on it - really a genius move as it protected the lens and gave you quick access to the camera. With these stupid eyelets the camera hangs at a sort of 45 degree angle which is both unstable and uncomfortable (banging against your chest) and less easy to access

I assumed that these were last-minute design mistakes on the 5R which never got tested or surfaced in the field, but the fact they have been held-over on the 5T shows how little effort Sony went to over the upgrade

I see a small bump on the handgrip which seems related to the NFC compatibility (I've had the Nokia 700 with NFC for two years now and never once used NFC on it), and the specs suggest triluminous compatibility with the video (this is only relevant to Sony LCD TVs), and that is it for hardware changes (and the triluminous may not even be a hardware change). If the new firmware isn't shared with existing 5R owners then it would be pretty scandalous

NEX-5T back:

NEX-5N back (note more visible soft buttons and superior strap lugs):

dpmaxwell
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me.  "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

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straylightrun
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

You can't simply feel the buttons? There's only one up and one down to the left of the wheel. This reminds me of the silly complaint DPR made about the NEX-7 when it first came out, they the left and right contextual tri-navi dials weren't labelled.

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Tone Row
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

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*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

The strap lugs are not a minor complaint. The NEX-6 which I own has the same stupid ones that rattle to high heaven which is a pain in the butt when you're trying to record. Why take the time to build lenses with silent focus and zoom only to turn around and add a couple of rattlers to it? Makes 0 sense.

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Tuloom
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

parallaxproblem wrote:

The soft buttons on the back remain 'black' colour and smooth. This may look very cool but it's a nightmare in use, particularly when the screen is tilted-up, as you can't see the wretched things! Buttons were silver on previous models ('original' 5 and 5N) which was much more practical.

3M 764

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I don't see the 'Horses for Courses' bit as neither the eyelets or the button colour situation bring anything positive to people with different requirements than me - they are genuine design mistakes (worse, they are conscious changes from the earlier model - ie. very incompetent design)

I've got a 5R and can tell you these are very annoying when you actually have to deal with them (Ken Rockwell also complained about the invisible soft buttons in his NEX-5R comments)

But what I was drawing attention to was how there isn't really any hardware upgrade at all with this camera as they haven't even fixed these issues.  Differences are basically just firmware

In such circumstances, an equivalent 5R upgrade should really be mandatory - otherwise Sony are basically trying to sell a firmware upgrade for $550 (body only)!

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dpmaxwell
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to Tone Row, Aug 27, 2013

Tone Row wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

-- hide signature --

*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

The strap lugs are not a minor complaint. The NEX-6 which I own has the same stupid ones that rattle to high heaven which is a pain in the butt when you're trying to record. Why take the time to build lenses with silent focus and zoom only to turn around and add a couple of rattlers to it? Makes 0 sense.

".. to me."

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*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

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dpmaxwell
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

parallaxproblem wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I don't see the 'Horses for Courses' bit as neither the eyelets or the button colour situation bring anything positive to people with different requirements than me - they are genuine design mistakes (worse, they are conscious changes from the earlier model - ie. very incompetent design)

I've got a 5R and can tell you these are very annoying when you actually have to deal with them (Ken Rockwell also complained about the invisible soft buttons in his NEX-5R comments)

But what I was drawing attention to was how there isn't really any hardware upgrade at all with this camera as they haven't even fixed these issues. Differences are basically just firmware

In such circumstances, an equivalent 5R upgrade should really be mandatory - otherwise Sony are basically trying to sell a firmware upgrade for $550 (body only)!

Oh sorry, on second look, you are right - they are genuine design "mistakes".  I stand corrected.  Also mistakes on the Fuji x100s, the Oly OM-D E-M5, the Nikon D600, the...

Sony designers are morons.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to straylightrun, Aug 27, 2013

straylightrun wrote:

You can't simply feel the buttons?

No you can't because they are smooth and flush with the camera back - the buttons on the original 5 are slightly textured and protrude slightly from the body so can be felt as well as seen

Ken Rockwell also complains about this (not that I have much time for him generally):

http://kenrockwell.com/sony/nex-5r.htm

quote:"Poor is that the two main menu buttons (the little ones near the top and bottom right of the rear LCD) are impossible to find by feel. They are flat black buttons flush with the flat black rear of the camera, so not only can't they be found by feel as you're looking through the viewfinder, they are also nearly impossible to find by eye while shooting with the rear LCD."

So it is a valid criticism from a known review site in the public doman and Sony have done nothing to fix it, even though a fix would be trivial (revert to buttons on NEX-5n etc)

Sure, it's not totally the end of the world (though surprisingly annoying in practice - and one of the reasons I still prefer my NEX-5 in many ways to my NEX-5R) but my point is the lack of changes in this supposedly 'new' camera release - are sony just trying to charge their customers many hundreds of dollars for a firmware upgrade?

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dpmaxwell
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to Tone Row, Aug 27, 2013

Tone Row wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

-- hide signature --

*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

The strap lugs are not a minor complaint. The NEX-6 which I own has the same stupid ones that rattle to high heaven which is a pain in the butt when you're trying to record. Why take the time to build lenses with silent focus and zoom only to turn around and add a couple of rattlers to it? Makes 0 sense.

See my prior response to the OP - you guys are right.  These are HUGE issues for which seppuku is probably warranted, for these Sony designers.  In fact seppuku may be to kind of a punishment...

Ken Rockwell, after all, apparently complained of these issues.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I don't see the 'Horses for Courses' bit as neither the eyelets or the button colour situation bring anything positive to people with different requirements than me - they are genuine design mistakes (worse, they are conscious changes from the earlier model - ie. very incompetent design)

I've got a 5R and can tell you these are very annoying when you actually have to deal with them (Ken Rockwell also complained about the invisible soft buttons in his NEX-5R comments)

But what I was drawing attention to was how there isn't really any hardware upgrade at all with this camera as they haven't even fixed these issues. Differences are basically just firmware

In such circumstances, an equivalent 5R upgrade should really be mandatory - otherwise Sony are basically trying to sell a firmware upgrade for $550 (body only)!

Oh sorry, on second look, you are right - they are genuine design "mistakes". I stand corrected. Also mistakes on the Fuji x100s, the Oly OM-D E-M5, the Nikon D600, the...

Sony designers are morons.

Kindly explain why the original NEX-5 and NEX-5N had a different (and better) configuration - the designers of these bodies must have been morons by your definition as they are different from the other manufactures!  Could you also maybe help me understand why Sony made these changes and what exactly are the advantages of the changes they made

Do you own a NEX-5 or 5n and also a NEX-5R and can you speak from experience of the impact of these changes?

Looking forward to you sharing your experience...

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

Tone Row wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

-- hide signature --

*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

The strap lugs are not a minor complaint. The NEX-6 which I own has the same stupid ones that rattle to high heaven which is a pain in the butt when you're trying to record. Why take the time to build lenses with silent focus and zoom only to turn around and add a couple of rattlers to it? Makes 0 sense.

".. to me."

Please explain what sense the changes make to you...

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Tone Row
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

Tone Row wrote:

dpmaxwell wrote:

No offense but these seem like pretty minor complaints to me. "Horses for courses", etc.

I would like to see the ability to upgrade the firmware on the 5R.

-- hide signature --

*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

The strap lugs are not a minor complaint. The NEX-6 which I own has the same stupid ones that rattle to high heaven which is a pain in the butt when you're trying to record. Why take the time to build lenses with silent focus and zoom only to turn around and add a couple of rattlers to it? Makes 0 sense.

".. to me."

-- hide signature --

*Disclaimer: the above post is just my opinion. No offense was intended. Please don't freak out - I'm just some random dude on the internet.*

You're right, it's an opinion and I should have said so. It's also my opinion that whoever likes having what amounts to dueling baby rattlers on their camera is, well, some opinions I'll keep to myself.....

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Tuloom
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

For you and Ken:

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dpmaxwell
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

Yeesh, sorry I tried to engage in conversation.  Should've let this topic die the death it was destined for in the first place.

Have a great evening..

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to Tuloom, Aug 27, 2013

Tuloom wrote:

For you and Ken:

Thank you - this is actually a constructive comment

Yes, actually I have thought about it but I'm a bit worried about it coming off on my hands and also devaluing the camera.   But my main point is why didn't Sony do this on the 5T - do you think that it is a clever idea to make the soft buttons invisible?

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Tuloom
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

parallaxproblem wrote:

Thank you - this is actually a constructive comment

Yes, actually I have thought about it but I'm a bit worried about it coming off on my hands and also devaluing the camera. But my main point is why didn't Sony do this on the 5T - do you think that it is a clever idea to make the soft buttons invisible?

It won't come off. Try the 3M tape first.

I've not needed to look at the buttons since the second week of ownership; muscle memory took over. Seriously, blindfold yourself and press the buttons a few dozen times per day.  Use the tape until you get used to it. If not, Sharpie it.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to dpmaxwell, Aug 27, 2013

dpmaxwell wrote:

Yeesh, sorry I tried to engage in conversation. Should've let this topic die the death it was destined for in the first place.

Have a great evening

Er...  I tried to engage you in conversation.  I want to know how these things can be 'Horses for Courses' as you put it, or improvements in any way....   maybe you could help me understand why Sony made these changes in the first place, and why they haven't bothered to reverse them on the 5T

I was also hoping you might share your experience of using these features on the actual cameras themselves being as you think they are so trivial - you have used a NEX-5/NEX-5N and a NEX-5R haven't you?  I mean there's no way you could have entered this thread and left your comments without any direct experience, is there?

Instead we get a(nother) 'smart' little insult and you running away with your tail between your legs.   Shame...

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headfirst
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to parallaxproblem, Aug 27, 2013

it's good production engineering for a minor model upgrade - why change any parts other than those that absolutely need to be changed. New tools  & parts cost additional money.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: NEX-5T keeps design mistakes from NEX-5R
In reply to Tuloom, Aug 27, 2013

Tuloom wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

Thank you - this is actually a constructive comment

Yes, actually I have thought about it but I'm a bit worried about it coming off on my hands and also devaluing the camera. But my main point is why didn't Sony do this on the 5T - do you think that it is a clever idea to make the soft buttons invisible?

It won't come off. Try the 3M tape first.

I've not needed to look at the buttons since the second week of ownership; muscle memory took over. Seriously, blindfold yourself and press the buttons a few dozen times per day. Use the tape until you get used to it. If not, Sharpie it.

Thanks for the suggestion about tape

Muscle memory ought to be there as I used the NEX-5 for two years before getting the 5R and the buttons are in the same place.  The problem is that I frequently hold the camera in different positions to get different angles and that's the time I find them difficult to find

Still don't understand why Sony made this change in the 5R, and even more confused why they haven't changed it in the 5T, however

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