If Apple abandoned Aperture.....

Started Aug 23, 2013 | Discussions
Graham Hill
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If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
Aug 23, 2013

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued?  I can't recall.

Howard Moftich
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to Graham Hill, Aug 23, 2013

how did they handle Final Cut Pro?

It's not like they haven't been busy w/ IOS7, Mavericks, iCloud Beta (Pages, Numbers, etc) and new hardware.

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DenWil
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Abandoned Aperture ...oh my...like a dumpster baby.
In reply to Graham Hill, Aug 23, 2013

Graham Hill wrote:

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued? I can't recall.

Abandoned? Surely you meant discontinued. Your emotional investment in a tool would be comedic if it were a toothbrush.

Yes there was an announcement when iWeb was discontinued. Approximately a year in advance. The iWeb app still functions perfectly. Even on Mountain Lion.  The sky did not fall,  chaos did not ensue.  No improvements have not diminished my user experience. What I had two years ago is exactly what I have now.

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noirdesir
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Re: Abandoned Aperture ...oh my...like a dumpster baby.
In reply to DenWil, Aug 23, 2013

DenWil wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued? I can't recall.

Abandoned? Surely you meant discontinued. Your emotional investment in a tool would be comedic if it were a toothbrush.

Yes there was an announcement when iWeb was discontinued. Approximately a year in advance. The iWeb app still functions perfectly. Even on Mountain Lion. The sky did not fall, chaos did not ensue. No improvements have not diminished my user experience. What I had two years ago is exactly what I have now.

There also was an announcement when Apple discontinued Apple Works (saying that it would not receive any updates anymore from then on), but that was already a few years after the last update to Apple Works.

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mydarkroom
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to Graham Hill, Aug 23, 2013

Graham Hill wrote:

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued? I can't recall.

There is ongoing development of Aperture. Significant updates with changes under the hood (unified library), they are just not giving it a number update or charging for it.

As far as iWeb, it seems that it was announced. Regardless, it still works with the latest Mac OS (and I still use it!). Not adequate for today's mobile universe. Hopefully whenever Aperture gets the next major update there will be something similar to iOS iPhoto's webjournal so I can retire iWeb for good.

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graybalanced
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Re: Abandoned Aperture ...oh my...like a dumpster baby.
In reply to DenWil, Aug 23, 2013

DenWil wrote:

Abandoned? Surely you meant discontinued. Your emotional investment in a tool would be comedic if it were a toothbrush.

It's perfectly reasonable to express great concern, even emotional concern, if there is a threat to a tool on which one's business is critically dependent. If a business has accumulated a large archive of jobs in Aperture, it is not a trivial task to migrate to another tool...nor is it cost-free.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to Graham Hill, Aug 24, 2013

Graham Hill wrote:

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued? I can't recall.

iDVD is gone and that has certainly impacted me since I am a new user. I had to either buy a new dvd burner or (as in my case) install Parallels and Windows so I could use Roxio Creator.

I don't know if they announced the discontinuance of iDVD but no one told me when I bought my MBP.

As far as Aperture is concerned, if it is discontinued it does not just mean that it will no longer be available to new buyers; it also means no new updates and hence no new cameras and no bug fixes. It is a serious step for someone committed to using it and, it seems to me, is worth some concern if it happens. I have no idea what Apple has in mind but I was certainly taken by surprise by no available iDVD. My version of iMovie is still telling me to use iDVD to burn my slide shows to disc.

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noirdesir
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 24, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

.......would they tell us or would they just keep everyone hanging?

Was there an announcement when iWeb was discontinued? I can't recall.

iDVD is gone and that has certainly impacted me since I am a new user. I had to either buy a new dvd burner or (as in my case) install Parallels and Windows so I could use Roxio Creator.

And this apparently is the first time in history that any vendor has ever discontinued an application.

I don't know if they announced the discontinuance of iDVD but no one told me when I bought my MBP.

In which form should they have told you? Should every new computer come with a detailed list of what has changed compared to computers sold with the previous OS version (or compared with two OS version back)?

As far as Aperture is concerned, if it is discontinued it does not just mean that it will no longer be available to new buyers; it also means no new updates and hence no new cameras

Unless they also discontinue iPhoto (or drop raw support from iPhoto), all raw support updates that enable iPhoto to use those new raw formats will also enable Aperture, until the moment the raw conversion engine is fundamentally changed.

and no bug fixes. It is a serious step for someone committed to using it and, it seems to me, is worth some concern if it happens. I have no idea what Apple has in mind but I was certainly taken by surprise by no available iDVD. My version of iMovie is still telling me to use iDVD to burn my slide shows to disc.

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Johanfoto
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to noirdesir, Aug 24, 2013

The interesting thing about Aperture is that it will be updated even when Apple doesn't release any updates. As others have pointed out already, that is because the RAW engine is not inside Aperture itself, but inside MacOS X. That point was shown earlier this week: even though Apple didn't release an Aperture update, Aperture suddenly supports Canon EOS-70D RAW-files already, even before I could buy it in any shop in my country. That's the good news.

The bad news is that nobody knows what will happen when MacOS X is updated. Will Aperture still run fine on MacOS X Mavericks without any update? Nobody knows. What happens if I buy the new MacPro with its AMD GPU's? Aperture relies heavily on the GPU, so will it be able to do so on the MacPro, without an update? Nobody knows.

That's why it is logical that Aperture users are worried that Apple leaves them in the cold. And they know it wouldn't be the first time that Apple suddenly loses interest in some area (iDVD, iWeb). Because moving from Aperture to Lightroom is much more complicated and time consuming than changing your word processor or using another DVD burning application, I certainly understand and share their worries.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to noirdesir, Aug 24, 2013

noirdesir wrote:

And this apparently is the first time in history that any vendor has ever discontinued an application.

I did not imply that this was some kind of unusual event. What I did say was that Apple seems to have no problem in discontinuing products that have no Mac replacement and are generally considered to be part of an OS. Disc burning software is certainly included in Windows and, in fact, is part of the Windows Explorer. Apple discontinued it with no Mac replacement.

In which form should they have told you? Should every new computer come with a detailed list of what has changed compared to computers sold with the previous OS version (or compared with two OS version back)?

They should have told me when I talked to them at the Apple Store. I was talking to the techs about saving slide shows to disc and no one bothered to tell me that there was no disc burning software included in OS X. Perhaps you don't think it is important but I do.

And, yes, I do think that what basic software is and is not included should be listed. If a machine comes with a disc burner, but no software to use it, then I do think something should be said. If the included software (iMovie) tells you to use a product that is no longer available, then yes, I do think they should tell you.

Suppose they didn't bother to include software to use the usb ports? Or the ethernet ports?

Unless they also discontinue iPhoto (or drop raw support from iPhoto), all raw support updates that enable iPhoto to use those new raw formats will also enable Aperture, until the moment the raw conversion engine is fundamentally changed.

and no bug fixes. It is a serious step for someone committed to using it and, it seems to me, is worth some concern if it happens. I have no idea what Apple has in mind but I was certainly taken by surprise by no available iDVD. My version of iMovie is still telling me to use iDVD to burn my slide shows to disc.

No comment about the end of bug fixes for Aperture if the product is discontinued?

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noirdesir
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 24, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

noirdesir wrote:

And this apparently is the first time in history that any vendor has ever discontinued an application.

I did not imply that this was some kind of unusual event. What I did say was that Apple seems to have no problem in discontinuing products that have no Mac replacement and are generally considered to be part of an OS. Disc burning software is certainly included in Windows and, in fact, is part of the Windows Explorer. Apple discontinued it with no Mac replacement.

So, which are you talking about: movie-DVD burning software or data-DVD burning software, or to the point, is movie-DVD burning part of Windows Explorer? Since data-DVD burning is still part of the OS X Finder.

But I can rephrase: And this apparently is the first time in history that any OS vendor has ever discontinued a bundled application. At the very least, you make it sound that such discontinuations are something Apple is guilty of a lot more than other OS vendors.

In which form should they have told you? Should every new computer come with a detailed list of what has changed compared to computers sold with the previous OS version (or compared with two OS version back)?

They should have told me when I talked to them at the Apple Store. I was talking to the techs about saving slide shows to disc and no one bothered to tell me that there was no disc burning software included in OS X. Perhaps you don't think it is important but I do.

No, I think you accuse Apple for the omission (inattention) of single sales clerk. Yes, you can fault Apple for not having trained their clerks well enough but this omission is not structural to Apple, sales clerks in all kinds of areas very often don't provide all the information they should.

And, yes, I do think that what basic software is and is not included should be listed. If a machine comes with a disc burner, but no software to use it, then I do think something should be said.

You again elevate the omission of a movie-DVD burning software to the omission of any software that makes use of the burning capabilities of the included optical drive.

If the included software (iMovie) tells you to use a product that is no longer available, then yes, I do think they should tell you.

So, this is the first time an application had pointers to discontinued functionality of other applicaitons?

Suppose they didn't bother to include software to use the usb ports? Or the ethernet ports?

Yeah, keep digging. You can use the optical drive to read any optical disk, you can use it to burn data discs, all with the bundled software, just not movie-DVDs. This is far from not supporting a whole I/O port as you insinuate with your comparison with USB or Ethernet.

No comment about the end of bug fixes for Aperture if the product is discontinued?

No, that was not a point that needed any correction. For the sake of brevity, I only addressed the points where you were inaccurate or exaggerating.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to noirdesir, Aug 24, 2013

noirdesir wrote:

So, which are you talking about: movie-DVD burning software or data-DVD burning software, or to the point, is movie-DVD burning part of Windows Explorer? Since data-DVD burning is still part of the OS X Finder.

But I can rephrase: And this apparently is the first time in history that any OS vendor has ever discontinued a bundled application. At the very least, you make it sound that such discontinuations are something Apple is guilty of a lot more than other OS vendors.

I must admit I am a bit surprised by your response. But OK, here goes.

Apple markets dvd burners as part of the hardware on their machines. These are burners, not readers only. So it is at the least very strange that they would not include software to burn discs. Why sell burners if you cannot burn with the OS you are sold?

And yes, Windows Explorer will burn slide shows to disc if you create them in other software. So, if iMovie was a PC product and if I created a slide show using it on a PC, I could then burn it to the disc using Windows Explorer.

I have not said, nor did I intend to suggest, that Apple is more guilty than other computer vendors. Still I have not seen any other software vendor sell a dvd burner without including some software to actually burn something to it. Given that I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that Apple is "guilty" of not including needed software on their machines.

Does my being clear clarify what I was saying?

No, I think you accuse Apple for the omission (inattention) of single sales clerk. Yes, you can fault Apple for not having trained their clerks well enough but this omission is not structural to Apple, sales clerks in all kinds of areas very often don't provide all the information they should.

Actually several sales clerks since I made several trips to the Apple Store and spoke with several people. I also spoke to the sales people on the phone about what I wanted and none of them ever even suggested that there was no burning software included.

You again elevate the omission of a movie-DVD burning software to the omission of any software that makes use of the burning capabilities of the included optical drive.

Not movie burning, but burning anything to the disc. As OS X comes now you cannot burn anything to a disc with the included software. Again, why does Apple sell a machine with basic hardware like a dvd burner without including software to use it.

As an example the last Dell PC I bought several years ago came with a blu-ray burner and with software that would only burn regular discs, not blu-ray. When I contacted them and explained that their advertising for the blu-ray burner (which was an extra cost option) specifically said it could burn blu-ray discs, they sent me the full version of their product.

So, this is the first time an application had pointers to discontinued functionality of other applicaitons?

Yes, I think this is the first time I was told to use software that no longer existed and had no replacement that I could also use. But even if it were not you sound as though I should be happy to get the machine when I am not given software to run the hardware. Why do you think I should not say anything? Just be happy that I have the machine and not complain about missing software functionality?

Yeah, keep digging. You can use the optical drive to read any optical disk, you can use it to burn data discs, all with the bundled software, just not movie-DVDs. This is far from not supporting a whole I/O port as you insinuate with your comparison with USB or Ethernet.

How can I use it to burn data discs without iDVD? There is nothing that Apple support told me I could use to burn data discs unless I bought a 3rd party product.

No comment about the end of bug fixes for Aperture if the product is discontinued?

No, that was not a point that needed any correction. For the sake of brevity, I only addressed the points where you were inaccurate or exaggerating.

I suppose exaggerated depends upon the needs of the user. If one of the things you wanted this machine for was to burn stuff to discs and if you were told you could do that, but then found you could not without spending extra money, then I suppose you might be upset.

I am not upset as much as surprised by the omission. I have Windows software I can use under Parallels, but I am surprised by Apple's omission. And I have been just as surprised by the omission of software by PC vendors as well.

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miketuthill
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 24, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Apple markets dvd burners as part of the hardware on their machines. These are burners, not readers only. So it is at the least very strange that they would not include software to burn discs. Why sell burners if you cannot burn with the OS you are sold?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1152

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to miketuthill, Aug 24, 2013

miketuthill wrote:

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Apple markets dvd burners as part of the hardware on their machines. These are burners, not readers only. So it is at the least very strange that they would not include software to burn discs. Why sell burners if you cannot burn with the OS you are sold?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1152

Ha. As I have always said, no day is wasted if you learn something new.

I did not know that Finder would burn data to a dvd. I suppose I should have tried since you can burn data to a dvd using Windows Explorer on a PC. Sort of the same thing. Thanks for the post.

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noirdesir
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 24, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

miketuthill wrote:

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Apple markets dvd burners as part of the hardware on their machines. These are burners, not readers only. So it is at the least very strange that they would not include software to burn discs. Why sell burners if you cannot burn with the OS you are sold?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1152

Ha. As I have always said, no day is wasted if you learn something new.

I did not know that Finder would burn data to a dvd. I suppose I should have tried since you can burn data to a dvd using Windows Explorer on a PC. Sort of the same thing. Thanks for the post.

Should my conclusion be that you thought iDVD would be able to or rather would be the default application to burn data to a DVD? And thus that you had never in your life burned data DVDs or data CDs on a Mac?

And btw, I still have iDVD (under Mountain Lion) and that on Mac with no internal optical drive. It was essentially Migration Assistant that carried it over from older OS versions.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to noirdesir, Aug 24, 2013

noirdesir wrote:

Should my conclusion be that you thought iDVD would be able to or rather would be the default application to burn data to a DVD? And thus that you had never in your life burned data DVDs or data CDs on a Mac?

Yes. That is the case. I have only had this Mac for about 6 weeks and this is my first Mac.

I was under the impression that there was no other way to burn data to dvds.

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Alpha Doug
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 25, 2013

It might be a very good idea to pick up a copy of "Switching to the Mac" by David Pogue.  Will tell you exactly how to do things you did on your PC.  OS X has very good basic DVD or CD burning capabilities built in.  Also, if you can find a way to come up with a copy of iDVD, it still burn DVD's for playing in a DVD player.  Also, you did not have to use Parallels and run Roxio Creator.  You could simply have gotten a copy of Roxio "Toast" for the Mac.  Very similar.

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Tom_N
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Aug 25, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:
Disc burning software is certainly included in Windows and, in fact, is part of the Windows Explorer. Apple discontinued it with no Mac replacement.

...
They should have told me when I talked to them at the Apple Store. I was talking to the techs about saving slide shows to disc and no one bothered to tell me that there was no disc burning software included in OS X. Perhaps you don't think it is important but I do.

Mac OS X includes disc burning software.  The Finder can burn data DVDs.  iPhoto can burn CDs and DVDs for viewing with other copies of iPhoto.  iTunes can burn CD-Audio discs and data discs containing MP3/AAC files.  Disk Utility can burn .DMG images to DVD.

What's gone (since Apple dropped iDVD) is a way of authoring DVD-Video discs.  Mac users have a right to be upset about the removal of this important feature.  But as far as I know, there never has been any DVD-Video authoring capability in Windows Explorer.

This Microsoft help page for Windows 7 seems to agree, saying that "If you want to create other types of discs, such as a DVD-Video disc (to play in a regular DVD player) … you'll need to use a different program or feature of Windows."

Microsoft - Windows - Burn a CD or DVD in Windows Explorer

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to Alpha Doug, Aug 25, 2013

Alpha Doug wrote:

It might be a very good idea to pick up a copy of "Switching to the Mac" by David Pogue. Will tell you exactly how to do things you did on your PC. OS X has very good basic DVD or CD burning capabilities built in. Also, if you can find a way to come up with a copy of iDVD, it still burn DVD's for playing in a DVD player.

I had planned to do exactly that but the folks at Apple tech support specifically told me to not do that. They said (1) I did not want iDVD because it was so buggy (yes, that is what they said) and (2) even if I got it it would not work with Mountain Lion.

I cannot verify item (2) but that is what I was told. Not by one support tech but by two. Perhaps they are just trying to discourage users from getting iDVD. I don't know.

Also, you did not have to use Parallels and run Roxio Creator. You could simply have gotten a copy of Roxio "Toast" for the Mac. Very similar.

Yes. I know. But I used Creator for a couple of reasons. First, I already had a valid Windows version and I could install it under Parallels free, second Creator would burn my DVDs without any problem, third Creator can create blu-ray discs and fourth Creator included functionality to change the .mov slide shows created by iMovie to alternate formats - mp2, mp4, avi, etc. That allowed me to put the converted slide shows on a memory stick and use the usb slot on my dvd player to show the slide show on my TV. As long as I can do that I don't actually need to burn the stuff to dvd unless I want to play it on a different TV (which I sometimes want to do). So Creator gave me much for functionality than Toast and, since I already had it, was less expensive.

How often do you get that combination?????

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: If Apple abandoned Aperture.....
In reply to Tom_N, Aug 25, 2013

Tom_N wrote:

Mac OS X includes disc burning software. The Finder can burn data DVDs. iPhoto can burn CDs and DVDs for viewing with other copies of iPhoto. iTunes can burn CD-Audio discs and data discs containing MP3/AAC files. Disk Utility can burn .DMG images to DVD.

I did not know any of that. Thanks for the information.

What's gone (since Apple dropped iDVD) is a way of authoring DVD-Video discs. Mac users have a right to be upset about the removal of this important feature. But as far as I know, there never has been any DVD-Video authoring capability in Windows Explorer.

No, but I don't need that. I already have video format conversion software and it will change a regular slide show (of, say, .mov format) into regular VOB format on disc. Then all you have to do is burn the folders to a dvd and you are done.

In fact my video conversion software will create, on disc, both regular VOB and blu-ray formats and just burning them to disc will create a playable dvd or blu-ray.

This Microsoft help page for Windows 7 seems to agree, saying that "If you want to create other types of discs, such as a DVD-Video disc (to play in a regular DVD player) … you'll need to use a different program or feature of Windows."

Yes, but again, if I have the folder format already created copying it to the disc will create a playable dvd.

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