Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor

Started Aug 20, 2013 | Discussions
photoreddi
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Re: white paper test.....my sensor is not flawless
In reply to Bing Chow, Aug 22, 2013

Bing Chow wrote:

When I first did this test few days ago, I shot it at F11, and I really didn't see anything even at 200%. So I retested just now @ F22 and I do see some spots. While not flawless (I stand corrected), it is a far cry from some D600 examples. Those may be the worse of the worse, handled by the roughest of the rough.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy with mine since it has never been cleaned beyond on-board ultrasonics. It's been to DC, San Fran, Costa Rica, Cuba, Sequoia National Park, Seattle, and more.

That's pretty good. So good it may as well be flawless. Most photographers would never shoot real photos at f/22 unless they had an extremely good reason. I've shot at smaller apertures than f/32 or f/36 with some lenses that could go that far, but that was just to test the effects of diffraction, and it can get really, really bad. That was with a D300. A D700 would be a little more forgiving, but not by much. I'd rather have dust on my sensors than have to shoot photos at f/22 with clean sensors.

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RickWheelock
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Re: Perhaps I should go and play with my dolls?
In reply to leicaman, Aug 22, 2013

leicaman wrote:

Rick.... The evidence is as clear as the crud on the upoper left part of the sensor. Dust which you say could have been shaken loose during shipping would be evenly distributed. The dust exhibited here is typical of dusty D600 syndrome .... Thrown into the upper-left of frame by the mirror mechanism.

For the life of me I don't understand why people continue to defend Nikon when they are clearly at fault here and refuse to own up.They are destroying a 70 tear reputation and it's hard to watch. Sad.

If YOU had gotten a bad camera you would I'd wager be singing a different tune.

Well, my camera arrived with spots and a 3K shutter count. I took 10 minutes to clean it up.

I've cleaned it a few times since I got it. It's really not that big of a deal. I like to clean my gear between big shoots anyway. Seems like a good habit to have.

Sure, it's more dirty than other cameras I've had. It's also better than any camera I've ever had.

D800 had/has a left side focus issue. Some cameras have had rubber grips coming off issues. My camera works, and works well. Maybe it requires a bit more from me. That's fine.

As for Nikon, I'm invested in Nikon gear. It would be a huge ordeal in time and money to switch brands, and I don't have either.

 RickWheelock's gear list:RickWheelock's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Nikon D600 Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Tamron SP AF 180mm F/3.5 Di LD (IF) Macro Tokina AT-X 16-28mm f/2.8 Pro FX +3 more
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Absolutic
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I got the Adorama deal plus my Sony Conspiracy Thoughts.
In reply to RickWheelock, Aug 22, 2013

I clicked on buy it now and got the same deal which I think is a phenomenal deal (1599 with 24-85 lens).   The lens can be resold for $350 if necessary and you got yourself a $1250 D600.  But I want the 24-85 lens.    I will report when I get mine (I am in California, so who knows how long UPS Ground will take).

With that in mind, I have gotten a D600 sometime ago from Cametacamera...which was $1599 for just the camera (refurb) and I thought at the time it was a good deal.  The camera came with 10 shots on the shutter count.   As far as sensor spots -  I noticed a couple at very high Fs after a while which did not bother me at all.  In the worst case scenerio, I have my sensor cleaning solution on the shelf somewhere, I'll just clean the sensor.   I've done it before many times.  Actually I am lying, I usually ask my wife to do it, she has a steady hand and does great job cleaning.

Now, someone above mentioned any DSLR will have these.   I tend to disagree.  I am going to throw some rocks at Nikon and Sony here.

I've owned most Canon cameras from 40D to 5DMark3.   I put 14500 shots on my 5DM3 that I recently sold.  No spots whatsoever on any of my Canons.  I changed lenses frequently on my 5DM3 and nothing.

I've also owned most Nikon DSLRS from D40 to D800.  Most Nikon cameras, with exception of D7000,D700 and D800, had several dust spot issues.   D40 had it.  D300 had it a lot.     D40x had it.   D60 had it.

Also the Sony.   Sony 5n and NEX-7 that I had two samples of, seemed to be a magnet for dust.   I thought it had to do with the fact that the sensor is exposed with no mirror covering it.   However, my Olympus OM-D that also has a sensor exposed, where I changed the lenses even more frequently, has never had any problem with any sensor dust.

Since Nikons use Sony sensors (at least D600 and my previous D300) could it be that Sony sensors are somehow attracting dust like no tomorrow.   I got Sony RX100 recently and even that had a huge dust spot in the left top corner and that was a camera with a non-interchangeable lens!!!!   By the way, the same Left Top Corner that D600 seems to have the problem,   The RX100 had a well documented issue with a number of cameras going back to amazon.con with this issue.  Brand new cameras sold with a dusty sensor, and on RX100, you cannot really remove the lens to clean the sensor.

I think it has something to do with Sony.   Again my Canons - never any problems.  Olympus m43- never any problems.

In any case I will report on my sample of D600 when I receive it.  If it has a couple of spots I will just clean it myself, however if it is as crazy as the OP here, I might return it to adorama.

 Absolutic's gear list:Absolutic's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Fujifilm X-T1 Sony a6000 Sony Alpha 7 II Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +9 more
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Mahmoud Mousef
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probably Adorama's lovely policies
In reply to SnappinOutdoors, Aug 22, 2013

There have been numerous issues with Adorama selling used cameras as new too. Search the threads. There was one recently about a Panasonic DMC-GX1. This is probably why Adorama's ratings are far lower than B&H's if you check online.

I have seen, with my own eyes, a colleague open up his lens...it was caked with what must have been weeks-old dust and this was straight from Adorama. This was years ago. Previous orders he made from them were fine.

But after that, he never ordered from them again.

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1w12q312qw1
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Another "joke" poster weighs in
In reply to ron_9, Aug 22, 2013

ron_9 wrote:

Honest to GOD are any of you out there actually photographer or just glutinous consumers wanting everything handed to you and your equipment cleaned by man servants. This is not the attitude that put a man on the moon.

Do any of you know how little this will effect an image at normal F2.8 thru F11 , do any of you know about content aware in your PP, do any of you know about clone stamp in your PP. Do you know that you'll never be able to see those except, maybe, in a blue sky and just so easy to fix in a second.. Now keep your sensor dust off on for start up and power down and these will probably be gone-------BUT THIS IS "NOT" A DIRTY SENSOR. Man up guys and admit you're stumped and don't know what you are doing and should get a good P&S ???????? Now all of you post those shots that were ruined by these evil shadows of dust, come on post them, ya can't because you are to busy taking blank screen shots. This may be harsh but you guys(a lot of you) are being real dumb bunnies here----ron s

"THIS IS NOT A DIRTY SENSOR" Huh???????

If you consider at least 100 dust bunnies plus oil NOT a dirty sensor, then I'd like to see what you consider dirty. There are plenty of people here with posts saying that dust will show up even as high as f/5. Imagine shooting 500 shots of a wedding with his camera and then cloning out the specks, that's a career in a lot of people's opinions. And, believe it or not, some photography like macro or landscape does require the camera to be at f/10 or beyond.

But maybe you're just looking at the reduced size of his image. Try this - click on "View original size", make sure it's at 100%, save it to your PC then take it into Photoshop.

And this has nothing to do with NASA, it has everything to do with image integrity, something you care very little about.

Stan

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Novens2
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Same thing except refurb with nikon Canada warrenty-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to SnappinOutdoors, Aug 22, 2013

Same in fact wasn't even looking for them but they showed up in shots taken just a day or two after purchase. This really is ludicrous no matter how you slice it. The d600 is a wonderful picture taking machine except for this rather irritating flaw.

By the way it wasn't Adarama but Henrys Canada

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57even
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Re: Can't believe people are defending Nikon
In reply to photoreddi, Aug 22, 2013

photoreddi wrote:

Bing Chow wrote:

I am blown away by the low standards some of you set for a company with as much accomplishments and history as Nikon.

We don't hear D700, D3 owners bitch about dust. Why? Is it because every D700/D3 owner has already surrendered and has found better things to do? Do D700/D3 owners have more realistic expectations? Do D600 owners have unrealistic expectations? Or maybe it's because the D700 and D3 bodies are better engineered against contamination and the D600 really do have problems.

I'll tell you why. The initial D600s had problems with oil spots on the sensor which was fairly difficult to remove with the regular cleaning tools.

It was easy enough to wet clean, but who want to do that weekly?

That led to enough threads discussing the problem that people started "pixel peeping" (the other kind) like they hadn't with the D700/D3. So after the oil spots became less of an issue, people were still intensively searching for dust and debris, and they found some.

No I had an initial oil spot issue on my D700 as well. One clean and it didn't return for 6 months. My D600 test had 3 visible spots at F4 within a week of purchase, and over 100 at F16.

500 shots after a full clean, it was exactly the same as before. This repeated 3 times even after Nikon replaced the mirror box.

If the same size dust particles were on a D700/D3 sensor and a D600 sensor, if you zoom in enough to see individual pixels, the magnification used for the D600's images is greater than that used to see the D700's images, so the dust particles appear larger and are easier to notice.

So the dust on D700/D3 sensors was not only harder to see, there wasn't a similar oil problem that whipped D700/D3 owners into an oil/pixel_dust_peeping frenzy.

Nice theory, so why is my D800 perfectly OK?

Dust shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure the OP has better things to do than shoot blank walls and come here to whine. I'm sure he would rather NOT have to do it.

I agree that most D600 owners would rather not have dust on their D600's sensors, but having found some, it sure seems they're here to whine for the duration.

Since you have no direct experience, why are you commenting? Do you think it's acceptable?

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photoreddi
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Can't believe people the things some people write...
In reply to 57even, Aug 22, 2013

57even wrote:

photoreddi wrote:

Bing Chow wrote:

I am blown away by the low standards some of you set for a company with as much accomplishments and history as Nikon.

We don't hear D700, D3 owners bitch about dust. Why? Is it because every D700/D3 owner has already surrendered and has found better things to do? Do D700/D3 owners have more realistic expectations? Do D600 owners have unrealistic expectations? Or maybe it's because the D700 and D3 bodies are better engineered against contamination and the D600 really do have problems.

I'll tell you why. The initial D600s had problems with oil spots on the sensor which was fairly difficult to remove with the regular cleaning tools.

It was easy enough to wet clean, but who want to do that weekly?

No, that's not true. I wet cleaned my D600 enough times to waste a considerable number of exensive cleaning swabs and the oil spots remained unchanged. I then used a little more than twice the recommended amount of cleaning fluid and the only change was that a couple of the oil spots smudged a little, but weren't removed. I then exchanged the D600 for a D800 which hasn't had any oil problems. Several weeks later I came across some old posts in DPR's archives (and IIRC, Thom Hogan was included in that discussion) saying that to effectively remove oil spots, you had to use a less commonly available cleaning fluid that is detergent based, and after removing the oil, give the sensor a final cleaning with the regular sensor cleaning fluid that's included in most cleaning kits. I would have tried that but I no longer had the D600.

.

That led to enough threads discussing the problem that people started "pixel peeping" (the other kind) like they hadn't with the D700/D3. So after the oil spots became less of an issue, people were still intensively searching for dust and debris, and they found some.

No I had an initial oil spot issue on my D700 as well. One clean and it didn't return for 6 months. My D600 test had 3 visible spots at F4 within a week of purchase, and over 100 at F16.

We have no way of knowing if the spots on your D700's sensor was from the same type of oil or if the surface above the D600/D700 sensor being cleaned is the same or if the oil might be harder to remove from the D600's sensor. For a while some years ago, two different types of cleaning fluids were used, depending on the camera model used, because the surface above some sensors was adversely affected by the previously recommended fluid. This apparently is no longer the case so you no longer have to match the cleaning fluid to the camera.

.

...

If the same size dust particles were on a D700/D3 sensor and a D600 sensor, if you zoom in enough to see individual pixels, the magnification used for the D600's images is greater than that used to see the D700's images, so the dust particles appear larger and are easier to notice.

So the dust on D700/D3 sensors was not only harder to see, there wasn't a similar oil problem that whipped D700/D3 owners into an oil/pixel_dust_peeping frenzy.

Nice theory, so why is my D800 perfectly OK?

Because it doesn't shed dust particles like the D600 does. It's not a theory, btw. If you want to make it a little easier to understand, compare 100% views from a 3mp DSLR with those from a 24mp DSLR. One has enormous photosites and same size dust particles that can easily be seen on the 24mp images will be tiny if you examine the 100% view from the 3mp images. If you can't understand that, then just move on.

.

Dust shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure the OP has better things to do than shoot blank walls and come here to whine. I'm sure he would rather NOT have to do it.

I agree that most D600 owners would rather not have dust on their D600's sensors, but having found some, it sure seems they're here to whine for the duration.

Since you have no direct experience, why are you commenting? Do you think it's acceptable?

You're clearly wrong again. It's time to stop trusting your crystal ball because it's only feeding you silly, bogus assumptions, or were you hoping to get away with a bluff?

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gftphoto
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to SnappinOutdoors, Aug 22, 2013

Is there a way to tell whether or not a new D600 has the shutter "fix" when purchasing?

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leicaman
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This is not a correct way to test for dust/oil
In reply to Bing Chow, Aug 22, 2013

Try this again at F16 with the lens focused at infinity ... Shoot up at a white ceiling with AF OFF and no VR. As the camera is exposing turn the camera so that there is nothing that can appear as sharp in the field.  Look at the RAW image.... then you will see what your sensor really looks like.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Buy Local.
In reply to SnappinOutdoors, Aug 22, 2013

This has been a recording.

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leicaman
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Re: Can't believe people are defending Nikon
In reply to 57even, Aug 22, 2013

You sir are 100% correct.  Those that poopoo comments about the D600 have obviously never experienced using one of the defective units we had the great bad luck of owning.

My bigger concern is the volumes Nikon's response... or lack thereof speaks about what kind of company Nikon has become.   I would love a d800 but I am hesitant to reinvest with a company that has already shown such complete disregard for its customers.  This has recently been reflected in the price of Nikon's stock.  One can't keep doing business in this manner and stay in business...

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leicaman
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to bocajrs, Aug 22, 2013

Are you not the least bit surprised that it took you 3 different bodies to get a good unit?

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djsphynx
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to bocajrs, Aug 22, 2013

bocajrs wrote:

djsphynx wrote:

I'm still shocked that people continue to roll the dice with this model. The D600 has a fundamental problem and until Nikon redesigns it, the camera will continue to be manufactured with the defect.

No sense in rolling the dice. Get a used D800 or D700 if you don't need video and call it a day.

-- hide signature --

Continue to be shocked, because I rolled the dice three times, and finally, the third D600 purchased within the last month has not accumulated any significant amount of dust in the upper left quadrant..

Now that I actually stopped shooting THE SKY and BLANK WALLS at f16-f20, I've truly enjoyed this fine piece of machinery..It's an awesome camera..

If you got a bad copy, return it for another one, or get your full refund if your within return windows..stop bitching and start shooting!!!!

My father shoots with a problematic D600. I shoot with a D800 and D3s combo. I'm out there shooting though (and not brick walls at F16-22), you can check my website for proof of that.

But that you had to buy the same camera 3 times in order to finally get one that's supposedly fine, ouch. What do you think happened to the other 2?

-- hide signature --
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djsphynx
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to leicaman, Aug 22, 2013

leicaman wrote:

Are you not the least bit surprised that it took you 3 different bodies to get a good unit?

ding ding ding lol

But on a serious note, if someone gets a D600 that doesn't have the problem, awesome. I personally recommend people stay away from it.

-- hide signature --
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SnappinOutdoors
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to mathi_vadhanan, Aug 22, 2013

Glad to hear there are some good one's in the batch, Mathi!  Good news.  The thing is, it shouldn't have to be the "luck of the draw", or "I have my fingers crossed".... not if the cameras are truly refurbished.  Enjoy your D600!

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SnappinOutdoors
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Re: Same thing except refurb with nikon Canada warrenty-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to Novens2, Aug 22, 2013

Ludicrous is a good word for it :).... shouldn't be a "lucky chance" to get a refurbished item in the stated condition, which is "like new."  Many of these have simply been thrown in a refurb box and sent on their way.  Nikon doesn't want to replace shutter mechanisms on every one that was affected, that's why there was no recall.  (Though there should have been)

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SnappinOutdoors
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Re: Buy Local.
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Aug 22, 2013

I agree!  Try to do that with new items.  Still, it becomes harder and harder.  The main local camera shop in my area closed doors 2 years ago.  No doubt because of the internet effect.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Buy Local.
In reply to SnappinOutdoors, Aug 22, 2013

I learned my lesson a few years back when I got a supposedly new dusty lens from the lovely Garden State.   With internet sellers collecting state sales tax, perhaps the locals will have a more even playing field...if there are any left.

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frank-in-toronto
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Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
In reply to djsphynx, Aug 22, 2013

djsphynx wrote:

I'm still shocked that people continue to roll the dice with this model. The D600 has a fundamental problem and until Nikon redesigns it, the camera will continue to be manufactured with the defect.

No sense in rolling the dice. Get a used D800 or D700 if you don't need video and call it a day.

-- hide signature --

i have 29,000 on my d600.  i went to nikon 3 times and i've wet cleaned it more than 10 times in less than a year.  blown numerous.  it's pretty good now but i can see at f16, those tell-tale spots in the upper left of the image.  shortly i'll give it another wet cleaning.  i would never recommend this body to a friend.

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