E M1 on Fourthirds Rumors

Started Aug 18, 2013 | Discussions
kuaimen
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Re: E M1 on Fourthirds Rumors
In reply to drj3, Aug 21, 2013

drj3 wrote:

Olympus camera division (half dead?) will die an ugly death if they dare sell a "tiny"-sensor camera without significant price difference compared to a 35mmff-sensor camera, me believes.

When comparing similar generation technology, silicon is sold mostly by area. Sensor of 35mmff size costs about 4x compared to 4/3 sensor. Given that condition, and given that good 35mmff OVF is also expensive, Olympus would rake in a huge profit based on BOM only (not including R&D cost), if the price is set close to 35mmff.

If the sensor was the accounted for most of the cost of a camera, you would be correct. However, all those other things like the camera body, the LCD, the electronics, and image stabilizer typically will cost far more than the sensor. Comparing the E-M1 with dust, moisture, and freeze proofing and at least theoretically semi-pro level components to a stripped down full frame camera is not appropriate. This logic would say that a Canon rebel should cost the same as the Canon 7D (originally $1974) since they use the same sensor. I personally think the 7D is really worth more than three times the cost of the rebel. If the E-M1 really is a semi-pro level camera which can effectively use all FT lenses and has a build quality equal to the E5, then I would be surprised if the price was less than $1500. If the Olympus Pen EPM2 cost as much as a introductory level FF, then Olympus would have a serious problem.

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drj3

Expensive items command much higher profit than cheap items, per unit. Canon would/should make more profit per 7D than the other lesser Canon DSLRs. The higher frame rate of 7D alone costs a lot of money, as 7D would need much more memory (silicon area) and faster image processor (needs more high-speed memory too) to handle large amount of data rapidly.

And there is the perceived disadvantage of 4/3 and m4/3 of being not as much a camera as a 35mmff to begin with. It's just like no matter what it is, one cannot sell a smaller LED TV for more money than a bigger one. It has very little to do if the smaller TV is actually better, if there is a true objective measure of the "betterness", or if it is already big enough for the viewer.

If EM1 does not have a significant price gap compared to even the entry-level 35mmff cameras, more people will switch to C/N for their "serious" camera.

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drj3
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Re: E M1 on Fourthirds Rumors
In reply to kuaimen, Aug 21, 2013

kuaimen wrote:

drj3 wrote:

Olympus camera division (half dead?) will die an ugly death if they dare sell a "tiny"-sensor camera without significant price difference compared to a 35mmff-sensor camera, me believes.

When comparing similar generation technology, silicon is sold mostly by area. Sensor of 35mmff size costs about 4x compared to 4/3 sensor. Given that condition, and given that good 35mmff OVF is also expensive, Olympus would rake in a huge profit based on BOM only (not including R&D cost), if the price is set close to 35mmff.

If the sensor was the accounted for most of the cost of a camera, you would be correct. However, all those other things like the camera body, the LCD, the electronics, and image stabilizer typically will cost far more than the sensor. Comparing the E-M1 with dust, moisture, and freeze proofing and at least theoretically semi-pro level components to a stripped down full frame camera is not appropriate. This logic would say that a Canon rebel should cost the same as the Canon 7D (originally $1974) since they use the same sensor. I personally think the 7D is really worth more than three times the cost of the rebel. If the E-M1 really is a semi-pro level camera which can effectively use all FT lenses and has a build quality equal to the E5, then I would be surprised if the price was less than $1500. If the Olympus Pen EPM2 cost as much as a introductory level FF, then Olympus would have a serious problem.

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drj3

Expensive items command much higher profit than cheap items, per unit. Canon would/should make more profit per 7D than the other lesser Canon DSLRs. The higher frame rate of 7D alone costs a lot of money, as 7D would need much more memory (silicon area) and faster image processor (needs more high-speed memory too) to handle large amount of data rapidly.

And there is the perceived disadvantage of 4/3 and m4/3 of being not as much a camera as a 35mmff to begin with. It's just like no matter what it is, one cannot sell a smaller LED TV for more money than a bigger one. It has very little to do if the smaller TV is actually better, if there is a true objective measure of the "betterness", or if it is already big enough for the viewer.

If EM1 does not have a significant price gap compared to even the entry-level 35mmff cameras, more people will switch to C/N for their "serious" camera.

All the memory and sensor combined is still a very small part of the cost of producing a camera.  Small TV''s are not always cheaper.  I just looked at Samsung website and indeed many of the smaller TV's are much more expensive.  A larger TV is more expensive than a smaller one with the same features.  However, a small TV with better features is much more expensive than a stripped larger one.  Comparing all 65" Samsung TV's the price range on their website the prices ranged from $1500- $7500, the 55" TV's ranged from $2800-$9000, since there were no stripped 55" TVs.  The only 46" TV was $2600, more than several 65" TVs.  Apparently people are willing to pay more for a  better equipped small TV, than a stripped larger one.

If the E M1 price was $3000, then I agree that Olympus would have difficulty, since a well featured Nikon D8000 could be purchased for less.  Even then the E M1 would have a distinct advantage in size, but not in perceived value or IQ.  You my be correct, however, that people may equate size with value for cameras, in which case I think the E M1 may have problems.  There certainly appear to be many individuals on this website who appear to believe that it is overpriced.   I just think it is strange that the comparison would be with FF cameras with far fewer features instead of well equipped cropped sensor Nikon and Canon cameras with similar features.  However, maybe the individuals on the Canon and Nikon forums are saying the same thing about their crop sensor cameras.

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drj3

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greyowl750
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Re: Hello upgrade!
In reply to greyowl750, Aug 22, 2013

greyowl750 wrote:

O baby! Bring on the army of used E-5's !! Ebay, here I come.

Just looked on ebay, as of aug 21 2013

only 9 available in North America, new or used..priced from $1007.00 all the way to $2960 !!!Well, hmmm..always wanted to try a first generation Canon 5D...

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Roger Engelken
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Re: Cries out to be on Olympus SLR Talk and Micro 4/3 forum!
In reply to dave gaines, Aug 22, 2013

dave gaines wrote:

This whole discussion cries out to be on the m4/3 forum. The title has nothing to do with Olympus SLR Talk and everything to do with MILC. In a week or two you'll all see a new OM-D with advanced capabilities, but it won't be the be all to end all for Olympus photographers.

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Dave

The new camera body (at least from the video with the ZD 14-35) and the images (with the same lens) purports to offer a path for those with four thirds lenses. Time and the actual release of any camera will tell that. In the meantime I own seventeen four thirds lenses, so if there is a new body that will allow me the chance to use them (if I so chose), I would want to hear about it, and hearing about it here makes sense. Many have stated it is the lenses that keep then with their equipment. These lens might just work on the new camera, and that is reason enough to have a discussion here, on this forum.

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Lawrence Keeney
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Re: Cries out to be on Olympus SLR Talk and Micro 4/3 forum!
In reply to Roger Engelken, Aug 22, 2013

Roger Engelken wrote:

The new camera body (at least from the video with the ZD 14-35) and the images (with the same lens) purports to offer a path for those with four thirds lenses. Time and the actual release of any camera will tell that. In the meantime I own seventeen four thirds lenses, so if there is a new body that will allow me the chance to use them (if I so chose), I would want to hear about it, and hearing about it here makes sense. Many have stated it is the lenses that keep then with their equipment. These lens might just work on the new camera, and that is reason enough to have a discussion here, on this forum.

I am in the same boat when it comes to lenses. I look forward to a new camera that will focus these lenses quickly.

However I would hate to spend all the money on a E M1 only to have Olympus release the E7 a few months later.

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dave gaines
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Olympus SLR Talk and Micro 4/3 forum!
In reply to Lawrence Keeney, Aug 22, 2013

Lawrence Keeney wrote:

...

I am in the same boat when it comes to lenses. I look forward to a new camera that will focus these lenses quickly.

However I would hate to spend all the money on a E M1 only to have Olympus release the E7 a few months later.

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Hi Lawrence, Roger and Mark,

No one knows if it will focus 4/3 lenses any faster than the E-P5 does now. Given the relative success of these on-sensor systems to date, don't expect it to be as good as an E-5. The E-P5 focuses the 14-35 fairly easily. It doesn't cut it for the 50-200 or the 35-100.

In a few weeks we'll all know what Olympus has in store. In the mean time we think there is a new MILC to be released. But that is a rumor too. I didn't see the short-lived video but the stills do look like another OM-D.

I won't be rushing out to buy anything new yet. Especially not a MILC. My E-5 works great for now. If an E-7 comes out in the next few months that will be soon enough for me.

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Dave

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Mark Chan
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Re: Olympus SLR Talk and Micro 4/3 forum!
In reply to dave gaines, Aug 22, 2013

dave gaines wrote:

Lawrence Keeney wrote:

...

I am in the same boat when it comes to lenses. I look forward to a new camera that will focus these lenses quickly.

However I would hate to spend all the money on a E M1 only to have Olympus release the E7 a few months later.

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Hi Lawrence, Roger and Mark,

No one knows if it will focus 4/3 lenses any faster than the E-P5 does now. Given the relative success of these on-sensor systems to date, don't expect it to be as good as an E-5. The E-P5 focuses the 14-35 fairly easily. It doesn't cut it for the 50-200 or the 35-100.

In a few weeks we'll all know what Olympus has in store. In the mean time we think there is a new MILC to be released. But that is a rumor too. I didn't see the short-lived video but the stills do look like another OM-D.

I won't be rushing out to buy anything new yet. Especially not a MILC. My E-5 works great for now. If an E-7 comes out in the next few months that will be soon enough for me.

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Dave

Dave,

You are coreect regarding the lens support, which till now is still speculation - and lo be to us to have such positive expectations or hopes. If OLY throws a curve ball and the’almost’ used in the video (which i have been watching everyday i obtained it) only refers to the 14~35, then i would be a very unhappy user.

Ps just took the 50-200swd for a wedding shoot and damn i hate the af on my em-5.

Thats why i maintain that hope...

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