On the apparent upcoming high end OMD that will "dub" as the 4/3rds hybrid

Started Aug 12, 2013 | Discussions
Raist3d
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On the apparent upcoming high end OMD that will "dub" as the 4/3rds hybrid
Aug 12, 2013

So looks like this camera will be at least $1,500 USD.  Sounds reasonable if positioned to the high end. This is the camera that will apparently use all 4/3rd lenses very well, with some adapter or the camera body will just support some sort of conversion/whatever.

I am already seeing "oh but $1,500 is too expensive! blah blah blah"  The reality is that a camera at that caliber *IS* expensive. It amazes me how there are so many "somethings for nothings" mentality.  That this camera will use 4/3rd lenses well is Olympus' gift to the 4/3rds users doing good legacy support in a world where they are financially constrained.

In other words, this is the best they can do.

I do have my reservations on going high end and price bracket with the OMD but not because I think the camera with what it has it's at a bad price, but because it starts looking a bit like competing vs Canikon again.  I am beginning to think the direction m4/3rds should love (which means Olympus digital cameras) is Pen.

Keep 'em small, put a built in EVF, offer a weather sealed model.

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bobn2
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Re: On the apparent upcoming high end OMD that will "dub" as the 4/3rds hybrid
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

Raist3d wrote:

So looks like this camera will be at least $1,500 USD. Sounds reasonable if positioned to the high end. This is the camera that will apparently use all 4/3rd lenses very well, with some adapter or the camera body will just support some sort of conversion/whatever.

I am already seeing "oh but $1,500 is too expensive! blah blah blah" The reality is that a camera at that caliber *IS* expensive. It amazes me how there are so many "somethings for nothings" mentality. That this camera will use 4/3rd lenses well is Olympus' gift to the 4/3rds users doing good legacy support in a world where they are financially constrained.

In other words, this is the best they can do.

I do have my reservations on going high end and price bracket with the OMD but not because I think the camera with what it has it's at a bad price, but because it starts looking a bit like competing vs Canikon again. I am beginning to think the direction m4/3rds should love (which means Olympus digital cameras) is Pen.

Keep 'em small, put a built in EVF, offer a weather sealed model.

I think Olympus will see the 'OM-D' gambit as having been very successful, and will be loath to abandon it, and I think they are justified in thinking that. Although the link to the old 'OM' cameras is entirely spurious, it has worked very well - just think how many owners insist that their camera is an 'OMD', not an 'E-M5', and if the new camera is, say, an 'E-M7' they will start calling them the 'OM-D5' and 'OM-D7'. So, Olympus needs a high end model to be seen as a serious contender, and given the recent model history, that high end model is bound to be an 'OMD' (and have a $1500+ price, not credible without). Given the clues given already about use of FT lenses, and that it needs genuine high frame rate ability (with VF and AF) to compete then it's a fairly safe bet that the new technology introduced will be image sensor PDAF, which should allow both things. Probably that technology won't stick at the top end and you will see Pens with this capability sooner rather than later.

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TrapperJohn
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Why was it successful?
In reply to bobn2, Aug 12, 2013

It is an interesting point to ponder - why the OMD was such a success? On back order for several months after it was introduced, still on the DPR top ten clicked list, over a year and a half after it was first announced. Most FF DSLR's can't boast that. It's the one that serious enthusiasts tend to choose, when adding to their current setup. What set it apart from previous M43 bodies?

Some commonly cited reasons tend to ring a bit hollow: retro look (so were the Pens), 5 axis IBIS (nice, but not a game changer), the more conventional 'dslr look' (so were the G and GH)... none of those can really account for the level of interest that no previous M43 body, or no previous mirrorless body got. Not NEX7, not XE1, though both of those are excellent platforms. Something got the enthusiast's attention with the OMD.

My best guess is - the OMD was the first serious mirrorless body: weathersealing, a battery grip, plus high end sensor and new IBIS. No mirrorless body before had the combination of features that are normally found on enthusiast grade DSLR's. It was the first one where the manufacturer appeared to be taking the concept of mirrorless seriously - this isn't just a glorified P&S any more. I believe a lot of enthusiasts like the idea of small but excellent, but were put off by the lack of essential features of previous mirrorless bodies.

This tells me that there is a demand for high end micro/mirrorless, despite what the pundits are trying to make out of short term shipment numbers.

Why I tend to be so bullish on an OMD-Pro that can use the HG and SHG glass - it makes for a very nice dual purpose system. With the AF fixed, an OMD can rival the high end APS DSLR's, even best them with ZD glass out front. I see why the Nikon and Pentax people were raving about PP headroom all these years. Well, we have that now, and without giving up our ZD lenses.

Here's your cake - chow down.

But, unlike the best APS DSLR's, one can take off the grip, put on MZD primes, and the system shrinks to a very small size, without losing any IQ - just the zoom range. It's not just 'small size', the OMD with a small prime like the 45 1.8 is also very slender, about as thick as a C/N DSLR with no lens.

So I'm headed out the door to go do something... I no longer think: ah, I don't feel like dragging the camera bag along, it will just get in the way. I now think: I don't feel like dragging the ZD lenses along, let's take the grip off and bring a prime or two. It's so unobtrusive in that form that you just don't notice it the way you would a larger setup.

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Haider
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Re: On the apparent upcoming high end OMD that will "dub" as the 4/3rds hybrid
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

Positively cheap compared to a D800/7D/A99 no where near the price tag of a 1D/D3/D4. They're gonna cleanup;) No pro cameras from Oly. E-x/EM-x range is pro-am model. Nothing wrong with selling to enthusiats as they are a bigger market than the pro market and some are even better photographers to boot. I doubt the market place is ready for a D800/7D/A99 class/price tag OM-D. . Having a step up model at £1500 makes sense as half-way house to capture the mind whilst the milc market is forming but do Oly have the cash for the camera and marketing to use as a marketing/halo product for their milc line. I still think the E-7 is coming also a E-720. DSLRs aren't going away as fast Oly hoped. Might as well make some cash out of that too. As rich gitlfriend once said only reason a business goes bust is 'cause daddy's run out of money:-)

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Haider
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Re: Why was it successful?
In reply to TrapperJohn, Aug 12, 2013

TrapperJohn wrote:

It is an interesting point to ponder - why the OMD was such a success? On back order for several months after it was introduced, still on the DPR top ten clicked list, over a year and a half after it was first announced. Most FF DSLR's can't boast that. It's the one that serious enthusiasts tend to choose, when adding to their current setup. What set it apart from previous M43 bodies?

Some commonly cited reasons tend to ring a bit hollow: retro look (so were the Pens), 5 axis IBIS (nice, but not a game changer), the more conventional 'dslr look' (so were the G and GH)... none of those can really account for the level of interest that no previous M43 body, or no previous mirrorless body got. Not NEX7, not XE1, though both of those are excellent platforms. Something got the enthusiast's attention with the OMD.

My best guess is - the OMD was the first serious mirrorless body: weathersealing, a battery grip, plus high end sensor and new IBIS. No mirrorless body before had the combination of features that are normally found on enthusiast grade DSLR's. It was the first one where the manufacturer appeared to be taking the concept of mirrorless seriously - this isn't just a glorified P&S any more. I believe a lot of enthusiasts like the idea of small but excellent, but were put off by the lack of essential features of previous mirrorless bodies.

This tells me that there is a demand for high end micro/mirrorless, despite what the pundits are trying to make out of short term shipment numbers.

Why I tend to be so bullish on an OMD-Pro that can use the HG and SHG glass - it makes for a very nice dual purpose system. With the AF fixed, an OMD can rival the high end APS DSLR's, even best them with ZD glass out front. I see why the Nikon and Pentax people were raving about PP headroom all these years. Well, we have that now, and without giving up our ZD lenses.

Here's your cake - chow down.

But, unlike the best APS DSLR's, one can take off the grip, put on MZD primes, and the system shrinks to a very small size, without losing any IQ - just the zoom range. It's not just 'small size', the OMD with a small prime like the 45 1.8 is also very slender, about as thick as a C/N DSLR with no lens.

So I'm headed out the door to go do something... I no longer think: ah, I don't feel like dragging the camera bag along, it will just get in the way. I now think: I don't feel like dragging the ZD lenses along, let's take the grip off and bring a prime or two. It's so unobtrusive in that form that you just don't notice it the way you would a larger setup.

I think you make a lot of sense. Oly has to get in the mind-set as pro MILC manufacturer.  The only issue I see is those big telephotos on an EM-X size body are not so balanced. Even the f2 Zuiko zooms on E-520 is big lens.

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Kevin Sutton
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Sorry, but if this is the best Olympus can do...
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

...I will be voting with my feet.

If someone at Olympus thinks that this "hybrid" idea is what E-5 owners want then I think they have misread their market.  The E-5 is a perfect balance for the ZD lenses and a smaller body just doesn't balance properly.  I tried an EM-5 for a while but it was just to small and fiddly and the EVF just didn't impress.

Like a few others around here, I will skip this one and wait to see if Olympus put out a "proper" E-7 in the next (say) 6 months.  If they don't, I think I might take the plunge into FF Nikon.  Looking at examples on the web, I think I will be better served by a paradigm shift of that nature.  This doesn't sit comfortably with me though, as I have been an Olympus user for over 30 years.  I am just getting annoyed by their constant production of gimmicky, small cameras and retro nonsense (witness the recent special edition E-P5 with free scooter...).

Olympus, please get back to your roots and make stellar lenses and practical, ergonomically designed serious cameras.  If you can't, there are other companies that do and they will get my hard earned dollars.

Cheers Kevin

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tinternaut
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Re: I suspect at minimum an E-4X0 sized body
In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

The ergonomics of this camera are going to matter a great deal.  It ideally needs to be at least the size of an OM body to be remotely comfortable with Olympus's larger lenses.  I'm not to concerned about balance - no matter how big the body, there's always a bigger lens :-).  However, the current OMD is simply far too small.  I think that's the first thing people note, when they see an OMD in 'in the flesh' for the first time.

Let's face it, had the GH3 come with super fast AF for legacy lenses, we'd already be there.

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Jouko
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1500€ ?
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

I think my post on this forum was about the first mentioning 1500€ range... It was just a quess.

If the specks lead out have any clue, the more realistic price range will be around GH3 price - wich is the main competitor anyway. So, around 1100 - 1200€ / body, maybe 1400-1600 with a lens. And the same in dollars too. And these are still just my assumptions, but thought knowing the market situation.

For higher price there has to be something more revolutionary coming out... Maybe there is, maybe not.

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JDLaing
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Re: I suspect at minimum an E-4X0 sized body
In reply to tinternaut, Aug 12, 2013

No. Not that size body.

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Philip Rogers
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Re: 1500€ ?
In reply to Jouko, Aug 12, 2013

This was just posted on my Facebook wall.  So we know the dates.  I'm giving very serious thought to a Canon 5DIII based setup to replace my E5.  The OM-D is just too small, so have fingers crossed more in hope than expectation!!

OlympusUK

What is going on? Get it in your diary:

Exclusive Olympus events in London and at a store near you in September.....

There is a bit of a buzz going round at the moment and it's not someone taking the Vespa from the E-P5 exclusive Harrods kit for a joy ride. It is simply that there are a lot of special Olympus events being organised in London and at retailers during September.

A full current list of events is at the bottom of this post, and more details will be released over the coming weeks. So keep your eyes peeled!

We also recommend registering to receive our newsletters as these too will contain further information. You can do this by visiting: https://myolympus.olympus-consumer.com/en-GB/Newsletter/Subscribe

or alternatively you can follow us on Twitter @OlympusUK and of course on here.

Retailer Events (September):

Friday 13: London Camera Exchange -Horsefair

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SRS - Watford

CameraWorld - London

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Thursday 19: Ffordes Photographic - By Beauly

Friday 20: Merchant City Cameras - Glasgow

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Harrison Cameras - Sheffield

Saturday 28: Warehouse Express - Norwich

Other events - contents TBC (London, September):

Sunday 15, Monday 16, Tuesday 17, Sunday 22, Wednesday 25, Thursday 26, Friday 27, Sunday 29.

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TrapperJohn
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In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

I use the ZD 50-200 on my OMD quite a bit. With the grip installed, the combination handles very well, even if the AF is a bit... slow... I use the 50-200, because M43 has nothing like it right now. Even the pricey Panny 35-100 F2.8 isn't quite as sharp, especially when shot wide open.

You'll never know what a jewel the 50-200 is, until you don't have it.

Granted, the 35-100 is a handful, but it's also a handful on my E3. And outside of the CDAF optimized PL25 and ZD 70-300, the 35-100 is the quickest focusing 4/3 lens on the OMD that I have, if you make good use of the focus limit switch.

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TrapperJohn
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'Pro' seems a bit farfetched
In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

A prime reason that C/N own the 'pro' market is their worldwide service organization. It's simply not cost effective to try to match that. Concede the PJ market to C/N, it would cost too much.

OTOH, the OMD is so small that you can bring at least two of them in the same space it takes to store a single pro grade DSLR body. And let's not even get into the size of the glass.

I don't see what this fuss about 'pro' is for, unless one is a pro-wannabe. Even with film, the most beautiful shots tended to come through the glass of 'not quite pro' companies that specialized in very fine optics: Leica, Pentax, Olympus.

I'd no more replace my current setup with a 'pro' outfit than I'd trade my Ford F350 in on a Peterbilt tractor trailer. Don't need what it's the best at, and would miss what it's not good at, especially come time to park the sucker.

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Raist3d
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There's one more element in your equation....
In reply to TrapperJohn, Aug 12, 2013

price. The EM-5 was USD $1,300 with a lens. $1,000 body only if I remember correctly. So all the things you said at the price. A $1500-$1700 USD body only not sure it will get that high.

BTW, the PP of the Pentaxes, Nikonxes is still better, but the OMD sensor at least gave back something reasonable to m43rds land.

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Raist3d
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How is it "positively cheap"
In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

Haider wrote:

Positively cheap compared to a D800/7D/A99 no where near the price tag of a 1D/D3/D4.

How is $1,500 USD "positively cheap" compared to a 7D? The 7D is $1499 USD right now. The D800 and A99 are more expensive but those are FF cameras. And the 1D/D3/D4 are pro cameras that again, are FF.

They're gonna cleanup;) No pro cameras from Oly. E-x/EM-x range is pro-am model. Nothing wrong with selling to enthusiats as they are a bigger market than the pro market and some are even better photographers to boot. I doubt the market place is ready for a D800/7D/A99 class/price tag OM-D. . Having a step up model at £1500 makes sense as half-way house to capture the mind whilst the milc market is forming but do Oly have the cash for the camera and marketing to use as a marketing/halo product for their milc line. I still think the E-7 is coming also a E-720. DSLRs aren't going away as fast Oly hoped. Might as well make some cash out of that too. As rich gitlfriend once said only reason a business goes bust is 'cause daddy's run out of money:-)

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Raist3d
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Re: Sorry, but if this is the best Olympus can do...
In reply to Kevin Sutton, Aug 12, 2013

Kevin Sutton wrote:

...I will be voting with my feet.

If someone at Olympus thinks that this "hybrid" idea is what E-5 owners want then I think they have misread their market. The E-5 is a perfect balance for the ZD lenses and a smaller body just doesn't balance properly. I tried an EM-5 for a while but it was just to small and fiddly and the EVF just didn't impress.

Like a few others around here, I will skip this one and wait to see if Olympus put out a "proper" E-7 in the next (say) 6 months. If they don't, I think I might take the plunge into FF Nikon. Looking at examples on the web, I think I will be better served by a paradigm shift of that nature. This doesn't sit comfortably with me though, as I have been an Olympus user for over 30 years. I am just getting annoyed by their constant production of gimmicky, small cameras and retro nonsense (witness the recent special edition E-P5 with free scooter...).

Olympus, please get back to your roots and make stellar lenses and practical, ergonomically designed serious cameras. If you can't, there are other companies that do and they will get my hard earned dollars.

Cheers Kevin

Well, Olympus back in the film days used to go Pen and smaller cameras. I really think this is where they need to focus on. I really think a very well designed pro pen would rock (yeah, I am not counting the Pen5 because it's still missing some things).

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drj3
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Re: How is it "positively cheap"
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

If you already own any Olympus DSLR you have at least one lens, at a minimum the 14=42 or the 14-54 or 12-60.  I suspect that most also have a second lens like the 40-150 or 70-300 or 50-200.   Currently your choice would be to buy an OMD kit (currently $1300 with adaptor) with the older EVF or the E P5 (with adaptor $1600) and get very slow focusing with any FT lens.  Instead if the new camera has a better EVF than the OMD, a larger integrated grip, and has 100% compatibiity with the FT lens (new sensor) for $1500, which would you buy.  Personally since I own 5 Olympus FT lenses and E 510 ad E5, the choice is obvious for me and I will preorder the new camera and be glad that it is less expensive than my current E5.  I will also keep the E5 and probably still use it frequently, but when I travel and go on long walks, a smaller size than the E5 would not be so bad.

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stimmer
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Agree on the price..however..
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

If they charge 1500 plus make you pay for an adapter and a grip, then we are getting into some serious cash.  If that were the case I'm out because that's just too much to pay for the privilege of using my 4/3 lenses.

Hopefully everything is built in and that's the price, but I'm seriously doubting this is the case.

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Braxton7
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Re: On the apparent upcoming high end OMD that will "dub" as the 4/3rds hybrid
In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

Haider wrote:

Positively cheap compared to a D800/7D/A99 no where near the price tag of a 1D/D3/D4. They're gonna cleanup;) No pro cameras from Oly. E-x/EM-x range is pro-am model. Nothing wrong with selling to enthusiats as they are a bigger market than the pro market and some are even better photographers to boot. I doubt the market place is ready for a D800/7D/A99 class/price tag OM-D. . Having a step up model at £1500 makes sense as half-way house to capture the mind whilst the milc market is forming but do Oly have the cash for the camera and marketing to use as a marketing/halo product for their milc line. I still think the E-7 is coming also a E-720. DSLRs aren't going away as fast Oly hoped. Might as well make some cash out of that too. As rich gitlfriend once said only reason a business goes bust is 'cause daddy's run out of money:-)

Cheap can me more than just lower price. Let's hope not.

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erichK
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Re: Why was it successful?
In reply to Haider, Aug 12, 2013

Haider wrote:

TrapperJohn wrote:

My best guess is - the OMD was the first serious mirrorless body: weathersealing, a battery grip, plus high end sensor and new IBIS. No mirrorless body before had the combination of features that are normally found on enthusiast grade DSLR's. It was the first one where the manufacturer appeared to be taking the concept of mirrorless seriously - this isn't just a glorified P&S any more. I believe a lot of enthusiasts like the idea of small but excellent, but were put off by the lack of essential features of previous mirrorless bodies.

This tells me that there is a demand for high end micro/mirrorless, despite what the pundits are trying to make out of short term shipment numbers.

Why I tend to be so bullish on an OMD-Pro that can use the HG and SHG glass - it makes for a very nice dual purpose system. With the AF fixed, an OMD can rival the high end APS DSLR's, even best them with ZD glass out front. I see why the Nikon and Pentax people were raving about PP headroom all these years. Well, we have that now, and without giving up our ZD lenses.

Here's your cake - chow down.

But, unlike the best APS DSLR's, one can take off the grip, put on MZD primes, and the system shrinks to a very small size, without losing any IQ - just the zoom range. It's not just 'small size', the OMD with a small prime like the 45 1.8 is also very slender, about as thick as a C/N DSLR with no lens.

So I'm headed out the door to go do something... I no longer think: ah, I don't feel like dragging the camera bag along, it will just get in the way. I now think: I don't feel like dragging the ZD lenses along, let's take the grip off and bring a prime or two. It's so unobtrusive in that form that you just don't notice it the way you would a larger setup.

I think you make a lot of sense. Oly has to get in the mind-set as pro MILC manufacturer. The only issue I see is those big telephotos on an EM-X size body are not so balanced. Even the f2 Zuiko zooms on E-520 is big lens.

The OM-D really is too small to take on the really big boys (not so much the D4 and Mk1 monsters, but mainly the D800 and 5D bodies which many pros actually use). The OM-D is usable with even quite large lenses with a bit of adjustment, but the controls becomes almost impossible to use with gloves and are a struggle for some with large hands. it is indeed difficult to deal with such issues - too small buttons with too short a "throw" too close together on such small camera bodies.

The Pen 5, which I've only handled briefly, does make seem to make some innovative attempts in this regard. but omething closer to the actual OM's or -dare I say it - the E-1 would probably be ideal here. Especially if it is accompanied by further OM-D type or even weatherproofed Pen "second bodies".

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dave gaines
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Next OMD coupled with another equally important release
In reply to Raist3d, Aug 12, 2013

The next high end OMD will be coupled with another, equally important release. The new Apple iPhone. Coincidence, or ar both mediocre, hobbiest camera devices being released at the same time for a reason.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/apple-unveil-next-iphone-sept-10-report-6C10897066

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