G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .

Started 11 months ago | Questions
mike1783
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G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
11 months ago

The fastest shutter speed is supposed to be 1/4000. When in manual exposure, it seems that this value can only be reached at F11 or higher. Same in TV mode. (At least on my G1X.) Any way to get the highest shutter speed at, say, F5.6? . . . my camera stops at 1/2500 at this aperture, and the rest of the speeds are grayed out.

Thanks.

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-F5
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Rod McD
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
In reply to mike1783, 11 months ago

Hi Mike,

Can't help with this one I'm afraid....... I haven't experimented re this with my G1X yet and I don't have time right now.  There are some limitations.  If the flash is on, the shortest shutter speed is 1/2000, but that's independent of aperture.  The use of the compensation dial might also prevent extreme shutter speeds, but I don't think that would be in M mode......

I couldn't find a reference to it in the manual, but the manual has a few instances where it doesn't cover every fine detail.......

Leaf shutters often have limitations with fast speeds at wide apertures, but I don't know about this specifically with the G1X.  I couldn't see the specs in the manual.  They're apparently in the "Getting Started" Booklet but I couldn't lay my hands on it right now.

I hope someone else can help.  I might have another crack at it later.

Cheers, Rod

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mike1783
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
In reply to Rod McD, 11 months ago

Thanks, Rod.  I appreciate the effort.

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John Kirby
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
In reply to mike1783, 11 months ago

Mike,

It would appear that the maximum speed available decreases as the aperture  increases in size.

I get the same as you, 1/4000 needs f11 or above. f8 maxes at 1/3200, f5.6 at 1/2500, f4 at 1/2000, and f2.8 at 1/1600. These figures apply in M mode. In Tv, whilst 1/4000 displays as an option, a half press on the shutter reveals f11 as the aperture it will shoot at; this appears in orange if it's not the correct exposure. Similarly, entering the other shutter speeds above results in a "pairing" with the same apertures as above.

As Rod suggested, maybe it has something to do with physical limitations in the way the whole shutter system must operate. Perhaps someone with a more technical knowledge can elaborate.

Or someone else will chime in and tell us we've some obscure override set incorrectly, but I don't think so!

John.

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Oswald61
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
In reply to mike1783, 11 months ago

There is Chdk.

It will override the minimum shutter speed, and maximum shutter speed, as well as apeture, I believe. How well it works at f5.6 with a shutter speed higher than Canon has allowed will depend on many things such as Iso, available light etc, etc.,  which of course you know. It may be more hassle than it's worth to you.

I started a thread about using Chdk on the G1x awhile ago. Zero interest or response here. One can only assume that it has been discussed when the camera was released, or that G1x owners don't want it, or aren't interested. I don't really care.

Being able to use some of the scene modes and get a Dng file as well is cool enough for me!Also, being able to get a cooked jpeg as per my settings and a Dng files is a plus too.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, just a suggestion. I hope someone has a workaround.

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Rod McD
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed question . . .
In reply to mike1783, 11 months ago

Hi again Mike,

I checked out the specs in the "Getting started" paper manual and the full pdf manual and neither refers to an interrelationship between shutter speed and aperture. I also checked out my G1X and it operates exactly as yours does. (So did another poster's camera here). You'll probably also have noticed that the maximum shutter speed changes as you zoom the lens at maximum aperture because the maximum aperture changes with FL. I'm a low ISO shooter and had never seen this before - I'm always using much slower speeds.

This actually strikes me as 'normal'. If you read (deeply into) the reviews and specs of other digital leaf shuttered cameras, eg Ricoh GR, Fuji X100S, you'll see that they too have mechanical limitations on maximum shutter speed that are dependent on aperture. It may be managed by programming - but it's actually due to the way leaf shutters operate. To offer faster shutter speeds, the blades have to move faster to provide the full shutter opening and close again. For a given maximum blade speed, a shutter speed is eventually reached where the mechanism cannot achieve this at maximum and near-maximum apertures. In electronic cameras like the G1X, instead of limiting us to the fastest speed that will operate at all apertures, the manufacturers let us have the higher speeds for small apertures, but limit the settings for wider apertures. (If you look at the mechanical leaf shutters on view camera lenses they are usually limited to 1/500 for small shutters and still slower speeds for larger shutters).

Yes, Canon should have described this in the specs and manual. I know 1/4000 would have been nice but I wouldn't worry about it unless you specifically bought the G1X expecting and needing to have 1/4000 and flash sync at every aperture and FL. In which case you're not going to get it. For that you'd need to be looking a quite a different camera and flash system. (And remember that flash sync is limited to 1/2000 anyway, if the aperture will allow that speed. (Slower if it won't).

Cheers, Rod

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mike1783
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Thanks to all who took the time to check and help out. I appreciate it. --NT--
In reply to Rod McD, 11 months ago
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Sdaniella
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed ANSWER: IS LIMITED BY SHUTTER TRANSIT SPEED...
In reply to mike1783, 11 months ago

mike1783 wrote:

The fastest shutter speed is supposed to be 1/4000. When in manual exposure, it seems that this value can only be reached at F11 or higher. Same in TV mode. (At least on my G1X.) Any way to get the highest shutter speed at, say, F5.6? . . . my camera stops at 1/2500 at this aperture, and the rest of the speeds are grayed out.

Thanks.

your question was interesting, so I did some basic math of speed of leaf shutter leading edge speeds...

if you do the math

you'll discover the shutter edge need only move laterally (transit across lens opening aperture)19 times SLOWER (343 nm/s) at narrowest aperture diameters (f11-f16) @ 15.1mm WA focal length for 1/4000s (covers only 1.37mm diameter) than the widest aperture diameters (f2.8) @ 60.4mm TA focal length for 1/1600s (covers 10.41 mm diameter, which is 7.6 times farther)... moving much FASTER (6509 nm/s)

If you wanted the mfr to offer the fastest shutter edge speeds to run for the narrower apertures:

you would get uselessly underexposed shots at max ~ 1/76,000s for f11 with WA 15.1mm FL!!!

key is, the shutter mechanical speeds hit their max physical speeds for the largest aperture diameters requiring covering greater oepning aperture distances.

so, the max limitations of shutter speeds (edge transit times) are actually calculated from the largest aperture diameters involved

e.g.

Canon PowerShot G1X:

15.1 - 60.4 mm f2.8/ f5.8 lens

mechanical shutter lateral transit speeds covering aperture diameter distances:

@ 15.1 mm WA:

1/4000s max f11 = 15.1/11 = 1.37mm or 1372727 nm in 1/4000s = 0.3432 um/s or 343.2 nm/s

1/3200s max f8 = 15.1/8 = 1.89mm or 1887500 nm in 1/3200s = 0.5898 um/s or 589.8 nm/s

1/2500s max f5.6 = 15.1/5.6 = 2.70mm or 2696428 nm in 1/2500s = 1.0786 um/s or 1078.6 nm/s

1/2000s max f4 = 15.1/4 = 3.78mm or 3775000 nm in 1/2000s = 1.8875 um/s or 1887.5 nm/s

1/1600s max f2.8 = 15.1/2.8 = 5.39mm or 5392857 nm in 1/1600s = 3.3705 um/s or 3370.5 nm/s

@ 60.4 mm TA:

1/1600s max f5.8 = 60.4/5.8 = 10.41mm or 10413793 nm in 1/1600s = 6.5086 um/s or 6508.6 nm/s

shutter transit speeds: 18.96 times (or 19x) faster at widest aperture diameter (10.41 mm) than narrowest aperture diameter (1.37 mm)

I realize the calculations assume simple hypothetical shutter speed mechanics, so I ignore the design specifics just to get at the bare numbers of an imaginary leaf shutter edge passing across an aperture hole of a certain size (open/close action in one lateral move) to illustrate how the values look like in different speed-aperture scenarios

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SDaniella
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shutter transit speeds: 18.96 times (or 19x) faster at widest aperture diameter (10.41 mm) than narrowest aperture diameter (1.37 mm)

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mike1783
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Re: G1X maximum shutter speed ANSWER: IS LIMITED BY SHUTTER TRANSIT SPEED...
In reply to Sdaniella, 11 months ago

Wow, that too some work on your part, Sdaniella. Thank you. I've learned something.

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