Nokia lumia 1020 review

Started 8 months ago | Questions
bigley Ling
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

I've finally figured it out. The Nokia's color is just too flat for me. I saw some images from a Samsung yesterday that blew me away however. They were better than my iPhone, the Nokia's are not. It's a subjective thing so all you fanboys, please don't beat me up on this. To me the enormous file size has not produced a more pleasing image. The Samsung S3 (I believe) has.

<smack smack> there you are beaten up, hehe.

I would have thought having a more flat profile would be better than having overly high contrast, and saturated images? The output of my DSLR, and mirrorless Sony, all produce flat colors, unless you specify filters in camera to make it more saturated and contrasty. I know what you mean though, my IP5 does produce ready to share images, which have excellent contrast, and have balanced saturation, which basically is ready to share online without user post process intervention.

Hulamike, what do you think of the 1020 images? They seem to have more contrast, saturation and edge sharpening. Is this more the output image you were looking for?

The S3, has a very similar optic and sensor as the S2. In both phones the resulting image results in punchy, high contrast, with clever edge sharpening. I think the combination of these makes the image more pleasing to the eye for most people. Textural detail on S3 images is quite often lost thanks to higher than normal noise reduction. The S4 improves on this, and in good light, more textural detail is preserved.

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

Novel edge sharpening and aggressive but believable noise reduction might be it. All I know is that those Samsung images just looked right to me, not overly but nicely saturated. Generally I like a less punchy image but then again I shot Fuji Velvia over Astia for some reason. Then I chose Fuji DSLRs over Nikon for their dimensionality, something I also prize. So I guess its a ombination of dimensionality, color, saturation, smoothness I look for. Eye splitting sharpness is far down my list.

as to comparing other Nokias, I'm not that into it to spend the time outside this forum. Hope that doesn't sound elitist. If images show up here, I'll take a close look though.

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Stevan G
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

I've finally figured it out. The Nokia's color is just too flat for me. I saw some images from a Samsung yesterday that blew me away however. They were better than my iPhone, the Nokia's are not. It's a subjective thing so all you fanboys, please don't beat me up on this. To me the enormous file size has not produced a more pleasing image. The Samsung S3 (I believe) has.

lol you have a vivid setting and saturation +5 if you want...the point is that you can make 808 pictures look like iphone but vice versa is not possible

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bigley Ling
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

heres some images from the 808. I have rendered it to my color preference though, let me know what you think?

a higher iso shot

Thanls to pureview lossless zoom,  was able to make these captures

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

That's as good as it gets. Thanks. As always it depends on the shooter. #1 blows me away for a phone.

so are your color preferences set in  the Nokia or are they adjusted in post? And am I correct in understanding that Pure View is the Nokia app that creates the larger file? if so, reminiscent of using 645Pro on an iPhone pretty much. That gives an 8 meg file too.

thanks again

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bigley Ling
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

I prefer to adjust my images post, so I set my camera settings to set negative contrast, zero saturation, and sharpness. I do it this way as I am used to capturing images from my Canon 5D, or Sony Nex 5n in entirely RAW format which all comes with a flat unaltered image, which I then can apply processing post depending on the type of scene, and to my personal taste.

I then if need be before sharing use the default editor to autolevel, and contrast, then apply user definable saturation, then saveas another file to be shared accordingly. For more serious processing, I bluetooth or USB send the image to my UMPC for finer editing.

The beauty of the Nokia 808 images, even though it does not save lossless TIF file like 645Pro on the iPhone, is there is just so much detail in the images to work with. For instance in the shadows, a substantial amount of image data can be recovered by just using the shadow recovery using Photproc (3rd party photoshop like editor) in phone or using Photo editor on a PC. And because the image is so flat, it gives more latitude for adding effects post.

No, pureview is not an app that creates larger files. The name "pureview" is the name give by Nokia for premium camera capturing technology. It is used in many of Nokia's phones and it means completely different things on those handsets.

The Nokia 808 pureview, I like to call it pureview 1 basically uses a larger sensor to capture a real high resolution image, Nokia, has employed powerful processing that takes 38Mp and effectively reduced the image to a 8mp, 5mp or 3mp image depending on user setting. The times taken to do this processing is perceived by me as instant! The result of this processing not only reduces digital noise in the image, but it essentially sharpens the image. Because we combine 7 to 1 pixels in the 5mp setting, effects from Bayer interpolation can be disregarded and hence a Fovern like image is a close result. The whole process result is called "pureview" or some call it pure pixel. The quality of this pure pixel image is so good, it rivals some digicams. Next feature of the 808 is the pureview zoom. This basically allows the user of an 808 to gradually reduce the clever interpolation when zooming which slowly destroys that pure pixel image in favor of zoom. For this reason even though the 808 zoom is lossless, ie 8mp wide angle and 8mp tele will have a true 8mp resolution, the benefits of the purepixel is lost completely at the tele focal length.

Just briefly, Nokia released some other mobile handsets known as the Nokia 920 and 925. Both these handsets also have the nomenclature "pureview", but I like to call pureview 2. In this case though, there is no ultra high resolution or large sensor, but rather these handsets sport optical stabilization in a tiny BSI sensor. The pureview here is to achieve ultra low light shots, handheld, while maintaining a descently low ISO to maintain quality.

Finally Nokia 1020, combines both generation of pureview 1 (large sensor high resolution with pureview processing) and pureview 2 (optical stabilization and BSI sensor technology) to supposibly make the ultimate pureview camera. This does not come with compromise. The addition of optical stabilization plus the market demand for a thinner overall dimension of phone meant the sensor in the 1020, although larger than all competing brands of mobile phone cameras, had to be smaller than the Nokia 808/ Hence why we have discussion on quality between 808 and 1020, since the sensor and optics are not exactly the same.

Now to file size. The 808 with built in camera app and set compression to superfine (95% compression quality) give around 3-4mb JPG files in 8MP pureview mode, and around 10Mb per file if set to full resolution 38MP. There is a 3rd party software like 645pro for iPhone but for the 808 called "camera pro". This camera app has far more control over the 808, one example is the different metering modes available eg spot, evaluative etc, but also lets you lock the focus as long as you do not quit the camera app. The most important feature of the camera pro app is it's ability to set 100% JPG compression. This results in 30-40Mb sized JPGs. It is crazy, but some 808 owners swear by it.

Hope this clears some of the misconceptions you may have had over the whole Nokia and pureview, and now you know, not every Nokia "pureview" phone will capture images like the Nokia 808, as the tech used can be completely different.

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

Thanks Ling. very informative and illustrative of the fact that its always the shooter, not the camera, especially with cellphones. Your fantastic images are the result of a personal process, not anything the Nokia does other than produce a largish, flat file. I suppose I could do that with 645Pro on my iPhone but I have set myself a project to shoot and edit only on my iPhone/iPad combo for all my cellphone work for a year. Its both challenging and liberating to be free of a computer. After editing I upload to the cloud for access later on.

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bigley Ling
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

Thanks Ling. very informative and illustrative of the fact that its always the shooter, not the camera, especially with cellphones. Your fantastic images are the result of a personal process, not anything the Nokia does other than produce a largish, flat file. I suppose I could do that with 645Pro on my iPhone but I have set myself a project to shoot and edit only on my iPhone/iPad combo for all my cellphone work for a year. Its both challenging and liberating to be free of a computer. After editing I upload to the cloud for access later on.

I guess that is true, and I cannot comment on setting the Nokia up to do more vibrant, sharper and more saturated images, as I like the idea of a digital negative, just in case the image processed on the fly is not to ones personal taste. Ideally Nokia should have allowed the app to capture one "Nokia" designed color curve and sharpness files and one "flat" unprocessed image. So if the Nokia produced file is not to personal preference, then one can immediately grab the unprocessed file, and process to ones liking.

I know that processing each image individually can be laborious and time consuming, and the only solution really is to captures less frames, and hence less to process. There is no doubt that having an out of camera perfect image is desirable, but this is usually never the case, and there is usually compromise. eg in the SG4 we can clearly see higher than usual noise reduction, and excessive edge sharpening. The ultimate result from the SG4 is a mega 13MP instasgram image. The idea and concept of the Nokia was to achieve a convergence device of a phone and a camera in one whist the resultant image that can be archived, enlarged and printed. I know phone cameras are not widely known for this. I still believe the best implementation of JPG on a digicam is indeed the Fuji X100, X1pro, etc. I absolutely love the in camera film profiles available, which give a very desirable result, plus the ability to choose which film to suit difference scenes, all while keeping n archival RAW file, and not requiring the use of a PC whatsoever.

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Stevan G
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

Thanks Ling. very informative and illustrative of the fact that its always the shooter, not the camera, especially with cellphones.

well unless you put yourself in some stealth mode you couldn't get these pictures with an iphone, for a simple fact that these animals would run away if you came closer which you would have to do since you don't have lossless zoom on that poor toy Got that now?

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Menneisyys
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

They aren't really lossless either - see earlier discussions. (That is, it's not true RAW - NR, WB settings etc. have already been applied.)

bigley Ling wrote:

The beauty of the Nokia 808 images, even though it does not save lossless TIF file like 645Pro on the iPhone

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

A part of it for me is habit. I was an event photographer for many years. Most times there was no time to edit hundreds of raw images after the fact and so I became accustomed to trying to get it right in the camera. Wasn't especially hard as I am older and grew up with film. You either nailed it in camera or you didn't. then there was the amazing Fuji S2, S3 and S5 DSLRs. almost perfect jpeg out of camera if you shot it right.

thanks for the chat.

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

Got it and forgot it already. Personally I'd never attempt such shots with a phone. I'm from the camp that uses the right tool for the job. Ling's shots are extraordinary for a phone but otherwise quite ordinary for a better camera. Got that?

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Menneisyys, 8 months ago

I know. Thanks. It's a phone.

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

I wasn't talking about vivid settings. I was speaking about rich but believable color OOC. The Samsung is way better than Nokia In that respect.

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Hulamike
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Sorry
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

That came off way too nasty. I apologize.

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Stevan G
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

I wasn't talking about vivid settings. I was speaking about rich but believable color OOC. The Samsung is way better than Nokia In that respect.

what? There is nothing believable in samsung/iphone/lumia colors...they are way off. I understand some like it that way, but it's only because they already got used to them.

I don't like gray buildings coming out brown on my pictures, the good camera is the one that will show you how the scene looks with your own eyes.

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Stevan G
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

Hulamike wrote:

Got it and forgot it already. Personally I'd never attempt such shots with a phone. I'm from the camp that uses the right tool for the job. Ling's shots are extraordinary for a phone but otherwise quite ordinary for a better camera. Got that?

what if there is sudden opportunity for "job" and you don't have the right tool with you?

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

You always get the shot. Doesn't mean it will be a good shot. Something is better than nothing. What's your point?

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Hulamike
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

Exactly. That's also  why there were so many different films developed. Which one was "accurate"? Depended on the individual didn't it?

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bigley Ling
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Re: Nokia lumia 1020 review
In reply to Hulamike, 8 months ago

think Stefan G means that some cameras, be it in phone, or be it in a dedicated digicam will give a more "true to life" result than others. In this case, the Nokia 808 achieves closer to this than the SGS4, but, the SGS4 is more pleasing to the eye OOC, and can make boring photos interesting.

This happens in larger cameras too. Some Canon users prefer the way Canon renders it's images over Nikon, and yet, Nikon users will swear that Nikon is better than Canon.

I have access to the SGS4, so I will have to have a portrait test to see if the 808 is indeed better or worst than the SGS4 for skin tonality for instance.

Hulamike, I hope you get a chance to have a play with the Nokia 808. You may have different thoughts if you have a try. I know you should definitely not get one as it will not for-fill your needs for OOC ready image, but the camera interface, etc on the 808 is surprisingly good (live histogram), and allows for a great deal of control of camera settings. Also call me old fashioned, I just enjoy hearing the gentle click of a real physical shutter. The SGS4, may be considered more high tech here and has electronic shutter. Possibly in the future, maybe all cameras will be like this and the maturity of the global shutter.

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