Want to buy a phone for camera..

Started 8 months ago | Questions
Jeff Peterman
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Re: iPhone and file formats
In reply to Alupang, 8 months ago

Alupang wrote:

With the Nok 808, it automatically "saves as" upon every edit so your original full res JPG is perserved. So no need for TIFF, even when doing multiple edits in-cam.

But that doesn't help! If you save the original JPG (call it File 1), then later open it, edit it and save it (File 2), that second file will have worse JPG artifacts than the first. If you then open the second file, make additional edits and save it (File 3) the JPG artifacts can be a real problem - especially if the software doesn't give you any control over the compression settings. If you save the second, and subsequent, files as a TIF file (or some other loss less format), the JPG artifacts never get worse than those in the original image.

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Jeff Peterman
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Re: iPhone and file formats
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

That's why the only time I edit on the phone is if I want to do a quick correction before I post an image on Facebook. Otherwise, I wait until I can pull the original into my PC and go from there.

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Alupang
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Re: iPhone and file formats
In reply to Jeff Peterman, 8 months ago

Jeff Peterman wrote:

Alupang wrote:

With the Nok 808, it automatically "saves as" upon every edit so your original full res JPG is perserved. So no need for TIFF, even when doing multiple edits in-cam.

But that doesn't help! If you save the original JPG (call it File 1), then later open it, edit it and save it (File 2), that second file will have worse JPG artifacts than the first. If you then open the second file, make additional edits and save it (File 3) the JPG artifacts can be a real problem - especially if the software doesn't give you any control over the compression settings. If you save the second, and subsequent, files as a TIF file (or some other loss less format), the JPG artifacts never get worse than those in the original image.

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Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
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I dont save file 1, the camera does when i press shutter. So does iphone or any other cam without raw capability. So tiff just preserves that JPG.

Any further PP eventually requires one more save into JPG for final product. Unless of course you wish to share tiffs...not practicable.

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Alupang
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Re: iPhone and file formats
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

Agree TIFF is preferable for rediting an image without lossy compression each time. B aware though the majority of iPhone photo editing apps will not necessarily have TIFF abiltiy to load or save. Basically once 645 pro creates the TIFF, it is prob best left for PC or MAC post processing

But 645 creates the tiff from the original iphone jpg so why bother? Unless you plan to PP, save and share tiffs ONLY there is no advantage.

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Si14
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to Alupang, 8 months ago

I checked some video samples and it shows the advantage of the Nokia ones over Galaxy S3 or iPhone 5.

Here is a comparison of Nokia Lumia 920 (which is even older than 808/1020) vs iPhone 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXp1EtpxcJ4

This one compares the above Nokia one with Galaxy S3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5doZi30l6Zk

The difference and image quality is significantly higher in the Nokia one. I assume Nokie 808 and 1020 are even higher than the Nokia 920 which is shown above.

I have two question from the people having 808 or 1020:

1- How is the battery life? If you capture video and shoot image, how the battery consumption changes?

2- Does Nokia 808 have optical image stabilization similar to 920 and 1020?

3- Is Nokia 808 or 1020 capable of:

-creating HDR (without post processing)?

-panorama

-time lapse?

HDR time lapse? (Something similar to the following):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susojbZ2xso

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bigley Ling
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to Si14, 8 months ago

Si14 wrote:

I checked some video samples and it shows the advantage of the Nokia ones over Galaxy S3 or iPhone 5.

Here is a comparison of Nokia Lumia 920 (which is even older than 808/1020) vs iPhone 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXp1EtpxcJ4

This one compares the above Nokia one with Galaxy S3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5doZi30l6Zk

The difference and image quality is significantly higher in the Nokia one. I assume Nokie 808 and 1020 are even higher than the Nokia 920 which is shown above.

I have two question from the people having 808 or 1020:

1- How is the battery life? If you capture video and shoot image, how the battery consumption changes?

2- Does Nokia 808 have optical image stabilization similar to 920 and 1020?

3- Is Nokia 808 or 1020 capable of:

-creating HDR (without post processing)?

-panorama

-time lapse?

HDR time lapse? (Something similar to the following):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susojbZ2xso

808 battery life is very good, alot better than alot of newer smart phones. Recording video I usually get just over 1 hour before I get the low battery symbol. Shooting images seems much more economical on the power, but using the xenon flash will deplete the battery quicker.

The 808 has no optical stabilization and depends on software stabilization for make videos smooth. Digital stabilization is not only less effective compared to optical stabilization but also the quality is compromised slightly whne it is enabled.

The 808 is capable of creating HDR like images from a single exposure but it requires post processing, you can -1EV an image capture, then recover shadow detail with programs like PhotoFX or Photproc which are 3rd party apps available for the Nokia 808. SO no the 808 cannot do HDR realtime.

Yes the 808 can do panoramas, but depending on the scene, results are not always perfect.

The nokia 808 built in app has an excellent time lapse feature, which most will be extremely satisfied with.

No there is no HDR time lapse for the 808

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bigley Ling
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Re: iPhone and file formats
In reply to Alupang, 8 months ago

agree, was just stating the facts. And I believe the TIFF from 645 pro may noy be as mailable as the JPG from the Nokia 808 capturing in Pureview 8mp and no pureview zoom used.

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wll
wll
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to Si14, 8 months ago

Si14 wrote:

Based on the following photo comparison, you can see here that the difference is not that much significant. If you have a photo comparison that shows the difference in action, that would be interesting to see.

Got to tell you, your wrong .... the image quality of the Nokia 1020 is off the charts, it is greatly better than the S4 or iPhone !

wll

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wll
wll
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Re: Want to buy a phone for camera..
In reply to seeblue, 8 months ago

seeblue wrote:

Which comes first for you, the smartphone or the camera? If it's the smartphone, you need to figure out which ecosystem and operating system you prefer. You'll figure that out by spending a FEW HOURS off and on in the store playing with the phones.

Then to get the best camera for the ecosystem and operating system you prefer, you'll need to buy a near or top-of-the-line model.

I prefer iOS and an iPhone. As far as the camera (I've got a 4S), it's quite controlled and competent. Out of the box, images are conservatively sharpened, colors are moderate and accurate, noise is moderate in good light. In regular use, it's predictable and repeatable. I get consistent results. In that sense, you get a feel for it's strengths and weaknesses and compensate accordingly. Images look similar on my phone and desktop monitor. Images need little to no "work" unless you want to.

As noted earlier above, the photography software catalog in the App Store is endless.

No cameraphones is a substitute for a real camera, IMO. If the camera is first, buy a real camera. Smartphone cameras fill a niche by their convenience/immediacy, portability, and ease of use (up/downloading/posting/processing).

I too have a 4s and it does a good job on the photographic side (although not as good as the iPhone 5 and not even close to the 808 or 1020).

I have the iPhone because of its stability and great apps as my phone is my business tool.

On the other hand, the 1020 camera is fantastic and the windows platform is getting more mature and feature rich as time goes on. My contract is over in a year and at that time i will decide on what to do, I'm sure the 1020 will have an upgrade as will the iPhone, so we are in for some exciting times photographically speaking !

wll

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Stevan G
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

Si14 wrote:

I checked some video samples and it shows the advantage of the Nokia ones over Galaxy S3 or iPhone 5.

Here is a comparison of Nokia Lumia 920 (which is even older than 808/1020) vs iPhone 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXp1EtpxcJ4

This one compares the above Nokia one with Galaxy S3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5doZi30l6Zk

The difference and image quality is significantly higher in the Nokia one. I assume Nokie 808 and 1020 are even higher than the Nokia 920 which is shown above.

I have two question from the people having 808 or 1020:

1- How is the battery life? If you capture video and shoot image, how the battery consumption changes?

2- Does Nokia 808 have optical image stabilization similar to 920 and 1020?

3- Is Nokia 808 or 1020 capable of:

-creating HDR (without post processing)?

-panorama

-time lapse?

HDR time lapse? (Something similar to the following):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susojbZ2xso

808 battery life is very good, alot better than alot of newer smart phones. Recording video I usually get just over 1 hour before I get the low battery symbol. Shooting images seems much more economical on the power, but using the xenon flash will deplete the battery quicker.

The 808 has no optical stabilization and depends on software stabilization for make videos smooth. Digital stabilization is not only less effective compared to optical stabilization but also the quality is compromised slightly whne it is enabled.

The 808 is capable of creating HDR like images from a single exposure but it requires post processing, you can -1EV an image capture, then recover shadow detail with programs like PhotoFX or Photproc which are 3rd party apps available for the Nokia 808. SO no the 808 cannot do HDR realtime.

Yes the 808 can do panoramas, but depending on the scene, results are not always perfect.

The nokia 808 built in app has an excellent time lapse feature, which most will be extremely satisfied with.

No there is no HDR time lapse for the 808

there is a HDR app for 808...

http://asf-mobiles.net/hdrapp-the-application-for-hdr-available-for-nokia-808-pureview-beta/

also you can stabilise 808 video in postprocessing

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bigley Ling
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

StevenG I know of this app, and actually have it installed. It works real good, but you must capture 3 bracketed exposures and then "post process" to get a resultant HDR. Because of the Post processing, it is considered at not real time like what the iphone can do.

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Stevan G
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

StevenG I know of this app, and actually have it installed. It works real good, but you must capture 3 bracketed exposures and then "post process" to get a resultant HDR. Because of the Post processing, it is considered at not real time like what the iphone can do.

ah OK

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Menneisyys
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

StevenG I know of this app, and actually have it installed. It works real good, but you must capture 3 bracketed exposures and then "post process" to get a resultant HDR. Because of the Post processing, it is considered at not real time like what the iphone can do.

Well, actually, the "realtime" HDR of the iPhone isn't true HDR. It's only capable of extending the DR with about 1 EV but no more, while with the traditional two bracketed shot approach you can easily achieve even more than 8 EV's.

I've published several shots proving this - see for example the HDR images in section " 2.1 The stock Camera client" linked from my latest iOS bracketing / exp. comp. article at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1621351 (and will also thoroughly elaborate on it in my future HDR bible.)

An example:

HDR from two shots with 8 EV difference, in-camera stitching via Top Camera:

(full version: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9365924661/in/set-72157634791582799 )

When exposed for the darkest area, the HDR of iOS produces much worse results:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9365925353/in/set-72157634791582799

and, when metering the brightest area, the results are also very bad:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9365924279/in/set-72157634791582799

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Menneisyys
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Re: Wait for LG G2?
In reply to Menneisyys, 8 months ago

New G2 test images, directly comparing it to the iPhone 5, Galaxy S4, One and Lumia 1020, are at

http://www.phonearena.com/news/First-camera-samples-from-the-LG-G2---compared-to-the-iPhone-5-Galaxy-S4-One-and-Lumia-1020_id46175#5-Nokia-Lumia-1020

All I can say is wow! While it definitely has lower DR than the Lumia, it's pretty much on par with it in most shots and is MUCH better than the iPhone 5 / HTC One and definitely better than the S4!

Hope Europe gets the G2 soon - I really want it!

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bigley Ling
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to Menneisyys, 8 months ago

if the iPhone HDR is from a single image, how come with faster moving subjects captured with HDR on, the image has ghosting where the subject was moving? I think it does take a multi exposure shot, but the processing has to be quick, so it does not necessarily do a full hdr, plus iPhone HDR is just for visual improvement of dynamic range, and not to make the image look unrealistic and surreal.

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Menneisyys
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Re: (Galaxy S4/iPhone 5) vs (Nokia 808, 1020)
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

if the iPhone HDR is from a single image, how come with faster moving subjects captured with HDR on, the image has ghosting where the subject was moving? I think it does take a multi exposure shot, but the processing has to be quick, so it does not necessarily do a full hdr, plus iPhone HDR is just for visual improvement of dynamic range, and not to make the image look unrealistic and surreal.

Basically, the stock Camera app - unlike with third-party ones - has access to the hardware. This is why it can sample the sensor twice in a row, with minimal time difference, all during the same exposure (during while the shutter is open).

Sampling twice during while the shutter is open also means the sensor can't be exposed with different shutter speeds; this is why the additional dynamic range is around 1 EV only, unlike with traditional (and very slow - shutter speed + ISO changing + opening/closing the shutter again generally takes a second; this is why the built-in HDR mode doesn't use this approach) approach.

BTW, I've made some shots where the HDR version of an image had more unrealistic colors (because of the different clipping of the separate RGB channels) than the non-HDR version. Of course, this has to do with clipping and not with the "plastic" colors of traditional large-EV  HDR methods.

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Menneisyys
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Re: Wait for LG G2?
In reply to Menneisyys, 8 months ago

A (hopefully) genuine LG G2 video, demonstrating OIS, gain control and audio. The latter is stereo!!! At last a decent non-Symbian / WP smartphone with stereo video recording!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h80nt8XGWE&feature=player_embedded

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bigley Ling
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Re: Wait for LG G2?
In reply to Menneisyys, 8 months ago

Menneisyys wrote:

A (hopefully) genuine LG G2 video, demonstrating OIS, gain control and audio. The latter is stereo!!! At last a decent non-Symbian / WP smartphone with stereo video recording!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h80nt8XGWE&feature=player_embedded

Now the question is does it have the same HAAC mics the Nokia uses on their phones?? These mics not only record stereo, but they seem to have impressive dynamic range recording capabilities, as well as being able to handle very high volume concerts without distortion or clipping

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Stevan G
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Re: Wait for LG G2?
In reply to bigley Ling, 8 months ago

HAAC is Nokia exclusive so I guess not

btw finally a decent Android camera

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bigley Ling
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Re: Wait for LG G2?
In reply to Stevan G, 8 months ago

Stevan G wrote:

HAAC is Nokia exclusive so I guess not

btw finally a decent Android camera

Does the HTC One not record in stereo for video, and image stabilized?

Also I heard that the HTC one does have HAAC mics, just not the same ones as Nokia, as they had to recall that

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