First XF1 photos

Started Aug 2, 2013 | Photos
jimr
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Re: A bakers dozen of new XF1 photos
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 6, 2013

Great posting and beautiful  samples Wellington. Thank you for sharing!

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prime
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Re: A bakers dozen of new XF1 photos
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 7, 2013

Wellington100 wrote:

I intended to shoot with both Dave and Kim's settings so I attempted to set these to C1 and C2, I don't if these are the equivalent of P mode. I ended up confusing the heck out myself with all the settings because some settings changed universally whilst others did not.

The manual is not as clear as it should be.  To freeze settings on C1, you do not set the dial to C1 than make the settings.  You make the settings that you would make in the "other" mode, say [P]rogram, then, when you have them as you like, while still in that (P) mode, you enter the menu system, Shooting Menu, "page" 4, Custom Set, and select C1, then confirm.

All in all the images are a big step up from my F300 I would say.

Whatever, they all are excellent.  You've been launched in the XF1.

Beautiful animals and they all belong to the Queen apparently

Not the one at the lower right corner; he (or she) is fair game.

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Wellington100
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to jimr, Aug 7, 2013

jimr wrote:

Hi Wellington. Enjoy your new camera. May I ask how your new settings are working out?

Have great day!

Jim

The ongoing debate of M vs. L size is fascinating. I would love to know the answer ......

Hi jmr,

I had my first outing with the camera on Sunday and I tried swapping between Dave and Kims settings using P Mode and C1 and C2 but I think I basically botched it plus when I uploaded all the images, I could not remember what was what

At the end of the day, my take on the camera is that the settings do not matter quite as much they  used to with smaller sensors on the F and HS cameras because this sensor is throwing off more IQ overall. For me that extra IQ is like having a buffer that can be tapped into in PP so what I will do is experiment more with the various settings and try to work out how to use the settings more creatively to achieve some interesting effects.

I really do like this camera a lot. I think that for F31 and F200 users, this is the next logical step, especially at the current discounted prices.

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jimr
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 7, 2013

Thank you Wellington. Enjoy!

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Tim39
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Re: A bakers dozen of new XF1 photos
In reply to prime, Aug 7, 2013

prime wrote:

The manual is not as clear as it should be. To freeze settings on C1, you do not set the dial to C1 than make the settings. You make the settings that you would make in the "other" mode, say [P]rogram, then, when you have them as you like, while still in that (P) mode, you enter the menu system, Shooting Menu, "page" 4, Custom Set, and select C1, then confirm.

Whatever, they all are excellent. You've been launched in the XF1.

Those images are indeed excellent. Agree about the settings; seems as if Fuji is constitutionally unable to release a camera to retail that doesn't have at least one annoying -- and easily fixed -- flaw. It took me forever to figure out the Custom settings procedure on the HS20 (which, mercifully, I no longer have )

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Tim

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Wellington100
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Re: A bakers dozen of new XF1 photos
In reply to prime, Aug 7, 2013

prime wrote:

Wellington100 wrote:

I intended to shoot with both Dave and Kim's settings so I attempted to set these to C1 and C2, I don't if these are the equivalent of P mode. I ended up confusing the heck out myself with all the settings because some settings changed universally whilst others did not.

The manual is not as clear as it should be. To freeze settings on C1, you do not set the dial to C1 than make the settings. You make the settings that you would make in the "other" mode, say [P]rogram, then, when you have them as you like, while still in that (P) mode, you enter the menu system, Shooting Menu, "page" 4, Custom Set, and select C1, then confirm.

Thanks for the heads up about how to set the C1 and C2, I just winged it and never used the manual to figure this out. I am going to properly set up Dave and Kims settings and have a go with both again as soon as I get a chance. I also got a tad confused over the RAW plus jpeg which i have never had on a camera before and I was not sure what was going on when I imported the files but I think its all straight in my old head now.

All in all the images are a big step up from my F300 I would say.

Whatever, they all are excellent. You've been launched in the XF1.

Thanks. Its a fun camera and critically it passes the pocket test. I could walk around with it all day every day like I have been doing with my F300. For me that is a huge benefit.

Almost certainly my next Fuji will be the F900 to replace the F300, but it can wait a while longer for the inevitable price crash. The F900 prices are holding up well for longer than any F camera has for quite a while.

Not the one at the lower right corner; he (or she) is fair game.

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Wellington100
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Some shots taken with different settings
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 8, 2013

Now that I know how to set the memory modes, I set Dave's settings to C2 and left Kim's settings in P mode which is my default

I looked for contrasty conditions to give the DR a workout hence the sun and shadow in each image. I lifted the shadows in PP a bit too much to try to see what happened with noise

All in all Daves setting is slightly warmer with some colours, that would be the Astia setting

Personally I find that both settings do the job for me. I know I am not a discerning critic of images. I know what my final output size is and I know that both settings deliver for me.

I am reproducing the jpegs from Daves settings. The RAW is a whole other story and needs more work than I can do with iPhoto, my default crappy PP software. I am not a RAW person, for my needs its just a pain.

I question whether its necessary to set -1/3 RV with this camera for jpegs. With both settings my histograms were pushed to the left on all of the images and I tweaked them to brighten them back up. I think that this camera may be able to be safely shot at 0EV in bright contrasty light but perhaps I need some brighter light than the UK has available to really know for sure.

However if you shoot RAW you definitely need to use the - EV because the DR benefits are gone. Dave minimises the difference between the jpeg and the RAW exposure by using DR200. In my case its easy, I would expose for the jpeg.

The first image in the pair is Kim's setting and the second is Dave's setting.

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CAcreeks
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Kim vs Dave settings
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 8, 2013

Dynamic range is surprisingly good with Dave's settings, but what I notice primarily is that small lettering on signs is easier to read with Kim's settings. This could be entirely the result of too much downsampling from L versus less with M size.

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Danielepaolo
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Re: Kim vs Dave settings
In reply to CAcreeks, Aug 8, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

Dynamic range is surprisingly good with Dave's settings, but what I notice primarily is that small lettering on signs is easier to read with Kim's settings.

That is the first thing I noticed. 2nd things was the "punchier colors".

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CAcreeks
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Re: Kim vs Dave settings
In reply to Danielepaolo, Aug 8, 2013

Danielepaolo wrote:

what I notice primarily is that small lettering on signs is easier to read with Kim's settings.

That is the first thing I noticed. 2nd things was the "punchier colors".

Punchier with Provia than with Astia? I don't see a lot of punch difference, but the Astia is warmer with less shadow detail.

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Lloydy
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Wellington ...
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 8, 2013

... Good to see someone do some comparison images between the two settings.

I know which I prefer, but then I am biased

However, I still reiterate the point that no 'one size suits all' and it is best to experiment to obtain the settings which suit your style. For me, and for the XF1, it is :

Program (P) mode, large (L) size, 4:3, Fine, Raw+Jpeg, DR 200%, ISO 800 (Auto), Astia, Highlight Tone - Medium Soft, Shadow Tone - Medium Soft, Noise Reduction - Medium Low, minus 0.33 EV, Photometry - Average, AF Tracking.

The key points in the above are L size, DR 200% and AF Tracking. These alone make a huge difference to the image output in terms of image detail, highlight preservation, shadow preservation and focus speed. The others simply equate (mostly) to the desired colour output.

For my other Fuji's, the key elements of L size, DR 200% and AF Tracking are all still the 'must have' priorities but items such as FS setting, NR setting, sharpness, etc., etc., are all simply pertinent to the particular camera.

It is silly to assume that all EXR sensor/processor cameras are the same, as they are not. Whether it be my F200 EXR, HS30 EXR, HS50 EXR, X-E1 (EXR) or the XF1 (EXR), they all require slightly different permutations of the above to produce the best images.

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Cheers, Dave

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davidge
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to Lloydy, Aug 8, 2013

My vote goes for the L size ones - but then I too am biased as these reflect what I am seeing with my X10. Viewing the L and M size ones side by side on my monitor, the former to me appear punchier and have crisper detail (but I agree less shadow detail - an effect of Astia) compared to the M size which (to my eyes) are flatter and slightly noisier. However the M size ones do render the white walls better - I guess because of the greater DR?

Swings and roundabouts...

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Wellington100
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Re: Kim vs Dave settings
In reply to CAcreeks, Aug 8, 2013

CAcreeks wrote:

Danielepaolo wrote:

what I notice primarily is that small lettering on signs is easier to read with Kim's settings.

That is the first thing I noticed. 2nd things was the "punchier colors".

Punchier with Provia than with Astia? I don't see a lot of punch difference, but the Astia is warmer with less shadow detail.

The shadow detail could be my imperfect PP lifting the shadows by eye to see what was in there

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Wellington100
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to Lloydy, Aug 8, 2013

Lloydy wrote:

... Good to see someone do some comparison images between the two settings.

I have never had the C setting before and its so easy to set both your and Kim's settings permanently now as baselines, that its crazy not to.

I know which I prefer, but then I am biased

I am probably not going to get into the middle of this, you and Kim are the Joe Frazier and Mohammed Ali of Fuji compact camera settings, heh heh heh.

However, I still reiterate the point that no 'one size suits all' and it is best to experiment to obtain the settings which suit your style. For me, and for the XF1, it is :

Program (P) mode, large (L) size, 4:3, Fine, Raw+Jpeg, DR 200%, ISO 800 (Auto), Astia, Highlight Tone - Medium Soft, Shadow Tone - Medium Soft, Noise Reduction - Medium Low, minus 0.33 EV, Photometry - Average, AF Tracking.

The key points in the above are L size, DR 200% and AF Tracking. These alone make a huge difference to the image output in terms of image detail, highlight preservation, shadow preservation and focus speed. The others simply equate (mostly) to the desired colour output.

I see.

For my other Fuji's, the key elements of L size, DR 200% and AF Tracking are all still the 'must have' priorities but items such as FS setting, NR setting, sharpness, etc., etc., are all simply pertinent to the particular camera.

It is silly to assume that all EXR sensor/processor cameras are the same, as they are not. Whether it be my F200 EXR, HS30 EXR, HS50 EXR, X-E1 (EXR) or the XF1 (EXR), they all require slightly different permutations of the above to produce the best images.

That makes sense, especially now that the cameras are so much more feature rich than they used to be in terms of settings options. There is probably three times as much that can be set to tweak the jpegs on this camera than on my F300

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Cheers, Dave

When you process your images, do you process the RAW or the jpeg? I am assuming it is the jpeg, otherwise why use all those settings in the 1st place. This being the case, why do you shoot a RAW file as well?

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Wellington100
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to davidge, Aug 8, 2013

davidge wrote:

My vote goes for the L size ones - but then I too am biased as these reflect what I am seeing with my X10. Viewing the L and M size ones side by side on my monitor, the former to me appear punchier and have crisper detail (but I agree less shadow detail - an effect of Astia) compared to the M size which (to my eyes) are flatter and slightly noisier. However the M size ones do render the white walls better - I guess because of the greater DR?

Swings and roundabouts...

There was a touch of underexposing on my images I noticed. Please don't treat these posted images as factually accurate for comparison purposes, I have never tried the direct comparison game before and I don't know the rules, I tweaked them by eye in a very imprecise PP tool.

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homepics
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to Lloydy, Aug 8, 2013

Lloydy wrote:

Program (P) mode, large (L) size, 4:3, Fine, Raw+Jpeg, DR 200%, ISO 800 (Auto), Astia, Highlight Tone - Medium Soft, Shadow Tone - Medium Soft, Noise Reduction - Medium Low, minus 0.33 EV, Photometry - Average, AF Tracking.

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Cheers, Dave

Dave,

Thanks for all of your help with the camera. We who are learning appreciate it. There seems to be two similar threads going on about the XF1. For your settings, what is the preferred "processing" method. By that I mean in-camera JPEG, in-camera RAW processed to JPEG, or raw with an external converter (Silkypix - the free version, another processor)?  I believe I read that to get the benefit of L, raw should be used.   Thanks, David

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CAcreeks
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Re: Kim vs Dave settings
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 8, 2013

Wellington100 wrote:

I don't see a lot of punch difference, but the Astia is warmer with less shadow detail.

The shadow detail could be my imperfect PP lifting the shadows by eye to see what was in there

No, unlike the respective slide films, Astia has higher shadow contrast than Provia (standard) mode.

This turns out to be useful because Astia can be used on cloudy days to warm up scenery and increase contrast on dull days.

For this reason, unless you have controlled lighting, Astia might be bad for portraits - certainly not as good as the slide film was.

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prime
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Re: Wellington ...
In reply to Wellington100, Aug 9, 2013

Wellington100 wrote:

There was a touch of underexposing on my images I noticed. Please don't treat these posted images as factually accurate for comparison purposes, I have never tried the direct comparison game before and I don't know the rules, I tweaked them by eye in a very imprecise PP tool.

Pardon my jumping into your thread.

I, too, have been playing around with the XF1, as you know, trying to learn its quirks and foibles, still at it, about 14 weeks after acquiring it.  Here is an untweaked comparison of, essentially, Kim and Dave settings of a quiet evening on our back porch earlier this week, with the chicken legs on the Weber, and nothing to do but wait.  Like you, I have the P mode set pretty close to Kim standards:  M size, ISO Auto400, DR400, Auto White Balance, Provia.  Here is the shot straight out of the camera; in order to avoid its being "touched" by Aperture, the image, shot in portrait orientation, is unrotated:

Unretouched OOC Jpeg from XF1

The C1 mode follows Dave's settings pretty closely, but I do not use the -1/3 EV or the tracking focus; but I did shoot it in RAW+JPEG, Aperture priority, L size, ISO200, DR200, Auto White Balance, Astia.  The JPEG half looked like this, straight OOC:

Unretouched JPEG from RAW+JPEG pair, XF1.

Finally, I took the RAW half of the above pair, and processed it in Silkypix EX.  I had to make choices in order to process in Silkypix EX, and I did not have either of the JPEGs above on-screen for comparison; I chose the Silkypix EX parameters down the line, top to bottom, to seek the most "natural" image (e.g., no V2 color selection here!), which impelled me to make -2/3 EV exposure compensation for the reflection off the vinyl table cover in the right foreground.  Silkypix EX auto-rotated the picture for me, so it is in the portrait orientation in which I composed it.  It came out like this:

Silkypix EX JPEG from "naturally" processed RAW of the same shutter press as the second of the two shots above.

Make of these what you will.

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jimr
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Does Anyone Know The Flash Sych Speed In The P Mode?
In reply to prime, Aug 9, 2013

I have been getting some ambient light blur with indoor flash exposures of a moving baby....

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CAcreeks
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Re: Great comparison M vs L
In reply to prime, Aug 9, 2013

I think the M size (KimL) is far nicer than the L size (Dave). It could be entirely a matter of exposure. Weird, but the L size is overexposed by more than 1 EV (6.6 vs 7.8). Don't know how that happened. Also don't know why ISO 400 was selected for M size (bit of noise at pixel level). I feel your Silkypix raw conversion comes in a close second to the M size DR 400. Thanks for posting!

prime wrote:

Unretouched OOC Jpeg from XF1 (KimL)

Unretouched JPEG from RAW+JPEG pair, Dave

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